Tommy Robinson

[Beast Boy]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Prejudice is different. I have many. Just not racial prejudice.

 

Racism is a form of prejudice. Pre judging someone based upon their ethnicity. 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

6 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Racism is a form of prejudice. Pre judging someone based upon their ethnicity. 

 

 

 

 

Yup.

 

I have lots of prejudice. Alarmingly so infact. Race has never featured however. For example when I see a homeless person I usually see it as being their fault. Obviously this is not true for all but I do look at it like that and it sucks. Lots of geniune cases out there.

Edited November 16, 2018 by i8hibsh

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

You’ve already been trolled to shreds man, attempting to get bites now is a forlorn quest. ? 

 

 

See I actually have a bit of respect for someone who can state that. Can’t remember the exact thread where this happened, but it does ring a bell. Might have even been called “Are you racist?”

 

Aye that's the one. Good thread if I remember correctly with some grown-up discussion and refreshing honesty. ?

 

9 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Then there’s the third group, the ones who just don’t give a **** and exploit people’s prejudices in order to feather their own nests, like Robinson and farage.

 

Cold blooded sociopaths hiding behind a veneer of respectability. We've seen their type before.

[Bazzas right boot]

57 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I think you will be hard pushed to find someone who actually argues Hitler's case. He was all those things and it is a non argument as not 1 person in 8 billion could or would argue to the contrary.

 

 

Aye, but in 1920 he was just a guy with an opinion. 

He just put Germans first, that's all.... At the start. 

 

He was given a platform  then things developed. 

 

He didn't start with gas Chambers and invasions, he started with rallies and xenophobic speeches. He even wrote a book and spent time in jail. 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

Aye, but in 1920 he was just a guy with an opinion. 

He just put Germans first, that's all.... At the start. 

 

He was given a platform  then things developed. 

 

He didn't start with gas Chambers and invasions, he started with rallies and xenophobic speeches. He even wrote a book and spent time in jail. 

 

 

Putting the people of a country first should be a demand to a president. Never sure why people use this as a negative. I assume you are liking Hitler to Trump and TR?

[Beast Boy]

9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Aye that's the one. Good thread if I remember correctly with some grown-up discussion and refreshing honesty. ?

 

 

Cold blooded sociopaths hiding behind a veneer of respectability. We've seen their type before.

 

 

They come from all over the political spectrum. Often the biggest problem is that human nature drives people to seek revenge. Crime and punishment, or punishment v rehabilitation. It’s in our nature, and when wronged, parity rarely cuts the mustard. Wronged people want revenge. That applies to people from any group. One of the reasons why social equality between communities with a history of conflict is so difficult to achieve, is that when a group who have been persecuted are liberated or emancipated, they are not happy with that parity, and they feel the people who oppressed them should be made to experience the same hardships as they did. In turn this gets the backs up of the former oppressors, who point to the actions of those who now have equal rights and they claim that they are inherently bad. Round and round we go.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Glib and Shameless Crier

[WageThief]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Yup.

 

I have lots of prejudice. Alarmingly so infact. Race has never featured however. For example when I see a homeless person I usually see it as being their fault. Obviously this is not true for all but I do look at it like that and it sucks. Lots of geniune cases out there.

 

You aren't actually that right-wing in fairness.  By comparison, even a moderate Tory would throw any homeless person they see in the nearest river.  Or at least think about doing it.

 

I can think of another prejudice you have.  When you see TR you get all stiff downstairs and it prejudices your thinking.

 

 

[Sarah O]

Maybe the SSO could organise an anti Tommy walk to an upcoming game?

[i8hibsh]

10 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Maybe the SSO could organise an anti Tommy walk to an upcoming game?

 

 

Tragic.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Tragic.

 

?

[Beast Boy]

13 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Maybe the SSO could organise an anti Tommy walk to an upcoming game?

 

I think that’s a really good idea. Especially as the TR guys appear to be quite cosy with members of the last SS. Be a great way of distancing themselves from something MBT and HMFC want nothing to do with.

[Mark M]

19 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Maybe the SSO could organise an anti Tommy walk to an upcoming game?

 

Would you be protesting against people like Ensaf Badawi ( look her up) and other ex Muslims who fully support TR? Should right minded Hearts fans explain to her what she clearly doesn't  understand? 

[Beast Boy]

24 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Putting the people of a country first should be a demand to a president. Never sure why people use this as a negative. I assume you are liking Hitler to Trump and TR?

 

Dont know why I’m continuing to indulge you, but Hitler’s definition of “his people” was precisely the ****ing problem. 

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

Would you be protesting against people like Ensaf Badawi ( look her up) and other ex Muslims who fully support TR? Should right minded Hearts fans explain to her what she clearly doesn't  understand? 

 

Mid she turned up at Tynie with her circus in tow, or was fancying about in front of a McCrae’s Battalion flag, then aye. I certainly would.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Glib and Shameless Crier

[Mark M]

 

1 minute ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Mid she turned up at Tynie with her circus in tow, or was fancying about in front of a McCrae’s Battalion flag, then aye. I certainly would.

 

Oh ffs, you really walked into that one. Please do yourself a favour and look up who she is. 

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

 

Oh ffs, you really walked into that one. Please do yourself a favour and look up who she is. 

 

Assuming you are talking about Ensaf Haidar, then no, I don’t need to look her up. I would not want her using Hearts or Tynecastle, or the MBT for her own means. It’s got **** all to do with our football club.

[ri Alban]

41 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Putting the people of a country first should be a demand to a president. Never sure why people use this as a negative. I assume you are liking Hitler to Trump and TR?

He put Germans first who were living in other peoples countries. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by ri Alban

[Bob Loblaw]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Great honesty as always but you probably are not. People have changed the meaning to suit their agenda. Don't let them make you think that. 

 

There's nowt honest about you, you are being deliberately mainpulative in your views. You frame it as "people don't want to hear it" , in the same way others with equally horrible views do. 

 

You asked people for a quote proving TR was racist, I provided one and you said it was "selective".  You asked for proof of him supporting and making light of Breivik, it was provided and you dismissed it as propoganda.  See if he wasn't embarrassed by it, or knew it was potentially damaging, why did he lie about what he said?

 

You then produced a list of reprehensible liars as people you admire and follow. There's a reason people are losing patience with your schtick. 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, ali_jambo said:

This is like having a debate with a fence post.

I Honestly believe the guy has mental problems and is best ignored

[Mark M]

25 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Assuming you are talking about Ensaf Haidar, then no, I don’t need to look her up. I would not want her using Hearts or Tynecastle, or the MBT for her own means. It’s got **** all to do with our football club.

 

At the start of the thread I said that regardless of my feelings towards him and the larger issue Hearts should avoid being politicised. 

 

I'd hope this sentiment remains when  LGBT pressure groups are pushing rainbow laces or displays at games when transgender participation in sport is an explicitly contentious  and political issue. I doubt it though. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Mark M

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

I said at the start of the thread I said exactly that the club should be non political and regardless of my feelings towards him and the larger issue Hearts should avoid being politicised. 

 

I'd hope this sentiment remains consistent and people make the same noises when  LGBT pressure groups are pushing rainbow laces or displays at games when transgender participation in sport is an explicitly contentious  and political issue. I doubt it though. 

 

Theres a big difference between promoting tolerance in a mixed community, and preaching division and intolerance. 

[Bob Loblaw]

3 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Theres a big difference between promoting tolerance in a mixed community, and preaching division and intolerance. 

Not to some people.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Bob Loblaw said:

Not to some people.

 

Indeed. I’d hope and expect HMFC recognise the difference though.

[Mark M]

7 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Theres a big difference between promoting tolerance in a mixed community, and preaching division and intolerance. 

 

See, anyone can use positive or negative  language to frame their political views as the moral ones and the other the evil. For your 'inclusiveness' V 'prejudice' see 'patriotism' v 'traitors' from the other side. I see including biological  men in woman's sports as incredibly exclusive - ie a woman is not getting to participate or win a medal. 

 

And surprise, surprise the SPFL have already ticked this 'inclusive' box because there is no cost and only progressive points to gain 

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-support-rainbow-laces-campaign

Edited November 16, 2018 by Mark M

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Mark M said:

 

See, anyone can use positive or negative  language to frame their political views as the moral ones and the other the evil. For your 'inclusiveness' V 'prejudice' see 'patriotism' v 'traitors' from the other side. I see including biological  men in woman's sports as incredibly exclusive - ie a woman is not getting to participate or win a medal. 

 

And surprise, surprise the SPFL have already ticked this 'inclusive' box because there is no cost and only progressive points to gain 

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-support-rainbow-laces-campaign

 

No, that’s not the case here at all. There are LGBT people in the community from which we compete for supporters. They face prejudices and discrimination, so it’s nice to make them feel welcome. If LGBT people were as a group trying to oppress other people, then they would not be welcome. You don’t see the difference?

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

1 minute ago, Mark M said:

 

See, anyone can use positive or negative  language to frame their political views as the moral ones and the other the evil. For your 'inclusiveness' V 'prejudice' see 'patriotism' v 'traitors' from the other side. I see including biological  men in woman's sports as incredibly exclusive - ie a woman is not getting to participate or win a medal. 

 

And surprise, surprise the SPFL have already ticked this 'inclusive' box because there is no cost and only progressive points to gain 

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-support-rainbow-laces-campaign

 

I think you're having the wrong argument here.  There is a world of difference between a political agenda of the right or left and then campaigns such as rainbow laces which is non political and draws support from all areas of the spectrum. Are we to assume that you're not a fan of the rainbow laces campaign?

 

Incidentally, don't you think it's a mark of a civilized society that looking at things through a progressive lens is preferred as opposed to one that wants to stay in the "good old days".  

[Beast Boy]

13 minutes ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

 

I think you're having the wrong argument here.  There is a world of difference between a political agenda of the right or left and then campaigns such as rainbow laces which is non political and draws support from all areas of the spectrum. Are we to assume that you're not a fan of the rainbow laces campaign?

 

Incidentally, don't you think it's a mark of a civilized society that looking at things through a progressive lens is preferred as opposed to one that wants to stay in the "good old days".  

 

Hear hear.

[i8hibsh]

41 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

There's nowt honest about you, you are being deliberately mainpulative in your views. You frame it as "people don't want to hear it" , in the same way others with equally horrible views do. 

 

You asked people for a quote proving TR was racist, I provided one and you said it was "selective".  You asked for proof of him supporting and making light of Breivik, it was provided and you dismissed it as propoganda.  See if he wasn't embarrassed by it, or knew it was potentially damaging, why did he lie about what he said?

 

You then produced a list of reprehensible liars as people you admire and follow. There's a reason people are losing patience with your schtick. 

 

 

They are liars in your opinion.

 

Sorry, I have to ask. How does that video prove TR is racist?

[Bob Loblaw]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

They are liars in your opinion.

 

Sorry, I have to ask. How does that video prove TR is racist?

I never said it did, way to try and deflect though.  

 

The quote I provided does though.

[Mark M]

55 minutes ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

 

I think you're having the wrong argument here.  There is a world of difference between a political agenda of the right or left and then campaigns such as rainbow laces which is non political and draws support from all areas of the spectrum. Are we to assume that you're not a fan of the rainbow laces campaign?

 

Incidentally, don't you think it's a mark of a civilized society that looking at things through a progressive lens is preferred as opposed to one that wants to stay in the "good old days".  

 

I'm definitely against the Rainbow laces campaign when it comes with the assumption that biological males should participate in sport. Especially if it means we are meant to uncritically accept male cage fighters beating women up or male cyclists winning female World Championships. And this is part of a larger 'don't questions our happy inclusive rainbows' culture  that results in male rapists in female prisons.

 

I also don't accept everything is actually progressive just because it uses the language of progressivism. Today for example two leading members of the Khmer  Rouge were convicted of genocide. As part of their defence they pleaded that they were fighting for 'social justice.'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3452925/Top-Khmer-Rouge-leader-tells-court-fought-social-justice.html

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Mark M

[i8hibsh]

26 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

I never said it did, way to try and deflect though.  

 

The quote I provided does though.

 

I don't think for a second TR has never said anything racist. Who hasn't? I certainly have in my life and sure I will again. To say something that is wrong or laughing at a sick joke is not exactly life defining.  I do not hold negative opinions on someone based on their race. I certainly see no race as superior. I love, like and hate people based on their character. 

 

I am quite familiar with TR's views and work. I do not see a racist. I see anger and hatred. The same anger and hatred I hold. Not anger and hatred for any race but an ideology.

[Bob Loblaw]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I don't think for a second TR has never said anything racist. Who hasn't? I certainly have in my life and sure I will again. To say something that is wrong or laughing at a sick joke is not exactly life defining.  I do not hold negative opinions on someone based on their race. I certainly see no race as superior. I love, like and hate people based on their character. 

 

I am quite familiar with TR's views and work. I do not see a racist. I see anger and hatred. The same anger and hatred I hold. Not anger and hatred for any race but an ideology.

Again, shifting the goalposts. 

 

You bash on mate, I'm done.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Putting the people of a country first should be a demand to a president. Never sure why people use this as a negative. I assume you are liking Hitler to Trump and TR?

 

 

Time will tell?

 

Thankfully, there is no hyperinflation, no massive economic depression like the scale in the late 20's and we now have social media so folk like TR will only go so far before being found out as a fraud (again) befote slipping away into history with no repercussions. 

 

Trump, not so sure. Get back to me in ten years, hopefully there hasn't been a world war. 

 

Hitler was one bad decision from conquering Europe in 1943.

In the 20's he was a young, angry man with an opinion. 

Tbh, unlike TR, Hitler at least served in a war and put his life on the line for his country so at least could he could walk the walk-so to speak, unlike trump, tr and the like of Farrage who imo are cowards by nature. 

 

Be an interesting comparison v the time scales of each individual, tho. 

 

Whatever it is, HMFC has no place for the agendas or any other political agandas. 

 

 

 

 

[ShedBoy]

22 hours ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

ISIS, yeah they pick targets based on Tommy Robinson"s twitter. Ffs. 

 

Yeah, they just got lucky that night in Manchester eh? Nothing to do with an organised event with mass numbers. ****in hell

[ShedBoy]

22 hours ago, ali_jambo said:

Yeah mate. Absolutely spot on, apart from, y'know, the statistic which it's based on being provably incorrect.

 

https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

 

And another complete fiction. There are no 'no go areas' and no 'sharia states' anywhere in the UK. This was pushed by Robinson with help from useful idiots and bigots in the US.

 

It's a fantasy dreamt up by racists.

There are some Sharia courts, which mostly seem to give advice on aspects of religious adherence and family matters. (Source: Full Fact)

 

 

Ok mate, we will agree to disagree. However if you’d care to join me in Rochdale one weekend I can take you on a tour if you like?

[Dawnrazor]

15 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

 

Ok mate, we will agree to disagree. However if you’d care to join me in Rochdale one weekend I can take you on a tour if you like?

Or Girlington and a few estates in West Bradford. 

[ShedBoy]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Or Girlington and a few estates in West Bradford. 

 

It amazes me that scotland appears to be so untouched by this? It must be bliss? I really hope the ostrich removes its napper from the sand sharpish..........

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

 

It amazes me that scotland appears to be so untouched by this? It must be bliss? I really hope the ostrich removes its napper from the sand sharpish..........

Funnily enough I was speaking to a mate of mine today, he was a beat copper in Bradford for about 7/8 years before moving back to Settle, he'll tell you that there are areas he was advised not to go into without prior knowledge of the local "Elders"! He'll tell you what some areas are like, bits of Shipley, Baildon, Keighley etc. 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 hours ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

 

Incidentally, don't you think it's a mark of a civilized society that looking at things through a progressive lens is preferred as opposed to one that wants to stay in the "good old days".  

 

And therein lies the rub.

 

[ShedBoy]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Funnily enough I was speaking to a mate of mine today, he was a beat copper in Bradford for about 7/8 years before moving back to Settle, he'll tell you that there are areas he was advised not to go into without prior knowledge of the local "Elders"! He'll tell you what some areas are like, bits of Shipley, Baildon, Keighley etc. 

 

Absolutely believe this, without doubt. I’d love to live in what seems to be, amongst a few, an extremely naive bubble in Scotland. No wonder they want independance.........

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, Mark M said:

 

I also don't accept everything is actually progressive just because it uses the language of progressivism.

 

Nobody on this thread is asking you to.

 

Critical thinking shouldn't be abandoned in any case and under any circumstances.

 

Not that I think you would. 

[Inchgarvie]

On 15/11/2018 at 04:39, Dirty Deeds said:

Why are those with Far Right political views so keen to associate themselves with football fans?

 

Tommy Robinson has nothing to do with Hearts and it's deeply offensive to me to witness others try make a link to his politics and our football club.

 

This thread needs moved to the Shed or deleted and anyone wanting to voice approval of his views should go somewhere other than Tynecastle.

Simple, the links are already there with loyalist groups who bring Union Flags & Red Hand of Ulster Flags 

[Inchgarvie]

On 14/11/2018 at 23:19, redm said:

Urgh, having that flag behind them is the most repulsive desecration of the fine name of McCrae’s Battalion. Wonder who’s going to break it to them that McCrae’s actually fought to save us from the poison of people just like Robinson? 

 

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. 

You are correct and MBT will be fuming but anyone who has actually analysed what these groups are all about will learn that this is what attracts these groups. Anything to do with the Brirish Empire, British Army, Any excuse to fly a Union Flag, and of course Remembrance. Loyalists groups are the same and are all linked they are really all the the same. Time decent Hearts fans worked out the connections and realise that we have a problem. 

 

But then again, how many times do we hear Hearts will say they are just daft laddies or they’re not really Hearts fans. 

 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Inchgarvie said:

You are correct and MBT will be fuming but anyone who has actually analysed what these groups are all about will learn that this is what attracts these groups. Anything to do with the Brirish Empire, British Army, Any excuse to fly a Union Flag, and of course Remembrance. Loyalists groups are the same and are all linked they are really all the the same. Time decent Hearts fans worked out the connections and realise that we have a problem. 

 

But then again, how many times do we hear Hearts will say they are just daft laddies or they’re not really Hearts fans. 

 

 

Calling shite here.

[Inchgarvie]

10 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Calling shite here.

 

10 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Calling shite here.

Yer just a daft wee laddie ?

[Dirty Deeds]

30 minutes ago, Inchgarvie said:

Simple, the links are already there with loyalist groups who bring Union Flags & Red Hand of Ulster Flags 

Sadly you are correct 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

No, that’s not the case here at all. There are LGBT people in the community from which we compete for supporters. They face prejudices and discrimination, so it’s nice to make them feel welcome. If LGBT people were as a group trying to oppress other people, then they would not be welcome. You don’t see the difference?

 

If you need to explain this. The debate is pointless. 

 

Really is. 

 

Good try tho?

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Inchgarvie said:

 

Yer just a daft wee laddie ?

 

Uhm ah aye.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, ShedBoy said:

 

Ok mate, we will agree to disagree. However if you’d care to join me in Rochdale one weekend I can take you on a tour if you like?

This has nothing to do with you mate but since you mentioned Rochdale and I was mentioning a Muslim guy who’s name escaped me  yesterday but I’ve just seen him appear on Facebook. I’ve listened to him talking about the grooming gangs and he doesn’t miss and hit the wall. He obviously can though for obvious reasons. I’m sure I read somewhere that Nawaz was a former extremist himself when he was younger too. He speaks a lot of sense anytime I’ve listened to him. 

I also agree about people up here just not knowing what life is like in some English cities. 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, ShedBoy said:

 

It amazes me that scotland appears to be so untouched by this? It must be bliss? I really hope the ostrich removes its napper from the sand sharpish..........

There's a lot of Muslim areas in Scotland, but unlike you I don't become all paranoid and defensive when I'm walking about these areas. They're Scottish as far as I'm concerned.