Maple Leaf Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Ugly American said: Fully agreed there. The Florida state legislature just refused to reconsider a bill it had previously tabled to ban assault weapons, with Stoneman Douglass students watching from the gallery. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-gun-rules-20180220-story.html The news article doesn't give the partisan breakdown of the vote, but it was 71-36. The House is split 76-41 GOP-Dems. I'd be willing to guess it was a largely but not entirely party line vote. Hopefully the outraged citizens of Florida and elsewhere in America will maintain their anger over this, and carry that resolve right into the November elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Maple Leaf said: Hopefully the outraged citizens of Florida and elsewhere in America will maintain their anger over this, and carry that resolve right into the November elections. From your mouth to God's ears, ML. The institutional leadership of the Democratic party are a lost and scared mess at the moment. Just hoping we get a few with spine into federal and state legislatures along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Cade said: Florida politicians have refused to consider banning assault weapons but have declared porn to be a risk to public health The USA is a bad joke I obviously feel sorry for the victims and their families but when stuff like that comes out there is a small part of me which just thinks “**** them, no more sympathy from me”. Sounds horrible but it’s so frustrating that they’re not doing anything and are in total denial about their problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Trump bullshitting his way pretending to ban bump-stocks... 5 months after the Vegas massacre. Now he wants to arm teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 So when the armed police eventually turn up at the scene of a shooting, how do they tell a "good guy with a gun" from a "bad guy with a gun"? Do they just mow down anyone holding a firearm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cade said: So when the armed police eventually turn up at the scene of a shooting, how do they tell a "good guy with a gun" from a "bad guy with a gun"? Do they just mow down anyone holding a firearm? I suppose in that situation the police will hope the bad guy is black. Easier to justify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cade said: So when the armed police eventually turn up at the scene of a shooting, how do they tell a "good guy with a gun" from a "bad guy with a gun"? Do they just mow down anyone holding a firearm? Would imagine it would take a wee while to assess the situation which by that time had lapsed an innocent might have been shot. I normally dont get involved in the USA gun debates, but we all know what the answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Would imagine it would take a wee while to assess the situation which by that time had lapsed an innocent might have been shot. I normally dont get involved in the USA gun debates, but we all know what the answer is. Anyone with half a brain knows what the answer is. Unfortunately that rules out the majority of Americans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jefferson Davis Hogg said: Anyone with half a brain knows what the answer is. Unfortunately that rules out the majority of Americans The whole horrible situation is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 So what happens when the Teacher has a 'Mental Health Issue' and can't cope any longer? I've got it, arm the students. Only in America could you have a proposal put forward to protect school children which involves more guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) So we have dozens of staff members roaming around the school with loaded weapons. I don't suppose for one moment that every member of staff knows every pupil by sight. What happens if they encounter a kid they don't recognise running in the halls? Do they cut that kid down? Do they hesitate to work out if it's the shooter or someone running for their life? Do they shoot at other members of staff in the mayhem? Edited February 22, 2018 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 52 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: So what happens when the Teacher has a 'Mental Health Issue' and can't cope any longer? I've got it, arm the students. Only in America could you have a proposal put forward to protect school children which involves more guns. This, absolutely ****ing mental. "There's too many guns" "Arm more groups of people then!" It's going to take something hideous to change minds on this issue, a real shock to a national psyche that's largely used to violence on a grand scale. Unfortunately it's also almost inevitable I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I knew a fair few teachers I'm glad didn't have access to firearms at school, tragedy waiting to happen. It also surely increases the likelihood of more deaths, i.e if you know the teacher has a handgun you're more likely to bring an assault rifle etc? You'll also then have a further weapon in their hands after their death(the Florida shooter ran out of ammunition IIRC). Then there's the possibility of a student normally without having access to firearms getting the jump on a teacher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Arming teachers will almost certainly end with some poor black kid being blown away for 'acting suspiciously' while reaching for his phone. There's no logical scenario where it makes any sense whatsoever and will 100% have loads of issues which will be ignored completely because AMERICANS NEED THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Michelle Pfeiffer would sort this shit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Barack said: Teacher’s trained in Firearms usage, & hand to hand combat at Fort Bragg, with Delta. It’s the only plausible solution, really. Or just deploy the Army at American schools. I wouldn't be surprised if the NRA and their political lapdogs didn't put forward the solution to stopping mass shootings, is for every person in the USA to be carrying guns openly 24/7, that way you'd have more 'Good Guys With Guns' on the streets, in schools and workplaces than 'Bad Guys with Guns'. What possibly could go wrong with that idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The only solution is to do away with schools altogether and have virtual classrooms organised over the internet where every child takes part at home. Any place where several people gather together is ripe for a mass shooting and thus such gatherings together should be eliminated. If we can't cut off the supply of guns, we will cut off their supply of targets. Forwards to a new and safe society! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, redjambo said: The only solution is to do away with schools altogether and have virtual classrooms organised over the internet where every child takes part at home. Any place where several people gather together is ripe for a mass shooting and thus such gatherings together should be eliminated. If we can't cut off the supply of guns, we will cut off their supply of targets. Forwards to a new and safe society! What percentage of school is learning subjects and what percentage is learning to live and interact as part of a society though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Smithee said: What percentage of school is learning subjects and what percentage is learning to live and interact as part of a society though? At the last count: 73% subjects, 27% living in society. But we can learn to live in a society on the internet too - I'm interacting with you here for example. Don't you want American kids to be safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, redjambo said: At the last count: 73% subjects, 27% living in society. But we can learn to live in a society on the internet too - I'm interacting with you here for example. Don't you want American kids to be safe? Society in general sounds communist, should probably do away with that 27% completely and replace it with firearms training. Edited February 22, 2018 by Ibrahim Tall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Ibrahim Tall said: Society in general sound communist, should probably do away with that 27% completely and replace it with firearms training. Good point. Society does repress our rights to be individuals, to be free. I've been thinking. Other options could include full body armour (including head) for all school students. If only we were more technologically advanced and could develop surrogate bodies which would go to school while the students would sit at home controlling them. To all intents and purposes, the students would be "in" those bodies, would feel all the sensations that the surrogates would feel. The students would therefore not miss out on the societal aspect of learning. If a shooter took a gun to school, what harm could they do? Any damaged surrogates could just be replaced afterwards. I'm just an ideas man though. I'm sure that the Americans are intelligent enough to find some method to protect their people from mass shootings without actually getting rid of guns. The answer is out there somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, redjambo said: Good point. Society does repress our rights to be individuals, to be free. I've been thinking. Other options could include full body armour (including head) for all school students. If only we were more technologically advanced and could develop surrogate bodies which would go to school while the students would sit at home controlling them. To all intents and purposes, the students would be "in" those bodies, would feel all the sensations that the surrogates would feel. The students would therefore not miss out on the societal aspect of learning. If a shooter took a gun to school, what harm could they do? Any damaged surrogates could just be replaced afterwards. I'm just an ideas man though. I'm sure that the Americans are intelligent enough to find some method to protect their people from mass shootings without actually getting rid of guns. The answer is out there somewhere... Full body armour could work! As long as it's made by hardworking good honest god fearing Americans and not Mexicans. That way the arms industry could continue to profit despite the fall in the casualty rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Ibrahim Tall said: Full body armour could work! As long as it's made by hardworking good honest god fearing Americans and not Mexicans. That way the arms industry could continue to profit despite the fall in the casualty rate. Smart thinking! I've just had a thought though. What would they do about armour-piercing bullets? Obviously those couldn't be banned (constitutional rights etc.). It could end up in an arms race with one side continually developing stronger and stronger armour, and the other (the same?) side developing more effective armour-piercing bullets. But wait! That would mean even more jobs, long-term at that, for the arms industry and US employees. It is the perfect solution. All they would need to do is to ensure that the armour industry generally stays slightly ahead of the armour-piercing ammunition industry, perhaps with the occasional small tragedy to illustrate that more investment is urgently required on the armour side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Wayne LaPierre the head of the NRA has just given a big speech, wow simply wow, it's everybody else's fault, not guns. But there is one thing, we now know who is pulling Trump's chain, as he came out word for word about the 'Fake news media' naming CNN, the Washington Post etc etc, on about how corrupt the FBI and Justice Department is (well some parts of it), the EPA, in fact every facet of Government has been tainted and infiltrated by Obama loving socialist Democrats who along with their complicit media are spreading false stories and incorrect information about guns and the debate about gun controls and are trying to take away people's freedoms and rights. OM fecking G, if the survivors & the parents who met with Trump only yesterday thought the tide just might be changing, then that glimmer of hope has well and truly been shattered by the ranting tirade from Wayne LaPierre. Edited February 22, 2018 by Jambo-Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitonastranger Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 20/02/2018 at 21:52, bobsharp said: There was a gun salesman from Seattle on HLN this morning. He has voluntarily in his store opted to enforce a no one under 21 to be able to buy the type of rifle the Florida killer used. He stated he is a strong advocate of the 2nd Amendment, and wants to have the opportunity and does have an automatic military style rifle. He states if someone breaks into his house with an AK 15 he wants to be able to respond with equal force. I envisioned a burglar blasting in a home with an automatic weapon, and the home owner blasting back, both on full automatic, with multiple round magazines, if he lives in a subdivision as I do, with adjacent neighbours next door, behind, and in front, the carnage would be awful, what some just do not seem to realise is that the bullets do not know who they are supposed to hit, they just reach maximum velocity, and continue direction until they run out of force, somewhere in that journey there is a high possibility of them fatally striking a poor individual who is just expressing his right of freedom of movement and has nothing to do with the protector of his home or the breacher of said. I carried lethal firearms for the better part of twenty six years of my life, highly trained in military use, and regularly trained in police use, in neither situation did I ever lose the respect for how deadly these instruments could be, and the care that must be taken in handling them, I find it hard to believe that particularly but not exclusively that a person of seventeen can obtain a high powered weapon,and without serious training such as I had appreciate just the power you have at hand. Vegas shooter and others were older than 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 ****s sake. Arm Teachers? So deal with the gun problem by having more people with guns? Christ sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King prawn Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: ****s sake. Arm Teachers? So deal with the gun problem by having more people with guns? Christ sake. If everyone has got them.. no one has. Nope, definitely doesn't sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said: Vegas shooter and others were older than 17 I am sorry but I am not sure I am getting the point of your post, I tried to suggest that regardless of age training in my mind is essential, and that would include advising the devastation automatic weapons could create. I was also a bit critical of the salesman who was suggesting if an armed felon entered his house illegally armed with a weapon he would respond with his automatic weapon. I shudder to think of the serious damage this could cause to innocents sitting quietly in their house and being besieged by flying ammunition. Surprisingly enough I am aware of the age of the shooter in Las Vergas, and I am aware thtat the police did not return fire as the risk of harming residents in other rooms from the distance they were firing was high, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, bobsharp said: I am sorry but I am not sure I am getting the point of your post, I tried to suggest that regardless of age training in my mind is essential, and that would include advising the devastation automatic weapons could create. I was also a bit critical of the salesman who was suggesting if an armed felon entered his house illegally armed with a weapon he would respond with his automatic weapon. I shudder to think of the serious damage this could cause to innocents sitting quietly in their house and being besieged by flying ammunition. Surprisingly enough I am aware of the age of the shooter in Las Vergas, and I am aware thtat the police did not return fire as the risk of harming residents in other rooms from the distance they were firing was high, i think the poster was saying, that the gun shop owner you posted about not selling to u21s would not have had an effect as the vegas shooter and others were older that 21. I dont think he was having a go just showing that the gun shop owners policy would not have done anything to prevent some shooters getting a hold of their weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, milky_26 said: i think the poster was saying, that the gun shop owner you posted about not selling to u21s would not have had an effect as the vegas shooter and others were older that 21. I dont think he was having a go just showing that the gun shop owners policy would not have done anything to prevent some shooters getting a hold of their weapons I was quite sincere when I started with I am sorry, and explained I didn't understand his comment, I thought it best to give a complete response to avoid any doubt and indeed as happens unpleasantness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gordons Gloves Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 13:24, alwaysthereinspirit said: It'll never change. Not in our life time anyway. You obviously have many friends based on your location who "love" guns. I know I do. I personally don't get it. Maybe because of where I was brought up I was never around them so have never felt comfortable around them. I've never fired or even held a gun. They do nothing for me. I get that other people can feel different towards them. Some Americans grew up with them and just see it as a right of passage or a coming of age. Getting to go hunting with the adults for the first time is huge for younger family members. Many states have a hunting season for a reason. Animal control and the likes. Fine. But living in suburban Florida and having access to an AR-15 at 18/19 should never be seen as the norm. Columbine, Sandy Hook and Last weeks shooting were perpetrated by teenagers who should never have been able to look at a gun let alone own one. There's a problem in America that needs fixed but wont be. Sadly - your first 2 sentences are close to the truth (your whole post is tbh) Hunting is huge here and i have many friends that look at deer camp as the best time of year. Ironically, almost every one of them that i have spoken to about guns would not be phased by some form of control on purchase or register of ownership. It's my experience - both here and in the UK that the hunting/shooting group are among the most responsible when it comes to gun onwership. I grew up in the country and worked on a grouse/pheasant estate. I was taught to shoot in my teens (clays) and i've had no desire to shoot a gun since tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I also learned to shoot at a young age. Started with air rifles then clays. My uncle owned a clay pigeon shooting place. I was taught the dangers of guns, knew that he had to have all the guns locked away and accounted for and had to have an alarm directly connected to the polis. That can't have been cheap but is part and parcel of handling guns in the UK. Over here it seems to be much less controlled. I've been here for 18 months and am probably used to seeing coppers carrying guns by now and virtually every day there's something on the news about some poor ******* being blown away in West or North Philly so it really doesn't make much of an impact. This is probably why folk make that argument about "bad guys" still being able to get their hands on guns. I spent time in the Deep South and remember being taken to a shooting range. Turned up there and this seemingly normal guy opened up the boot of his car to reveal a small arsenal. All legal - the only thing that wasn't strictly legal was us using them, but the shooting range was unmanned. About half an hour after getting there someone else turned up, took basically a tommy gun and set it up on a table and started shooting it. I've never heard so much noise in my life. Thankfully none of the folk there were mental, at least at that time, and I must say I enjoyed shooting the shotguns and rifles but the tommy gun thing was terrifying. Having lived here for a while, there's no way you're going to get rid of guns completely but something has to be done about semi-automatic weapons being legally available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Here's Donny Trump signing an executive order that repealed an Obama-era law requiring tougher restrictions on gun ownership for people with mental health issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Cade said: Here's Donny Trump signing an executive order that repealed an Obama-era law requiring tougher restrictions on gun ownership for people with mental health issues. He looks very proud of himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, bertracoon said: I also learned to shoot at a young age. Started with air rifles then clays. My uncle owned a clay pigeon shooting place. I was taught the dangers of guns, knew that he had to have all the guns locked away and accounted for and had to have an alarm directly connected to the polis. That can't have been cheap but is part and parcel of handling guns in the UK. Had a mate whom I used to work with, he had 2 shotguns and a hunting rifle with scope, not sure of the calibre but it was bigger than a .22, possibly a .303, anyway he did a bit of pest control (Foxes mostly) for some local farmers, well not only did he have to have the shotguns and rifle locked away, but the Police insisted that they were in a metal cabinet fixed to a wall, also he had to keep the shells & bullets locked away separately from the guns, preferably not even stored in the same room as the guns, only then and once the Police had been to his house and viewed all of the security measures, would they grant/re-new his gun licence and he had to go through this inspection every year. Meanwhile in America an 18 year old guy who in many instances isn't old enough to purchase alcohol can walk into a gun store and less than 30 minutes later walk out with an AR-15 Assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and folks wonder why there are mass shootings in America, the simple fact is, it's way too easy to get a gun in the USA, that's the simple truth of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 An underpaid, overworked and shit-scared Home Economics teacher is going to take down a determined attacker carrying out a co-ordinated plan of mass-murder? Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: but the Police insisted that they were in a metal cabinet fixed to a wall, It's the law in this country that theatres must have the same set up if they are using replica weapons in shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Tazio said: It's the law in this country that theatres must have the same set up if they are using replica weapons in shows. Replicas need to be locked away as well, didn't know that. An interview just there on Sky News and it says it all. Here in the UK and probably every other country in the World hold periodic 'Fire Drills' in their schools. In American schools they hold 'Active Shooter Drills', any American's reading this, just stop and think about that for a minute or two and realise that America is probably the only country on earth to hold 'Active shooter drills' on a regular monthly/weekly basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: An underpaid, overworked and shit-scared Home Economics teacher is going to take down a determined attacker carrying out a co-ordinated plan of mass-murder? Okay. Yes. Just like Bubba from Houston is going to take on the entire US army if he thinks the government is too controlling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I just watched the Broward County Sheriff advise the world that one of his deputies was on duty at the sc hool,armed in uniform and delegated to provide security for the children therein. This man then failed to do as policy dictates in this event not wait for cover, the only action mandated was for him to enter the school and confront the shooter, he did not. An act of cowardice that I am sure can be punished by legal action, but as a soldier and a policeman can think of no punishment greater than adjudging yourself as a coward, and having on your conscience that your cowardice could have resulted in numerous deaths. I cannot in my severe criticism say that I have been in a situation such as this, I have been police wise in numerous situations where I felt that the potential for severe injury could occur, but tremulous as I might have been was more concerned about the disgrace if I didn't do what I had to. I appreciate the level of occurrence that this man, Scott Peterson was involved in, during infantry training at Pirbright we were subjected to two training components. One daylight situation where we crawled face down to a location whilst bren guns mounted on fixed stands were firing rounds in rapid mode above us, even more frightening at night which was the second phase when some of the shells were tracers, you just wondered how could you survive being part of an attack when those rounds were actually being aimed at you, you did because in the training you were made well aware how many men before you had done just that, and if you failed you were letting them down. hence the phrase Death before Dishonour. It is even worse as I see it in this case where teachers, and some students bravely sacrificed their own lives that others may live, and the only man that was there mandated to do so if necessary failed to answer the call. I have reread this post, and can read my emotion in it, it would be simple for me to erase and start again, but then I would be doing exactly what I am criticising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, bobsharp said: I just watched the Broward County Sheriff advise the world that one of his deputies was on duty at the sc hool,armed in uniform and delegated to provide security for the children therein. This man then failed to do as policy dictates in this event not wait for cover, the only action mandated was for him to enter the school and confront the shooter, he did not. An act of cowardice that I am sure can be punished by legal action, but as a soldier and a policeman can think of no punishment greater than adjudging yourself as a coward, and having on your conscience that your cowardice could have resulted in numerous deaths. I cannot in my severe criticism say that I have been in a situation such as this, I have been police wise in numerous situations where I felt that the potential for severe injury could occur, but tremulous as I might have been was more concerned about the disgrace if I didn't do what I had to. I appreciate the level of occurrence that this man, Scott Peterson was involved in, during infantry training at Pirbright we were subjected to two training components. One daylight situation where we crawled face down to a location whilst bren guns mounted on fixed stands were firing rounds in rapid mode above us, even more frightening at night which was the second phase when some of the shells were tracers, you just wondered how could you survive being part of an attack when those rounds were actually being aimed at you, you did because in the training you were made well aware how many men before you had done just that, and if you failed you were letting them down. hence the phrase Death before Dishonour. It is even worse as I see it in this case where teachers, and some students bravely sacrificed their own lives that others may live, and the only man that was there mandated to do so if necessary failed to answer the call. I have reread this post, and can read my emotion in it, it would be simple for me to erase and start again, but then I would be doing exactly what I am criticising. If a trained law enforcement officer took the decision to keep himself out of harms way, then how the **** are teachers supposed to act rationally and return fire if these geniuses get their way and decide to try and arm teachers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, bertracoon said: If a trained law enforcement officer took the decision to keep himself out of harms way, then how the **** are teachers supposed to act rationally and return fire if these geniuses get their way and decide to try and arm teachers? That's what I was thinking, a trained police officer thinks "**** that!" but old Susan from Home Economics is supposed to take them out . No thanks . (For the record I'm aware that's Seung-Hui Cho the Virginia Tech shooter and not Nikolas Cruz, so don't bother pointing that out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 hours ago, peter_hmfc said: That's what I was thinking, a trained police officer thinks "**** that!" but old Susan from Home Economics is supposed to take them out . No thanks . (For the record I'm aware that's Seung-Hui Cho the Virginia Tech shooter and not Nikolas Cruz, so don't bother pointing that out.) Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Kinda also shows that having armed guard/s isn't always the answer either as you'll always have the possibility that they'll crap it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 exactly in what kind of world does Trump live in if he thinks arming the Geography and Home Economics teachers would have prevented this? the shooters would just go for the teachers first and then the pupils anyway With the dimwit Trump and the ranting maniac from the NRA in charge God help Americans in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: exactly in what kind of world does Trump live in if he thinks arming the Geography and Home Economics teachers would have prevented this? the shooters would just go for the teachers first and then the pupils anyway With the dimwit Trump and the ranting maniac from the NRA in charge God help Americans in the future More worrying is about some stressed out teacher finally getting totally P'd off and pulling the gun on their pupils. far more likely than Mr Smith from Physics dept going all Bruce Willis and taking down a youth in full body armour carrying an assault rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Mental that the guard is being hung out to dry by his superiors. I should know better by now but sometimes the lack of compassion and downright insanity in that country still takes my breath away. He's basically being called a coward because he didn't martyr himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 15 hours ago, bobsharp said: I just watched the Broward County Sheriff advise the world that one of his deputies was on duty at the sc hool,armed in uniform and delegated to provide security for the children therein. This man then failed to do as policy dictates in this event not wait for cover, the only action mandated was for him to enter the school and confront the shooter, he did not. An act of cowardice that I am sure can be punished by legal action, but as a soldier and a policeman can think of no punishment greater than adjudging yourself as a coward, and having on your conscience that your cowardice could have resulted in numerous deaths. I cannot in my severe criticism say that I have been in a situation such as this, I have been police wise in numerous situations where I felt that the potential for severe injury could occur, but tremulous as I might have been was more concerned about the disgrace if I didn't do what I had to. I appreciate the level of occurrence that this man, Scott Peterson was involved in, during infantry training at Pirbright we were subjected to two training components. One daylight situation where we crawled face down to a location whilst bren guns mounted on fixed stands were firing rounds in rapid mode above us, even more frightening at night which was the second phase when some of the shells were tracers, you just wondered how could you survive being part of an attack when those rounds were actually being aimed at you, you did because in the training you were made well aware how many men before you had done just that, and if you failed you were letting them down. hence the phrase Death before Dishonour. It is even worse as I see it in this case where teachers, and some students bravely sacrificed their own lives that others may live, and the only man that was there mandated to do so if necessary failed to answer the call. I have reread this post, and can read my emotion in it, it would be simple for me to erase and start again, but then I would be doing exactly what I am criticising. Would not say this guy was a coward, not by a long stretch. Though the public who have not been confronted with their own death will probably damn him as such. you cannot know how you would respond in a real shooter scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Mental that the guard is being hung out to dry by his superiors. I should know better by now but sometimes the lack of compassion and downright insanity in that country still takes my breath away. He's basically being called a coward because he didn't martyr himself. Scapegoat. Now we've got the guard, violent video games and the FBI. Conveniently detracts from the real issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Mental that the guard is being hung out to dry by his superiors. I should know better by now but sometimes the lack of compassion and downright insanity in that country still takes my breath away. He's basically being called a coward because he didn't martyr himself. It's just a distraction. Guns aren't the problem folks, that one guy not putting himself in the line of fire is the problem. Focus on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.