Hearts fielded ineligible player against Cove Rangers

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Poseidon said:

When cove got fined £2k their player was an unused sub. We'll get emptied and it's easy to work out the rest of the group, maybe not best 2nd place etc though. 

 

If we do get kicked out then it's a disgrace by us, one of the two competitions we have a 'realistic' chance of winning. Kick in the baws.

Then why hold the hearing on Monday when we play on Saturday?

I for one would be looking for costs from the spfa for ticket and travel to pointless game as we had been kicked out of comp.

And tv company would do the same.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I just wonder who they can blame this on internally?  I have a rough idea, but I also know some people who will be sniggering now?

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

While I agree with you it is “breaking the laws of the game” sometimes sense needs to prevail. As he was already our player we are not angling for a sporting advantage so the definition of it can be subjective. If you were at the game we definately didnt gain an advantage we gave Cove one bringing him on (nothing against him he just looked pretty lost when he did come on) 

[Shaggy2]

Has Naismith served his ban or should we leave him out on Saturday, just in case???

[Poseidon]

2 minutes ago, Scnorthedinburgh said:

Then why hold the hearing on Monday when we play on Saturday?

I for one would be looking for costs from the spfa for ticket and travel to pointless game as we had been kicked out of comp.

And tv company would do the same.

It's hearts you'll be looking for reimbursement from imo

[colinmaroon]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

 

 

Well let's hope that the authorities have a better command of the English language.

 

To cheat = To DELIBERATELY act dishonestly or unfairly seeking to gain an advantage.

 

If you think that applies to Hearts last night, well!

[Riddley Walker]

Think the only outcome is a 3-0 win to Cove. We "cheated" technically, so the only reasonable outcome is handing them the game and probably a relatively small fine.

[luckyBatistuta]

7 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

I wouldn't be at all bothered if a team playing us used a player which they simply forgot to register! 

 

Was going to edit my last post, but thought you’d miss this.

 

So if Celtic or Rangers were to beat us, then we found this out and we get no points, just the same as them. You wouldn’t be bothered when we’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

No point in common sense thoughts or approaches to it the world may end for some if were not hung drawn and quartered. 

 

Apologies if this wasn’t aimed at myself, but his post that you commented on was to myself.

 

I definitely don’t think we should get any harsh punishment for this, we didn’t try to cheat. I’m just pointing out that I don’t think we’d be happy getting zero points and no replay if the situation was reversed, as Hf was saying.

 

[Taffin]

Just now, sadj said:

While I agree with you it is “breaking the laws of the game” sometimes sense needs to prevail. As he was already our player we are not angling for a sporting advantage so the definition of it can be subjective. If you were at the game we definately didnt gain an advantage we gave Cove one bringing him on (nothing against him he just looked pretty lost when he did come on) 

 

 

Levein chose him to come on presumably because he thought he was the best option. It's therefore unfair on Cove if they don't at least get a replay.

 

For clarity we shouldn't be severely punished. I'd probably just give us a small fine and move on. However, if it is deemed sever enough for us to lose out points then Cove should get them or amother shot at winning them

[Morgan]

Won’t be eliminated from the tournament but will need to win every other game now.  Which of course, is extremely possible.

[Kiwidoug]

It seems somewhat disproportionate to me that literally thousands of Hibs supporters invade the pitch st Hampden Park in a high profile game televised in many parts of the world.  Significant rioting and damage result yet there is no sanction whatsoever.  Hearts, or any other club for that matter, commit a technical breach of the rules of a competition and suffer a harsh sanction.

 

Now, although I am the beneficiary of a first class tertiary education at Trump University, I just can't work that one out.

[Chuck Berry]

We wont be kicked out of a competition where we are scheduled to face other clubs. It will be a hefty fine and possibly the result overturned.

 

Win our other 3 games and job done anyway.

 

Someone needs their arse severly booted though.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I just wonder who they can blame this on internally?  I have a rough idea, but I also know some people who will be sniggering now?

Hagar i would assume it depends how the error occured , could be as simple as the person doing it was finishing for the day on the website it was playing up thought it had gone through correctly and didnt think to check the following day. 

 

What I think is basic is there should be a system as I previously mentioned whereby we as a club can log in and check all registrations current violations/suspensions and before the season started we should of been checking all registrations were in order.

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Poseidon said:

It's hearts you'll be looking for reimbursement from imo

Nope as we would in all faith attend a game in a comp we had a chance of winning. 

If on Monday they rule something from the previous week made the game pointless as we were out the comp, they would have to explain why the match went ahead as a dead rubber. Why would I travel to a game in a comp we were not in when the game took place.

[eyesandears]

Disappointing for sure BUT I'd rather we didn't sack someone over an admin error. Someone that may have a wife/husband.partner, mortgage, kids, dependents. Someone that may have given years of service to the club. Yes we're all pissed off by this but I'd rather help the person that made the mistake to make sure it never happens again than hang-em-high. And who here can honestly say they have never made an administrative error at work in their life? Calm down and stop turning on our own people!

[SUTOL]

3 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

It seems somewhat disproportionate to me that literally thousands of Hibs supporters invade the pitch st Hampden Park in a high profile game televised in many parts of the world.  Significant rioting and damage result yet there is no sanction whatsoever.  Hearts, or any other club for that matter, commit a technical breach of the rules of a competition and suffer a harsh sanction.

 

Now, although I am the beneficiary of a first class tertiary education at Trump University, I just can't work that one out.

 

With one very notable exception. 

 

Though I suppose their death was punishment enough. But it didn't make amends to the other clubs who lost out due to the years of deliberate mis-registration of dozens of players. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by SUTOL

[ramrod]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

Poppycock 

[DS98]

20 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Why wasnt it noticed in the friendlies?

 

Friendly rules are a lot more relaxed. When the official doing the report on these matches noticed an unregistered  player, he probably would’ve thought he was a trialist and thought nothing else of it.

 

Cant play trialists in cup games. 

 

[suds66]

24 minutes ago, Zico said:

Can’t say there’s many time I’ve felt embarrassed by the club but this would embarrassing for a junior team. And whoever is responsible for this does deserve their jotters. If a critical part of your job description is player registration and you can’t figure out a ****ing website, then your time is better spent heading a brick wall. 

 

A replay is the best we can hope for. 3-0 loss would be fair. Kicked out the tournament would be excessive. What a ****ing mess. 

Hard to disagree. 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, ROCK LOBSTER said:

Anything but laughable 

 

Are we going to lose out on the 50p and packet of skittles prize money?  

 

Seriously, I get where you're coming from, its a rookie, rookie mistake but one plenty of clubs have mistaken. 

[PhoenixHearts]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

 

You've contradicted yourself surely?

 

To cheat requires one to knowingly break the rules in ordr to gain an unfair advantage. Cheating requires a conscious effort to be dishonest, doing something you're fully aware you should not be.

 

This wasn't that. It wasn't cheating. It was a mistake.

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

Was going to edit my last post, but thought you’d miss this.

 

So if Celtic or Rangers were to beat us, then we found this out and we get no points, just the same as them. You wouldn’t be bothered when we’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

Apologies if this wasn’t aimed at myself, but his post that you commented on was to myself.

 

I definitely don’t think we should get any harsh punishment for this, we didn’t try to cheat. I’m just pointing out that I don’t think we’d be happy getting zero points and no replay if the situation was reversed, as Hf was saying.

 

No wasn’t aimed at yourself. There is a lot of posters on here who would rather beat the club with a stick than be sensible and logical. I think what would make it tolerable with any team against us is if it was a player that was their player and it was an extension that hadn’t gone through on the website. The SFA / SPFL will have all his paperwork so there is not the same feeling generated as if we’d signed someone not registered them then they played. 

 

As I said i think the 3-0 is most likely , however I would advocate for a higher fine with some payment made to Cove due to the context involved.  

[luckyBatistuta]

Surely a replay so that Cove get their fair chance to win the game against a correct squad, plus we get a fine for breaking the rules would be the best for all.

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Well let's hope that the authorities have a better command of the English language.

 

To cheat = To DELIBERATELY act dishonestly or unfairly seeking to gain an advantage.

 

If you think that applies to Hearts last night, well!

Agreed Colin.  There is no way Hearts intended this. It’s not like we sneaked on Ronaldo to make sure we won the game.

 

But, in saying that, if the shoe was on the other foot (Hibs, Celtic, Rangers etc.) we would be screaming ‘injustice’.

 

Football fans can be as fickle as feck sometimes and Hearts are just as bad as the rest.

 

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Poppycock 

I really like Taffin as a poster but, I agree with you on this one.

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Levein chose him to come on presumably because he thought he was the best option. It's therefore unfair on Cove if they don't at least get a replay.

 

For clarity we shouldn't be severely punished. I'd probably just give us a small fine and move on. However, if it is deemed sever enough for us to lose out points then Cove should get them or amother shot at winning them

My last bit was tongue firmly in cheek , However i’d think he brought him on to get game time in a game we were so comfortable you’d think it was 5-0 at the time not 2-0 it was him and Smith coming on and the positional changes that let Cove get a foothold for 10minutes. 

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

You've contradicted yourself surely?

 

To cheat requires one to knowingly break the rules in ordr to gain an unfair advantage. Cheating requires a conscious effort to be dishonest, doing something you're fully aware you should not be.

 

This wasn't that. It wasn't cheating. It was a mistake.

Correct.

[Bellion]

There’s no time to replay the game & it would set a bad precedent. We’re almost certainly looking at the game being awarded to Cove. If we’re very lucky we’ll get away with a fine.

 

The Spartans situation is different because that was a knockout game. We’re not getting booted out the tournament. That would be farcical.

 

Whatever happens, it’s amateurish to the point of embarrassing and whoever’s responsible needs emptied. Although in mitigation our ridiculous recent levels of player turnover can’t make it an easy job.

[Doc Rob]

Although we played the guy, he was already a Hearts player and it was his new deal that hadn’t been registered. So there would be some justification for just giving us a fine.

 

The authorities have never been that fond of us though, so I expect we’ll get a 3-0 result and have to win all our other games.

[Smith&Weston]

Reversal of the score and a fine.  If we still win other 3 games then we will still go through I’d imagine.

 

Inverness at home would be entertaining needing to win by +3 or +4.  That would really have Levein out his comfort zone.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

A million

Andy Irving ffs

Edited July 19, 2018 by Sir Gio

[Glottis]

3-0 to Cove and a small fine is fair enough

[Shooter McGavin]

Should find ourselves very lucky that it isn’t a knockout game and we’re not being emptied out of it already. Amateurish. 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

You've contradicted yourself surely?

 

To cheat requires one to knowingly break the rules in ordr to gain an unfair advantage. Cheating requires a conscious effort to be dishonest, doing something you're fully aware you should not be.

 

This wasn't that. It wasn't cheating. It was a mistake.

 

 

It's a fair challenge, probably not the right word in the dictionary sense. In relation to sport I tend to feel cheated when something happens unfairly to my team.

 

For example I felt cheated when Takis was sent off against Celtic, the ref would say it was an error. Hibs fans I know felt cheated when Griffiths free kick didn't get given, I also imagine the lino just genuinely didn't see it. Equally I'd feel cheated if I was a Cove fan.

 

I'm wasnt meaning to imply sinister behaviour by Hearts and I apologise for my odd interpretation of being 'cheated.'

 

Hopefully the authorities will agree that we didn't gain any benefit or cheat and therefore confirm no punishment.

[Romulus]

Not really sure what’s up for discussion here, why are folk bringing up pitch invasions, Rangers and other nonsense? Literally nothing to do with it. 

 

Regardless or whether you think it’s cheating or not, we broke the rules and will pay the consequences. It’s a shambles of a situation and we would be laughing at any other club our size if it happened to them. 

 

The positive thing about this is that it shoukd have us firing in the other fixtures and hopefully we can get plenty goals.

[luckyBatistuta]

5 minutes ago, eyesandears said:

Disappointing for sure BUT I'd rather we didn't sack someone over an admin error. Someone that may have a wife/husband.partner, mortgage, kids, dependents. Someone that may have given years of service to the club. Yes we're all pissed off by this but I'd rather help the person that made the mistake to make sure it never happens again than hang-em-high. And who here can honestly say they have never made an administrative error at work in their life? Calm down and stop turning on our own people!

 

I agree with this, everybody makes mistakes. Yes it’s an absolute howler, but if it’s the first time they’ve done anything like this, then surely a warning that any repeat of similar would be a sackable offence would suffice. Not a good day for our club though 

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Morgan said:

I really like Taffin as a poster but, I agree with you on this one.

 

??

 

I think I actually now agree with you too. Well, in regards to be use of the word cheating. I still think it would be harsh on Cove to get nothing if we are judged to have broken he rules and lose our points. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Taffin

[Tommy Brown]

8 minutes ago, DS98 said:

 

Friendly rules are a lot more relaxed. When the official doing the report on these matches noticed an unregistered  player, he probably would’ve thought he was a trialist and thought nothing else of it.

 

Cant play trialists in cup games. 

 

Are you in the know or makinhg things up that you think happens.

to my knowledge, it is not a referee's remit to check if players are registered or not.

referees have enough on their plate working out how to work a whistle.

ex-referee.

 

 

 

[Hungry hippo]

19 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

 

If you get caught offside or touch the net at tennis or fo a knock on at rugby is it cheating? No, it's doing something accidentally against the rules which results in a proportionate penalty.

 

I'm aware that our error is more serious than the above examples and we deserve to be punished but I'm just demonstrating that breaking the laws of a game is not automatically cheating IMO.

 

 

[SUTOL]

Hearts to pay a fine to the League and to pay full costs for Cove to host a replay of the fixture.

 

 

 

With Irving on from the start. 

[Scnorthedinburgh]

23 minutes ago, Poseidon said:

When cove got fined £2k their player was an unused sub. We'll get emptied and it's easy to work out the rest of the group, maybe not best 2nd place etc though. 

 

If we do get kicked out then it's a disgrace by us, one of the two competitions we have a 'realistic' chance of winning. Kick in the baws.

Then why hold the hearing on Monday when we play on Saturday?

I for one would be looking for costs from the spfa for ticket and travel to pointless game as we had been kicked out of comp.

And tv company would do the same.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

10 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Surely a replay so that Cove get their fair chance to win the game against a correct squad, plus we get a fine for breaking the rules would be the best for all.

When is this hypothetical replay? Given that they make the draw after the last fixture next weekend, there is no way of shoehorning it in.

[SUTOL]

Just now, Scnorthedinburgh said:

Then why hold the hearing on Monday when we play on Saturday?

I for one would be looking for costs from the spfa for ticket and travel to pointless game as we had been kicked out of comp.

And tv company would do the same.

 

Who is the spfa? 

[Victorian]

Thankfully it's just the imbeciles at the SPFL who will decide our fate.     Not the demented inhabitants on here.

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

??

 

I think I actually now agree with you too. Well, in regards to be use of the word cheating. I still think it would be harsh on Cove to get nothing if we are judged to have broken he rules and lose out points. 

 And I, in turn, now agree with you Taffin.  There is no doubt that Cove should gain in some form from this. It’s the rules Ffs and everyone has to abide by them. 

 

Cheers for your response.

[luckyBatistuta]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

When is this hypothetical replay? Given that they make the draw after the last fixture next weekend, there is no way of shoehorning it in.

 

I dunno  

 

A large fine it is then 

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Tommy Brown said:

Are you in the know or makinhg things up that you think happens.

to my knowledge, it is not a referee's remit to check if players are registered or not.

referees have enough on their plate working out how to work a whistle.

ex-referee.

 

 

 

We were on the ball on naismiths suspenstion. I realy think it's the fact it was a contract extention. He is already registered, bigger didnt send new contract with changed dates.

[Pans Jambo]

[Morgan]

Just now, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I dunno  

 

A large fine it is then 

Och,  let’s all go to Marmaris and sort things out.  

[Scnorthedinburgh]

2 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Who is the spfa? 

Fat fingers small phone and our stupid mix of football authorities. 

That better?