Jodami Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said: The guy that the fans look to to get a goal from nothing, the figurehead of the team, the guy that can make something happen from nothing. He only really made that happen against Celtic Enzo, we were poor that season he was with us and there were plenty of games when he was anonymous against bottom 6 teams. If he was as good as some people imply then he would be making hay against the Hamiltons and the like but he hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, mscjambo said: Lafferty was a match winner. Big game player. But I wonder what the likes of Naisy, Berra etc...make of him as senior pros. Lots of good players who are a bit out there need managing and Lafferty falls into that category. The question is really do the management and club want all the baggage he comes with. He actively wanted out of the club when Rangers came calling, Walker essentially did the same. One is vilified,the other is actively wanted back. As I said in another thread, fully fit both would improve us from a footballing perspective It was two different things. Lafferty was a Glasgow Rangers fan initially then wanted to return when new Rangers 2012 asked aboput him. I'm sure there was a clause in his contract that stated that if another club comes in for him then Hearts would honour the contract. It just so happens it was them and no-one else, probably the only Scots club he would've signed for. I reckon he'd have stayed at Hearts if it wasn't them that came in for him, he said himself he'd be happy to finish his career with us. Plus, he made us a few quid so win-win. Walker's situation was completely different. He was a Hearts "fan" and lost interest when we said no. No problem in him moving on for better wages. There was no need for him to carry on the way he did once he knew he wasn't getting a move. Maybe wanted to be beside another one that downed tools when he knew Rangers2012 wanted him....Jason Holt. Had Walker put all that stuff aside, went on to do great things with us like Paul Hartley did when he was refused a move to Celtic then he may well have been the player we know he could've been instead of one coming back with his tail between his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jodami said: He only really made that happen against Celtic Enzo, we were poor that season he was with us and there were plenty of games when he was anonymous against bottom 6 teams. If he was as good as some people imply then he would be making hay against the Hamiltons and the like but he hasn't. To be fair, Jodami, a lot of the time, away from home, he was left isolated up front with a huge gap back to our nearest supporting midfielder. I agree, though, he did reserve his best performances for bigger games. We were poor while he was there but equally poor after he left imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscjambo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, jambonian said: It was two different things. Lafferty was a Glasgow Rangers fan initially then wanted to return when new Rangers 2012 asked aboput him. I'm sure there was a clause in his contract that stated that if another club comes in for him then Hearts would honour the contract. It just so happens it was them and no-one else, probably the only Scots club he would've signed for. I reckon he'd have stayed at Hearts if it wasn't them that came in for him, he said himself he'd be happy to finish his career with us. Plus, he made us a few quid so win-win. Walker's situation was completely different. He was a Hearts "fan" and lost interest when we said no. No problem in him moving on for better wages. There was no need for him to carry on the way he did once he knew he wasn't getting a move. Maybe wanted to be beside another one that downed tools when he knew Rangers2012 wanted him....Jason Holt. Had Walker put all that stuff aside, went on to do great things with us like Paul Hartley did when he was refused a move to Celtic then he may well have been the player we know he could've been instead of one coming back with his tail between his legs. I see what you are saying. But both never showed the club much loyalty. Lafferty thanked Hearts for helping his career, supporting him through his issues yet ran when Rangers came calling. They have now more or less dumped him and shown him no loyalty. As I said before both would improve us if fit and committed. But both actively wanted out the club when the club had been good to both of them Modern day football. If both came back and scored all soon gets forgiven and forgotten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, mscjambo said: I see what you are saying. But both never showed the club much loyalty. Lafferty thanked Hearts for helping his career, supporting him through his issues yet ran when Rangers came calling. They have now more or less dumped him and shown him no loyalty. As I said before both would improve us if fit and committed. But both actively wanted out the club when the club had been good to both of them Modern day football. If both came back and scored all soon gets forgiven and forgotten... With Lafferty's contract stating that if someone else came in for him with a better offer, he could leave. He had no connection to Hearts before he turned up and the reason we got him in the first place was because of that deal. He did a turn, scored 19 goals and we got money for him, I don't have an issue with that and as I said, had it not been Rangers 2012 that had came in he would likely have stayed on. Walker was a supposed Hearts fan, came through the youth ranks and couldn't be arsed in his last few months. The petted-lip behaviour was uncalled for and unprofessional, Hartley did the opposite, knuckled down and got on with it. I personally don't mind if either were to came back or not, easy-oazy. I wouldn't be disappointed if they did but at the same time it wouldn't bother me if they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I'm not saying he hasn't played anyone with flair. He has. However, they don't always fit into the way Levein wants to play. How long did Valois last? He scored 2 goals in total and was emptied after a year or so. He lasted around 18 months and by coincidence that was the longest he lasted anywhere apart from his spell at Lille. In a 23 year career he had 12 clubs which suggested he lacked consistency and was a bit mercurial with ALL of his managers, not just CL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Just to add a dosage of fact to your post, the majority of the Hearts players you mention..Cameron, Adam, Fulton, Flogel, Juanjo etc were JJ signings. If you read my post, I am referring to flair players like Skacel, who tend to do their own thing, a flash of brilliance that hasn't been pre- planned by the manager. That may well come at the expense of tracking back at times or defending corners. Anathema to Levein. It may well be "Levein's team" that won the Scottish Cup but it waa Peter Houston who guided them through the latter stages, set the team up, delivered the team talk, made the subs and ultimately lifted the Cup. There is absolutely no guarantee Levein would have achieved that, he might well have, but he didn't. They did beat us several times during our crazy years between the Cup wins, but our teams a couple of years either side of that period would have destroyed his Dundee Utd team You’re contradicting yourself here Enzo. One minute Ute you’re saying Lafferty can be our talisman, a player who can produce a piece of magic and do his own thing not pre-planned. All things that Levein won’t have in his team according to you, yet he played him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, way out west jambo said: You would prefer it if Lafferty signed for Hibs than Hearts?? ?? This in a nutshell just shows the mentality of some of our support. It also shows that people who don’t want Lafferty back at hearts do not know anything about football. If Lafferty resigns for hearts, you’ll see one of the biggest rounds of applause, cheers & Lafferty chants, when he comes on for his debut I guarantee you. 95% of the support will be in their feet applauding him when he comes on. The haters will be in the minority and you’ll miss 5 minutes of the game because you’ll be the only ones sitting in your section while the rest of the fans are on their feet welcoming back big Kyle. Christ. That wasn't the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Just to add a dosage of fact to your post, the majority of the Hearts players you mention..Cameron, Adam, Fulton, Flogel, Juanjo etc were JJ signings. If you read my post, I am referring to flair players like Skacel, who tend to do their own thing, a flash of brilliance that hasn't been pre- planned by the manager. That may well come at the expense of tracking back at times or defending corners. Anathema to Levein. It may well be "Levein's team" that won the Scottish Cup but it waa Peter Houston who guided them through the latter stages, set the team up, delivered the team talk, made the subs and ultimately lifted the Cup. There is absolutely no guarantee Levein would have achieved that, he might well have, but he didn't. They did beat us several times during our crazy years between the Cup wins, but our teams a couple of years either side of that period would have destroyed his Dundee Utd team If we're talking doses of fact and not just indulging in confirmation bias, how about the single most spectacularly talented player I've ever seen in maroon? The one most capable of flashes of individual brilliance, a genuinely exciting talent signed by Levein, picked by Levein, who went on to play more than 100 games in the EPL? Ricardo Fuller sir stop celebrating, for you are anathema to Levein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Rudolf said: You’re contradicting yourself here Enzo. One minute Ute you’re saying Lafferty can be our talisman, a player who can produce a piece of magic and do his own thing not pre-planned. All things that Levein won’t have in his team according to you, yet he played him. He did indeed play him but he didn't sign him and I got the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Lafferty's days were numbered when CL took over. Which is why I don't think he would entertain re-signing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Smithee said: If we're talking doses of fact and not just indulging in confirmation bias, how about the single most spectacularly talented player I've ever seen in maroon? The one most capable of flashes of individual brilliance, a genuinely exciting talent signed by Levein, picked by Levein, who went on to play more than 100 games in the EPL? Ricardo Fuller sir stop celebrating, for you are anathema to Levein. It was indeed a great loan signing and, for one season only unfortunately, he produced some great performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, Enzo Chiefo said: It was indeed a great loan signing and, for one season only unfortunately, he produced some great performances. He was brilliant, and you'll no doubt remember the only reason he didn't stay longer is Tivoli Gardens wanted a million and we just couldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: It's not all down to money Jammy. It's about how you utilise your flair players to get the best out of them. Players like Perreira, Juanjo and Valois were moved on pretty quickly. It is about money. If Levein had the money to sign Kent he would. Also, you might recall that Rudi only came back because Vlad overruled JJ who didn’t want him. Also Sergio didn’t start Rudi for around the first 2 months of that season (maybe 3 months). JJ also made that big lump Kyle the focus of our team (successfully whilst he was fit). So this being a purely Levein thing doesn’t stack up. Edited June 23, 2019 by Jammy T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Smithee said: He was brilliant, and you'll no doubt remember the only reason he didn't stay longer is Tivoli Gardens wanted a million and we just couldn't do it. I do remember and obviously a million was well outside our budget. That goal he scored against Mwell?? just before Christmas, fairly sticks in the memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Jammy T said: It is about money. If Levein had the money to sign Kent he would. Also, you might recall that Rudi only came back because Vlad overruled JJ who didn’t want him. Also Sergio didn’t start Rudi for around the first 2 months of that season (maybe 3 months). So this being a purely Levein thing doesn’t stack up. All managers make decisions based on various factors, I'm not disagreeing with that. Sergio would have had his reasons but he was certainly playing when it mattered most. My point was, is, that I don't think CL would have Rudi Skacel in his team. We will never know for sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, TheAntiHibee said: Just can't see him being that good if he were to sign again. Very much doubt he would but it is not happening anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 The only way is be happy with Lafferty back is if we don’t need to pay a fee, he is on a modest wage and the rest of the team are happy with it happening. All in all though, it’s not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said: To be fair, Jodami, a lot of the time, away from home, he was left isolated up front with a huge gap back to our nearest supporting midfielder. I agree, though, he did reserve his best performances for bigger games. We were poor while he was there but equally poor after he left imo I agree on our performances and I have similar thoughts on the management as you. However, I don't think Lafferty is the answer I think we need someone more mobile and a more natural finisher to play with or indeed without Uche up front. We probably got the best out of Lafferty in the latter part of his career but it still wasn't brilliant and he obviously brings a ton of other baggage with his issues off the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: All managers make decisions based on various factors, I'm not disagreeing with that. Sergio would have had his reasons but he was certainly playing when it mattered most. My point was, is, that I don't think CL would have Rudi Skacel in his team. We will never know for sure though. You don't think Craig would play a goal machine like Rudi???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: You don't think Craig would play a goal machine like Rudi???? Funny ? He had the choice to sign him and chose not to. Sorry it was his puppet that chose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Lafferty would be our talisman if he re-signed, regardless of Naismith. I agree ! To a section of the support anyway☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said: Funny ? He had the choice to sign him and chose not to. Sorry it was his puppet that chose not to. He was a pensioner by that time.☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said: Funny ? He had the choice to sign him and chose not to. Sorry it was his puppet that chose not to. What age was he by then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: All managers make decisions based on various factors, I'm not disagreeing with that. Sergio would have had his reasons but he was certainly playing when it mattered most. My point was, is, that I don't think CL would have Rudi Skacel in his team. We will never know for sure though. Skacel only started playing because Sergio was completely ****ing it up in the league - was a move of desperation. We have been so lucky with skacel - he has carried the team basically all of this time at the club apart from his first 5 months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jammy T said: Skacel only started playing because Sergio was completely ****ing it up in the league - was a move of desperation. We have been so lucky with skacel - he has carried the team basically all of this time at the club apart from his first 5 months or so. No-one knows exactly why Skacel or anyone else for that matter was playing or not. Sergio did a fantastic job to finish 5th that year with all the issues going on regarding wages etc. He kept that squad united and motivated despite not being paid himself. To go to Hampden and beat Celtic and demolish Hibs was a remarkable achievement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: No-one knows exactly why Skacel or anyone else for that matter was playing or not. Sergio did a fantastic job to finish 5th that year with all the issues going on regarding wages etc. He kept that squad united and motivated despite not being paid himself. To go to Hampden and beat Celtic and demolish Hibs was a remarkable achievement. We got to the cup final solely because of Skacel. No Skacel no cup final. Edited June 23, 2019 by Jammy T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 I would be very surprised to see Lafferty back at Hearts, he fulfilled his role and made us money. We move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, Jammy T said: We got to the cup final solely because of Skacel. No Skacel no cup final. It was very much a team effort but of course Skacel was an important player. Equally you could have said, no last minute Jamie Hamill equaliser in Perth, no Cup Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrekeo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said: It was very much a team effort but of course Skacel was an important player. Equally you could have said, no last minute Jamie Hamill equaliser in Perth, no Cup Final. I refuse to acknowledge that happened. Nevermind the Martins, Sammons and Vanaceks, it repulses me we paid him a wage. I admit that may be a little short-sighted and petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 54 minutes ago, Shrekeo said: I refuse to acknowledge that happened. Nevermind the Martins, Sammons and Vanaceks, it repulses me we paid him a wage. I admit that may be a little short-sighted and petty. If it's any consolation, he wasn't getting paid that season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 22/06/2019 at 10:23, Cruyff Turn said: Lafferty 20 goals in 48 games Naismith 18 goals in 43 games I’m sure we can find someone else that will bang in a few goals next season. ?? Aye, Levein has a good eye for a 20 goals a season striker. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: Aye, Levein has a good eye for a 20 goals a season striker. ? You do realise how rare these 20 goals a season players are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: You do realise how rare these 20 goals a season players are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: Aye, Levein has a good eye for a 20 goals a season striker. ? Yet Steven Naismith has a better goal scoring record than Lafferty and offers far more. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=sco/domesticleague/topscorers/index.html Levein out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Vlad Magic said: You do realise how rare these 20 goals a season players are? Thanks for proving my point. Makes you wonder why certain posters don't want KL back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said: Yet Steven Naismith has a better goal scoring record than Lafferty and offers far more. ? Not the whole picture. Naismith general play and team attitude is so much better. That having been said I would grudgingly welcome lafferty back if he rattled a few in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said: Thanks for proving my point. Makes you wonder why certain posters don't want KL back. He’s done it once in about 13 seasons. His season with us was a one off. Bookmark this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tyson Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Vlad Magic said: You do realise how rare these 20 goals a season players are? Even more than 15 would be nice. Isma and Juanma managed around that many in a year, and were hounded out of the club. Looks pretty silly when Uche, MacLean, Wighton and Vanecek couldn’t manage that combined in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jammy T said: He’s done it once in about 13 seasons. His season with us was a one off. Bookmark this. Who's to say he won't do it again if he came back? He was obviously happy and settled with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Forever Hearts said: Who's to say he won't do it again if he came back? He was obviously happy and settled with us. He obviously wasn’t - he couldn’t get away quick enough FFS. He only joined if we agreed to transfer him after one season. PMSL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jammy T said: He obviously wasn’t - he couldn’t get away quick enough FFS. He only joined if we agreed to transfer him after one season. PMSL Nonsense. He wouldn't have left for any other Scottish club and he said repeatedly how much he loved it at Hearts and he had a great relationship with AB & CL. Edited June 24, 2019 by Forever Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said: Nonsense. He wouldn't have left for any other Scottish club and he said repeatedly how much he loved it at Hearts and he had a great relationship with AB & CL. Levein confirmed that it was part of the deal with him that we had a gentleman’s agreement to sell him after one year - it’s on record. You trust the word of a lying wife cheating badge kissing gambling addict? Dear god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Jammy T said: Levein confirmed that it was part of the deal with him that we had a gentleman’s agreement to sell him after one year - it’s on record. You trust the word of a lying wife cheating badge kissing gambling addict? Dear god. You just described the average footballer there. And as I say, I'm not looking for a saint up front for Hearts. I'm looking for somebody who can score goals, and Lafferty did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said: You just described the average footballer there. And as I say, I'm not looking for a saint up front for Hearts. I'm looking for somebody who can score goals, and Lafferty did that. “Did” Hasn’t before and hasn’t since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jammy T said: “Did” Hasn’t before and hasn’t since Capable of doing it again though with the right player around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Kyle Lafferty will not be coming back to Hearts. If, on the off chance, it doesn’t actually happen then he won’t score more than 10 goals maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 17 hours ago, Forever Hearts said: Aye, Levein has a good eye for a 20 goals a season striker. ? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premiership/top-scorers This will maybe offer some perspective, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, clouston1992 said: Kyle Lafferty will not be coming back to Hearts. If, on the off chance, it doesn’t actually happen then he won’t score more than 10 goals maximum. What the **** ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morph Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 22/06/2019 at 21:33, simplesimon said: I don't want him back. Scored a few spectacular goals but frustrated the hell out of me by giving the ball away constantly. Our start of season form was best with him on the bench. Yes, he scored 18 goals but did he not have zero or close to assists. Please dont take him back. We can barely get a striker who scores 10 goals a season these days and you're writing a guy off because he got no assists Assists don't win you games and even at that who was he meant to assist when he was playing as a lone striker most of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.