Goncalves - some Hearts fans in racist abuse claims

[Pans Jambo]

I'm calling BS on this whole episode.

 

He was boo'd because he didnt reproduce anything like the form he promised. He left because he was gash & wasnt man enough to dig in and work hard! Not because of his skin tone.

 

He's not the first or the last non-white player to pull on the maroon jersey.

 

[Section G The Place To Be]

6 minutes ago, E6 Inc said:

 

We've had black players play for us before Isma right? And they've not complained about being racially abused yeah?

 

Same thing. Just because Fashanu wasn't the target of homophobic abuse doesn't mean the next gay player who is a lazy fat git who didn't play for the shirt won't be abused, with his sexuality being used an insult.

 

I think we're getting off point here. Racism is bad. The culprits should be banned.

 

 

 

 

You jumped stright in to make an assumption that the day am openly gay player plays will be interesting. Assuming they would be targeted for homophobic abuse. By your own admission you weren't even aware have already had on openly gay player playing for us who received no abuse. I'll also add that was at a time when there was far more racist, sectarian and homophobic abuse. Long before the Hibees are gay chant even. So the point you tried to make was a stupid one as it was completely irrelevant. 

[E6 Inc]

Just now, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

You jumped stright in to make an assumption that the day am openly gay player plays will be interesting. Assuming they would be targeted for homophobic abuse. By your own admission you weren't even aware have already had on openly gay player playing for us who received no abuse. I'll also add that was at a time when there was far more racist, sectarian and homophobic abuse. Long before the Hibees are gay chant even. So the point you tried to make was a stupid one as it was completely irrelevant. 

 

I was fully aware Fashanu played for us, I was just too young to personally remember him playing.

 

To say the moronic element of our support won't abuse a future gay player because we had a gay player in the early 90s is ridiculous.

 

And you've still not got my point.

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm calling BS on this whole episode.

 

He was boo'd because he didnt reproduce anything like the form he promised. He left because he was gash & wasnt man enough to dig in and work hard! Not because of his skin tone.

 

He's not the first or the last non-white player to pull on the maroon jersey.

 

 

Totally respect your honesty here Pans.

 

I am open either way, I hope obviously it is BS but could well be true.  My argument is I refuse to just go with it at face value.

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm calling BS on this whole episode.

 

He was boo'd because he didnt reproduce anything like the form he promised. He left because he was gash & wasnt man enough to dig in and work hard! Not because of his skin tone.

 

He's not the first or the last non-white player to pull on the maroon jersey.

 

 

Why was he called a "black b******" if it wasn't because of his skin tone?

 

 

 

 

[frankblack]

Just now, E6 Inc said:

 

I was fully aware Fashanu played for us, I was just too young to personally remember him playing.

 

To say the moronic element of our support won't abuse a future gay player because we had a gay player in the early 90s is ridiculous.

 

And you've still not got my point.

 

You should have heard the abuse he got when he payed for Airdrie before us...

 

There is also the Mickey Weir song that might not be seen so good nowadays.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

Why was he called a "black b******" if it wasn't because of his skin tone?

 

 

 

 

Not aware if he was. I never witnessed it and I dont recall anyone on here saying anything about it in the past. I fairly sure it would have been mentioned before today if our supporters had heard that.

 

Even if he was called that name once. Would he leave because of that one incident? It's a 'look at me' statement because the Hearts fans disliked his laziness and inability to score regularly.

 

If someone in our support did shout that at him then he/she/they need identified and hounded out.

[i8hibsh]

I keep thinking of the film '12 Angry Men' whilst on this thread.  A very good film and quite pertinent here.

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

I keep thinking of the film '12 Angry Men' whilst on this thread.  A very good film and quite pertinent here.

Please for the love of god don't tell me you see yourself as juror 8?

[BigAlim]

What is this nonsense folk are saying about it not being mentioned until now? I certainly brought it up months ago as did several posters, sure enough such comments were shut down by folk on here

 

How many people need to attest to something before those in denial will just condemn it without feeling begrudged to do so? 

[clark963]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Not aware if he was. I never witnessed it and I dont recall anyone on here saying anything about it in the past. I fairly sure it would have been mentioned before today if our supporters had heard that.

 

Even if he was called that name once. Would he leave because of that one incident? It's a 'look at me' statement because the Hearts fans disliked his laziness and inability to score regularly.

 

If someone in our support did shout that at him then he/she/they need identified and hounded out.

I witnessed it at Hamilton away!!!!

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Please for the love of god don't tell me you see yourself as juror 8?

 

 

I see myself as the one who was wanting to at least discuss it of course before the man got sentenced to death.

 

i8 - always the sensible one

 

 

 

 

 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

I don't know whether it's true or not but the sad fact is it wouldn't surprise any of us. As if the Plastic Proddie Loyal crew weren't bad enough, now this. We've got some utter cretins among our support.

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I see myself as the one who was wanting to at least discuss it of course before the man got sentenced to death.

 

i8 - always the sensible one

 

 

 

 

 

You actually do see yourself as juror 8..............ah well you crack on.

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, clark963 said:

I witnessed it at Hamilton away!!!!

I hope you reported it then.

 

My point stands. He didnt leave because some numpty ignoramus had a pop at him. If you said you heard it at Hamilton then I dont doubt you but I dont believe for one minute its a prevelant as we are being led to believe.

[Escobar PHM]

2 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

If she was of African descent it is correct.

 

For example, are Philippinos black?

The term ‘coloured’ is associated with segregation in the US and is a highly offensive racial slur, especially in the US where you’d never get away with using that term. Phillippinos  are Phillipinos. There is

no need to define them further by skin colour.

[Section G The Place To Be]

14 minutes ago, E6 Inc said:

 

I was fully aware Fashanu played for us, I was just too young to personally remember him playing.

 

To say the moronic element of our support won't abuse a future gay player because we had a gay player in the early 90s is ridiculous.

 

And you've still not got my point.

 

 

That's not what I have said though and you know that. 

 

The fact we had a gay player playing in the 90's is neither here nor there, in fact if we are to make an assumption as you have, based on supporters behaviour,  then evidence suggests the next gay player we sign will receive no abuse. Your assumptions are pointless and stupid there is no point to them.  

 

 

[Skacelsid]

It is sad to hear Isma feels this way about some of our fans and felt the need to speak out. Bigotry and racism blights our game, and neds see football as a place where they can vent their small minded bile. It is not unique to Tynecastle. Fans should report behaviour that crosses the line, we have all heard it, it will not stop it, we will not cure society, but the club must act when individuals are reported. Tynie should be a welcoming experience for all parts of our families and especially our young future fans, perfection is not achievable but it can be a lot better and we can all play our part and make sure the minority stays that way. Supporting and encouraging all players in maroon is a good place to start.

[Section G The Place To Be]

7 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

What is this nonsense folk are saying about it not being mentioned until now? I certainly brought it up months ago as did several posters, sure enough such comments were shut down by folk on here

 

How many people need to attest to something before those in denial will just condemn it without feeling begrudged to do so? 

 

 

Report it to the club yeah? 

[Four faces]

Having just read the article,the first thing that sticks out at me is why he didn't go speak to the club about it?.He will know the people in charge have zero tolerance of this type of thing.He doesn't like to talk to people about his problems,then goes on to speak to media people about his problem??.He could have made a difference but instead he becomes part of the problem as he failed to search for a solution and the same can be said for the individuals on here who again wait until after the event before telling everyone about witnessing it.The comment about his wife not wanting to live in a city where they are not welcome is bang out of order.That is disrespectful to the  vast majority of decent people in the city.By the way,i wouldn't like her by my side in a crisis.These arseholes who shout this kind of stuff are scum who you'll find hate everyone who isn't like them.whites included.Haters gotta hate as they say.Had to laugh about the comment from Levein telling him he did well after the Aberdeen game.That was man management to keep his head up.He was chronic and Craig knew it.Finally, just imagine paragraphing in this post as i can't be arsed.

[fabienleclerq]

3 hours ago, Thought Police said:

It’s  highly ignorant and doesn’t happen to white players

Away and fling shite.

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk are now Basically saying if you don't report rascism or do anything about it , It's their fault it continues.

 

Great stuff.

 

I'm out.

[Escobar PHM]

3 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

That's not what I have said though and you know that. 

 

The fact we had a gay player playing in the 90's is neither here nor there, in fact if we are to make an assumption as you have, based on supporters behaviour,  then evidence suggests the next gay player we sign will receive no abuse. Your assumptions are pointless and stupid there is no point to them.  

 

 

It’s actually impossible to believe, statistically speaking that we haven’t had any gay players on the books since Fashanu. None of them openly or declared to be gay of course because professional football in this country is one of the last work places you couldnt be openly gay and think folk wouldn’t bat an eyelid about it.

[jake]

18 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Please for the love of god don't tell me you see yourself as juror 8?

?

[E6 Inc]

5 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

That's not what I have said though and you know that. 

 

The fact we had a gay player playing in the 90's is neither here nor there, in fact if we are to make an assumption as you have, based on supporters behaviour,  then evidence suggests the next gay player we sign will receive no abuse. Your assumptions are pointless and stupid there is no point to them.  

 

 

 

I didn't say the next gay player we sign will be abused. You're ignoring the point I've made since the first time I've made it.

 

Your reply to this comment will be to challenge a fact I've not made and then to call me stupid, it's predictable and getting tedious.

[jack D and coke]

31 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm calling BS on this whole episode.

 

He was boo'd because he didnt reproduce anything like the form he promised. He left because he was gash & wasnt man enough to dig in and work hard! Not because of his skin tone.

 

He's not the first or the last non-white player to pull on the maroon jersey.

 

Where I’m at. 

He didn’t have the stomach to get through it and instead cupped his ears like a child at his own supporters like we should be glad he’s playing for us. He was in the main absolutely shite and fair enough have a parting shot at the fans but playing the race card is low. The media can now ignore the OF’s constant nonsense and kick Hearts again. 

A waste of a jersey and he’s went even further down in my estimations. 

[Peebo]

4 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

Folk are now Basically saying if you don't report rascism or do anything about it , It's their fault it continues.

 

Great stuff.

 

I'm out.

I also get the impression some think that if you witness something but didn’t report it to the club, it didn’t happen. 

[Haken]

4 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

Folk are now Basically saying if you don't report rascism or do anything about it , It's their fault it continues.

 

Great stuff.

 

I'm out.

I've said responsibility starts with the support.  The club have provided a statement outlining the various means of getting in touch.  If it's not our responsibility, I'm guessing it must then be the club's.  Should they employ additional stewards or ask for additional policing?

 

I completely understand the reluctance for people to 'become involved', even anonymously.  But at the end of the day, not becoming involved is akin to hiding your head in the sand in the hope that someone else will act more responsibly than you.  However, I don't lose sight that the bigger problem here is people being racist, rather than people not reporting people for being racist.  I do not for a second believe that there are people in our support who exist in such a position of ignorance that they believe using a person's skin colour in an abusive way is just wrong (or, indeed, a criminal offence).

[Irufushi]

42 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm calling BS on this whole episode.

 

He was boo'd because he didnt reproduce anything like the form he promised. He left because he was gash & wasnt man enough to dig in and work hard! Not because of his skin tone.

 

He's not the first or the last non-white player to pull on the maroon jersey.

 

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

41 minutes ago, E6 Inc said:

 

I was fully aware Fashanu played for us, I was just too young to personally remember him playing.

 

To say the moronic element of our support won't abuse a future gay player because we had a gay player in the early 90s is ridiculous.

 

And you've still not got my point.

 

We had a song for him at the time that went:

 

He's gay,

He's black,

He leads the Hearts attack,

Fashanu, Fashanu

 

I was young at the time and had no idea if it was offensive at all. I thought it wasn't meant to be a satirical counter to the the homophobia and racism that was more prevalent in society back then - and especially at the football. He was a bit of a cult hero. I think now it would be considered too risky though. I'll always remember him playing a blinder against the Hibs at Tynie when a young Allan Johnston came on as a sub and scored the winner. Happy days.

 

On topic - no time for racism at the football. It's common bullying in it's basest form.

 

 

[kila]

30 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

What is this nonsense folk are saying about it not being mentioned until now? I certainly brought it up months ago as did several posters, sure enough such comments were shut down by folk on here

 

How many people need to attest to something before those in denial will just condemn it without feeling begrudged to do so? 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Haken said:

I've said responsibility starts with the support.  The club have provided a statement outlining the various means of getting in touch.  If it's not our responsibility, I'm guessing it must then be the club's.  Should they employ additional stewards or ask for additional policing?

 

I completely understand the reluctance for people to 'become involved', even anonymously.  But at the end of the day, not becoming involved is akin to hiding your head in the sand in the hope that someone else will act more responsibly than you.  However, I don't lose sight that the bigger problem here is people being racist, rather than people not reporting people for being racist.  I do not for a second believe that there are people in our support who exist in such a position of ignorance that they believe using a person's skin colour in an abusive way is just wrong (or, indeed, a criminal offence).

 

 

Your first sentence was wrong-

Responsibility starts with the individual.

 

 

If someone was getting beat up, I'd step in.

For abusing a player, in all honesty I have a life, a job, wife and kids . I am not risking a burst face or worse over that.

Quite simple really.

 

For me it's annoying, and embarrassment. It's not close or important enough for me to individualy take up and put myself at risk.

 

Doesn't mean that the racist element are arseholes tho and they do attend our games.

Same goes for the secterian shite.

[King prawn]

42 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Please for the love of god don't tell me you see yourself as juror 8?

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We had a song for him at the time that went:

 

He's gay,

He's black,

He leads the Hearts attack,

Fashanu, Fashanu

 

I was young at the time and had no idea if it was offensive at all. I thought it wasn't meant to be a satirical counter to the the homophobia and racism that was more prevalent in society back then - and especially at the football. He was a bit of a cult hero. I think now it would be considered too risky though. I'll always remember him playing a blinder against the Hibs at Tynie when a young Allan Johnston came on as a sub and scored the winner. Happy days.

 

On topic - no time for racism at the football. It's common bullying in it's basest form.

 

 

Seems to me that is exactly what it was.

[Justin Z]

44 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Please for the love of god don't tell me you see yourself as juror 8?

 

A walking, talking Dunning-Kruger effect

[Section G The Place To Be]

23 minutes ago, E6 Inc said:

 

I didn't say the next gay player we sign will be abused. You're ignoring the point I've made since the first time I've made it.

 

Your reply to this comment will be to challenge a fact I've not made and then to call me stupid, it's predictable and getting tedious.

 

I said your point was stupid. That’s conpletely different from personally calling you stupid. Yet again your making an incorrect assumption. 

 

Your very first comment you said 

 

“It'll be an interesting day when openly gay footballers play for us.”

 

You didn’t even know about Justin Fashanu for a start. Secondly your making an assumption based on no evidence ( what evidence you could use based on JF’s time with us contradicts your assumption) that the next gay player would be subject to homophobic abuse. 

 

Anyway im not going to keep going with this. 

 

 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

31 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

It’s actually impossible to believe, statistically speaking that we haven’t had any gay players on the books since Fashanu. None of them openly or declared to be gay of course because professional football in this country is one of the last work places you couldnt be openly gay and think folk wouldn’t bat an eyelid about it.

How many players have openly declared themselves to be heterosexual?

[robroy1874]

8 hours ago, kimosavi said:

With all due respect thommo uzbekistan is going to be worse than anything he hears in Scotland unfortunatlley for the lad wish him well.

Been there many times - and this sadly is absolutely true. He will have a torrid time compared to anything experienced here

[Escobar PHM]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How many players have openly declared themselves to be heterosexual?

Not sure the point your trying to make relative to my post. I’m not in favour of anyone ‘declaring’ their sexuality in this day and age. It’s simply not relevant.

[i8hibsh]

I just read that the manager of his new team is Shota Arvaladze.  Blast from the past.

 

[jambo1961]

I dont tink there are that many if any homosexual players out there ..well in the Mens game

 

If there are then I dont think anyone would be that fussed no big deal

[E6 Inc]

6 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

I said your point was stupid. That’s conpletely different from personally calling you stupid. Yet again your making an incorrect assumption. 

 

Your very first comment you said 

 

“It'll be an interesting day when openly gay footballers play for us.”

 

You didn’t even know about Justin Fashanu for a start. Secondly your making an assumption based on no evidence ( what evidence you could use based on JF’s time with us contradicts your assumption) that the next gay player would be subject to homophobic abuse. 

 

Anyway im not going to keep going with this. 

 

 

 

 

 

You must be on the wind up mate ?

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Arseholes.

 

uneducated, ignorant pigs. 

 

If your someone who has racially abused one of our and YOUR own players, then simply **** off.

 

[3Bigcupsoon]

10 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Your first sentence was wrong-

Responsibility starts with the individual.

 

 

If someone was getting beat up, I'd step in.

For abusing a player, in all honesty I have a life, a job, wife and kids . I am not risking a burst face or worse over that.

Quite simple really.

 

For me it's annoying, and embarrassment. It's not close or important enough for me to individualy take up and put myself at risk.

 

Doesn't mean that the racist element are arseholes tho and they do attend our games.

Same goes for the secterian shite.

I think the point here is that nobody is requesting YOU specifically to report it or confront the culprit. 

I wouldn't want my face burst either, equally even a racist clown surely wouldn't assault someone with CCTV etc all over the place? 

Someone must sit next to these morons,if they hear this once, they report it to the Club, not everyone can know where it comes from but some must. 

If everyone does this and the club gets thousands of responses in the same area, then culprits will be identified soon enough, otherwise things are getting very busy blown out of proportion as usual. 

For the record anyone found guilty of this behaviour should be banned indefinitely. 

Think we are all agreed Racism is unacceptable but let's help the club deal with it, not just give the press a free dig. 

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

Not sure the point your trying to make relative to my post. I’m not in favour of anyone ‘declaring’ their sexuality in this day and age. It’s simply not relevant.

That was sort of my point.

[Thought Police]

46 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Away and fling shite.

No

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, 3Bigcupsoon said:

I think the point here is that nobody is requesting YOU specifically to report it or confront the culprit. 

I wouldn't want my face burst either, equally even a racist clown surely wouldn't assault someone with CCTV etc all over the place? 

Someone must sit next to these morons,if they hear this once, they report it to the Club, not everyone can know where it comes from but some must. 

If everyone does this and the club gets thousands of responses in the same area, then culprits will be identified soon enough, otherwise things are getting very busy blown out of proportion as usual. 

For the record anyone found guilty of this behaviour should be banned indefinitely. 

Think we are all agreed Racism is unacceptable but let's help the club deal with it, not just give the press a free dig. 

 

This is exactly the sort of thing for which we can use the club text message line which so many people slated.

[hmfcbilly]

Sad if his family have indeed been subject to racist comments in the stands. If people, (regardless of the team they support) are still using language like Isma quoted to describe black players then they really need to get a grip. He slightly contradicts himself IMO by saying he didn't mind being criticised for his footballing ability yet says he would receive criticism on Instagram but be hugged by Levein after a performance to say he had a great game. He strikes me as a real confidence player who maybe takes criticism on social media too personally. If true then the solution would likely be to stay off Instagram, Twitter etc!! It's too easy nowadays for folk to criticise through social media but sadly it's the world we live in.

 

Good luck at your new club Isma, I wish you well. I appreciated your efforts and didn't think you were that bad a player personally.  I think sometimes people underestimate the jump up from a st mirren or st Johnstone to joining hearts though.  Same league but the fans expectations are much higher!

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, 3Bigcupsoon said:

I think the point here is that nobody is requesting YOU specifically to report it or confront the culprit. 

I wouldn't want my face burst either, equally even a racist clown surely wouldn't assault someone with CCTV etc all over the place? 

Someone must sit next to these morons,if they hear this once, they report it to the Club, not everyone can know where it comes from but some must. 

If everyone does this and the club gets thousands of responses in the same area, then culprits will be identified soon enough, otherwise things are getting very busy blown out of proportion as usual. 

For the record anyone found guilty of this behaviour should be banned indefinitely. 

Think we are all agreed Racism is unacceptable but let's help the club deal with it, not just give the press a free dig. 

 

 

Someone did, they questioned my "courage".

 

In theory you're right, however with many things in life folk will do little unless it's very serious or impacts them directly.

 

For me, racism and secterian stuff is a reminder of how ignorant some people are, but I'm not affected and it's not that serious to me that I will take the time, effort and responsibility of reporting it.

 

Likewise, I don't report every speeding car, litter bug or person who lets their dog shite in a street, for example. Although it irks me.

 

I am an active member of a political party, as that is far more important to me and my family, I'm not taking up the racist crusade as well. No time.

 

Doesn't mean it's right tho.

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Gotta love the fairness in that.

 

Mind the time you said you beat up women? I can't prove it but I will go with it anyway.

 

What I will say and with the utmost repsect for the JKB Mods, if I at any stage said "I hated Palestinians" I can almost gaurantee you would see "BANNNED" under my username.

 

 

 

 

 

Still checking, bear with me...