*** Betfred Cup 2018 - Raith Rovers v Heart of Midlothian ***

[sadj]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Known as "damning with faint praise".

The building blocks are better this year imo. May not be saying much but hopefully we manage to use them properly. Is that more articulate for ya ?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

The building blocks are better this year imo. May not be saying much but hopefully we manage to use them properly. Is that more articulate for ya ?

Doesn't need to be more articulate. I think comparing to Cathro says it all.

[Escobar PHM]

37 minutes ago, sadj said:

The building blocks are better this year imo. May not be saying much but hopefully we manage to use them properly. Is that more articulate for ya ?

I questioned the selection before the game today and was rounded upon. I didn’t understand why we changed the set up so much from what looked quite balanced against Cove. We changed right wing back when there was no need. We played a full back instead. The left wing back was too far forward, playing more or less as a winger and we ended up a man short in midfield. We played Burns out of position. We changed from a front 2, to a striker who it is well known can’t play the lone striker role and Naismith off him. All we really had to do was swap Keena for MacLean and keep the rest and the shape the same. Levein tinkers far too much. We need to get very quickly to a side and set up that picks itself every week so we get settled and we’re only making changes for injuries, form loss, or suspensions.

 

If we have to persist with 3-5-2 id use Morrison and Burns as the wing backs. 2 proper strikers up top with each other and a midfield of Naismith Lee and Bozanic

Edited July 22, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

I questioned the selection before the game today and was rounded upon. I didn’t understand why we changed the set up so much from what looked quite balanced against Cove. We changed right wing back when there was no need. We played a full back instead. The left wing back was too far forward, playing more or less as a winger and we ended up a man short in midfield. We played Burns out of position. We changed from a front 2, to a striker who it is well known can’t play the lone striker role and Naismith off him. All we really had to do was swap Keena for MacLean and keep the rest and the shape the same. Levein tinkers far too much. We need to get very quickly to a side and set up that picks itself every week so we get settled and we’re only making changes for injuries, form loss, or suspensions.

Yes but you also need a plan B, so these games(We should have enough to beat Cove, Raith and Beath) are a good time to work on other solutions, incase plan A isn't working. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by ri Alban

[upa1]

7 hours ago, Rabgee said:

My take on the game was that Lafferty and Naismith had a bad game, the pitch sucked, didn’t suit the way we tried to play, and once we lost the opening goal Raith doubled down and defended like their life depended on it. The biggest worry was that our midfield couldn’t work out how to break them down but we all saw the same thing happen in the World Cup a team sits back with two banks of four, plays on the break and invites the other team to come at them. We have signed pretty much a whole new team and we are still in the pre-season period where we are figuring out the best players and formation, and the team is still getting to know each other, so we have to expect games like this. If we weren’t about to have 3 points deducted we would be in a fairly comfortable position and looking like qualifying.

We are not in pre-season.

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, maroonexile said:

Tough one. 

 

Rudi with the cup perhaps, but Gowser’s goal was the ‘one’ if you will.

 

Could you be a bit clearer on what you are trying to insinuate? If you fancy a chat about the 19th before the Cowden game I’d be more than happy to buy you a pint.

[Bauld]

13 minutes ago, upa1 said:

We are not in pre-season.

 

Traditionally speaking we are though and while it is bad enough to have European games so early having group stages in the league cup in mid July is nothing short of insane.

 

 

[merseyjambo]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Next two games should give us a better idea if our immediate future imo. 

 

Sorry but the next 2 games are going to tell us absolutely nothing. 

 

By Monday night, the chances are that they will be in all likelihood meaningless friendlies as I can’t see ICT dropping anything against that Raith side.

 

At the moment, in my opinion, there are not a lot of positives for the season ahead. 

 

There me is still a lack of urgency and pace in the team. We still lack someone who can go box to box. The only positive I saw yesterday was I though Bozanic was someone who could pick pass. We still lack mobility up front and worst of all we are still extremely timid when it comes to taking a shot. 

 

For me, unfortunately this is not all down to the players. 

 

Smith could hit that ball again another 50 times and it may end up where it did on a couple of occasions. He probably won’t hit the ball any sweeter all season. However until he hit that worldie, there had been no urgency in that team. No real pressure put on their keeper. What made it worse was the likelihood that we are going to get our result at Cove reversed on Monday to a 3-0 loss. We’re then looking at a 7 goal swing to catch Caley. Yet we played like a 1-0 result was going to suit us. What makes it worse is that Raith were down to the bones of their backside as far as a squad was concerned due to injuries and had lost the week before against the worse team in Scottish football last season, yet we did nothing to break them down or put them under real pressure. Their goalkeeper had very little in the way of saves to make and it was only really the last 15 minutes after we equalised that we put them under any sort of pressure at all. 

 

This is was an acid test for CL. Knowing where we were likely to be by Monday night with points and goals for/against, he needed to show the fans that he had the ability to set the team up to go out there to play positively and win well against a team that were short on confidence. Instead we were laborious, industrial, lacking in areas that for 3 seasons we have known needed addressing yet still have not been sorted out and playing at a pedestrian pace. 

 

We can blame the pitch or a poor refereeing decision all we want but the truth is that prior to equalising they’d had the best openings of the match and the pitch was the same for both teams as it’s not their home surface either.

 

Failure to qualify from the LC group stages was the undoing of Cathro, yet 12 months down the line we are in the same position from what is arguably an easier group.

[JamboGraham]

41 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

Traditionally speaking we are though and while it is bad enough to have European games so early having group stages in the league cup in mid July is nothing short of insane.

 

 

 

I take your point, and this is a wider observation about Scottish football, but season after season early European exits are explained by being too early in the season. We are now seeing this same explanation used for poor league cup results.

 

In any other industry if a project fails 3 years on the trot because you haven’t factored in enough lead time then you change your timescales on the the project.

 

The early to mid-July start is not traditional but is the new modern reality (and has been for a while now). Scottish football needs to find a way to adapt to this situation.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Work in progress? How many players did we sign? It borders on 15, more than a full team.

 

While we definitely needed a significant number of new bodies, it looks like we've gone for quantity over quality.

 

We've gone for what we can afford. Simples.

[Bauld]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

We've gone for what we can afford. Simples.

 

Which is how it should be.

 

And in a couple of years time what we can afford will increase significantly with the completion of all the works and once it is fully paid for.

[Nookie Bear]

7 hours ago, Stephen Muddie said:

I presume that you don't count train delays and waiting around and walking from station to station/stop in your journey times? I'm the sort who might prefer a single journey even if it took a few minutes longer. Which I doubt all things considered.

 

So fast black is an auld yin thing. I am relieved. Thankfully this phraseology was clearly deid by the time I (& a few other Jambos) started getting cabs. I was slightly concerned that it was relevant.

 

I'm just about to wade through all the guff post-Methil due to having just got home from work. Wish me luck. I'll bet right now there are quite a few well known kickspanglers literally foaming at the gash.

 

What is wrong with the phrase "fast black"?

[Nookie Bear]

28 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Sorry but the next 2 games are going to tell us absolutely nothing. 

 

By Monday night, the chances are that they will be in all likelihood meaningless friendlies as I can’t see ICT dropping anything against that Raith side.

 

At the moment, in my opinion, there are not a lot of positives for the season ahead. 

 

There me is still a lack of urgency and pace in the team. We still lack someone who can go box to box. The only positive I saw yesterday was I though Bozanic was someone who could pick pass. We still lack mobility up front and worst of all we are still extremely timid when it comes to taking a shot. 

 

For me, unfortunately this is not all down to the players. 

 

Smith could hit that ball again another 50 times and it may end up where it did on a couple of occasions. He probably won’t hit the ball any sweeter all season. However until he hit that worldie, there had been no urgency in that team. No real pressure put on their keeper. What made it worse was the likelihood that we are going to get our result at Cove reversed on Monday to a 3-0 loss. We’re then looking at a 7 goal swing to catch Caley. Yet we played like a 1-0 result was going to suit us. What makes it worse is that Raith were down to the bones of their backside as far as a squad was concerned due to injuries and had lost the week before against the worse team in Scottish football last season, yet we did nothing to break them down or put them under real pressure. Their goalkeeper had very little in the way of saves to make and it was only really the last 15 minutes after we equalised that we put them under any sort of pressure at all. 

 

This is was an acid test for CL. Knowing where we were likely to be by Monday night with points and goals for/against, he needed to show the fans that he had the ability to set the team up to go out there to play positively and win well against a team that were short on confidence. Instead we were laborious, industrial, lacking in areas that for 3 seasons we have known needed addressing yet still have not been sorted out and playing at a pedestrian pace. 

 

We can blame the pitch or a poor refereeing decision all we want but the truth is that prior to equalising they’d had the best openings of the match and the pitch was the same for both teams as it’s not their home surface either.

 

Failure to qualify from the LC group stages was the undoing of Cathro, yet 12 months down the line we are in the same position from what is arguably an easier group.

 

Agree with this although not so much your last paragraph. Cathro started the season under extreme pressure due to the previous seasons' results and needed to hit the ground running. Whilst last season was underwhelming, Levein is probably a few popularity points ahead to ensure he would survive not qualifying (if we take Cove reversal into account). 

 

But yeah, yesterday was a cup final for us.

[been here before]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

What is wrong with the phrase "fast black"?

 

Got the word black in it.

 

Its racist.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Got the word black in it.

 

Its racist.

 

[Rabgee]

1 hour ago, upa1 said:

We are not in pre-season.

I said we are in the pre-season period. Like it or not these games have been shoehorned in to the time when teams are still getting back from their holidays and getting ready for the season ahead. Anyone expecting anything other than a pre-season performance is likely to be disappointed.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Rabgee said:

I said we are in the pre-season period. Like it or not these games have been shoehorned in to the time when teams are still getting back from their holidays and getting ready for the season ahead. Anyone expecting anything other than a pre-season performance is likely to be disappointed.

 

Are Raith not in preseason too?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

We've gone for what we can afford. Simples.

Including 3 senior keepers, just as an example.

[Kiwidoug]

43 minutes ago, Rabgee said:

I said we are in the pre-season period. Like it or not these games have been shoehorned in to the time when teams are still getting back from their holidays and getting ready for the season ahead. Anyone expecting anything other than a pre-season performance is likely to be disappointed.

Yet my phone tells me that bigger clubs are frequently thrashing smaller clubs.  17-0 is not unusual.

[After The Watershed]

43 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are Raith not in preseason too?

Exactly. Not only that, how many of them are full time?

 

Yesterday was a disgrace. The Raith manager saw the weak areas anyone that was at the Cove game should have seen. He exploited our weakness down the left. Mulraney offers little support to Berra and Berra is too slow to cover Lb. Morrison was better at supporting the defence on Wednesday night yet he got dropped for Smith. Mulraney needs to be kept at bay and not given room to run into. Again this was done and we didn't have an option on the right. 

 

Levein got it completely wrong yesterday and it is staggering that it took him until we went behind to change it. At half time you could tell it wasn't working. 

 

The 3-5-2 needs ditched before the league starts unless he actually starts using the Lb he signed and signs a defensive midfielder or two.

Edited July 22, 2018 by The Crack Fox

[Rabgee]

24 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Yet my phone tells me that bigger clubs are frequently thrashing smaller clubs.  17-0 is not unusual.

Can’t say I’ve seen many 17-0 scores myself to be honest but I’ll take your word for it. I think people forget that we are the big scalp in this group and that for Raith and Cove this was their cup final. In our last two games we have had 40 shots, 19 of which were on target and 19 corners. That wouldn’t suggest that we have been playing negatively just that our finishing has been poor. As I said in my first post on this thread I thought that Lafferty and Naismith let us down yesterday. I can’t believe all of the negativity on here sometimes.

[stotty]

Not an excuse, but I have to say that playing surface was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Has to be the worst I've ever seen. 

[Debut 4]

9 hours ago, Bauld said:

 

I think we have finished 3rd or 2nd 8 times in the last 20 years. 

 

Aberdeen 6

Motherwell 4

Hibs 2

 

8 in 20 years though doesn't scream dominance and Aberdeen have been second for the last 4 seasons. 

 

Times have changed. The past is a nice memory but irrelevant in this situation.

 

Starting from this summer we need to make sure everything we do is geared towards consistency. 

Dominance in the sense of average position. Other clubs would come and go in the top end of the league.

 

Extend it back to when we returned to the top flight in the 80s. It's a different look.

 

Yes, Aberdeen have done well the last 4 seasons but an absent Rangers and admin hit Hearts helped that. Fair enough, they took advantage , but in the times Hearts were a more stable club , it was different. 

 

[Bauld]

1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

Dominance in the sense of average position. Other clubs would come and go in the top end of the league.

 

Extend it back to when we returned to the top flight in the 80s. It's a different look.

 

Yes, Aberdeen have done well the last 4 seasons but an absent Rangers and admin hit Hearts helped that. Fair enough, they took advantage , but in the times Hearts were a more stable club , it was different. 

 

 

We're still a work in progress though.

 

Financially we are ploughing millions into the future of the club.

 

It is detracting from the now but that's ok.

 

We should be willing to wait. 

 

We have a long way to go and it is a bright future.

[Nookie Bear]

11 minutes ago, stotty said:

Not an excuse, but I have to say that playing surface was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Has to be the worst I've ever seen. 

 

Now this is true. 

[luckydug]

17 minutes ago, stotty said:

Not an excuse, but I have to say that playing surface was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Has to be the worst I've ever seen. 

I agree but we better get used to it. Especially the LC group stages and away Cup ties.

[Rabgee]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Are Raith not in preseason too?

Yes they are, but as I just replied to another post, this was most likely their cup final and as far as I know they’re not trying to bed in 15 new players. The seeth and sense of entitlement on here is mind blowing at times. Raith had a game plan which involved resolute “backs to the wall” defending and playing on the break, and to their credit they did this really well.

 

I don’t get the joy that some people get from self flagellation. If Hearts are truly as bad as some people think why put yourself through the pain. I’m in my fifties now but I must have selective amnesia or early on set demensia because I can’t recall the halsyon days when we won every game we played with skill aplenty, and laid waste to all who had the gall to challenge us. We have struggled in the past against smaller teams and we will again in the future, but we’ll also pull of some shocks as well that’s what following Hearts is.

 

HHGH

[ramrod]

4 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

We're still a work in progress though.

 

Financially we are ploughing millions into the future of the club.

 

It is detracting from the now but that's ok.

 

We should be willing to wait. 

 

We have a long way to go and it is a bright future.

Well said , but I'm staring to think it can't be under CL . 

Yesterday was horrendous on so many levels . The odd decent result here and there simply isn't good enough . 

When the redevelopment off the stadium is finished we need a new direction at the club . 

We looked utterly clueless yesterday against a dreadful side , I've backed the big man and gave him time but looking at yesterday , CL and Austin don't seem to have a clue . The 3 at the back was truly woeful The new players looked pedestrian and lacking in the basics in the main and Lafferty and Naismith were uninterested and an utter embarrassment. 

Being honest I was truly shocked how bad we actually were yesterday , woeful doesn't even come close and it hurts like F&&k . 

[Elmore]

31 minutes ago, stotty said:

Not an excuse, but I have to say that playing surface was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Has to be the worst I've ever seen. 

Raith had to play on that surface as well. Its not their pitch and they would be just as disadvantaged as us.  If we don't qualify from the group stages, Levein should be gone.  There is no way that he is changing his approach to the game. We are stuck with his boring approach to the game.  Get used to it 

[mitch41]

And yet when fans see obvious mistakes in Levein's way of playing 3 centre backs should we stay silent.

Forget about the past in terms of what is happening now. Playing against Hibs and Celtic at Tynecastle 

and winning is fantastic but Levein can't live on that forever. I want Levein to be a success but he should 

be setting the team out to win games from the start of games. Yesterday was very poor Cowdenbeath & 

Inverness must be played with 2 centre backs and a more positive ways of playing.

[Maroon Sailor]

40 minutes ago, stotty said:

Not an excuse, but I have to say that playing surface was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Has to be the worst I've ever seen. 

 

They are all a disgrace for playing football on. Cove was the same.

 

Raith are getting one as well.

 

Drastic Plastic is beginning to dominate Scotland's football pitches.

[HEARTS FOREVER]

6 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

And yet when fans see obvious mistakes in Levein's way of playing 3 centre backs should we stay silent.

Forget about the past in terms of what is happening now. Playing against Hibs and Celtic at Tynecastle 

and winning is fantastic but Levein can't live on that forever. I want Levein to be a success but he should 

be setting the team out to win games from the start of games. Yesterday was very poor Cowdenbeath & 

Inverness must be played with 2 centre backs and a more positive ways of playing.

This

[By the light]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

They are all a disgrace for playing football on. Cove was the same.

 

Raith are getting one as well.

 

Drastic Plastic is beginning to dominate Scotland's football pitches.

 

Needs addressed asap. People saying it’s the same for Raith, to an extent but not really.

 

The main thing that sets players apart is the speed in which they can do things well. These pitches are slow, the players often need an extra couple of touches due to unnatural bounces.

 

Against a team that wants to sit in and defend these pitches favour the defending team. They’re not fit for professional sport. 

[jr ewing]

No excuse. 

[Elmore]

28 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

We're still a work in progress though.

 

Financially we are ploughing millions into the future of the club.

 

It is detracting from the now but that's ok.

 

We should be willing to wait. 

 

We have a long way to go and it is a bright future.

We've been waiting for things to improve for two years now. What have you seen in the games so far that have convinced you that we are going to be watching a better approach to the game?  Hibs signed Mallan for 150.000, the type of signing we should be making if we are going for quality over quantity. Mulraney?  You're kidding us on!  Every pundit on the radio was baffled by this signing. It wouldn't be that bad if we had gained a reputation for improving players, we don't. I asked about how many players have we signed and then improved them.  I think someone said one player.  So signings like Mulraney aren't going to improve us if we can't improve them as players. We need players that are ready for the step up.  I can't wait till john Daly takes over and serves up the same old boring stuff. Shite pitch and time to gel are just excuses. Raith were in the same situation us us yesterday.  Sign quality and we won't had to worry about players needing time to gel. We don't sign players and then improve them!

[Bauld]

Playing 3 at the back isn't a negative tactic. It is actually very attacking.

 

But it is a risky one.

 

3 centre backs. 

 

Outside 2 must be capable footballers. 

 

Centre must be dominant, especially in aerial duels. Positionally strong also.

 

If they don't keep a rigid line it leaves massive holes. Especially with no full backs to cover.

 

It is also very weak against teams who play with 1 striker. Which is what we will see a lot of.

 

It is a formation for talented footballers and any weaknesses can be heavily exploited.

[Hall]

16 minutes ago, Elmore said:

We've been waiting for things to improve for two years now. What have you seen in the games so far that have convinced you that we are going to be watching a better approach to the game?  Hibs signed Mallan for 150.000, the type of signing we should be making if we are going for quality over quantity. Mulraney?  You're kidding us on!  Every pundit on the radio was baffled by this signing. It wouldn't be that bad if we had gained a reputation for improving players, we don't. I asked about how many players have we signed and then improved them.  I think someone said one player.  So signings like Mulraney aren't going to improve us if we can't improve them as players. We need players that are ready for the step up.  I can't wait till john Daly takes over and serves up the same old boring stuff. Shite pitch and time to gel are just excuses. Raith were in the same situation us us yesterday.  Sign quality and we won't had to worry about players needing time to gel. We don't sign players and then improve them!

Spot on.

[Escobar PHM]

4 hours ago, upa1 said:

We are not in pre-season.

You just knew people were going to use that phrase to excuse what went there on yesterday. I’m shocked people are prepared to accept or slaver that yesterday was down to 1. It being pre-season 2. Players don’t know each other 3. The pitch was shite 4. We have injuries 5. The ref cost us the game.

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, Bauld said:

 

We're still a work in progress though.

 

Financially we are ploughing millions into the future of the club.

 

It is detracting from the now but that's ok.

 

We should be willing to wait. 

 

We have a long way to go and it is a bright future.

Hope so mate ??

[Rabgee]

2 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

You just knew people were going to use that phrase to excuse what went there on yesterday. I’m shocked people are prepared to accept or slaver that yesterday was down to 1. It being pre-season 2. Players don’t know each other 3. The pitch was shite 4. We have injuries 5. The ref cost us the game.

I think all of these had an impact, along with Raith defending very well and Lafferty and Naismith being poor. You don’t think these had an impact so what do you think the reason was then? 

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

You just knew people were going to use that phrase to excuse what went there on yesterday. I’m shocked people are prepared to accept or slaver that yesterday was down to 1. It being pre-season 2. Players don’t know each other 3. The pitch was shite 4. We have injuries 5. The ref cost us the game.

 

Agreed.  There are no excuses as we knew we had to go there and win convincingly.

 

If we are eliminated tomorrow then Levein has to carry the can.

 

I was disgusted by our lack of effort and quality.

Edited July 22, 2018 by frankblack

[Escobar PHM]

2 minutes ago, Rabgee said:

I think all of these had an impact, along with Raith defending very well and Lafferty and Naismith being poor. You don’t think these had an impact so what do you think the reason was then? 

The main reason is we’ve signed quantity over quality. Folk have been alluding to it all summer and getting shot down for it. Add to that that we play with no tempo, our system is patently not suiting the decent players we do have, like Berra Naismith and Lafferty and we’re already tinkering too much with a team that won’t the previous game fairly comfortably

Edited July 22, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[Bauld]

27 minutes ago, Elmore said:

We've been waiting for things to improve for two years now. What have you seen in the games so far that have convinced you that we are going to be watching a better approach to the game?  Hibs signed Mallan for 150.000, the type of signing we should be making if we are going for quality over quantity. Mulraney?  You're kidding us on!  Every pundit on the radio was baffled by this signing. It wouldn't be that bad if we had gained a reputation for improving players, we don't. I asked about how many players have we signed and then improved them.  I think someone said one player.  So signings like Mulraney aren't going to improve us if we can't improve them as players. We need players that are ready for the step up.  I can't wait till john Daly takes over and serves up the same old boring stuff. Shite pitch and time to gel are just excuses. Raith were in the same situation us us yesterday.  Sign quality and we won't had to worry about players needing time to gel. We don't sign players and then improve them!

 

Nothing to do with the games.

 

It's financial. 

 

We will increase our budget by a couple of million in the next few years. 

 

With that will come the ability to sign a higher calibre of player.

 

On top of that our youngsters like Cochrane will have a few more years of experience under their belts.

 

I don't know if CL can get us winning things or not. Some on here don't value the the importance of a team being given time to gel. I find that incredible and it's obvious they have never played actual football before. So I'm waiting before passing judgment.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Bauld said:

 

Nothing to do with the games.

 

It's financial. 

 

We will increase our budget by a couple of million in the next few years. 

 

With that will come the ability to sign a higher calibre of player.

 

On top of that our youngsters like Cochrane will have a few more years of experience under their belts.

 

I don't know if CL can get us winning things or not. Some on here don't value the the importance of a team being given time to gel. I find that incredible and it's obvious they have never played actual football before. So I'm waiting before passing judgment.

 

It was Raith Rovers we were playing FFS.

 

There are no excuses.

[Elmore]

1 minute ago, Bauld said:

 

Nothing to do with the games.

 

It's financial. 

 

We will increase our budget by a couple of million in the next few years. 

 

With that will come the ability to sign a higher calibre of player.

 

On top of that our youngsters like Cochrane will have a few more years of experience under their belts.

 

I don't know if CL can get us winning things or not. Some on here don't value the the importance of a team being given time to gel. I find that incredible and it's obvious they have never played actual football before. So I'm waiting before passing judgment.

Sign less players like Mulraney etc and we could be signing players like Mallen. Do you think that we improve the players we sign?  Provide evidence of the players we have signed and then coached to a better level. 

[Bauld]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

It was Raith Rovers we were playing FFS.

 

There are no excuses.

 

When you don't respect your opponent you deserve what you get.

[Escobar PHM]

2 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

Nothing to do with the games.

 

It's financial. 

 

We will increase our budget by a couple of million in the next few years. 

 

With that will come the ability to sign a higher calibre of player.

 

On top of that our youngsters like Cochrane will have a few more years of experience under their belts.

 

I don't know if CL can get us winning things or not. Some on here don't value the the importance of a team being given time to gel. I find that incredible and it's obvious they have never played actual football before. So I'm waiting before passing judgment.

I don’t see where a couple of extra million is coming from in the next few years. If Levein thinks he’ll get away with yet another transitional season he needs to wake up and smell the coffee. He slated the ‘senior players’ yesterday live on TV. Accepted no responsibility whatsoever himself.

[TyphoonJambo]

Just now, Escobar PHM said:

I don’t see where a couple of extra million is coming from in the next few years. If Levein thinks he’ll get away with yet another transitional season he needs to wake up and smell the coffee. He slated the ‘senior players’ yesterday live on TV. Accepted no responsibility whatsoever himself.

Why should he? He sent out a team more than capable of strolling this game. The fact that all that experience decided it couldn’t be arsed is hardly his fault. He done the right thing in publicly slagging them off. I don’t doubt they got the message more personally in the changing rooms. Well done the three kids that came on and turned it around.

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Bauld said:

 

When you don't respect your opponent you deserve what you get.

Respect your opponent ? You respect your opponent by taking them a plaque and shaking hands at the start and end of the game. Then you do your utmost to be superior to to them in every way for 90 minutes. We should have been putting that team to the sword, not showing them fecking respect.

[davemclaren]

3 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Sorry but the next 2 games are going to tell us absolutely nothing. 

 

By Monday night, the chances are that they will be in all likelihood meaningless friendlies as I can’t see ICT dropping anything against that Raith side.

 

At the moment, in my opinion, there are not a lot of positives for the season ahead. 

 

There me is still a lack of urgency and pace in the team. We still lack someone who can go box to box. The only positive I saw yesterday was I though Bozanic was someone who could pick pass. We still lack mobility up front and worst of all we are still extremely timid when it comes to taking a shot. 

 

For me, unfortunately this is not all down to the players. 

 

Smith could hit that ball again another 50 times and it may end up where it did on a couple of occasions. He probably won’t hit the ball any sweeter all season. However until he hit that worldie, there had been no urgency in that team. No real pressure put on their keeper. What made it worse was the likelihood that we are going to get our result at Cove reversed on Monday to a 3-0 loss. We’re then looking at a 7 goal swing to catch Caley. Yet we played like a 1-0 result was going to suit us. What makes it worse is that Raith were down to the bones of their backside as far as a squad was concerned due to injuries and had lost the week before against the worse team in Scottish football last season, yet we did nothing to break them down or put them under real pressure. Their goalkeeper had very little in the way of saves to make and it was only really the last 15 minutes after we equalised that we put them under any sort of pressure at all. 

 

This is was an acid test for CL. Knowing where we were likely to be by Monday night with points and goals for/against, he needed to show the fans that he had the ability to set the team up to go out there to play positively and win well against a team that were short on confidence. Instead we were laborious, industrial, lacking in areas that for 3 seasons we have known needed addressing yet still have not been sorted out and playing at a pedestrian pace. 

 

We can blame the pitch or a poor refereeing decision all we want but the truth is that prior to equalising they’d had the best openings of the match and the pitch was the same for both teams as it’s not their home surface either.

 

Failure to qualify from the LC group stages was the undoing of Cathro, yet 12 months down the line we are in the same position from what is arguably an easier group.

If we get three points deducted then they are certainly less meaningful, if not then we can still win the section with two wins. Failure to qualify due to an administrative ****** up isn’t entirely Levein’s fault.