U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Victorian]

9 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

ISRAEL ALREADY USES THEM AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS. LIKE WE AND THE US HAVE USED THEM IN RECENT WARS.

 

Do you even read what other people write? 

 

In the meantime, you haven't explained why this unilateral intervention is in our "national interest" (no - it's in Theresa May's domestic political interest); and you haven't explained the legal case either, probably because it doesn't exist. We've broken international law to ensure Syria complies with international law which we ourselves flout regularly? What is this nonsense?

 

As far as I can see, we've bombed Syria to ensure Syria only bombs Syria and doesn't use other forms of weapons against Syria. Even though we've used other forms of weapons ourselves, our key ally in the region continues to use them, and we weren't prepared to wait and properly establish whether Syria used those weapons against Syria, or alternatively, Syria used those weapons against Syria.

 

I have explained the national interest basis.  Twice.    It's quite clear and obvious.     The only people saying they don't see where it is are doing so because it doesn't assist a wider agenda or philosophy.   Like.. eh.. you.

 

Same goes for the legal basis.    The sound basis is there.    Failing to see it or denying it's existence is borne only from pre-set prejudice.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Victorian

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

I have explained the national interest basis.  Twice.    It's quite clear and obvious.     The only people saying they don't see where it is are doing so because it doesn't assist a wider agenda or philosophy.   Like.. eh.. you.

 

Same goes for the legal basis.    The sound basis is there.    Failing to see it or denying it's existence us borne only from pre-set prejudice.

 

 

 

Complete fail on both counts. Just repeating something again and again without explaining it at all doesn't make it correct.

 

At present, you're like a mirror image of the tinfoil wearers you always ridicule. 

[Number28]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

How many Syrian refugees have we taken? 

Asking this question is simply a tactic to distract from the issue of stopping Assad bombing humanity with illegal weapons.

[Victorian]

It could not be clearer.   It's been carefully explained by the government.    If you can't of wont grasp the concept then you never will or don't want to believe the obvious.    If it's any comfort,  it's only your own fault.

[shaun.lawson]

3 minutes ago, Number28 said:

Asking this question is simply a tactic to distract from the issue of stopping Assad bombing humanity with illegal weapons.

 

No it isn't. It's the exact question which should be asked amid a humanitarian catastrophe.

 

Syria's borders are closed. People cannot get in or out. In your world, our contribution to stopping a humanitarian catastrophe which has been going on for 7 years is, apparently, to bomb the place for one night only. It's not to help them; it's not to bring them to safety; it's not to offer them anything at all. "Here! Have some bombs!" 

 

See you again same time next year for more of the same. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Number28]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

No it isn't. It's the exact question which should be asked amid a humanitarian catastrophe.

 

Syria's borders are closed. People cannot get in or out. In your world, our contribution to stopping a humanitarian catastrophe is, apparently, to bomb the place for one night only. It's not to help them; it's not to bring them to safety; it's not to offer them anything at all. "Here! Have some bombs!" 

 

See you again same time next year for more of the same. 

You're correct if you are suggesting that the UN must harder to bring peace about in this country. However, to take no immediate action to stop the use of illegal weapons would be seen as weakness by Russia and Syriah who both would have assumed they were untouchable and had got away with murder?

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Number28 said:

You're correct if you are suggesting that the UN must harder to bring peace about in this country. However, to take no immediate action to stop the use of illegal weapons would be seen as weakness by Russia and Syriah who both would have assumed they were untouchable and had got away with murder?

 

They're getting away with murder as it is. That's what happens in wars. We've been getting away with murder too. In Iraq, we may have killed up to 31 times more civilians than we've acknowledged, as this detailed investigation from the tinfoil hat wearing New York Times sets out:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/16/magazine/uncounted-civilian-casualties-iraq-airstrikes.html

 

As for the UN: the UN's failure to agree a resolution on this is why our intervention is illegal.

 

- We haven't been attacked

 

- There's no UN resolution authorising use of force

 

- There's no UN resolution authorising use of force under Responsibility to Protect either

 

So, it's illegal. 

 

But given our concern for the immense human suffering ongoing in Syria, that we've hardly taken any refugees; that we arm Saudi Arabia to cause the same human suffering in Yemen; that we bombed Libya to bits, then ****ed off, enabling the same human suffering there too; and that we support Israel as it uses chemical weapons (white phosphorus) in Gaza whenever it feels like it, is kinda a joke, tbh. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Well, it's true that Article II is the "Executive Article" of the Constitution. So anything within it would necessarily relate to the Executive Branch.

 

In my opinion, there's nothing in there that empowers the President to do anything without there first being a declaration of war as prescribed in Article I, the "Legislative Article".

 

The War Powers Act is still operative here, correct?  Of course that would require Congress or the judiciary to do something about it to enforce it, which they haven't for decades, but still.

 

Congress being a basketcase of an institution at the moment is the source of an enormous number of problems in the US right now.

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

The War Powers Act is still operative here, correct?  Of course that would require Congress or the judiciary to do something about it to enforce it, which they haven't for decades, but still.

 

Congress being a basketcase of an institution at the moment is the source of an enormous number of problems in the US right now.

 

Indeed. But if only it were just Congress.

 

 

In summary, the only things and people preventing the US from imploding are the magnificent judicial branch; and James Mattis. The real President. 

[jake]

11 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Personally no. But UN-OPCW seem to...

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-syria-crisis-chemicalweapons-exclusiv/exclusive-tests-link-syrian-government-stockpile-to-largest-sarin-attack-sources-idUKKBN1FJ0NS

That's samples of chemical make up which is the same as Syrian stockpiles.

 

A country torn by war and invasion .

And worse.

Sorry not good enough.

 

 

And let's be clear .

In what was a peaceful relatively secular and relatively advanced state for the region destabilization began at the hands of the CIA.

There have been 100s of illegal attacks on a nation by western powers because we believe we are right.

 

 

So have you found independent verification for these accusations 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

@shaun.lawson of course the Presidency is currently a basket case, but that's an even bigger deal b/c Congress can't get out of its own way to do anything about it. The Executive being a complete unholy mess is only since 2017, Congress has been broken since the 1990s, and it's meant increasing kowtowing to the Executive at all levels, leading to a far more powerful Executive than is healthy.

 

We have become ancient Israel, going from foreswearing tyranny to begging Samuel for a king.

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, jake said:

have you found independent verification for these accusations 

 

Yes he has. It's what the article is about. 

[Justin Z]

(double post)

Edited April 14, 2018 by Justin Z
double post

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

The War Powers Act is still operative here, correct?  Of course that would require Congress or the judiciary to do something about it to enforce it, which they haven't for decades, but still.

 

Congress being a basketcase of an institution at the moment is the source of an enormous number of problems in the US right now.

 

Yes absolutely, they doubled down on the blatant illegality of unilateral executive action in 1973 and yet it still happens, constantly, as you said.  I didn't even want to get into that because frankly it's not f***ing necessary, the Constitution is quite sufficient.

 

But I know I'm ranting at the choir here.

[jake]

3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yes he has. It's what the article is about. 

Shaun

I read the article

[mac]

President Jaffa Cake scares me  

[Governor Tarkin]

So are we all going to die in an atomic fireball then?

[shaun.lawson]

6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

So are we all going to die in an atomic fireball then?

 

Quora would like to know.

 

[Sharpie]

It is indeed becoming more difficult to believe its all happening.  The President of the United States is Tweeting his opinion of a former Director of the F.B.I. referring to him as a slimeball, calling him a liar, his rhetoric in fact in his Tweets is quite frankly disgusting and would probably invoke a ban on somewhere like JKB.  Comey gets no defence from me, I think he has demeaned himself by coming out with his book at this time.  I have seen some previews of his upcoming interview, and for a man who has been given considerable credit for his excellent memory he uses the phrase " I can't recall" quite often. These are two men one in the highest office in his land, the other the highest  office basically in law enforcement, and both are using points and language at times that is unacceptable in a civil society.

 

I put a lot of responsibility for such conduct and it happens here on JKB, the new age of anonymity, insults, insultingly descriptive words are used, distance and lack of personal contact even in the case of Trump and Comey illicits conduct that face to face would limit, and as for working mens disputes or arguments, would you face to face call a man a scumbag, slimeball, or something similar, here I go again, in my day you might, but the chance of you and the recipient of your comment leaving with a full set of teeth or a straight nose would be minimal.

 

I can live quite comfortably with the foibles of web pages I try to let it run off my back, althouh on occasion I rankle just like everyone else, but I expect much better from the elected Statesmen and appointed leaders of our society.

[JamboX2]

20 hours ago, jake said:

That's samples of chemical make up which is the same as Syrian stockpiles.

 

A country torn by war and invasion .

And worse.

Sorry not good enough.

 

 

And let's be clear .

In what was a peaceful relatively secular and relatively advanced state for the region destabilization began at the hands of the CIA.

There have been 100s of illegal attacks on a nation by western powers because we believe we are right.

 

 

So have you found independent verification for these accusations 

 

The article shows that the OPCW at the request of the UN confirmed the Gouta attacks were by Assad.

 

So an independent source has confirmed Assad has done this before.

 

It is therefore clear that he is likely to have done this again and again.

 

The destabilising of Syria is not a CIA plot. It began when Assad started a clamp down on pro-democracy protesters. It spiralled into Civil War when factions of the military turned against him. The most serious attempts at destabilization have come from Saudi and Gulf funding to jihadist groups in a proxy war against Iran.

 

We all want a stable Syria. But that doesn't justify Russia blocking UN votes against Assad's use of chemical weapons which that link confirms had been the case and quotes the independent OPCW.

[jake]

30 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The article shows that the OPCW at the request of the UN confirmed the Gouta attacks were by Assad.

 

So an independent source has confirmed Assad has done this before.

 

It is therefore clear that he is likely to have done this again and again.

 

The destabilising of Syria is not a CIA plot. It began when Assad started a clamp down on pro-democracy protesters. It spiralled into Civil War when factions of the military turned against him. The most serious attempts at destabilization have come from Saudi and Gulf funding to jihadist groups in a proxy war against Iran.

 

We all want a stable Syria. But that doesn't justify Russia blocking UN votes against Assad's use of chemical weapons which that link confirms had been the case and quotes the independent OPCW.

I know you want what's right jambo.

 

[shaun.lawson]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/michael-cohen-and-the-end-stage-of-the-trump-presidency?mbid=social_twitter

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The article shows that the OPCW at the request of the UN confirmed the Gouta attacks were by Assad.

 

So an independent source has confirmed Assad has done this before.

 

It is therefore clear that he is likely to have done this again and again.

 

The destabilising of Syria is not a CIA plot. It began when Assad started a clamp down on pro-democracy protesters. It spiralled into Civil War when factions of the military turned against him. The most serious attempts at destabilization have come from Saudi and Gulf funding to jihadist groups in a proxy war against Iran.

 

We all want a stable Syria. But that doesn't justify Russia blocking UN votes against Assad's use of chemical weapons which that link confirms had been the case and quotes the independent OPCW.

 

Food insecurity played a part as well, as did ISIS. ISIS owes a lot of its existence to Paul Bremer's complete and total incompetence in Iraq, particularly disbanding the Iraqi Army, which created a huge population of well-trained, disillusioned, unemployed, angry, Sunni men looking for something to do to take out their anger.

 

But again, as you say, the CIA didn't organize ISIS. Rather, the Bush administration and its war machine created the conditions for incompetence because they were all terrible at their jobs.

[Maple Leaf]

58 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/michael-cohen-and-the-end-stage-of-the-trump-presidency?mbid=social_twitter

 

 

 

"We're now in the end stages of the Trump presidency."

 

Is it really possible that the Americans will rid themselves of this shallow, depraved con man?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

"We're now in the end stages of the Trump presidency."

 

Is it really possible that the Americans will rid themselves of this shallow, depraved con man?

 

How 53% of anyone approves of this buffoon is beyond me.

[shaun.lawson]

10 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

"We're now in the end stages of the Trump presidency."

 

Is it really possible that the Americans will rid themselves of this shallow, depraved con man?

 

Thanks to the checks and balances, it is. But only because Mueller's whole strategy has been genius in its execution.

[jake]

My goodness me.

Long live fascism delivered by the left.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

In other news, Sean Penn has just announced a follow up  to his novel "Bob Honey Who Just Do Stuff".

 

It is called "Donald Trump Who Just Do Stuff People".

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

Food insecurity played a part as well, as did ISIS. ISIS owes a lot of its existence to Paul Bremer's complete and total incompetence in Iraq, particularly disbanding the Iraqi Army, which created a huge population of well-trained, disillusioned, unemployed, angry, Sunni men looking for something to do to take out their anger.

 

But again, as you say, the CIA didn't organize ISIS. Rather, the Bush administration and its war machine created the conditions for incompetence because they were all terrible at their jobs.

 

This in spades. Paul Bremer was advised by the UK to not disband the Iraqi Army in 2003. Being an ex-imperial nation gives you a history of using domestic forces to police those you've defeated: Japanese troops policed many areas liberated at the end of WW2 in the Far East for example, German troops were policing West Germany for allied troops in 45. 

 

This allowed the skill and knowledge of weapon stores to fall into the hands of insurgent movements like ISIS. 

 

We are reaping what we sewed in 2003. Nothing more. There is no global conspiracy. Just incompetency. Human fallibility is more terrifying than conspiracies orchestrated from the Kremlin or by the CIA. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, jake said:

My goodness me.

Long live fascism delivered by the left.

 

Jake, what are you wittering on about now?

[Mikey1874]

18 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The article shows that the OPCW at the request of the UN confirmed the Gouta attacks were by Assad.

 

So an independent source has confirmed Assad has done this before.

 

It is therefore clear that he is likely to have done this again and again.

 

The destabilising of Syria is not a CIA plot. It began when Assad started a clamp down on pro-democracy protesters. It spiralled into Civil War when factions of the military turned against him. The most serious attempts at destabilization have come from Saudi and Gulf funding to jihadist groups in a proxy war against Iran.

 

We all want a stable Syria. But that doesn't justify Russia blocking UN votes against Assad's use of chemical weapons which that link confirms had been the case and quotes the independent OPCW.

 

 

[Sharpie]

I think todays happenings in Court will have more impact on the Trump Presidency than anything to do with Syria.  Lawyers will be arguing admissibility of evidence garnered in the Cohen raids. The Judge will decide on attorney client privilege, and if the ruling goes against Trump and Cohen then all or most of what was seized will be open to examination and used as evidence of illegalities. Cohen has ben told he is under criminal investigation. It has been said the Trump is his only client, so meetings he had with Russians, and other business matters, as well as Trumps infidelities will all be out in the open.

 

Trump is apparently, angry, spiteful and for the first time in some reports the word terrified is used.  So far I have not seen any reports of Trumps reaction to Comeys highly touted interview last night.  I watched that and saw a man who should have waited to do what he is doing, so that instead of shaking his head and contemplating his answers whether his decisions were right or wrong, could have made a bold  statement to all the questions that without doubt he done the right thing.  I was not impressed by him, but there is a possibility in the future he will be a key participant in the Trump demise.

[Pans Jambo]

On 4/15/2018 at 13:04, shaun.lawson said:

 

Quora would like to know.

 

This is a serious question that we all want answers for. Just how long can you keep a bargain bucket fresh for if it's in the fridge?

[Notts1874]

Cohen had another client who had requested to remain anonymous during the hearings. The judge has refused this request and he has been named as.................

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Cohen had another client who had requested to remain anonymous during the hearings. The judge has refused this request and he has been named as.................

 

 

Oh dear Sean. Oh dear oh dear.

 

On Twitter, Louise Mensch (who isn't everyone's cup of tea I know, but has been consistently, scarily right about all of this since shortly before the election), has long insisted that Fox News are being investigated by the FBI.

 

If they are, it wouldn't surprise me one iota. And if Hannity went down... that'd be almost as good as Trump going down. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Notts1874]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Oh dear Sean. Oh dear oh dear.

 

On Twitter, Louise Mensch (who isn't everyone's cup of tea I know, but has been consistently, scarily right about all of this since shortly before the election), has long insisted that Fox News are being investigated by the FBI.

 

If they are, it wouldn't surprise me one iota. And if Hannity went down... that'd be almost as good as Trump going down. 

Wonder why he wanted to remain anonymous ????

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

What's this? Genuinely?

 

Genuinely. I've no idea why anyone would be surprised tbh. 

[shaun.lawson]

And also:

 

 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

 

[Notts1874]

6 minutes ago, Barack said:

What's this? Genuinely?

Somebody will probably explain it better....but it seems Hannity did not want to be named and to be referred to as Client 3 or something.

 

At this point the judge also didn't know the name and was handed it in a sealed envelope by one of Cohen's lawyers.

 

He looked at it and said he would name him. Booooooommmmm?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer tw@t.

 

But let's look on the bright side, he might even get to share the same cell with his bum chum Trump, what a lovely pair they would make, don't you think.

 

 

[Notts1874]

Hannity has also been on Fox News since the Cohen raid calling it illegal etc etc......basically the same as Donald.

 

 

Seems to have slipped his mind to tell the viewers he was a client.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Hannity has also been on Fox News since the Cohen raid calling it illegal etc etc......basically the same as Donald.

 

 

Seems to have slipped his mind to tell the viewers he was a client.

 

What you aren't inferring that 'Honest Sean' has been less than, what's it called again..................................... 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Cohen has three clients, apparently.

 

Donald Trump, for whom he handled the $130k hush payment for adult video star Stormy Daniels.

 

Elliott Broidy, for whom Cohen handled a $1.6 million hush payment to a Playboy "playmate" whom he impregnated and then pressured to get an abortion.

 

And Sean Hannity, star Fox News commentator who has been an unwavering supporter and apologist for Trump in all cases.

 

Can't imagine why Hannity wouldn't want his name in with the other two.

[Notts1874]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

What you aren't inferring that 'Honest Sean' has been less than, what's it called again..................................... 

I certainly wouldn't but I can't control what others may say?

[shaun.lawson]

[Maple Leaf]

Trump, Hannity, Pence, Sessions, Cohen, Pruitt, etc. etc. etc.

 

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.

[Notts1874]

Who would have thought an ex porn star may bring this whole thing crashing down ?.

 

Bonfire of the Hannitys

 

Stormy in a pee cup.

[SpruceBringsteen]

For the first time in my puff, I'm salivating over watching Fox News tonight.