Goncalves - some Hearts fans in racist abuse claims

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Rudolf said:

Please explain how abusing players helps the team we all support.

 

 

I never once said it helps.

[Nookie Bear]

21 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Must be the section you sit in. Dont hear any of that where I sit.  

 

I kind of feel the same way.

 

My experiences of hearing racism are rare enough that i can recall them individually. Probably count them on one hand over the last few years. And yet, reading some of the comments on here, it's like Tynie is a cesspit of open and very vocal, racism.

 

It's all very strange.

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

I have never said anyone is lying though. Just as I have never said Isma is lying. 

 

I have said there is no point blabbing on here all offended and disgusted about this and sitting doing nothing about. Even the club statement which has been released after I said this asks supporters to report it to the club. No one has to know you reported it. The club don’t even need to know. But the club cannot do anything about these incidents if they are not reported. 

 

I see in the statement Isma didn’t tell the club. Why is that? The club could have taken action sooner and tried to find the culprits and deal with it before it has been turned into a PR nightmare. 

 

Maybe he didn’t want to be slaughtered by Hearts supporters for “grassing” or called a “liar” whilst still at the club and living in Edinburgh? Look at the ire Ann has attracted for previously telling Hearts supporters to behave... and that’s the woman who played a major part in saving our club. Don’t blame him for getting out before raising the issue.

[Haken]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

 

Right. Seeing as you are determined to carry on with the snidey wee sly digs.

 

I know the ages of the folk for a number of reasons. Firstly in my old seat in the Wheatfield Section B, row 12, seat 16, it mainly emenated from the same group of old men in front and to the right of me. I challenged them for it plenty of times. Would you have preferred me to have stood up walked over to them and started punching them in the face? Would that then make it acceptable to mention the incidents on a Hearts messageboard? Tell a ****ing steward, aye? The worst culprit sits in the seat next to the aisle near the exit, there’s usually a polis or a steward standing about a metre or so away from him. Also in this same section a little further down still there is a whole family of them of mixed age groups, and they are pretty much always at it too. I have commented to them about it as well.

 

In my current seat Section R of the new stand, near the top. I hear it from a couple of general directions. A group of middle-aged men a few rows behind me especially.

 

These incidents above are from Tynecastle. The worst incident was at a Hampden for the League Cup Final in 2014. Mixed large group of teenagers and middle aged men shouting “COON!” at the top of their lungs every time a black player touched the ball. That’s our players and St Mirren’s by the way. In the St Mirren team that day was Isma, he was a “COON!” repeatedly, amongst other things... along with Taouil and N’goo. I turned around and made a comment a couple of times and they were either too pished (one teenage laddie of about 16 fell over on to the back of us all at one stage, his eyes rolling around in his skull) or just ignored me. A steward came and spoke to them a few times and nothing happened.

 

Hope that’s all okay? 

I've put forward the view in one of my earlier posts that those of us who witness unacceptable behaviour have a responsibility to do something about it.  That wasn't having a direct go at you, or any others who have heard stuff and took it no further.  And the worst thing to do would be to directly confront those responsible.  But the club has now issued a statement outlining a process which was pretty ,much along the lines of what I posted earlier in the thread.  There are a number of ways that we can get in touch with the club, and the club will act on information provided.

 

 

[Shanks said no]

17 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

If she was of African descent it is correct.

 

For example, are Philippinos black?

She wasn’t of African descent, she was Sri Lankan, hence why I didn’t describe her as black. 

Meant absolutely no offence if I described her ethnicity wrongly. 

[Peebo]

4 minutes ago, Bozi said:

Absolute disgrace if true, one thing though, if his wife and family are sat with other players wives and family why has nobody reported it? 

 

IF YOU hear racist abuse and don't report it then YOU are part of the problem 

In one instance, I heard Isma being racially abused. I couldn’t identify who said it. One of hundreds sat behind me. The guy in front was apoplectic, and believed he knew who said it - offered the boy outside, then went and reported him to a steward.

 

Am I part of the problem? Maybe. 

 

 

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Peebo said:

In one instance, I heard Isma being racially abused. I couldn’t identify who said it. One of hundreds sat behind me. The guy in front was apoplectic, and believed he knew who said it - offered the boy outside, then went and reported him to a steward.

 

Am I part of the problem? Maybe. 

 

 

 

It's not easy to speak up.  But I know if I heard it "every single game" I'd be keeping an eye for who it was and reporting them.

[AndyNic]

3 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

Maybe he didn’t want to be slaughtered by Hearts supporters for “grassing” or called a “liar” whilst still at the club and living in Edinburgh? Look at the ire Ann has attracted for previously telling Hearts supporters to behave... and that’s the woman who played a major part in saving our club. Don’t blame him for getting out before raising the issue.

 

Exactly this. Myself, and many others, can categorically confirm 100% that racist abuse has been directed his way by racist arseholes. 

 

If he was still playing for us now then he'd be subjected to even more abuse from the stands.

[Victorian]

Ok.  DRAW.  Everyone gets a point and a free Curly Wurly.     

[Fandango]

1 minute ago, Peebo said:

In one instance, I heard Isma being racially abused. I couldn’t identify who said it. One of hundreds sat behind me. The guy in front was apoplectic, and believed he knew who said it - offered the boy outside, then went and reported him to a steward.

 

Am I part of the problem? Maybe. 

 

 

Agree with you mate, you can hear it but as your facing the pitch and the shout comes from behind it's impossible to tell who made it. How can you report it? Surely it's up too people in the vicinity, or are they just turning a blind eye. 

[i8hibsh]

13 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I'm struggling to see the point you are trying to make here...

 

Not sure why you struggle here.

 

Have you any idea how serious an allegation is of racism? Do you? Any idea the harm it can do to reputation etc? People can lose their jobs.  All I say is you better have your proof to hand if you are going to go down this route.

[Bob Loblaw]

I've confronted people when I've hear racist stuff before.  Usually it ends up in a full blown argument as the people being told to be quiet tend to double down and become more aggressive, I understand why some people don't fancy that kind of aggro.  Thinking back on it, rather than directly confronting people I probably should've reported it, but you don't always think like that in the heat of the moment.  Plus as others who've reported people have said, it's often not dealt with properly anyway.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Imagine having the bottle to be racist amongst thousands of people. I just don’t get people who do this sort of thing. It’s as if they want to be challenged to start a riot.

 

Sad Individuals indeed.

[blairdin]

I don't think there is any point bickering about whether it didn or didn't happen. The club have issued a statement accepting it did. 

 

I didn't hear it, but I don't disbelieve it. Like all clubs we have a very small minority of arseholes in our support. Its inevitable when you have 16,000 people in the same place at the same time a few of them will be arseholes. Hopefully this story and statement will help root a few of the arseholes out and away from the club.

[Bob Loblaw]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Not sure why you struggle here.

 

Have you any idea how serious an allegation is of racism? Do you? Any idea the harm it can do to reputation etc? People can lose their jobs.  All I say is you better have your facts to hand if you are going to go down this route.

Who's in danger of losing their job here?  Going back to the discussion earlier, no specific individual has been accused of anything.  

 

You are absolutely all over the place on this thread.

[RustyRightPeg]

1 minute ago, Bob Loblaw said:

I've confronted people when I've hear racist stuff before.  Usually it ends up in a full blown argument as the people being told to be quiet tend to double down and become more aggressive, I understand why some people don't fancy that kind of aggro.  Thinking back on it, rather than directly confronting people I probably should've reported it, but you don't always think like that in the heat of the moment.  Plus as others who've reported people have said, it's often not dealt with properly anyway.

This is a point I think people need to realise stands true. Yes matters can be reported, but a point I would make it that what seems like the majority of the time, the stewards also feel a touch intimidated in escalating the matter further. If a large group of fans are in on the act, there is usually what 1 or 2 stewards per section? They aren't going to run up and confront them without expecting a verbal backlash also pointed in their direction.

[Walter Bishop]

I sat in lower F for the first and last time at the Dunfermline game at the start of the season and heard 2 or 3 racial shouts from one guy towards a Dunfermline player, A few in front of him told him to shut up but he just hurled abuse back at them. Stewards weren't interested.  

[Rudolf]

17 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I never once said it helps.

Why condone it then?

[Section G The Place To Be]

11 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

Maybe he didn’t want to be slaughtered by Hearts supporters for “grassing” or called a “liar” whilst still at the club and living in Edinburgh? Look at the ire Ann has attracted for previously telling Hearts supporters to behave... and that’s the woman who played a major part in saving our club. Don’t blame him for getting out before raising the issue.

 

OK fair point about Isma, still think he should have mentioned it but that's my personal opinion as it's what I would have done. 

 

Now that the club have released a statement asking fans to report these incidents, something we all knew how to do before, and knew that the club has asked for people to do. I assume you and the others that have heard this, will come forward and report it, and will continue to do so in the future. Because basically you are condemning the club and causing bigger problems running online to a fans forums to post about fans being racists or making sectarian comments. Where media outlets etc read comments and will pick stories up from, without giving the club the chance to deal with the problem. Ann Budge has said nothing in that interview I have not been saying since the start of this thread. 

[JamboSean]

I'm genuinely shocked people believe this doesn't happen. There's been a racist undercurrent at Tynecastle as far as I can remember.

 

Before the last St Johnstone league game I confronted a Hearts fan who was racially abusing a steward.

[colinmaroon]

13 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

Please explain how abusing players helps the team we all support.

 

 

Exactly!

 

Totally counter-productive!

 

I honestly can't remember individual Hearts players being systematically abused in the distant past.  Any Hearts player could get a bollocking for having an awful game, missing a sitter etc., but most of the "abuse" was reserved for referees and opposition players.  You could let off a lot of steam on the terraces and generally speaking there was no need to systematically abuse our own players.

 

There is a big difference between grumping, taking out your exasperation at an error, for example, and there were a few experts at that, and systematic abuse.

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

Sorry I was nor aware of that.  Racist abuse is certainly headline news now, and as I know the Club closely follow JKB I am sure they will now be considering their next action/response to rid our Club of these morons.

Amazing the change in your posts Thomaso from its all B/S to well others have heard it but I havent, well it might have happened but why does no one mention and now the oh I havent seen that thread.

 

We have supporters who are racist lets ****ing deal with it rather than defend the indefensible, perhaps people have emailed the club it would be interesting to see what they have done about it.

 

 

 

[Smack]

People jumping on i8, who has a disparate view. He's coming at the situation from a different perspective and is being abused for it! Don't know him, shite posts,  but people in glass houses. Easy target, burn the witch. 

[Jodami]

Club statement is the usual window dressing political response tbh. Until I see the club actively trying to tackle the well documented bigoted scum in our away support I find it difficult to believe they will actually do anything to eliminate the underlying bigotry and racism.

[Restonbabe]

Some people on here are seriously pantwetting.

Yes any sort of racism is unacceptable. Don't let it come to any sort of other agenda. 

 

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

Why condone it then?

 

If you don't give your all for the club I love then I do.  

[pcw1874]

14 minutes ago, redm said:

 

What sort of proof would you ideally like? 

Full video with audio with timestamps and the person in the film holding a copy of that day's newspaper?

A few years back I reported an incident to the club and police in Inverness. I wasn't the only fan to do so.

 

I witnessed a group of around 12 eejits (from the young to old enough to know better) abuse our players and fellow fans, whilst they went through the full sectarian song book. Anyone telling them to calm down was abused and threatened.

 

When the papers picked up on it and it was posted on Kickback, the usual suspects claimed they had heard nothing and had seen nothing whilst questioning the PHM credentials of anyone who dared think there might be a few scumbags within our support.

 

 

[Section G The Place To Be]

9 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

This is a point I think people need to realise stands true. Yes matters can be reported, but a point I would make it that what seems like the majority of the time, the stewards also feel a touch intimidated in escalating the matter further. If a large group of fans are in on the act, there is usually what 1 or 2 stewards per section? They aren't going to run up and confront them without expecting a verbal backlash also pointed in their direction.

 

If everyone takes this stance nothing will ever be done and the club will never know whats actually going on. The more people contact the club regarding this the more the club will act. Especially if they are reporting to stewards who are doing nothing about it. Take the stewards ID and report the steward as well.  

[Beast Boy]

8 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

OK fair point about Isma, still think he should have mentioned it but that's my personal opinion as it's what I would have done. 

 

Now that the club have released a statement asking fans to report these incidents, something we all knew how to do before, and knew that the club has asked for people to do. I assume you and the others that have heard this, will come forward and report it, and will continue to do so in the future. Because basically you are condemning the club and causing bigger problems running online to a fans forums to post about fans being racists or making sectarian comments. Where media outlets etc read comments and will pick stories up from, without giving the club the chance to deal with the problem. Ann Budge has said nothing in that interview I have not been saying since the start of this thread. 

 

I’ve already said that I commented on it at the time, pretty much every time I’ve heard it.

[colinmaroon]

22 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

She wasn’t of African descent, she was Sri Lankan, hence why I didn’t describe her as black. 

Meant absolutely no offence if I described her ethnicity wrongly. 

 

 

My point exactly, of course, now you know you should called her Sri Lankan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

People of African descent have decided, whatever their shade, they want to be identified as black.  However, I'm fairly certain Sri Lankans don't.

[Norm]

It's shite he gets racial abuse from Hearts supporters but it's not exactly surprising. There are racists at every club. Why would we be any different? It's a minority thankfully, and the club do everything they can to make it that way. It's a shit state of affairs but I think it just highlights the fact that racist arseholes still go to football games, rather than Hearts fans are inherently racist. 

[Don Dan]

6 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Club statement is the usual window dressing political response tbh. Until I see the club actively trying to tackle the well documented bigoted scum in our away support I find it difficult to believe they will actually do anything to eliminate the underlying bigotry and racism.

 

Can you suggest how we tackle these individuals.

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Club statement is the usual window dressing political response tbh. Until I see the club actively trying to tackle the well documented bigoted scum in our away support I find it difficult to believe they will actually do anything to eliminate the underlying bigotry and racism.

 

 

This has nothing to do with the away fans.  It was an accusation of racism in the main stand where the player's wives sit.  You will struggle for anyone to deny 'that element' who go to our away games, however this thread is not about that.  I would also go out on a limb and say our 'away fans' who we all know about do not sit beside the player's wives at the games.

[colinmaroon]

Word of warning!

 

If the referees are wearing black, not so often these days, be careful what you shout at them.

[Back to 2005]

1 hour ago, Oliver Twist said:

Anybody denying they've not heard this is a liar or never been to Tynecastle.

 

Buaben gets is warming up. I've heard distasteful comments in the Wheatfield were I sat for years and I've heard it in the New stand where I am now.

Some of the abuse Larry Kingston got was off the chart towards the end of his time at Hearts and not because he'd just chucked in the towel.

 

I'm not easily offended and live with it on a day to day basis so I don't feel the need to "grass" anyone,  [mod edit - flag debate] 

 

Absolutely no place for any of that Shit at Football.

 

 

Sorry but this is simply not true. These players may get abused but not because they are black. I sit in the Gorgie and they generally warm up in front of us. Never once heard a racist comment.

Lazy, moneygrabbers definitely but that is not exclusive to skin colour.

[Jamboelite]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

This has nothing to do with the away fans.  It was an accusation of racism in the main stand where the player's wives sit.  You will struggle for anyone to deny 'that element' who go to our away games, however this thread is not about that.  I would also go out on a limb and say our 'away fans' who we all know about do not sit beside the player's wives at the games.

 

So the racists are only racists at away games but manage to behave differently at home games ? and you know where they sit at home games because you say they arent near the players wives ? so where do they sit ? and why havent you reported them ?

 

Having a mare.

 

[robbodog]

The saddest part for me about this is, that rather than widespread condemnation of the action that affected Isma and his family. We have a number either not believing the accusations or expecting some concrete proof of it having happened.

Hearts are in no way alone in having a minority of knuckle dragging idiots in amongst our support but to deny it or excuse it is just depressing.

[Hood09]

Never heard anything like this around me in section wheatfield so can’t comment too much. If his family have heard it they would have been in main stand so would have come from that direction. That being said I am taking this with a pinch of salt as I can’t help but think some ones mistaken fat lazy ******* for something with a racial conitation .  

 

 

[waynefozzie]

 

2 minutes ago, JamboSean said:

I'm genuinely shocked people believe this doesn't happen. There's been a racist undercurrent at Tynecastle as far as I can remember.

 

1 minute ago, robbodog said:

The saddest part for me about this is, that rather than widespread condemnation of the action that affected Isma and his family. We have a number either not believing the accusations or expecting some concrete proof of it having happened.

Hearts are in no way alone in having a minority of knuckle dragging idiots in amongst our support but to deny it or excuse it is just depressing.

 

Agreed. I don't think Tynecastle has a worse problem with racism than other grounds (and it's plagued by less racism than some places I've worked). But we do have a big problem. Following us home and away over many years, I've heard so much racism, ranging from implicit slurs, to open intimidation and hate speech directed against a mother and her two young children (that was on the way to White Hart Lane). I'm talking scores of incidents, at least. I'm afraid I can't believe any hearing hearts supporter who says they have attended Tynecastle with any regularity and have NEVER heard any racist comments. I don't believe them and I can't fathom their motivation for lying about it.

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Jamboelite said:

 

So the racists are only racists at away games but manage to behave differently at home games ? and you know where they sit at home games because you say they arent near the players wives ? so where do they sit ? and why havent you reported them ?

 

Having a mare.

 

 

 

Again, where did I say that?

 

This thread is about a particular incident(s) - you do understand that?

 

I assume Mrs Goncalves sits beside other WAGs yeah?  Have any other WAGs come out to substantiate her accusation?

 

[Section G The Place To Be]

4 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Sorry but this is simply not true. These players may get abused but not because they are black. I sit in the Gorgie and they generally warm up in front of us. Never once heard a racist comment.

Lazy, moneygrabbers definitely but that is not exclusive to skin colour.

 

 

Unfortunately we do have to admit there are racists in our support as there are in every clubs support. Sadly though, we also have some morons in our support that like to hear things that aren't actually being said because it suits their agenda.

[Ibrahim Tall]

None of this should a be surprise to anyone, a minority of Hearts fans are racist bigoted scum and we all know it. Same goes for every other club in Scotland. 

Its shit for Isma and his family and ridiculous that the attitudes still exist in 2018.

[Peebo]

31 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

 

It's not easy to speak up.  But I know if I heard it "every single game" I'd be keeping an eye for who it was and reporting them.

Me too. When I’m hearing it every single game, and know who is doing it, I will be more inclined to do that. 

[jack D and coke]

 

 

2 minutes ago, robbodog said:

The saddest part for me about this is, that rather than widespread condemnation of the action that affected Isma and his family. We have a number either not believing the accusations or expecting some concrete proof of it having happened.

Hearts are in no way alone in having a minority of knuckle dragging idiots in amongst our support but to deny it or excuse it is just depressing.

I haven’t seen anybody excuse it. 

Personally I haven’t heard anything racist at Tynecastle for years. I hear sectarian stuff plenty especially against certain teams and players but I haven’t heard anybody shout anything to do with a players colour. I can’t believe anybody would loudly shout something like that anymore I honest can’t. We’ll have racist supporters I’ve no doubt about that but shouting at the top of your voice is another thing altogether. 

Im reading people saying they’ve heard it and fair enough but I find it unbelievable in a crowd you’ll embarrass yourself like that frankly. You’d deserve everything you get. 

[Jodami]

8 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Can you suggest how we tackle these individuals.

Gee I dunno Sherlock. Maybe send someone to an away game to film them in grounds or on trains, sure would take some serious detective work to get on their trail...... 

[151]

Would be interesting to hear Djoum and Buabens take on this. Been here longer, played some games alot worse. Maybe Isma just has supernatural hearing. 

 

I just feel like its sour grapes and he decided to have a dig in a way that would affect the club.

[Jodami]

10 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

This has nothing to do with the away fans.  It was an accusation of racism in the main stand where the player's wives sit.  You will struggle for anyone to deny 'that element' who go to our away games, however this thread is not about that.  I would also go out on a limb and say our 'away fans' who we all know about do not sit beside the player's wives at the games.

It's got everything to do with the culture you allow to develop among the support.

[HopeDiouf]

2 minutes ago, Peebo said:

Me too. When I’m hearing it every single game, and know who is doing it, I will be more inclined to do that. 

 I hope the others on here who claim to hear it every single game do the same.

[Dinger]

i hope that if anyone is found to be racially abusing anyone inside tynecastle they are flat out banned. 

proper scumbag behaviour. 

[Peebo]

47 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

I have never said anyone is lying though. Just as I have never said Isma is lying. 

 

I have said there is no point blabbing on here all offended and disgusted about this and sitting doing nothing about. Even the club statement which has been released after I said this asks supporters to report it to the club. No one has to know you reported it. The club don’t even need to know. But the club cannot do anything about these incidents if they are not reported. 

 

I see in the statement Isma didn’t tell the club. Why is that? The club could have taken action sooner and tried to find the culprits and deal with it before it has been turned into a PR nightmare. 

I didn’t suggest you were accusing anyone of lying.

 

I agree that reporting such instances is an important step. Personally, I’d go straight to the police. However, I’ve enough experience with the police to know that saying “I heard someone shout something racist, but have no idea who” would result in no action. They do nothing about 3000 Celtic fans singing sectarian bile. 

 

As as I said earlier, sounds like Isma’s focus was getting away from a club who had a minority of fans giving him racist abuse, rather than solving that problem.