Arrests for racial abuse at Tynecastle

[HMFC86]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I disagree. It's analogous to being suspended from a workplace when an allegation occurs.

 

Now that they have been cleared they should be able to resume their seats and recompensed for any games they missed.

I mean it’s a bit immaterial anyway seeing as they didn’t actually miss any games but think it’s a bit hasty myself 

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, HMFC86 said:

I mean it’s a bit immaterial anyway seeing as they didn’t actually miss any games but think it’s a bit hasty myself 

 

Probably missed the opportunity to apply for Hibs tickets.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Probably missed the opportunity to apply for Hibs tickets.

Fair point. Perhaps the club should "effort" a couple of comps being made available to them as a more effective "apology".

[HMFC86]

3 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Probably missed the opportunity to apply for Hibs tickets.

Yeah true, which does I think show that banning people based on the allegations is a bit hasty. 

[iainmac]

So does this mean that Section N is no longer under threat of closure now? 

[Uche Gang]

20 minutes ago, kila said:

I thought there was two incidents? One before kick off, and one during the game. The one during the game being the Kickback song that was misheard/interpreted as 'black' or something.

 

 

 

I have my doubts about the pre match ‘incident’ I think all of this is to with the ‘stand up if you hate kickback’ song.

[davemclaren]

22 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I disagree. It's analogous to being suspended from a workplace when an allegation occurs.

 

Now that they have been cleared they should be able to resume their seats and recompensed for any games they missed.

Yip. 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

At least they can now focus on the sectarian bile from the same section.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Sexton Hardcastle said:

At least they can now focus on the sectarian bile from the same section.

This makes no sense. This incident has no bearing on any sectarian bile.

[milky_26]

8 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

Yeah true, which does I think show that banning people based on the allegations is a bit hasty. 

i disagree, think about it if it happened the other way round and they had been found (and were) guilty. They would have taken hibs tickets from more deserving and non-racist fans. 

 

geoff nailed it, in a work environment depending upon the allegations a suspension would be expected and only once the allegations had been proved true or false would any final action occur. That action being suspension lifted or sacked.

[Big Slim Stylee]

26 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

I do think there is a real issue with football fans being classed guilty until proven innocent. No danger should they have been banned until the full facts were known. 

 

Assume the Motherwell manager will be apologising too. As well as the media and I’m sure Budge will apologise, she has said as much in a recent interview.

Unfortunately getting lifted for the heinous crime of merely being a football fan in the wrong place at the wrong time had been going on for years.

[Sexton Hardcastle]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

This makes no sense. This incident has no bearing on any sectarian bile.

They wasted time and resources on this ‘witch-hunt’. No one can deny the other glaring issue. Not just pertaining to that section I suppose.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

They wasted time and resources on this ‘witch-hunt’. No one can deny the other glaring issue. Not just pertaining to that section I suppose.

How much "sectarian bile" happens at a Motherwell home game?

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i disagree, think about it if it happened the other way round and they had been found (and were) guilty. They would have taken hibs tickets from more deserving and non-racist fans. 

 

geoff nailed it, in a work environment depending upon the allegations a suspension would be expected and only once the allegations had been proved true or false would any final action occur. That action being suspension lifted or sacked.

They aren't in a work environment so it's not relevant. They banned two fans on hearsay and it's bullshit.

[HMFC86]

4 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i disagree, think about it if it happened the other way round and they had been found (and were) guilty. They would have taken hibs tickets from more deserving and non-racist fans. 

 

geoff nailed it, in a work environment depending upon the allegations a suspension would be expected and only once the allegations had been proved true or false would any final action occur. That action being suspension lifted or sacked.

Entitled to your opinion but I disagree mate.

 

I don’t think someone being suspended from work is the same thing. We are talking about an alleged criminal offence, of which they have been found to be innocent. I do not think that anybody should have their life restricted based on mere allegations.

[HMFC86]

8 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

Unfortunately getting lifted for the heinous crime of merely being a football fan in the wrong place at the wrong time had been going on for years.

Yup unfortunately so

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

They aren't in a work environment so it's not relevant. They banned two fans on hearsay and it's bullshit.

It wasn't hearsay - there was alleged video evidence. Obviously, Kickback isn't that well known apparently!

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

It wasn't hearsay - there was alleged video evidence. Obviously, Kickback isn't that well known apparently!

 

The Motherwell manager seen it. Would be interesting to see what he watched.

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

It wasn't hearsay - there was alleged video evidence. Obviously, Kickback isn't that well known apparently!

 

Video evidence that either didn't exist or didn't contain what was alleged. Hearsay in my book but maybe my definition is incorrect.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

4 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

Entitled to your opinion but I disagree mate.

 

I don’t think someone being suspended from work is the same thing. We are talking about an alleged criminal offence, of which they have been found to be innocent. I do not think that anybody should have their life restricted based on mere allegations.

People getting suspended from their jobs for allegations against them is fairly common, no?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

 

Video evidence that either didn't exist or didn't contain what was alleged. Hearsay in my book but maybe my definition is incorrect.

That's my point. People watched it and heard something "different" probably because of confirmation bias after being told of the allegation prior to viewing.

[XB52]

6 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

People getting suspended from their jobs for allegations against them is fairly common, no?

It is indeed. On the latest news, assuming it's true, the club should come out and say the guys bans are gone and a full apology should come from Motherwell. Headline news as well in all the media if course

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Just now, XB52 said:

It is indeed. On the latest news, assuming it's true, the club should come out and say the guys bans are gone and a full apology should come from Motherwell. Headline news as well in all the media if course

Throw in a couple of free derby tickets. Job done.

[HMFC86]

9 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

People getting suspended from their jobs for allegations against them is fairly common, no?

I don’t know tbh. Regardless though I don’t see how someone doing something wrong at work is comparable.

[allystrachan]

We got pelters for this in the media so we should really make sure the media also tell the truth about the result of the incedent. Would also be nice to hear from the Motherwell manager again.

[XB52]

2 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

Throw in a couple of free derby tickets. Job done.

Would be a nice touch

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Singing about Kickback though!

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, allystrachan said:

We got pelters for this in the media so we should really make sure the media also tell the truth about the result of the incedent. Would also be nice to hear from the Motherwell manager again.

Is it officially confirmed anywhere?

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

6 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

I don’t know tbh. Regardless though I don’t see how someone doing something wrong at work is comparable.

I can see the connection, like it of not they're representing the club. It's a hard one but don't think the club did anything wrong here. Give them a couple of derby tickets as an apology.

[jambocub]

1 hour ago, Sooperstar said:

Trial by Kickback.

Trial by numpties  it's baffling how many fans had the 2 guys down as guilty without any evidence

[Big Slim Stylee]

19 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Video evidence that either didn't exist or didn't contain what was alleged. Hearsay in my book but maybe my definition is incorrect.

Absolutely positive it exists. Just won't be the first time video evidence is deemed "inconclusive". Very difficult when it comes down to "you're saying that - no I'm not I'm saying this."

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

Absolutely positive it exists. Just won't be the first time video evidence is deemed "inconclusive". Very difficult when it comes down to "you're saying that - no I'm not I'm saying this."

 

Indeed and Ann Budge said as much earlier this week.

[Seymour M Hersh]

51 minutes ago, iainmac said:

So does this mean that Section N is no longer under threat of closure now? 

 

Don't know they are still standing with malice aforethought. 

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I disagree. It's analogous to being suspended from a workplace when an allegation occurs.

 

Now that they have been cleared they should be able to resume their seats and recompensed for any games they missed.

Correct

[Jamboelite]

19 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

I don’t know tbh. Regardless though I don’t see how someone doing something wrong at work is comparable.

When an allegation is made usually suspending an individual is the first course of action while its being investigated, the comparison was made with workplaces as its somewhere that has a code of conduct just like Tynecastle. 

[Nookie Bear]

27 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

Absolutely positive it exists. Just won't be the first time video evidence is deemed "inconclusive". Very difficult when it comes down to "you're saying that - no I'm not I'm saying this."

 

Didn’t stop Robinson running to the press telling everyone how shocked he was. Ends up on Sky Sports and all over the UK press but I won’t hold my breath for an apology. 

 

 

[JyTees]

So all that shit about an incident before the game and a different one during the game was...shit? Surely not?

 

It's almost like some folk wanted this to have happened. ?

 

Are you there Frank?

[HMFC86]

31 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

I can see the connection, like it of not they're representing the club. It's a hard one but don't think the club did anything wrong here. Give them a couple of derby tickets as an apology.

They are representing the club but I don’t think that makes a difference.

 

This could easily happen to any one of us. If you shout something at the football all it takes is someone to say you were racist or sectarian & you could get suspended. Are people seriously saying that they’d be OK with that? 

 

Im not meaning to have a go at the club here, but I honestly think it could have been handled a lot better. The club should also be looking after their own fans. If people are proved to be racist or sectarian by all means throw the book at them. I’m all for that being punished to the highest degree possible, but I completely disagree with the guilty till proven innocent manner.

[soonbe110]

Just cause charges are dropped doent mean the offence didn’t take place. Could just be that the Proc Fiscal doesnt have enough evidence to proceed. Our stadium manager spoke about how difficult to prosecute fans actually is at the AGM this week. 

[kila]

2 minutes ago, HMFC86 said:

They are representing the club but I don’t think that makes a difference.

 

This could easily happen to any one of us. If you shout something at the football all it takes is someone to say you were racist or sectarian & you could get suspended. Are people seriously saying that they’d be OK with that? 

 

Im not meaning to have a go at the club here, but I honestly think it could have been handled a lot better. The club should also be looking after their own fans. If people are proved to be racist or sectarian by all means throw the book at them. I’m all for that being punished to the highest degree possible, but I completely disagree with the guilty till proven innocent manner.

 

In this case the individuals were charged by the police, it wasn't just someone telling the club and the club reacting without police involvement. The club would be reckless to not have set an indefinite ban while they wait for the case to be heard by the authorities.

 

 

[Morph]

Oh dear

 

At the very least Motherwell should be publicly apologising for getting it wrong.  It’s probably just an unfortunate misunderstanding but for the manager to come out and say he’s seen the video and it’s out of order etc is out of order in itself.  You shouldn’t be making statements like that publicly if you’re not 100% sure of the evidence and clearly the evidence didn’t show any racist shouting. 

 

I stood there last season and there is definitely racist shouts pretty much every match, funnily enough usually at our own players and was pretty shite to see our own fans saying Ismas family were lying when they spoke out publicly.  I refuse to believe it’s as difficult as Budge is making out to single these folk out though, the stewards sit and listen to it happening so not sure why they can’t sctually just do their job and point them out to whoever.

 

N is an important part of tynecastle though, it gives a lot of people the matchday experience they want unfortunately there’s a handful of fans who take the piss.  Still think it’s going to end up getting shut as it seems Hearts have no intentions of singling out the trouble and are just going to punish everyone. 

[RDC1]

Folk still desperate for this to be true. Sad. 

 

[Morph]

1 hour ago, HMFC86 said:

I don’t know tbh. Regardless though I don’t see how someone doing something wrong at work is comparable.

How is it not comparable?  Hearts is a business and will have similar procedures to any other but they also have to deal with supporters as well as employees. 

 

You can’t just tell a steward someone shouted something you didn’t like and they’ll get a lifetime ban.  It was escalated because they were arrested and charged, that’s a lot more serious than a “he said this” and the club done what any other business would do when someone affiliated with it is arrested.  They will be unbanned and I would hope the club would give them something as a token of apology.  

[HMFC86]

7 minutes ago, kila said:

 

In this case the individuals were charged by the police, it wasn't just someone telling the club and the club reacting without police involvement. The club would be reckless to not have set an indefinite ban while they wait for the case to be heard by the authorities.

 

 

As I say I disagree. Whether it was reported to the club or the police I think is immaterial. The point is they were innocent and shouldn’t be treated otherwise. 

 

Anyway I’m at the pub for a few before heading to Pittodrie so I’ll bow out here. Have a good weekend.

[The People's Chimp]

1 hour ago, Gavsy Van Gaverson said:

 

The Motherwell manager seen it. Would be interesting to see what he watched.

 

Hes not going to know about kickback so it’s understandable that he misheard what was sung.  

[Pheasant Plucker]

Anyone know any pubs in Benidorm showing the game??

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, Pheasant Plucker said:

Anyone know any pubs in Benidorm showing the game??

 

 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Pheasant Plucker said:

Anyone know any pubs in Benidorm showing the game??

 

No but steer clear of Jumping Jacks. Full of vermin.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

 

[Alex Kintner]

50 minutes ago, JyTees said:

So all that shit about an incident before the game and a different one during the game was...shit? Surely not?

 

It's almost like some folk wanted this to have happened. ?

 

Are you there Frank?

 

Right here mate. It happened ??