Champions League 2018/19

[kila]

Don't think that is a penalty either

 

A little bit of shirt pulling but attacker takes a dive

[Sooperstar]

1 minute ago, ZanderMIM said:

Of course I did? So did the referee and so did the BT sport referee? 

Yep. You're all wrong.

[kila]

If we see what the ref sees, then all he saw was a few slow motion frames going back and fourth. How does that help? Why not see it at real time speed or better let the ref actually control the footage and speed while making a decision?

 

 

[ZanderMIM]

Just now, Sooperstar said:

Yep. You're all wrong.

Fair enough 

[ZanderMIM]

6 minutes ago, kila said:

Don't think that is a penalty either

 

A little bit of shirt pulling but attacker takes a dive

I agree, Not enough for the player to hit the ground after seeing it but can see why ref gave it

Edited March 6, 2019 by ZanderMIM

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

It’s a tough one...however, the defender watches the ball all the way in and then turns his head away at the last second. With that movement his arm should follow...it doesn’t and he leaves his arm in...

 

Basically 

[Taffin]

Just now, Sooperstar said:

Yep. You're all wrong.

 

I just can't see how the incident ticks the boxes of the rule to make it a penalty. Even in super slow motion. I really can't .

[Central Belt 1874]

9 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Anyone who doesn't pure love var is a dinosaur lol 

 

It doesn't work in football, too much can happen in one phase of play for it to work like it does in other sports. Is the 'clear and obvious' rule still in effect this week or do they just change their minds when they feel like it? I'm pretty much convinced now that it's only being introduced for dramatic purposes. 

 

The last few weeks have shown just how poor VAR is at the moment, refs still getting it wrong, players confused and time wasted. 

Goal line technology, aye, VAR at the moment, nut. 

[Geoff the Mince]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

It's not my theory, it's the rule. It states it must be deliberate and they must be moved towards the ball. 

 

Why would you have your hands up if not moving them towards the ball? His are in a totally normal position for someone jumping with his back turned.

 

 

Correct .

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Porto getting a VAR pen here.

 

 

[DETTY29]

4 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Anyone who doesn't pure love var is a dinosaur lol 

 

It doesn't work in football, too much can happen in one phase of play for it to work like it does in other sports. Is the 'clear and obvious' rule still in effect this week or do they just change their minds when they feel like it? I'm pretty much convinced now that it's only being introduced for dramatic purposes. 

IFAB, FIFA, UEFA determine how the laws should be interpreted.  And they change each year.

 

It's up to the wider football community to make a proactive effort to understand the changes.  Or chalkenge them back.

 

Even on this thread folk are still talking about deliberate hand ball.

 

I'm not a kick in the backside off 50, and am struggling to recall any deliberate hand balls in the box despite having seen hundreds / thousands of hand ball offences with penalties given.

[Sooperstar]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I just can't see how the incident ticks the boxes of the rule to make it a penalty. Even in super slow motion. I really can't .

Going to start walking up to refs in the street and punching them in the face. Get a mate to film it in slow mo on their phone. Show it back to the ref 'look mate, you had plenty chance to get your face out the way. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR FACE.'

[Thaw]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

IFAB, FIFA, UEFA determine how the laws should be interpreted.  And they change each year.

 

It's up to the wider football community to make a proactive effort to understand the changes.  Or chalkenge them back.

 

Even on this thread folk are still talking about deliberate hand ball.

 

I'm not a kick in the backside off 50, and am struggling to recall any deliberate hand balls in the box despite having seen hundreds / thousands of hand ball offences with penalties given.

 

Jordan McGhee? Luis Suarez?

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

IFAB, FIFA, UEFA determine how the laws should be interpreted.  And they change each year.

 

It's up to the wider football community to make a proactive effort to understand the changes.  Or chalkenge them back.

 

Even on this thread folk are still talking about deliberate hand ball.

 

I'm not a kick in the backside off 50, and am struggling to recall any deliberate hand balls in the box despite having seen hundreds / thousands of hand ball offences with penalties given.

 

 

Maybe because it is explicitly written in the laws of the game.

 

If that isn't the rule, then take it out of the rules. No?

Edited March 6, 2019 by Taffin

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, kila said:

If we see what the ref sees, then all he saw was a few slow motion frames going back and fourth. How does that help? Why not see it at real time speed or better let the ref actually control the footage and speed while making a decision?

 

 

I think this is a very fair comment, but more to determine if the ref has made a horror error or an understandable one.

Edited March 6, 2019 by DETTY29

[Thaw]

Somewhat refreshing to see some slightly less predictable Champions League quarter-finalists than usual, in any case.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Thaw

[Taffin]

Just now, Sooperstar said:

Going to start walking up to refs in the street and punching them in the face. Get a mate to film it in slow mo on their phone. Show it back to the ref 'look mate, you had plenty chance to get your face out the way. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR FACE.'

 

?? Face to hand. Play on.

[Mikey1874]

 

[Sooperstar]

Here's another one! Roma this time...

[DETTY29]

Just now, Thaw said:

 

Jordan McGhee? Luis Suarez?

Forgotten about McGhee's brain fart.

 

But it is in the very, very low percentages.

[kila]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

Ok seeing that on repeat from that angle a penalty is correct. We saw unhelpful replays on the TV which seemed to focus more on the offside

[Sooperstar]

Not given.

[kila]

Well the CL isn't boring, that's for sure

 

 

[Thaw]

1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

Forgotten about McGhee's brain fart.

 

But it is in the very, very low percentages.

 

Agree with this up to a point. There seems to be a non-trivial difference between what is written in the laws, and how the majority of referees apply them.

[viva hate]

Surely that was a penalty to Roma? Clearly clipped. Commentators saying it wasn't deliberate. 

[Tennant's 6's]

1 minute ago, kila said:

Well the CL isn't boring, that's for sure

 

 

First time in a while that it's not been predictable. Some surprising results.

VAR is a bit annoying, but adds to the intrigue  

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Maybe because it is explicitly written in the laws of the game.

 

If that isn't the rule, then take it out of the rules. No?

Fair, but thats not the way it works and hasn't for well, a long time.

 

 

[Boab]

1 minute ago, viva hate said:

Surely that was a penalty to Roma? Clearly clipped. Commentators saying it wasn't deliberate. 

 

Close call. Maybe correct from the ref.

Roma out but Porto will play two more games...max !

[VALDOS]

Porto providing someone with a bye into the semis.

[indianajones]

3 minutes ago, viva hate said:

Surely that was a penalty to Roma? Clearly clipped. Commentators saying it wasn't deliberate. 

 

Penalty for me. 

 

Doesnt matter if it was by accident. 

 

VAR gone and made a fool of itself tonight. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

20 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

It's not my theory, it's the rule. It states it must be deliberate and they must be moved towards the ball. 

 

Why would you have your hands up if not moving them towards the ball? His are in a totally normal position for someone jumping with his back turned.

 

 

 

Except it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Arm in an unnatural position is enough now.  

 

However, the PSG defender’s arm was not in an unnatural position and it definitely wasn’t deliberate. Never a penalty!

[kila]

 

 

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Except it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Arm in an unnatural position is enough now.  

 

However, the PSG defender’s arm was not in an unnatural position and it definitely wasn’t deliberate. Never a penalty!

 

It still says that in the rules though. 

 

I'm going round in circles with folk on something I don't really care about haha.

 

I agree with you, no penalty. I don't agree with refs ignoring the rules for whatever 'interpretations' they see fit.

 

I'm out. Enjoy people.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Taffin

[Thaw]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Except it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Arm in an unnatural position is enough now.  

 

However, the PSG defender’s arm was not in an unnatural position and it definitely wasn’t deliberate. Never a penalty!

 

Isn't even that only from next season onwards?

[Sexton Hardcastle]

How they don’t fully review the Roma shout at the end is why VAR will never work well. 

 

Absolutely no consistency in these calls. If that’s outside the box it’s a foul all day. Shocking but Roma didn’t deserve it and edf will get the bullet this week.

[Pasquale for King]

Just goes to show even with VAR opinions can vary wildly, I think it will cause nearly as much controversy as it solves but they will get more decisions correct.

[DETTY29]

25 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Going to start walking up to refs in the street and punching them in the face. Get a mate to film it in slow mo on their phone. Show it back to the ref 'look mate, you had plenty chance to get your face out the way. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR FACE.'

Remember years ago Larsson getting a goal chalked off in Europe.  May have been against Barca.

 

Keeper clears a pass back heading straight towards Larsson's face.

 

Option 1 -  Larsson put hands up to protect face which he did.  Ball bounces kindly and he rolls ball past keeper to score.

 

Option 2 - duck, no chance of goal.

 

Option 3 - let the ball smack him in the face, unlikely he woyls be the player to score, albeit ball may have broken to a team mate 

 

Ref chalked off goal for deliberate hand ball.  Tic went mental.

 

Sure they were beaten.

 

It's subjective, but Larsson gained an advantage.

 

And goes back to it's not just what the laws say, but how the refs are trained to interpret them.

Edited March 6, 2019 by DETTY29

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Thaw said:

 

Isn't even that only from next season onwards?

 

I thought they had already changed it as I remember pundits going on about how it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Have they changed it again or were they talking shite?!

 

 

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

I thought they had already changed it as I remember pundits going on about how it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Have they changed it again or were they talking shite?!

 

 

Changes on 1st June but at present deliberate is part of the law

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

I thought they had already changed it as I remember pundits going on about how it doesn’t have to be deliberate anymore.  Have they changed it again or were they talking shite?!

 

 

 

The laws are changing but these are the current rules - 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by graygo

[ArcticJambo]

17 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Penalty for me. 

 

Doesnt matter if it was by accident. 

 

VAR gone and made a fool of itself tonight. 

^^ This!  If we're going by the letter of the law (as I understand it ? ) they're both pens apparently, however in the spirit of football neither are pens. It's mental!  Both incidents just smack of jobsworthies/controlled corruption. 

[benny]

I would be sick if Hearts were denied a penalty like that one Utd got.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

The laws are changing but thee are the current rules - 

 

 

 

So some of the pundits have been talking shite then!  According to that rule it must still be deliberate. The Man U one was 100% not deliberate, the defender turns his back immediately.  Perhaps you could say he deserved it for being a coward but there’s no such rule.

 

By the letter of the law, loads of non penalties (non deliberate hand balls) are being given these days.  Of course, as far as Sevco are concerned, nothing will change for them - they’ll continue to get non penalties.

[King prawn]

1 minute ago, benny said:

I would be sick if Hearts were denied a penalty like that one Utd got.

I’d be livid if that had been given against us tbh 

[jamie1874]

I think they need to consider if the ball doesn’t hit his arm is it stopped by his body anyway. In the PSG game his ability to block the ball was made bigger by his arm position. It it doesn’t hit his arm it continues moving in the same direction the shot was hit. 

Harsh, probably, but would have been screaming for it if it was us. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, benny said:

I would be sick if Hearts were denied a penalty like that one Utd got.

 

I would be even more sick if that was given against us, on the basis it wasn’t a penalty.

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

So some of the pundits have been talking shite then!  According to that rule it must still be deliberate. The Man U one was 100% not deliberate, the defender turns his back immediately.  Perhaps you could say he deserved it for being a coward but there’s no such rule.

 

By the letter of the law, loads of non penalties (non deliberate hand balls) are being given these days.  Of course, as far as Sevco are concerned, nothing will change for them - they’ll continue to get non penalties.

 

I suppose a deliberate act could be construed as one made solely by the player's actions and a non deliberate act could be where someone pushes your arm towards the ball.

 

Clutching at straws there though.

 

ps. Pundits talk shite regularly.

Edited March 6, 2019 by graygo

[indianajones]

Wonder what var would say about the ball hitting Jamie Hamill clean in the puss would be?

 

Probably still a penalty against. 

[Bazzas right boot]

A defender at that level should never turn his back. 

 

School boy stuff. 

 

If you turn your back and raise your hands then you're in a unnatural position due to spinning around and turning your back. 

 

He should be face it up and letting him hit him, or in this case let it go over the bar. 

 

Turn your back like a big Jessie, arm out, penalty for me. 

 

Turning your back is awful defending, at Ucl level it's particularly poor. 

[Mikey1874]

30 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

So some of the pundits have been talking shite then!  According to that rule it must still be deliberate. The Man U one was 100% not deliberate, the defender turns his back immediately.  Perhaps you could say he deserved it for being a coward but there’s no such rule.

 

By the letter of the law, loads of non penalties (non deliberate hand balls) are being given these days.  Of course, as far as Sevco are concerned, nothing will change for them - they’ll continue to get non penalties.

 

'Deliberate' 

 

What does it mean? 

 

It's enough to have your arm in the wrong position. Which is also deliberate. 

 

Or you argue nothing is deliberate unless say handle on line to stop goal. McGhee at Aberdeen in that definition wasn't deliberate.