U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[JackLadd]

Something about the Senate gop letting Trump's Capitol insurrection go by is vomit inducing. How bad would it have had to get before they convict? How much carnage and death?.

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Something about the Senate gop letting Trump's Capitol insurrection go by is vomit inducing. How bad would it have had to get before they convict? How much carnage and death?.

 

I think the likely acquittal could backfire on the Republicans in a nation which a recent poll indicated that a majority think Trump should be convicted of this assault on democracy. An actual coup attempt.

Let's look at the bullshit his defence will pull. Firstly he's no longer in office so it's not constitutional which is absurd. James Corden came up with a great analogy. You're pulled over by the cops for driving at 100mph. But while you're speaking to them you're not. You're doing 0mph. So you shouldn't be charged?

And the further claim that will be made that he didn't instigate the entire thing. Now they can wiggle around with technical legal arguments but at the end of the day everybody, and I mean everybody including Republicans. Knows that he absolutely did instigate this.
 

He knew exactly what he was instigating when he sent them marching towards that building in which 5 people died including a capitol cop who was beaten to death by Trumps lynch mob. Everybody knows.

He called that mob to be there on that day at that time of day telling them "it's going to be wild" with just one thing in mind. Preventing the verification of a new administration. There's only one way to do that and it's not standing outside quietly protesting. That's a coup attempt.

 If he isn't convicted it will be down to Republicans. It will demonstrate to a nation in which a majority believe Trump should be convicted that the Republicans are untrustworthy in the extreme. Can't even be trusted to perform one of the most basic functions of democracy.

[RobboM]

Been listening to a terrific podcast How it Happened following the cogs in Trump's brain from the election through to Jan 6th. The latest episode focussed on how Pence fell out of favour and they suggest it was down to a Lincoln Project ad, only screened on Fox and only in the DC area, basically an ad for Trump's eyes only, asking Trump how it felt for Mike Pence to be putting the knife into his final efforts at overturning the election. Trump had no idea that Pence would be formally chairing the counting of the electoral college votes and finally endorsing the result.

https://www.axios.com/podcasts/how-it-happened/

[Cade]

Trump's lawyer had a total mare.

No idea what he was doing.

Not that it matters because the GOP won't convict.

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

Trump's lawyer had a total mare.

No idea what he was doing.

Not that it matters because the GOP won't convict.

They’ll just go through the motions 

Cowards.

[Cade]

57 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

They’ll just go through the motions 

Cowards.

 

Well aye, they had another vote to dismiss the trial as unconstitutional and it was only narrowly defeated.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Well aye, they had another vote to dismiss the trial as unconstitutional and it was only narrowly defeated.

 

Saw that.

Is there a time scale for this?

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

 

Well aye, they had another vote to dismiss the trial as unconstitutional and it was only narrowly defeated.

 

 

With the Senate i'm not sure i'd say 56-44 is narrow these days.

[Sharpie]

The news are reporting that Trump was going out of his mind about the ineptitude of his Legal team. I watched  quite a bit of the presentations. The Democrat managers as they call basically the Prosecutors were direct, informative and to the point of the allegations. The first Trump lawyer actually complimented them on their presentation and then rambled as did his colleague  in a manner that showed their total unpreparedness.

The after Hearing pundits all commented their opinion that he will be acquitted in these Senate hearings, there is just no way the Democrats will get enough support from the Republicans. It is shocking that some of these men are so anxious to keep their jobs in upcoming elections that they will sell their very soul to do so, to the detriment of the people they will represent. The names of many  sitting Republicans who have been critics of Trump, but will now vote in his favor will go down in infamy, sadly though it may well be after some more terrible violence causing the loss of life, injury and damage. 

There were also reports that Trumps anger was not only over the Impeachment problem, but more the lack of finances he has, and his ability to get good lawyers to defend him in the probable upcoming State criminal charges that will be started. New York for sure want his fat arse, Georgia are contemplating action about his phone call requesting they find 11,00vvotes, Michigan are mumbling about action, and there is some talk about the election machine company who are suing a group for their wrongful allegations about the machines. One of these is Lou Dodds a now fired Fox contributor who was a strong proponent of Trump, there is rumor that Fox are considering watering down their support of Trump and the Republicans and some other well known commentators may also be released from their positions. The news is interesting just now because the total diversity of the opinions makes good listening.

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

The news are reporting that Trump was going out of his mind about the ineptitude of his Legal team. I watched  quite a bit of the presentations. The Democrat managers as they call basically the Prosecutors were direct, informative and to the point of the allegations. The first Trump lawyer actually complimented them on their presentation and then rambled as did his colleague  in a manner that showed their total unpreparedness.

The after Hearing pundits all commented their opinion that he will be acquitted in these Senate hearings, there is just no way the Democrats will get enough support from the Republicans. It is shocking that some of these men are so anxious to keep their jobs in upcoming elections that they will sell their very soul to do so, to the detriment of the people they will represent. The names of many  sitting Republicans who have been critics of Trump, but will now vote in his favor will go down in infamy, sadly though it may well be after some more terrible violence causing the loss of life, injury and damage. 

There were also reports that Trumps anger was not only over the Impeachment problem, but more the lack of finances he has, and his ability to get good lawyers to defend him in the probable upcoming State criminal charges that will be started. New York for sure want his fat arse, Georgia are contemplating action about his phone call requesting they find 11,00vvotes, Michigan are mumbling about action, and there is some talk about the election machine company who are suing a group for their wrongful allegations about the machines. One of these is Lou Dodds a now fired Fox contributor who was a strong proponent of Trump, there is rumor that Fox are considering watering down their support of Trump and the Republicans and some other well known commentators may also be released from their positions. The news is interesting just now because the total diversity of the opinions makes good listening.

 

Sadly - if put to an anonymous vote they would impeach Trump. They just don't have the spine to do it publicly. 

 

On the court case front - it's absolutely tremendous that the likes of Dobbs and Pirro are in the firing line. These people are not journalists in any shape or form but portrayed by Fox as reporting fact. Fox should be right wing if it wants to be however it shouldn't be made up of mouthpieces like Dobbs/Pirro/Hannity/Carlson. In the same respect MSNBC need to review Scarborough's show, he was the right wing element but it's gone very left and there's little right wing debate. 

[Cade]

"Video footage is easily manipulated, spliced and hoaxed"

Trump's lawyer, yesterday

 

It seems that we imagined it all, 5 people didn't die and that it was all deep faked.

[JackLadd]

Trump had a January exception so can do what he likes up to and including a deadly insurrection is the basic gop position. Beyond bankrupt.

[Bindy Badgy]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

"Video footage is easily manipulated, spliced and hoaxed"

Trump's lawyer, yesterday

 

It seems that we imagined it all, 5 people didn't die and that it was all deep faked.

 

To be fair to the lawyer, it's his job to defend his client to the best of his ability even if the client is as guilty as sin. The problem is that GOP politicians will adopt the same mentality throughout the trial.

[Cade]

Israel actually greeting on Twitter because Biden hasn't called Crooked Benny yet.

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

Israel actually greeting on Twitter because Biden hasn't called Crooked Benny yet.

 

What a shame.

Imagine if he called Mahmoud Abbas before him.

[JFK-1]

 

[JFK-1]

7 hours ago, Sharpie said:

The first Trump lawyer actually complimented them on their presentation and then rambled as did his colleague  in a manner that showed their total unpreparedness.

 

I don't know if I would deem it unpreparedness as simply being stuck in an impossible situation. They know their client is guilty. Everybody even including his supporters in the Senate know it. And everybody knows that everybody knows it. Rock/hard place?

There is actual video evidence of him inciting the entire thing. Months of it even before the day itself when he made his final incitement. How can you prepare for that?

Well best you can do is take another step down the crazy path and try to suggest that all video from countless sources all matching is fake. Which apparently according to a post here they have now tried to suggest.

And these people seriously expect to be taken seriously?  

[Sharpie]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I don't know if I would deem it unpreparedness as simply being stuck in an impossible situation. They know their client is guilty. Everybody even including his supporters in the Senate know it. And everybody knows that everybody knows it. Rock/hard place?

There is actual video evidence of him inciting the entire thing. Months of it even before the day itself when he made his final incitement. How can you prepare for that?

Well best you can do is take another step down the crazy path and try to suggest that all video from countless sources all matching is fake. Which apparently according to a post here they have now tried to suggest.

And these people seriously expect to be taken seriously?  

 

I actually was cheating a bit on my comment about being unprepared, it was actually an opinion heard more than once by persons reporting on the hearings. The common theme as I understood it was that the present legal team have been recently put into their position as a result of prior teams being replaced. Whatever description one wants to use whether unprepared, unsuccessful or just plain whopped by the other team can all be utilised to some extent. To some extent even those poor lawyers themselves looked like a losing team. That was so clear from the opening statement commending the Democratic managers for their presentations. I am just awaiting the restart of the session when more new damning evidence is expected to be revealed. Interesting though frightening times.

 

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

The common theme as I understood it was that the present legal team have been recently put into their position as a result of prior teams being replaced.

 

I think it might actually be the case that a prior team acknowledged this was an impossible situation. And would make them look bad because the only way to 'defend' it was to go down the crazy path. Dispute indisputable reality.

I think they probably wriggled themselves out of it. And he was left with little options regarding a 'team'. Not too many lawyers want to look crazy. Bad for future reputation. Giuliani being an exception to the rule.

[The Real Maroonblood]

32 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

[DETTY29]

Wow.

 

I hope though that Brian Sikneck's family gave permission.

 

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

Have people seen the Smartmatic lawsuit vs Fox News, Sidney Powell and Rudy Gulliani and others? 
 The opening Paragraphs is something.  
 

Dominion are also suing Sidney Powell.

Edited February 10, 2021 by CavySlaveJambo

[JackLadd]

Trump currently being eviscerated by House impeachment manager. 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Watch the bottom video from 1.13... rioter reading Trump’s tweet about Pence over a bullhorn.

 

 

[Sharpie]

I've just watched the presentations by two of the Impeachment managers. The gave an excellent perspective of the violence, and threat that was incurred by Trumps rhetoric. What I found truly impactful was the points made about the things Trump failed to say, such as stop this violence, this is wrong.  It is really hard to believe that elected members of any Country's  political entity  can watch this terrible day and vote technically in support of a not guilty decision because they are in fear that a vote against a despot and his followers may negatively impact a future  election. One of the things I personally found difficult about leadership was to come to decisions that may impact your reputation and may be seen as a betrayal of your past, but doing the right thing was more important, I hope some of these Republicans can have a similar desire to do ones duty for the right reasons and those they represent.

[Maple Leaf]

The evidence presented by the House managers is compelling.  However, we all know that the Republicans will not vote to convict.

 

I can only hope that when the Impeachment trial is over the evidence will be turned over to the Department of Justice. One can hope that an incitement to riot, the deaths and destruction, the attempted coup, will not go without consequence for those responsible.

[JackLadd]

16 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

The evidence presented by the House managers is compelling.  However, we all know that the Republicans will not vote to convict.

 

I can only hope that when the Impeachment trial is over the evidence will be turned over to the Department of Justice. One can hope that an incitement to riot, the deaths and destruction, the attempted coup, will not go without consequence for those responsible.

 

It should 100℅ happen. Trump apparently has zero remorse regards the riot and his role. He is an unrepentant pos.

[JackLadd]

16 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

The evidence presented by the House managers is compelling.  However, we all know that the Republicans will not vote to convict.

 

I can only hope that when the Impeachment trial is over the evidence will be turned over to the Department of Justice. One can hope that an incitement to riot, the deaths and destruction, the attempted coup, will not go without consequence for those responsible.

 

It should 100℅ happen. Trump apparently has zero remorse regards the riot and his role. He is an unrepentant pos.

[Seymour M Hersh]

6 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

The evidence presented by the House managers is compelling.  However, we all know that the Republicans will not vote to convict.

 

I can only hope that when the Impeachment trial is over the evidence will be turned over to the Department of Justice. One can hope that an incitement to riot, the deaths and destruction, the attempted coup, will not go without consequence for those responsible.

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

[Cade]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

This kind of batshit mental thinking is part of the problem

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Cade

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

 

Frankly I have no idea what you're trying to say. Give me a clue. Are you saying Trump wasn't responsible for this attack on the capitol? You think it was a set up? Antifa dunnit?

[CavySlaveJambo]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 they won't release the autopsy

Does the fact that it is still be investigated by the FBI not have something to do with that. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

This kind of batshit mental thinking is part of the problem

 

This.

[Jeffros Furios]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

You are  the sort of guy that would get a phone call from Don Shipley .

Edited February 11, 2021 by Jeffros Furios
spelling

[The Real Maroonblood]

44 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

You are  the sort of guy that would get a phone call from Don Shipley .

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

I thought the woman was shot was attacking the Capitol v, Building,as part of a coup attempt. I think the police did well to only shoot one of the attackers dead.

[JFK-1]

 

Historian Heather Cox Richardson Says Trump Could Be Convicted

 

 

 

[JackLadd]

17 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Historian Heather Cox Richardson Says Trump Could Be Convicted

 

 

 

 

Too bad scum like Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz won't be sent down with him.

[The Real Maroonblood]

37 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I thought the woman was shot was attacking the Capitol v, Building,as part of a coup attempt. I think the police did well to only shoot one of the attackers dead.

Very lucky there was not more fatalities. 

[JFK-1]

Questioning why that woman was shot is ludicrous in the extreme. The video of it demonstrates exactly why she was shot. 

She was at the front of a riotous mob smashing through the building screaming about murdering politicians. I'm baffled that anybody is baffled about why she was shot.

And it had the desired effect. The attack at that door immediately halted. The armed police inside actually showed great restraint. It's amazing many more weren't shot.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Frankly I have no idea what you're trying to say. Give me a clue. Are you saying Trump wasn't responsible for this attack on the capitol? You think it was a set up? Antifa dunnit?

 

Basically your patronising pish doesn't really deserve a reply but I shall. I think this whole charade is a waste of the Senates time and money as impeachment is for removing someone in office. Trump is not in office. If they want to ban him from ever holding office again there is a simpler way to do it that only requires a 51/49 majority. It's purely an act of vindictiveness by democrats who despise Trump more than they love their country. Leave the courts to **** him over due to tax evasion or whatever else they can find bu this impeachment trial (and I use that word loosely as it's not really a trial) is, in my opinion, just a political circus. And a circus that is hardly going to do anything to create unity in the country. 

[Gards]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Basically your patronising pish doesn't really deserve a reply but I shall. I think this whole charade is a waste of the Senates time and money as impeachment is for removing someone in office. Trump is not in office. If they want to ban him from ever holding office again there is a simpler way to do it that only requires a 51/49 majority. It's purely an act of vindictiveness by democrats who despise Trump more than they love their country. Leave the courts to **** him over due to tax evasion or whatever else they can find bu this impeachment trial (and I use that word loosely as it's not really a trial) is, in my opinion, just a political circus. And a circus that is hardly going to do anything to create unity in the country. 

So they sit back, do nothing and send a message to future presidents that it's ok to incite insurrection?

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

52 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I thought the woman was shot was attacking the Capitol v, Building,as part of a coup attempt. I think the police did well to only shoot one of the attackers dead.

 

Do you really believe that riot was an attempted Coup d'état?

 

This is part of the Britannica definition.

 

"Coup d’état, also called coup, the sudden, violent overthrow of an existing government by a small group. The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements".

 

Do you really think that's what these idiots had in mind? 

 

Do you also think it's comparable (as some in congress seem to think) to 9/11?

 

Or as Chuck Schumer thinks Pearl Harbour? 

 

It was a riot pure and simple and the idiots responsible need caught and punished.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Gards said:

So they sit back, do nothing and send a message to future presidents that it's ok to incite insurrection?

 

 

Of course that's exactly what I'm saying................not.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

You are  the sort of guy that would get a phone call from Don Shipley .

 

Who?

[Gards]

16 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Of course that's exactly what I'm saying................not.

I never said you said that.  I was raising a question that the alternate of not going ahead with impeachment sends a message that what happened on Jan 6 is ok.  Lets remember this is the same Trump who said he could walk down 5th Avenue and shoot a person and nothing would be done to him.  He has previous.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Do you really believe that riot was an attempted Coup d'état?

 

This is part of the Britannica definition.

 

"Coup d’état, also called coup, the sudden, violent overthrow of an existing government by a small group. The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements".

 

Do you really think that's what these idiots had in mind? 

 

Do you also think it's comparable (as some in congress seem to think) to 9/11?

 

Or as Chuck Schumer thinks Pearl Harbour? 

 

It was a riot pure and simple and the idiots responsible need caught and punished.

Yes, the small group, including militia, appeared to be quite violent.

 

Opinions,eh?

 

[redjambo]

Much as we may mock the lunatic Trumpian cabal in the USA, we're not immune to it on this side of the pond too. It really brings it home to you when folk here in the UK, who otherwise appear fairly reasonable, show the same sort of denialist twisted mental processes.

[The Real Maroonblood]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Much as we may mock the lunatic Trumpian cabal in the USA, we're not immune to it on this side of the pond too. It really brings it home to you when folk here in the UK, who otherwise appear fairly reasonable, show the same sort of denialist twisted mental processes.

That could be the residential expert on the Covid19 thread you are describing. 

[Maple Leaf]

6 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So compelling that a statement made by Cicilline had to be withdrawn as it wasn't true. Five dead all apparently Trump supporters/voters (even the poor officer who died supposedly voted for Trump) some of whom were not even in the Capitol and it cannot be proved were ever part of the riot. One unarmed woman shot by an un-named Capitol Officer why he shot her is still completely unexplained. The police officer who sadly died was immediately cremated and they won't release the autopsy results. Although the Democrats are saying he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher his body showed no signs of trauma and he'd spoken to his brother by phone saying apart from being pepper sprayed twice he was fine. Still no charges or suspects in this alleged murder.

 

But as you say, compelling theatre from the Dems. 

 

Yes, compelling, but not theatre as you describe.  Theatre is intended to entertain, whereas the Dems proved that the violent riot was inspired by Trump and encouraged by Trump.  Then Trump sat back and watched the violence unfolding on TV and did nothing to stop or curtail it for hours. Trump was the leader of the country, yet he acted like a insurrectionist.  That's not theatre, that's a national tragedy, and the Dems laid out their case against Trump in a compelling manner.  Even some GOP senators complimented the House managers on their presentation.

 

Of course it was only Trump supporters died ... it was a mob of Trump supporters participating in the riot.

 

Who cares about the actual cause of death of the police officer?  He died as a result of the actions of the mob and that's all that matters.  Maybe it was a heart attack brought on by being pepper sprayed or being struck by a fire extinguisher.  Does it really matter? The fact is that he died, and he died due to the actions of a Trump-inspired mob.  You say that "they" won't release the autopsy report.  Who are "they"? If you are suggesting that "they" are Dems, what evidence to you have for that?

 

The woman who was shot was part of a mob who were trespassing and committing acts of violence, all while baying for the blood of politicians.  There is no mystery here. She was shot as she tried to climb through a smashed window inside the building and the incident was vividly captured on video.  What other explanation are you looking for?