Absolute Scenes Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: We're not the first and won't be the last. Still shit though, can kind of already tell this is going to be a mediocre season at best. Because of an admin error?? Honestly take a look at yourself, what a total pansy comment that was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, ramrod said: Not worth debating as it won't happen , think about it , if it's a 4 team group them the 2nd place team has little chance of progression and if they award all the teams a win against us they have a better chance of progression. For that reason alone there is zero chance if us being thrown out the competition. I hope not. Is this the first time this has happened since the group stages were brought back last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, stuart500 said: Hopefully we'll discover it was Malaury Martin's fault and sack him. We should frame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Fine and 3-0 Cove is the likely outcome. Leaves us 8 goals behind ICT. Can't afford any slip ups in remaining games now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Interesting. There are consequences like this. Even a replay has an obvious consequence. I'm unsure how this will go. I'm sure they will mull it over in advance of the hearing and come up with something that has the effect of putting us out of the tournament (Thats been the actual consequence if not the actual punishment every other time this has happened) without it impacting unfairly on any other team in the competition.(not just the group we're in) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Logistically, there is no possibility of a replay. A 3-0 victory to Cove is most likely. So bloody embarrassing. Dont see how a victory for cove is fair on the other teams in the group to be honest. The fair thing to do is fine Hearts and move on with the competition, result stands. It was 30 minutes for a youth player and it didn’t change the outcome of the match however they will likely kick us out of the competition as rules is rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, BobbyJenkins said: You are yes. Dry your eyes ffs lol. I'm fine, completely fine. Just find it baffling how stuff like this is happening. Anyway, im sure we'll get it sorted and it could be worse - just read on here the post about a certain airline being turned around they always make sure they out do us on the calamity front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said: How it’s Just like playing Aberdeen away on a Tuesday night? Could easily fit it in after the Inverness game We could play on Thursday or Friday next week. Tough going but I'd bite your hand off for that offer right now and our 2nd 11 ought to beat Cove. Assuming we've registered all of them that is. Edited July 19, 2018 by Escobar PHM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkishcap Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Captain America said: Fine and 3-0 Cove is the likely outcome. Leaves us 8 goals behind ICT. Can't afford any slip ups in remaining games now. Another 10-0 v Cowdenbeath will see us ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) There’s no precedent in Scottish football for a replay is there? I don’t think we’ll be punted - most likely Cove get the points. This sort of breach should really just be fixed in the rules of the cup. Very easy to have an the offence and punishment pre-determined by the rules so we all know in advance. Edited July 19, 2018 by Jammy T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hearing on Monday. We are on tv in the same competition on Saturday. We are not getting kicked out. Will be a fine only, otherwise both teams enter a game with no idea what they have to do goal wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8skacel8 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 If Irving hadnt came on last night then this would have just been an accident waiting to happen the next time he did appear on the pitch. Its only flagged up now that his initial contract (the one the SFA have on record) has expired on the 8th of June and he has now made an appearance after this date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 What is it with is and this competition lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Turkishcap said: Another 10-0 v Cowdenbeath will see us ok. Need to get on the blower to this guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I'm trying to rationalise the various possibilities. We could be handed a 3-0 defeat, which would punish us, but also put the other teams in the group at a disadvantage compared to Cove Rangers. I think this is an unlikely outcome. We could be expelled from the tournament. That would punish us and give no advantage to any other team in the group. It could however disadvantage the prospects of a second place finisher having any chance of qualifying as one of the best runners up. More importantly, we are one of the biggest teams in the tournament, and banishing us would have an impact on revenues. I may be cynical, but I suspect that will be a consideration in the decision that is reached. We could be fined and ordered to replay the match. I tend towards that being the most likely outcome. We would be seen to be punished, we would forego any possible advantage from having fielded an ineligible player, and the SPFL can still look forward to some potential money spinning ties in the knockout stages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jammy T said: There’s no precedent in Scottish football for a replay is there? I think Livingston were ordered to replay last year (or the year before) for a similar offence. Different competition obviously (Irn Bru cup thingy) Edited July 19, 2018 by Escobar PHM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJenkins Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said: I'm fine, completely fine. Just find it baffling how stuff like this is happening. Anyway, im sure we'll get it sorted and it could be worse - just read on here the post about a certain airline being turned around they always make sure they out do us on the calamity front. Stuff like this does happen, plenty other examples. It’ embarrassing no doubt but lumping it together with unsuccessful transfers is nonsense. Aye so I hear, why didn’t it land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four faces Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 There will be no replay.Everyone knows that fielding Irvine had no impact on result.What if we won the replay 2.0.Where's the disadvantage there?.Awarding Cove a win would impact other teams.Say Raith got a draw against us,then they would get less than a team who were defeated.It's a difficult scenario.One thing that's clear ,is that whoever is responsible should be out of a job.So much good work on and off the field with us seems to be perpetuated with red necks too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jammy T said: There’s no precedent in Scottish football for a replay is there? I don’t think we’ll be punted - most likely Cove get the points. This sort of breach should really just be fixed in the rules of the cup. Very easy to have an the offence and punishment pre-determined by the rules so we all know in advance. think it will also come down to how it was missed or not sent etc. genuine mistake, how that came about or a break down in club procedure. There seem to be no set rules but a 3-0 reverse of the game seems to be way and has been used in The UCL for example. We won't get kicked out, because if they did they would need to do that if it happened again, if a League game, do they kick the team out of the league- ofc not. 3-0 reverse. If this had been the ICT game we would have ben in the shit, fortunately we can still rescue it f we do lose the points and goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, kila said: Maybe a replay to try keep it fair to the rest of the teams and a big fine A fantastic outcome would be a replay on the fixture date that Cove are free (next midweek). We could send the squad that played at Forfar on Saturday (minus Irving, of course) who should be more than capable of pumping Cove Rangers. First team v Cowdenbeath on Tuesday, Young team at Cove Rangers on Wednesday. Unfortunately a replay is probably the least likely outcome due to timescales and the fact that 4/8 second place teams qualify. How long do they wait to find out which teams have made it before they make the draw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnlondon Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 LOL another pre season another balls up , becoming a habit. We'll be extremely lucky to escape with a fine. Can't see past cove not getting the points. Deary me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Escobar PHM said: I'm sure they will mull it over in advance of the hearing and come up with something that has the effect of putting us out of the tournament (Thats been the actual consequence if not the actual punishment every other time this has happened) without it impacting unfairly on any other team in the competition.(not just the group we're in) I think the only 'sterile' sanction would be for the result to stand and for us to be deducted points. I'm calling this as the result. How many points? I'll say 3 as the most likely. A consideration of the seriousness of the error, the related reasons why it occured and the extent of the sporting advantage could result in another number. 3 if we have a reasonable argument. 4-6 if our case is not heard favourably. Best case for us is result stands + 3 point deduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleLafferty Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/crusaders-livingston-replay-irn-bru-12071703 quick google, hopefully the same outcome?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Could they just declare a no result.We lose the 3points but Cove are not awarded any and therefore gain no advantage over the other teams in the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said: Because only the top 4 second place teams go through. If the second place in our group has a 3-0 default result awarded to them that qualifies them ahead of a team who didn't have that, thats unfair on the team that misses out. Ok, got ya fair point. The general football rule is a 3-0 victory awarded to the other side if a game is forfeited but because we've already played 1 game and haven't played the othersides, so the same has to be awarded to the other sides. If they were to play a 4 team group and scrap our result v Cove, then the other groups, and this one in particular, would be effected in that instance, as they are playing less games and a game less v a seeded team to boot so that has a potential knock on effect withGD too. There must be a rule for exclusion and the only way it could be done is giving each side in our group a 3-0 win, it might not be fair to the other groups but I can't think of another way it could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, willie wallace said: Could they just declare a no result.We lose the 3points but Cove are not awarded any and therefore gain no advantage over the other teams in the group. This and a fine would be the sensible outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Embarrassing and will probably lead to a 3 zip defeat. I'm not normally of the heads must roll train of thought but this could possibly deprive us of a shot at winning the wee cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RobNox said: I'm trying to rationalise the various possibilities. We could be handed a 3-0 defeat, which would punish us, but also put the other teams in the group at a disadvantage compared to Cove Rangers. I think this is an unlikely outcome. We could be expelled from the tournament. That would punish us and give no advantage to any other team in the group. It could however disadvantage the prospects of a second place finisher having any chance of qualifying as one of the best runners up. More importantly, we are one of the biggest teams in the tournament, and banishing us would have an impact on revenues. I may be cynical, but I suspect that will be a consideration in the decision that is reached. We could be fined and ordered to replay the match. I tend towards that being the most likely outcome. We would be seen to be punished, we would forego any possible advantage from having fielded an ineligible player, and the SPFL can still look forward to some potential money spinning ties in the knockout stages. I'd bet no chance of a replay. 3-0 doesn't put the other teams at a disadvantage, this may be an issue if they had won their 1st game or win their next 2 games, they didn't and highly unlikely. ICT will be happy, they now have a very good chance of finishing top, If Raith were to beat us, they'd also have a chance to go 2nd, they other teams are not at a disadvantage if we are given a 3 goal defeat, unless Cove Rangers win their next two. The SFA will see a 3-0 defeat as the easiest route and it has been issued by Uefa so they can look unbiased and just copying them. It is what I'd do. A fine is also a possibility, but imo would be too lenient. Edited July 19, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Only way to make this equitable for the other teams in our group is to throw us out the competition. Otherwise Cove have essentially been gifted a victory over a side who most would have thought they'd have lost to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 49 minutes ago, blairdin said: The correct punishment would be for us to be kicked out of the tournament. That's consistent with what has happened to other clubs in the past fielding ineligible players in cup games. It's not even a debate. Heads should roll, this is embarrassing. Plenty teams have fielded ineligible players and not been booted. It would also be completely disproportionate in a 4 game group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James1874f Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Logistically, there is no possibility of a replay. A 3-0 victory to Cove is most likely. So bloody embarrassing. This 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Ok, got ya fair point. The general football rule is a 3-0 victory awarded to the other side if a game is forfeited but because we've already played 1 game and haven't played the othersides, so the same has to be awarded to the other sides. If they were to play a 4 team group and scrap our result v Cove, then the other groups, and this one in particular, would be effected in that instance, as they are playing less games and a game less v a seeded team to boot so that has a potential knock on effect withGD too. There must be a rule for exclusion and the only way it could be done is giving each side in our group a 3-0 win, it might not be fair to the other groups but I can't think of another way it could be done. They can punish us without impacting on any other team in the competition. I'm sure thats what they'll do. How severe it is is in the lap of the gods. If we just a get a simple 3 point deduction without Cove getting awarded a win, we'll have dodged a bullet. As I said earlier, there is nothing to stop them deducting 6 points, which puts us out but doesn't impact on any other team in a positive or negative way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said: I think Livingston were ordered to replay last year (or the year before) for a similar offence. Different competition obviously (Irn Bru cup thingy) Fair dues - that tournament just makes things up as it goes along though. Lol. In the Scottish cup I think I remember two occasions where diddy teams were emptied but I think the league set up at this stage will save us that. We won’t get the Rangers treatment of course. Hopefully Ann is lobbying internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Mickey Mouse and for once that's not the wee cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Nelly Terraces said: Only way to make this equitable for the other teams in our group is to throw us out the competition. Otherwise Cove have essentially been gifted a victory over a side who most would have thought they'd have lost to. Then this group plays less games than the other groups and the 2nd placed team in this group probably has less chance of qualifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Nelly Terraces said: Only way to make this equitable for the other teams in our group is to throw us out the competition. Otherwise Cove have essentially been gifted a victory over a side who most would have thought they'd have lost to. No that can't be equitable as there are knock on effects to other groups. It can only be a straight points deduction to avoid all other potential advantages or disadvantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Embarrassing and will probably lead to a 3 zip defeat. I'm not normally of the heads must roll train of thought but this could possibly deprive us of a shot at winning the wee cup. Which Cathro got emptied for last year - well that and 6 months of other shite.... Edited July 19, 2018 by Jammy T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Amazed that so many people want someone to be sacked over this? No one posting ever made a mistake at work, overlooked something? Do we sack every player who has a shocker in a cup game and deprives us the chance of making the final (final being about 8 games away) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjambo21 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just need to win all our games. If not out we go out. Sh*t cup anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said: I'd bet no chance of a replay. 3-0 doesn't put the other teams at a disadvantage, this may be an issue if they had won their 1st game or win their next 2 games, they didn't and highly unlikely. ICT will be happy, they now have a very good chance of finishing top, If you give ICT a 3-0 win against us, they win the group and probably get seeded as a result. Thats a disadvantage to other teams outwith our group. If they dont get awarded a 3-0 against us, they may not even qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleLafferty Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster said: “In the interests of sporting integrity and fairness to both sides, the game will be replayed.” Thats what was said after livi played a suspended player in the challenge cup. Same rules should apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Escobar PHM said: They can punish us without impacting on any other team in the competition. I'm sure thats what they'll do. How severe it is is in the lap of the gods. If we just a get a simple 3 point deduction without Cove getting awarded a win, we'll have dodged a bullet. As I said earlier, there is nothing to stop them deducting 6 points, which puts us out but doesn't impact on any other team in a positive or negative way. Good post mate, never thought of it like that. As I said, I think the game will be awarded to Cove as that's what usually happens and we'll get fined. But 6 points, that would be harsh. There's no way they are throwing us out as we're good revenue for other sides and we're already booked in for two tv games, plus there'd be zero point in playing the game against Raith on Saturday if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jammy T said: Fair dues - that tournament just makes things up as it goes along though. Lol. In the Scottish cup I think I remember two occasions where diddy teams were emptied but I think the league set up at this stage will save us that. We won’t get the Rangers treatment of course. Hopefully Ann is lobbying internally. I dont remember this ever happening in a league match (which is what this is in some ways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Wonder how the error was spotted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Jambof3tornado said: Wonder how the error was spotted? Not by Hearts I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 We deserve to be punished and whoever cocked up also deserved to be held to account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said: Good post mate, never thought of it like that. As I said, I think the game will be awarded to Cove as that's what usually happens and we'll get fined. But 6 points, that would be harsh. There's no way they are throwing us out as we're good revenue for other sides and we're already booked in for two tv games, plus there'd be zero point in playing the game against Raith on Saturday if that were the case. I think they will go down the 3-0 to Cove route too, and I think we'll still win the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, KyleLafferty said: SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster said: “In the interests of sporting integrity and fairness to both sides, the game will be replayed.” Thats what was said after livi played a suspended player in the challenge cup. Same rules should apply. Then he let Sevco keep the trophies Rangers won by cheating. I wouldn't take him at his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jammy T said: Fair dues - that tournament just makes things up as it goes along though. Lol. In the Scottish cup I think I remember two occasions where diddy teams were emptied but I think the league set up at this stage will save us that. We won’t get the Rangers treatment of course. Hopefully Ann is lobbying internally. Dunfermline had to replay Stenhousemuir in the Scottish a few years back. Won 7-1 in the fussy frame but fielded a suspended. Also had two unregistered players on the bench. Tbf they were originally kicked out then reinstated on appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, KyleLafferty said: SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster said: “In the interests of sporting integrity and fairness to both sides, the game will be replayed.” Thats what was said after livi played a suspended player in the challenge cup. Same rules should apply. Different context and has no relevant comparison to our case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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