U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Notts1874]

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Edited April 9, 2018 by Notts1874
What Barack said.

[Notts1874]

8 minutes ago, Barack said:

Great minds,mate.. 

Obviously ?. Will be keeping an eye on Trump's twitter for the next hour or two?

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Obviously ?. Will be keeping an eye on Trump's twitter for the next hour or two?

You should be able to find a steam for Fox online, that way you find out what he thinks at exactly the same time as him. 

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

You should be able to find a steam for Fox online, that way you find out what he thinks at exactly the same time as him. 

They will be currently running a piece about Hilary or completely ignoring the raid.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

They will be currently running a piece about Hilary or completely ignoring the raid.

No doubt, but I'm sure they'll find space for some outraged racist sooner or later

[Notts1874]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

No doubt, but I'm sure they'll find space for some outraged racist sooner or later

Is Hannity still on? If so I'm going for it being him?

[Notts1874]

He has responded and not on twitter.......yet.

 

He has once again called the Mueller investigation a witch-hunt.

 

He has double downed this time calling it an attack on America.

[Justin Z]

The Search of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen's Office: What We Can Infer Immediately

 

Excellent information here.

[Notts1874]

[Ulysses]

Pay-Per-Trail, NOTTS! 

[shaun.lawson]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Oh, aye...?

 

This won't bite you on the ass down the line, Mikey-boy.

 

 

I swear every single person connected with Trump in any way - and above all, the man himself - are the living embodiment of the "if you point a finger at someone else, there's four fingers pointing back" rule. It's practically performance art at this point.

[Ulysses]

30 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 "if you point a finger at someone else, there's four fingers pointing back"

 

 

Three.

 

[Notts1874]

39 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Pay-Per-Trail, NOTTS! 

Seems the trail may have been in Cohen's office all the time.

 

You'd have thought Nibs would have known this.

[Sharpie]

Now what can Donald do to get this news off the front pages, gee I wonder if he might think of bombing Syria, he will probably call Putin and explain its nothing personal to you, strictly distraction from that other witch hunt.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

Is Hannity still on? If so I'm going for it being him?

 

Tucker Carlson tonight:

 

 

[milky_26]

9 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

Tucker Carlson tonight:

 

 

Those sex crazed pandas who can't even reproduce

[Notts1874]

Here comes the twitter meltdown

 

 

[Cade]

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

"Very SAD to hear about these Sexy Panda's on the EXCELLENT Fox news. Very, very bad for our native Pandas. I'll ensure the Trade Tariff to China increases, & our Panda's get the treatment they deserve, after OBAMA & the bad Democrats closed all the clinics, folks! SAD!!"

 

 

 That, sir, is good satire!

 

Also, this gem from Twitter (the embed doesn't show it but he's quote-tweeting Trump's "attorney-client privilege is dead!" tweet with a link to section of the relevant law that specifies when and how to obtain evidence from an attorney):

 

 

[Sharpie]

There  no Attorney client privilege if the conversation is under certain circumstances, I believe it has to do with both attorney and client discussing a crime in which both had participation.

[Justin Z]

15 hours ago, Justin Z said:

The Search of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen's Office: What We Can Infer Immediately

 

Excellent information here.

 

A fuller write-up this attorney did for the New York Times:

 

Why the FBI Raid is Perilous for Michael Cohen--and Trump

 

The Stormy Daniels payout may be outside the scope of the Russia investigation, but it’s possible that Mr. Cohen’s records are full of materials that are squarely within that scope. And the law is clear: If investigators executing a lawful warrant seize evidence of additional crimes, they may use that evidence. Thus Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen, with their catastrophically clumsy handling of the Daniels affair, may have handed Mr. Mueller devastating evidence.

[Pans Jambo]

Anyhoo, doesn't it seem like aaaagggggeeeeeeeeeeessssss since ol' Uncle Sam had a full-on proper war to protect their country (in someone else's country)?

 

Think there will be a 'good ol' bombing' by the premier military force on the planet on Syria shortly (that is, A LOT MORE bombing than there has been over the last 9 years).

 

Some big beast of an American aircraft carrier just refueled and stocked up in Cyprus before steaming off over the horizon heading towards the Syrian coast.

 

Anyone hear the TOP GUN theme tune???

 

G.I.'s boots on the ground soon perhaps??? Trump could score a hat-trick here: Syria, Russia AND Iran in one go!

 

Interesting times...

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

16 minutes ago, Barack said:

Trump is waiting on the release of the new Avenger's movie at the end of the month.

 

This should then dictate American intervention, & the strength of its response.

 

When the JCOS' receive their orders, to send in Iron Patriot...watch out...

Think you are onto something here.

 

I hope they dont send in the Black Widow though. She may defect to the Ruskiez.

 

Shes too hot for that!

Edited April 10, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Geoff the Mince]

40 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Anyhoo, doesn't it seem like aaaagggggeeeeeeeeeeessssss since ol' Uncle Sam had a full-on proper war to protect their country (in someone else's country)?

 

Think there will be a 'good ol' bombing' by the premier military force on the planet on Syria shortly (that is, A LOT MORE bombing than there has been over the last 9 years).

 

Some big beast of an American aircraft carrier just refueled and stocked up in Cyprus before steaming off over the horizon heading towards the Syrian coast.

 

Anyone hear the TOP GUN theme tune???

 

G.I.'s boots on the ground soon perhaps??? Trump could score a hat-trick here: Syria, Russia AND Iran in one go!

 

Interesting times...

 

 

Syria is a feckin mess 

 

but there  will be no boots on the ground from us or the Yanks .

[Pans Jambo]

14 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Syria is a feckin mess 

 

but there  will be no boots on the ground from us or the Yanks .

You may be right Geoff. Who knows. But what about Trumps tweet “get ready Russia” following the ruskies saying they will shoot down any missiles from USA in Syria. 

The leader of the free world telling another superpower to get ready! 

FFS! Its not a game show Trump!

[J.T.F.Robertson]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

You may be right Geoff. Who knows. But what about Trumps tweet “get ready Russia” following the ruskies saying they will shoot down any missiles from USA in Syria. 

The leader of the free world telling another superpower to get ready! 

FFS! Its not a game show Trump!

 

And yet the previous admin were castigated by this clown for supposedly giving forewarning of intent. The petulant man-child will no doubt lead from the front if his historical military history is anything to go by. (aye right)

 

Feckin bozo!

 

 

[Victorian]

Right.. if it is WW3 then I'm going to furiously email the club to make sure we're getting compensated for any lost home games.   Or it's Budge oot.    

[alwaysthereinspirit]

6 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

You may be right Geoff. Who knows. But what about Trumps tweet “get ready Russia” following the ruskies saying they will shoot down any missiles from USA in Syria. 

The leader of the free world telling another superpower to get ready! 

FFS! Its not a game show Trump!

Did he just tweet "get ready Russia" or were there words before and after making a fuller statement?

[Maple Leaf]

50 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Did he just tweet "get ready Russia" or were there words before and after making a fuller statement?

 

US President Donald Trump tweets: "Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!"

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

US President Donald Trump tweets: "Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!"

Dont think theres much to read between the lines in this one. “They will be coming”!

 

FFS. The Donald wont be happy until half of Syria belongs to Israel. Russia has been put back in its box and Iran has been obliterated into submission!

 

time to dig that bunker in the back garden amd get stocked up!

[Maple Leaf]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Dont think theres much to read between the lines in this one. “They will be coming”!

 

FFS. The Donald wont be happy until half of Syria belongs to Israel. Russia has been put back in its box and Iran has been obliterated into submission!

 

time to dig that bunker in the back garden amd get stocked up!

 

I'm confident that cooler heads will prevail.  Remember all the bellicose tripe he was spouting a few months ago about North Korea.  South Korea and China stepped in to defuse that situation.

 

Mind you, the Middle East is a different kettle of fish, and it's not clear to me who the cooler heads will be in that region.

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I'm confident that cooler heads will prevail.  Remember all the bellicose tripe he was spouting a few months ago about North Korea.  South Korea and China stepped in to defuse that situation.

 

Mind you, the Middle East is a different kettle of fish, and it's not clear to me who the cooler heads will be in that region.

Seriously hope youre right Maple but I suspect Trump wants to flex his milatary muscles. I do think a few well placed missles will be heading to Syria from a Yankee aircraft carrier, a French warship and sadly, a british jet or a submarine within the next few days. The man is itching for a fight & May will happily tag along to back him up. 

[Sharpie]

If the Donald decides to fire missiles at airfields etc. and if one of those missiles hits a Russian aircraft or other equipment and causes the death of Russians, would that be an Act of War.  So often in life especially those who have lived a long one, you have seen incidents that seemed to be just a spat, but end up with the loss of many lives, in some extreme cases millions. I watch this situation with trepidation, it seems from some broadcasts I have heard that the allies, France, Britain for example are not in line with this proposed American action, but cooler heads are not a thing that seem to impress or motivate Trump, he knows everything,  he is a hardliner, but unforunately in the eyes of many they do not see him as he sees himself. Lets hope that pacifist John Bolton impresses on him to desist, aye right.

[The Real Maroonblood]

47 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

US President Donald Trump tweets: "Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!"

There are few adjectives left to describe that moron.

[Cruyff Turn]

Obama's mess in Syria, his weakness and indecision allowed Russia to take the advantage and turn things in Assads favour, which means he can do what he wants to his people. It also allows the Russians to have a Naval base on the Med, it allows Hezbollah and Iran to have bases, training, weapons which can be aimed in Israel's direction, it simply shouldn't be allowed to happen. 

 

I hope Trump, like him or loathe him, unleashes the full extent of America's firepower on Assads forces.

 

The Russians like sabre rattling because they are shit feared of getting into a tiff with the yanks and like to give this air of power. The truth is, Russia are weak as Kittens compared to the US and they wouldn't dare attack the United States. It was the same in 1962, the US and UK believed the USSR had 3000 nukes aimed at the US, they actually had 3 and none of them probably even worked. 

 

Trump isn't going to let the Russians spook him out of attacking Assad or Iran and the Russians won't do a thing when the Americans do attack. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

There are few adjectives left to describe that moron.

 

Trump criticised Obama for getting involved in Syria, so what does Trump do, he bombs Syria.

Trump criticised Obama for telling his Military opponents what he was going to do, so what does Trump do, tells the Russians/Syrians/Iranians he's going to bomb them.

 

Oh the irony.

 

[Cade]

Russian officials claiming that the USA is pressing for missile attacks to happen immediately in order to destroy all evidence that the UN chemical weapons inspectors would be looking for.

 

 

As bonkers a conspiracy theory as this is, the fact that both Russia and USA vetoed each other's proposals for the evidence gathering at the UN muddies the waters.

The UN ended up sending a team on it's own.

So why is the West pressing for attacks now instead of waiting for the UN team to make a report?

Edited April 11, 2018 by Cade

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Obama's mess in Syria, his weakness and indecision allowed Russia to take the advantage and turn things in Assads favour, which means he can do what he wants to his people. It also allows the Russians to have a Naval base on the Med, it allows Hezbollah and Iran to have bases, training, weapons which can be aimed in Israel's direction, it simply shouldn't be allowed to happen. 

 

I hope Trump, like him or loathe him, unleashes the full extent of America's firepower on Assads forces.

 

The Russians like sabre rattling because they are shit feared of getting into a tiff with the yanks and like to give this air of power. The truth is, Russia are weak as Kittens compared to the US and they wouldn't dare attack the United States. It was the same in 1962, the US and UK believed the USSR had 3000 nukes aimed at the US, they actually had 3 and none of them probably even worked. 

 

Trump isn't going to let the Russians spook him out of attacking Assad or Iran and the Russians won't do a thing when the Americans do attack. 

 

It's a catch 22, neither in the US nor the UK was there the appetite to deploy boots on the ground in Syria, nor was there an appetite on both sides of the pond to bomb the Syrian regime.

Given that, tell me just what options were then open to Obama & Cameron, bearing in mind that Cameron was defeated in the UK parliament over his plan for air-strikes against Assad's forces and Obama was faced with a hostile Congress & Senate controlled by Republicans, where there was every chance that no matter what Obama wanted to do, both houses would have voted against anything he wanted to do.

 

Now hind-sight is a wonderful thing, and with hind-sight perhaps it would have been better to have done more to engage Assad's forces more before the Russian's took advantage of the West's weakness and moved in, but that ship sailed a long time ago and we are were we are following the disastrous invasions of Afghanistan & Iraq which had set the die in the public psyche.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Russian officials claiming that the USA is pressing for missile attacks to happen immediately in order to destroy all evidence that the UN chemical weapons inspectors would be looking for.

 

 

As bonkers a conspiracy theory as this is, the fact that both Russia and USA vetoed each other's proposals for the evidence gathering at the UN muddies the waters.

The UN ended up sending a team on it's own.

So why is the West pressing for attacks now instead of waiting for the UN team to make a report?

 

It's only the Russians who are saying the West is going to bomb Douma to try and destroy evidence of a chemical attack

 

If the West bombs Douma then the Russians are correct, if on the other hand the West doesn't bomb Douma then the Russians are wrong, let's just wait and see what happens.

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Jambo-Jimbo

[JamboX2]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

Russian officials claiming that the USA is pressing for missile attacks to happen immediately in order to destroy all evidence that the UN chemical weapons inspectors would be looking for.

 

 

As bonkers a conspiracy theory as this is, the fact that both Russia and USA vetoed each other's proposals for the evidence gathering at the UN muddies the waters.

The UN ended up sending a team on it's own.

So why is the West pressing for attacks now instead of waiting for the UN team to make a report?

 

Not really. The US, France and UK wanted an independent UN led committee which could compel the Syrian government to act and allow full access, identify and name the perpetrators of the attack and publically confirm the source of the weapons. Russia vetoed this.

 

The Russians wanted a non-UN fact finding mission led by the OPCW to be at the invitation if the Syrian government. 

 

In effect the Russians didn't want a strong UN investigation and the others wanted a strong UN investigation. 

 

Russia is actively seeking to protect Syria's government is what I see happening here. The West is pissed off that it didn't act strongly earlier when this happened under Obama and will do so now.

 

At the end of the day we cannot allow these weapons to become common place and used regularly. Desert Fox in the late 90s hammered Iraq for this type of thing. In Syria we seem to have taken a blind eye to this. 

 

No conspiracy theory here. It's a game of competing interests:

 

Russia wants to keep its ally in power.

 

The west want ISIS wiped out and will back anyone to do this.

 

Iran want a base to deter Israel from attacking them.

 

Israel is taking pot shot at Iran.

 

The Kurds are trying to form a nation bordering Turkey from Syria to Iraq.

 

The Turks are opposed to this and bomb the Kurds.

 

In the background Saudi, Qatari and Gulf funds flow in backing various sides.

 

No conspiracy to be found beyond self interest of each participant.

Edited April 11, 2018 by JamboX2

[Ulysses]

36 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No conspiracy to be found beyond self interest of each participant.

 

True, though the crux of the matter is that if a gas attack took place, there are three leaders who are responsible for it.

 

Assad, for giving the order.

 

Putin, for protecting the Assad regime.

 

Trump, for letting the Assad regime think that the United States would not respond if they did something like this.

 

 

We wait and see if the United States actually responds, or if Assad and Putin are in a war of words with a bullshit artist.  Or who knows, maybe both?

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Obama's mess in Syria, his weakness and indecision allowed Russia to take the advantage and turn things in Assads favour, which means he can do what he wants to his people. It also allows the Russians to have a Naval base on the Med, it allows Hezbollah and Iran to have bases, training, weapons which can be aimed in Israel's direction, it simply shouldn't be allowed to happen. 

 

I hope Trump, like him or loathe him, unleashes the full extent of America's firepower on Assads forces.

 

The Russians like sabre rattling because they are shit feared of getting into a tiff with the yanks and like to give this air of power. The truth is, Russia are weak as Kittens compared to the US and they wouldn't dare attack the United States. It was the same in 1962, the US and UK believed the USSR had 3000 nukes aimed at the US, they actually had 3 and none of them probably even worked. 

 

Trump isn't going to let the Russians spook him out of attacking Assad or Iran and the Russians won't do a thing when the Americans do attack. 

 

Nothing good can come out of a full-scale American attack on Assad, should Trump decide to start a war.  George Bush contrived an excuse to attack Iraq, thinking it would be an easy victory and see what happened.  Hundreds of thousand of Iraqi dead, thousands of Americans dead, a trillion dollars of borrowed money down the drain, and the birth of ISIS.

 

Yet another attack by a Christian country (the USA) on a Muslim country (Syria)  would lead to a messy situation getting even messier, imo.  Such an act could never lead to a peaceful outcome.

[JamboX2]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

True, though the crux of the matter is that if a gas attack took place, there are three leaders who are responsible for it.

 

Assad, for giving the order.

 

Putin, for protecting the Assad regime.

 

Trump, for letting the Assad regime think that the United States would not respond if they did something like this.

 

 

We wait and see if the United States actually responds, or if Assad and Putin are in a war of words with a bullshit artist.  Or who knows, maybe both?

 

Agreed. BBC were reporting that the US are making a lot of noise but behind the scenes it's reported (leaked) that Trump is no where near ready to do anything.

[shaun.lawson]

59 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

No conspiracy to be found 

 

Correct. And by the way, we have evidence. Our intelligence intercepted it. I'm surprised it's not been reported more. 

 

http://observer.com/2018/04/british-spies-have-evidence-that-russia-poisoned-sergei-skripal/

 

Under its previous ownership, The Express would never have reported such a story in such a detailed, sober way. This scoop represents its first baby steps towards journalistic rehabilitation (though until I've seen a lot more in such vein, I ain't linking directly to it).

[Section G The Place To Be]

The latest turn of events. News reporting The Russian naval battle group that was docked at the Syrian port have been put out to sea. Part of the group is a kila class sub. 

 

Some experts sayinv they are heading out out ready to strike the US battleship if it fires any missiles, others saying it’s because the US has a battle group heading towards Syria and they are about 5 days away the Ruskies are going out to shadow them like what we and the US do. 

 

Im no military expert but I remember being told once that when you are at war you never leave your ships docked it makes them sitting targets. This would make sense that the Russians are moving them Out the way for safety reasons or for response reasons. 

 

What I don’t get is each side basically telling the other what’s happening or going to happen. It’s almost like they are planning it out for everyone to see. 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Nothing good can come out of a full-scale American attack on Assad, should Trump decide to start a war.  George Bush contrived an excuse to attack Iraq, thinking it would be an easy victory and see what happened.  Hundreds of thousand of Iraqi dead, thousands of Americans dead, a trillion dollars of borrowed money down the drain, and the birth of ISIS.

 

Yet another attack by a Christian country (the USA) on a Muslim country (Syria)  would lead to a messy situation getting even messier, imo.  Such an act could never lead to a peaceful outcome.

I agree but it happened and its opened a can of worms.

 

This is a bit different though, there's different factions at play here and the Russians are getting braver and starting to exert their influence in Eastern Europe with there exertions into Georgia and the annexation of Crimea and in the Middle East. If the US and NATO continue to allow Russia this influence on the world stage, strengthening Iran and Syria, it's possibly creating an even greater problem for the middle east and the world than a few militias. 

 

[JamboX2]

12 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Correct. And by the way, we have evidence. Our intelligence intercepted it. I'm surprised it's not been reported more. 

 

http://observer.com/2018/04/british-spies-have-evidence-that-russia-poisoned-sergei-skripal/

 

Under its previous ownership, The Express would never have reported such a story in such a detailed, sober way. This scoop represents its first baby steps towards journalistic rehabilitation (though until I've seen a lot more in such vein, I ain't linking directly to it).

 

It's mad how people who'd scoff at little green men at Roswell are buying these unfounded opinions on everything else where there is reasoned and clear points if a small amount of reading credible sources are looked at.

 

This goes both ways on all matters.

[shaun.lawson]

41 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Correct. And by the way, we have evidence. Our intelligence intercepted it. I'm surprised it's not been reported more. 

 

http://observer.com/2018/04/british-spies-have-evidence-that-russia-poisoned-sergei-skripal/

 

Under its previous ownership, The Express would never have reported such a story in such a detailed, sober way. This scoop represents its first baby steps towards journalistic rehabilitation (though until I've seen a lot more in such vein, I ain't linking directly to it).

 

Wait - sorry, the above should be on the Russian thread!  Sorry everyone. 

[shaun.lawson]

 

[deesidejambo]

6 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I can only assume he spends a lot of time pashed.

 

He should get an account on KB.