Hearts fielded ineligible player against Cove Rangers

[Groatallar]

I am guessing there are no laid down rules of punishments so I predict we will be fined around £5K and receive a points deduction of 1 point.

 

Given he signed a new contract in January I don't think we will be treated too harshly.

 

I'm sure he played some SPL games since Jan too, I wonder if they'll be a further sanction regarding that.

[JamboGraham]

2 minutes ago, Groatallar said:

I am guessing there are no laid down rules of punishments so I predict we will be fined around £5K and receive a points deduction of 1 point.

 

Given he signed a new contract in January I don't think we will be treated too harshly.

 

I'm sure he played some SPL games since Jan too, I wonder if they'll be a further sanction regarding that.

 

Registration only ran out in June.

[Boof]

27 minutes ago, black stump said:

I am just frustrated for the players, and us of course.

 

  Shambles, and must be demoralising for the guys who got the win.

 

Indeed. Acutely embarrassing too.

 

Presumably will NOT happen again. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Groatallar said:

I am guessing there are no laid down rules of punishments so I predict we will be fined around £5K and receive a points deduction of 1 point.

 

Given he signed a new contract in January I don't think we will be treated too harshly.

 

I'm sure he played some SPL games since Jan too, I wonder if they'll be a further sanction regarding that.

His registration ran out in June his extension paperwork was done correctly but the online registration not done at the time is what i took from the statement.

[JamboGraham]

8 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Seems that way to me. If this was a league game and you apply the same logic that all the other teams had been wronged where would it end ? 

 

The EFL had a case against Wimbledon in 2014. The club were docked three points. The result and goals from the actual game stood (Wimbledon won the match). The 3 points were treated as generic.

[Rudy T]

12 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Indeed...

 

We'll be very lucky if we walk away still in the cup and a fair bit lighter on the bank balance. It's seriously embarrassing for all concerned.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

The EFL had a case against Wimbledon in 2014. The club were docked three points. The result and goals from the actual game stood (Wimbledon won the match). The 3 points were treated as generic.

That's not my point. Someone up the thread is suggesting the other clubs have been disadvantaged because Cove will (maybe) get 3 points they weren't expecting to get - to the detriment of the other clubs in the group. I'm trying to say , you can't apply that logic. 

[1971fozzy]

17 minutes ago, Groatallar said:

I am guessing there are no laid down rules of punishments so I predict we will be fined around £5K and receive a points deduction of 1 point.

 

Given he signed a new contract in January I don't think we will be treated too harshly.

 

I'm sure he played some SPL games since Jan too, I wonder if they'll be a further sanction regarding that.

Sensible post

[Shanks]

 

The incompetence is staggering.  Any fine should come out of the people responsibles (no doubt) generous salary.

[ADAM]

33 minutes ago, Groatallar said:

I am guessing there are no laid down rules of punishments so I predict we will be fined around £5K and receive a points deduction of 1 point.

 

Given he signed a new contract in January I don't think we will be treated too harshly.

 

I'm sure he played some SPL games since Jan too, I wonder if they'll be a further sanction regarding that.

That doesn't address the issue of Cove losing out due to our wrong doing though.

 

An option would be to declare the result a draw and award the bonus point to Cove. So we forfeit 2pts, Cove awarded a win and 2pts but the other teams in the group aren't disadvantaged by Cove increasing their goal difference.

 

[Jambo, Goodbye]

If we were being emptied out of the competition the decision would have been made before the weekend, not after the Raith game. 

 

 

[el_jambo74]

Once again we messed up but we played a signed player and as such it’s a technicality and honest mistake that he wasn’t registered online. The player came on when 2-0 ahead and we lost a goal after he was on the pitch. Therefore I fail to see in what way Cove were disadvantaged. I also fail to see why in this day and age the referee can’t do such checks before the game. It’s all online. Hearts messed up but we aren’t really showing Scottish football in a good light if fans turn up for games and results are subsequently altered due to info that could easily be checked pre-match. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by el_jambo74

[Blackford Hearts]

7 hours ago, lou said:

If the SFA player registration system is anything like the SYFA's then I'm not surprised they seen to make these things as complex as possible, a certain gentleman who works there loves to make things difficult

It's pretty straightforward and I think the same for all players registered with SFA regardless of age. Sign the player, upload their details to their website and send in the paperwork registered mail. Hardly complicated

[Blackford Hearts]

3 hours ago, sadj said:

No wasn’t aimed at yourself. There is a lot of posters on here who would rather beat the club with a stick than be sensible and logical. I think what would make it tolerable with any team against us is if it was a player that was their player and it was an extension that hadn’t gone through on the website. The SFA / SPFL will have all his paperwork so there is not the same feeling generated as if we’d signed someone not registered them then they played. 

 

As I said i think the 3-0 is most likely , however I would advocate for a higher fine with some payment made to Cove due to the context involved.  

I think the Hearts statement reads that they didn't send the new paperwork to SFA after contract was extended therefore the player had become unregistered as his original contract had run out in June

[Paolo]

Cove were disadvantaged, or might claim they were, even if it was minimally.  

 

Presumably, Levein had him on the bench for a reason, and put him in for the reason, that reason being, he was the best option at the time.  

 

Yes, we conceded when he came on, but perhaps if Levein played his second choice, we would have conceded twice.  

 

There are are a lot of hypotheticals, and unknowns, and subcontinent think any precedent has been set for this competition, in this format.  

 

It is our fault, though, and we do deserve a punishment if some kind.   

Edited July 20, 2018 by Paolo

[Deevers]

5 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Registration only ran out in June.

And the paper work had all been completed properly. The error was that details had not been uploaded onto the SFA site. 

[it_hearts]

It is obviously hearts' error. But surely there is a rule for the punishment received for such error. So everyone knows exactly what is coming. Don't tell me they set up a new league format for league cup and never inserted new rules . Or will they just make it up along the way?

[Maroon Sailor]

Hearts were disadvantaged when he came on !

 

Seriously though, shit happens. Que sera and all that 

[DH1986]

Small fine and that will be that. 

 

Just another lesson learned by the those who run club.

[jamboozy]

12 minutes ago, it_hearts said:

It is obviously hearts' error. But surely there is a rule for the punishment received for such error. So everyone knows exactly what is coming. Don't tell me they set up a new league format for league cup and never inserted new rules . Or will they just make it up along the way?

There will be a new rule made up for this situation, then abolished the next time it happens, especially if it happens with the OF.

[jamboozy]

We just have to take it the chin( as Linda Lovelace said) then suck it up and move on.

[poultry]

Don't think the sponsors would be happy with the 3rd biggest team being shown the exit for this. Fine and perhaps -3pts. Own fault though.

[sairyinthat]

8 hours ago, Poseidon said:

When cove got fined £2k their player was an unused sub. We'll get emptied and it's easy to work out the rest of the group, maybe not best 2nd place etc though. 

 

If we do get kicked out then it's a disgrace by us, one of the two competitions we have a 'realistic' chance of winning. Kick in the baws.

Get real man in their list of sanctions there is No expulsion sanction and zero chance we would allow them to add one.

[Kiwidoug]

Bet it was the same person who forgot to order the seats.

 

Raging.

 

Budge oot.

[Sherbet]

I seem to recall back in the eighties  when it was knock out Forfar fielded an ineligable player and their opponents awarded the tie. Inot the next round the old Rangers did the same and received a fine

[whyskey]

my take on it is that there is three options.

1/ a straight fine.

2/ points deduction plus fine.

3/ thrown out of competition plus fine.

cove will not be given three points as this would be unfair to the other teams.

a can of worms could be opened here if the punishment is 2 or 3.

appeal using the old rangers [rip] as our appeal, they did not lose points for registering players improperly, slight differences with us but the principle is the same.

the point is does our board of directors have what it takes to go down that route.

[Maroon Sailor]

2 point deduction and the customary fine is what I would expect from this.

[bringonthesevco]

1 hour ago, jamboozy said:

There will be a new rule made up for this situation, then abolished the next time it happens, especially if it happens with the OF.

It can’t happen to the OF  as the issue is around it happening in the Group Stage which it’s unlikely they’ll ever play in.

 

rules seem a lot clearer once it’s back to knockout .....

[Harry Potter]

5 hours ago, el_jambo74 said:

Once again we messed up but we played a signed player and as such it’s a technicality and honest mistake that he wasn’t registered online. The player came on when 2-0 ahead and we lost a goal after he was on the pitch. Therefore I fail to see in what way Cove were disadvantaged. I also fail to see why in this day and age the referee can’t do such checks before the game. It’s all online. Hearts messed up but we aren’t really showing Scottish football in a good light if fans turn up for games and results are subsequently altered due to info that could easily be checked pre-match. 

Great post, common sense saying this was a pure mistake. 

[Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, jamboozy said:

We just have to take it the chin( as Linda Lovelace said) then suck it up and move on.

Linda 

[jamboozy]

4 minutes ago, bringonthesevco said:

It can’t happen to the OF  as the issue is around it happening in the Group Stage which it’s unlikely they’ll ever play in.

 

rules seem a lot clearer once it’s back to knockout .....

Just a wee tongue in cheek comment , wasn't being serious.

[Nookie Bear]

7 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

This.

it wasn’t Messi FFS.  Jesus wept. An honest mistake 

 

Thats no kind of argument at all. 

 

Maybe If he hadn’t come on the game would have finished 2-2. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, poultry said:

Don't think the sponsors would be happy with the 3rd biggest team being shown the exit for this. Fine and perhaps -3pts. Own fault though.

 

Old Firm mentality that would have this place rioting if it happened. 

[jbee647]

Should we subsequently fail to qualify from this group then the shit will truly hit the fan, The pressure will once again be heaped on the team before the season before the league season begins 

it is an amateurish situation we find ourselves embroiled in once again

However, win our 3 remaining ties convincingly and no worries, this will all blow over.

No pressure Hearts

[jamboozy]

4 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Linda 

Just thought of very bad guitar playing and out of sinc soundtracks on certain videos, erm, as I was told there was on such, ah, erm videos.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

15 point deduction, player signing ban is what I heard. 

 

Maybe we can get an agreement to not actually punish us as it was the old Hearts lfault?

[Skacelsid]

A bit embarrassing for AB, the effect the player had or did not have on the game will be seen as irrelevant to the decision on punishment, we have made an error and held our hands up, I suspect a fine and a wrist slap. A points deduction would be harsh but possible, whatever it be, take it on the chin, learn a lesson and move on.

[Prof]

The committee is still to meet to hear our case so we can only speculate. But given the make up of the SFA we will be thrown out the tournament. What's clear is the so called professional business like approach of the board is making a number of serious mistakes-massive overruns on timing and cost of new stand, another new pitch and now basic stuff like player legibility. Our club needs a chief executive that gets things done efficiently and accurately.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Prof

[SUTOL]

4 minutes ago, Prof said:

The committee is still to meet to hear our case so we can only speculate. But given the make up of the SFA we will be thrown out the tournament. What's clear is the so called professional business like approach of the board is making a number of serious mistakes-massive overruns on timing and cost of new stand, another new pitch and now basic stuff like player legibility. Our club needs a chief executive that gets things done efficiently and accurately.

 

 

 

 

 

[SUTOL]

Public flogging in the Plaza for the employee(s) suspect of being at fault. 

 

Only suitable punishment. 

[sandyk]

Embarrassing

 

But three 5-0 wins in the next three games should ease the pain

[Haken]

8 hours ago, Jambojay84 said:

I might be misunderstanding this but after reading the statement it seems to me there was an error on our part and theirs, I would've thought 1 of the blazers would check the site or documents to verify it was done correctly and it only comes to light now. Happy to be corrected if wrong 

I'd be very surprised if there is any onus at all on the blazers to check that things have been done correctly.  This will be 100% the club's responsibility with the database only being used as a means of checking for errors... ...such as the one we've made.

[Poseidon]

1 hour ago, sairyinthat said:

Get real man in their list of sanctions there is No expulsion sanction and zero chance we would allow them to add one.

Fair enough, was a bit knee jerk after I came out the pub last night

[Heartsofgold]

We will have the game result reversed and now need to win the other 3 games. Not impossible but now no margin for error if we want to qualify. 

 

Really was amateur hour doing this though. Someone should get a kick in the nutsack for this. It could lead to a significant loss of revenue if we don’t qualify now. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Heartsofgold

[Victorian]

8 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

You have a hissy fit at literally every opinion written on here. Somebody could say they wish we had brought on player A instead of player B, or they prefer salt and vinegar to cheese and onion, and you'd come steamrollering in with all guns blazing, calling them every insult under the sun. 

 

Hardly.    Some of the wild thrashing around about this is ludicrous.     

 

Every insult under the sun.    Lol.

[kingantti1874]

8 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

They will be if cove are handed 3 points and they've all still to play us. 

 

No different to how they would deal with this in the league. I doubt cove even with 3 points will be qualifying 

[davidjambo51]

There would be an almighty uproar if the authorities throw us out of the Competition next week.

They should advise THIS week , to let the fans know the Raith game is meaningless ( or not ).

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

One left field sanction could be a guarantee that we will be unseeded should we qualify.

[TorinoJambo]

2 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Small fine and that will be that. 

 

Just another lesson learned by the those who run club.

I agree. Points deduction would be over the top for what was a clerical error and a substitution which had little effect on the outcome.

[The Treasurer]

I gave up reading through this thread on page 2 so all this may have been covered in amongst the pant-wetting and hand wringing.

 

First of all the is an embarrassing mistake by the club, no doubt about it and someone will be reprimanded (or worse) for this, and rightly so.

However lets look at the facts.

The player in question was already registered as a Hearts player, we only failed to amend his contract details with the authorities.

It's wrong, but we were hardly trying to play Ronaldo under a false name.

People are using the Albion Rovers case to say we'll get thrown out the cup but they fail to realise that was a different competition.

As similar situation has arisen in this competition before, ironically with Cove Rangers being the guilty party. They were given a fine, nothing else.

What does annoy me is that they are waiting until next week to decide what punishment we will be handed.

This is not only unfair to our club and fans, it's also unfair to the other teams in our group. 

This should be dealt with today so that everyone involved knows where they stand within our qualifying group.