Hearts fielded ineligible player against Cove Rangers

[BobbyJenkins]

1 minute ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

There definitely is a debate. As has been stated by several posters a 3-0 defeat and fine has been the standard precedent - as this has been in knock out matches the result has meant elimination. 

 

Agree that it it a shocking error and heads are probably already rolling.

Exactly. 

[iwasthere1954]

2 hours ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

And both clubs got pumped anyway. 

No they didn't. Stranraer  won their game. Why do I get the impression you are loving every minute of this. It's bad enough without you rubbing it in.

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

No defence for this, I'm afraid  Honest mistake or not we need to take our dumps. If that means we are kicked out we need to suck it up.

 

I disagree.  If the decision is to kick us out, then I would want us to appeal.  Rangers got away with several seasons of 'imperfectly' registered players.  That was a new term dreamed up by Sandy Bryson, the Rangers supporting Compliance Officer at the time.

 

The difference in our case is that we made an honest mistake, and did not seek to gain any competitive advantage, whereas Rangers were engaged in wholesale tax cheating and deliberately withholding details of side letters issued to players, which should have been disclosed.

[Elmore]

40 minutes ago, XB52 said:

We could be kicked out but more likely cove will be awarded a 3 0 win

 

I think the only options that don't complicate things regarding the other teams in the group are either, a straight fine or thrown out and fined.  Kicking us out and counting last nights result as void, leaves all the other teams as they are and doesn't disadvantage them if Cove were given a 3-0 victory.  Either a really costly fine or thrown out. This is a costly mistake on a few levels. This doesn't just affect our club and fans, it also affects the other club in the group. 

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, brunoatemyhamster said:

Did we go to them with the info he was ineligable or did they come to us? Anyone know?

 

I'd imagine when the SFL were doing their admin checks on the team sheets, it was flagged up and they would have informed us of the error. 

[Escobar PHM]

12 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

 Knock out tournaments are way different than a league cup group with one game from four played by us.

We lose 3-0 and we move on to game 2.

Unfortunately the idiots running it will let us play game 2 prior to a decision. Which could screw up the group from there on in.

Decision should have been made tomorrow at the latest.

Its possible they could let the actual result stand but simply deduct 6 points from our total. Making it impossible for us to qualify but having no unfair impact on any of the other teams.Punishing us in a way that means we can still win the group and/or qualify isn't really a meaningful punishment at all.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[CarRentalz]

If as I suspect, it's a fine and Cove awarded 3-0. We will definately hump the next 3 teams, knock out Hibs and go on to win the cup. And all they will go on about down Leith is Cheaturz ?

[SUTOL]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I'd imagine when the SFL were doing their admin checks on the team sheets, it was flagged up and they would have informed us of the error. 

 

Maybe it was when the club were registering Doyle, that they noticed Irvings registration in the 'outbox' as it were. 

 

 

[RobNox]

4 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

Did we go to them with the info he was ineligable or did they come to us? Anyone know?

 

If we didn't know he was ineligible before the game, then I doubt we would suddenly discover this afterwards.  Must have been pointed out by the authorities.

[Don Dan]

Previous mistakes!! 

 

In 2016, Cove were themselves fined £2000 for naming an ineligible player as an unused substitute in a 4-0 defeat by Alloa Athletic in the same competition.

However, Albion Rovers were thrown out of the Challenge Cup - also an SPFL competition - in addition to their £2000 fine for fielding Liam McGuigan in a 3-0 win over Spartans last season.

 

no clear cut punishment 

[Cruyff Turn]

It's a harsh punishment for this sort of thing, it won't be a slap on the wrist.

 

Fairly certain the game will be awarded to Cove as a 3-0 victory and I'm sure we will receive a fine as well. 

 

If we were to be booted out, we wouldn't be playing Raith this weekend and a decision would have been made already, or tomorrow at the latest.

[1953]

This is a complete shambles for a club of our size. I can see how it might lead to a dismissal but I'm sure that the clubs disciplinary procedures will sort it out. I'm not looking for anybody to be sacked but might come down to whether it was just a mistake or negligence. 

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Maybe it was when the club were registering Doyle, that they noticed Irvings registration in the 'outbox' as it were. 

 

 

That would make it worse! 

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

It's a harsh punishment for this sort of thing, it won't be a slap on the wrist.

 

Fairly certain the game will be awarded to Cove as a 3-0 victory and I'm sure we will receive a fine as well. 

 

If we were to be booted out, we wouldn't be playing Raith this weekend and a decision would have been made already, or tomorrow at the latest.

 

Hearts representative will attending Monday's Scottish Professional Football League hearing, where sanctions will be determined.

 

BBC sports.

[The Internet]

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

[sairyinthat]

I think at worst they will order a replay,probably a smacked wrist pretty trivial offence imo.

[Prof]

I wonder how many extra season tickets we will sell after yet another avoidable fiasco. 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Hearts representative will attending Monday's Scottish Professional Football League hearing, where sanctions will be determined.

 

BBC sports.

Yeah, we'd have been hauled in today or tomorrow if it was an exclusion. If we were excluded after playing Raith, supporters will be foaming, especially the ones who have paid to go to both and would make things considerably worse. 

[Elmore]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Previous mistakes!! 

 

In 2016, Cove were themselves fined £2000 for naming an ineligible player as an unused substitute in a 4-0 defeat by Alloa Athletic in the same competition.

However, Albion Rovers were thrown out of the Challenge Cup - also an SPFL competition - in addition to their £2000 fine for fielding Liam McGuigan in a 3-0 win over Spartans last season.

 

no clear cut punishment 

Was this not before the group stages were introduced?  Is this the first time it's happened since then?  

[AlphonseCapone]

9 minutes ago, Elmore said:

I think the only options that don't complicate things regarding the other teams in the group are either, a straight fine or thrown out and fined.  Kicking us out and counting last nights result as void, leaves all the other teams as they are and doesn't disadvantage them if Cove were given a 3-0 victory.  Either a really costly fine or thrown out. This is a costly mistake on a few levels. This doesn't just affect our club and fans, it also affects the other club in the group. 

 

Would kicking us out not impact the number of potential points in our group and therefore the chances of someone in it being one of the best place seconds? 

[Escobar PHM]

2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

We're going to let one administrative error destroy the season ? Luckily we've got BAWS at our club if nothing else, and if anything this might well engender a siege mentality. I certainly hope we take something positive from it and dont let it drag us down.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

 You should do Shakespeare. Drama suits you.

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Would kicking us out not impact the number of potential points in our group and therefore the chances of someone in it being one of the best place seconds? 

They'd just award a 3-0 win to all the teams in our group.

[iantjambo]

**** sake.

 

How the **** can something like this happen at a club of our stature?

 

Some massive arse booting required.

Edited July 19, 2018 by iantjambo

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

 

How the **** can you tell that.. admin error = shite season

[i wish jj was my dad]

11 minutes ago, RobNox said:

 

I disagree.  If the decision is to kick us out, then I would want us to appeal.  Rangers got away with several seasons of 'imperfectly' registered players.  That was a new term dreamed up by Sandy Bryson, the Rangers supporting Compliance Officer at the time.

 

The difference in our case is that we made an honest mistake, and did not seek to gain any competitive advantage, whereas Rangers were engaged in wholesale tax cheating and deliberately withholding details of side letters issued to players, which should have been disclosed.

I understand that but just because they are a shower of hooks, crooks and comic singers doesn't make it right. 

 

Of course I don't want us to be punished but if we use those cheating pricks as the yardstick them we'd be as well giving up now.

[portobellojambo1]

5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

 

Could I just ask how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. 

 

[Manny1874]

7 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Previous mistakes!! 

 

In 2016, Cove were themselves fined £2000 for naming an ineligible player as an unused substitute in a 4-0 defeat by Alloa Athletic in the same competition.

However, Albion Rovers were thrown out of the Challenge Cup - also an SPFL competition - in addition to their £2000 fine for fielding Liam McGuigan in a 3-0 win over Spartans last season.

 

no clear cut punishment 

 

To me that suggests if Irving was an unused sub then it would be a fine. 

 

As he came off the bench (as McGuigan did) then it'll be a 3-0 victory awarded to Cove. 

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

They'd just award a 3-0 win to all the teams in our group.

That then (possibly)impacts on other teams in other groups though

[SUTOL]

4 minutes ago, Prof said:

I wonder how many extra season tickets we will sell after yet another avoidable fiasco. 

 

I was going to get one, but not going to bother now after this admin error. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ramrod]

13 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Its possible they could let the actual result stand but simply deduct 6 points from our total. Making it impossible for us to qualify but having no unfair impact on any of the other teams.Punishing us in a way that means we can still win the group and/or qualify isn't really a meaningful punishment at all.

You are absolutely desperate for us to be thrown out , why ? 

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Yeah, we'd have been hauled in today or tomorrow if it was an exclusion. If we were excluded after playing Raith, supporters will be foaming, especially the ones who have paid to go to both and would make things considerably worse. 

I have a feeling that given this is a technical breach given the fact that the paperwork had been fully completed and in order and that there was absolutely no sporting advantage in this that this might well be dealt with by way of a substantial fine. Just have to wait and see.

[Spellczech]

Saw this on Reddit and it kinda reflects AB's day...

 

 

[Elmore]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Would kicking us out not impact the number of potential points in our group and therefore the chances of someone in it being one of the best place seconds? 

Would they not just treat it as a four team group?  

[XB52]

25 minutes ago, blairdin said:

The correct punishment would be for us to be kicked out of the tournament. That's consistent with what has happened to other clubs in the past fielding ineligible players in cup games. It's not even a debate. 

 

Heads should roll, this is embarrassing. 

 

Incorrect, other teams had the result reversed and so, in a knockout competition they were out. This isn't a knockout comp at this stage. 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

That then (possibly)impacts on other teams in other groups though

How? 

[Escobar PHM]

Just now, ramrod said:

You are absolutely desperate for us to be thrown out , why ? 

Oh stop it for christs sake. Are things not bad enough you have to start a row

 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Gambo said:

Ict/Raith/Cowdenbeath may have something to say about that.

Yes, that could be an issue.

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

How? 

Because only the top 4 second place teams go through. If the second place in our group has a 3-0 default result awarded to them that qualifies them ahead of a team who didn't have that, thats unfair on the team that misses out.

[kila]

Maybe a replay to try keep it fair to the rest of the teams and a big fine

[ramrod]

1 minute ago, Elmore said:

Would they not just treat it as a four team group?  

Not worth debating as it won't happen , think about it , if it's a 4 team group them the 2nd place team has little chance of progression and if they award all the teams a win against us they have a better chance of progression. 

For that reason alone there is zero chance if us being thrown out the competition. 

[Jammy T]

Presume we can point to the fact that everyone seems to say that levein shat it and his subs gave us no advantage at all, quite the opposite?

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Jammy T

[Scnorthedinburgh]

4 minutes ago, Manny1874 said:

 

To me that suggests if Irving was an unused sub then it would be a fine. 

 

As he came off the bench (as McGuigan did) then it'll be a 3-0 victory awarded to Cove. 

Not realy.

One a knock out comp

One a group stage.

So precedent in a knock out stage is a fine.

[HMFC86]

1 minute ago, kila said:

Maybe a replay to try keep it fair to the rest of the teams and a big fine

Think this is a likely outcome. We won’t get chucked out. Either this or cove will get the points. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Escobar PHM said:

Because only the top 4 second place teams go through. If the second place in our group has a 3-0 default result awarded to them that qualifies them ahead of a team who didn't have that, thats unfair on the team that misses out.

 

Interesting.     There are consequences like this.     Even a replay has an obvious consequence.     

 

I'm unsure how this will go.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Logistically, there is no possibility of a replay. A 3-0 victory to Cove is most likely.

 

So bloody embarrassing.

[Turkishcap]

Admin2 coming......admitting its our ****** up.

[KyleLafferty]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Logistically, there is no possibility of a replay. A 3-0 victory to Cove is most likely.

 

So bloody embarrassing.

How it’s Just like playing Aberdeen away on a Tuesday night? Could easily fit it in after the Inverness game 

[Turkishcap]

The word I used had 4 letters not 5.