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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

The generally accepted solution to this is the Australian model of a buyback.

 

 

Gun control polls very well among the general populace, but the minority of gun nuts vote on gun control and nothing else. (I had a coworker who openly admitted that he voted for whomever the NRA told him to.)  So Republicans pay a huge penalty if they don't toe the line, and there's less of a bonus for them if they cross it.

Am I correct in saying that under state law he wasn't old enough to buy alcohol?

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1 hour ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

That's not the answer I was looking for but not overly surprised.

Your supercilious, pompous attitude has been your norm on here lately.

 

The next time I get an ounce of good faith from you in an argument regarding American politics, I'll be sure to return you a pound of the same. Sound good?

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1 hour ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

There should be no argument, convincing or otherwise on why this or anything remotely alike should be sold to the public.

There are obviously people out there who will explain it to you in great detail. They'll be 100% wrong.

Its absolutely disgusting.

 

Exactly, why does anyone outwith the Military or Law Enforcement have any use for an Assault Rifle.

Guns such as these should not be legally available to the General Public, even if they were withdrawn from sale tomorrow it wouldn't be an infringement upon peoples perceived rights under the 2nd Amendment, as folks can still buy and own guns, just not these type of guns.  

 

50 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Am I correct in saying that under state law he wasn't old enough to buy alcohol?

 

Indeed you are correct, old enough to buy an Assault Rifle but not old enough to buy a beer. 

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1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Am I correct in saying that under state law he wasn't old enough to buy alcohol?

 

I haven't seen his age, but in all likelihood, yes. Alcohol age is 21. In most states, guns is 18.

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The Real Maroonblood
11 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

I haven't seen his age, but in all likelihood, yes. Alcohol age is 21. In most states, guns is 18.

Thanks for that.

He is 19 years old.

He can't buy alcohol but he can buy firearms.:facepalm:

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Just got this off twitter.  A couple of years ago some people with fancy letters after their names broke down state-by-state regulations to see what made the most difference.

 

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)01026-0/abstract

 

Quote

Projected federal-level implementation of universal background checks for firearm purchase could reduce national firearm mortality from 10·35 to 4·46 deaths per 100 000 people, background checks for ammunition purchase could reduce it to 1·99 per 100 000, and firearm identification to 1·81 per 100 000.

 

In other words, some basic federal background checks plus firearm identification could save almost 20,000 lives each year in the US, but we won't do it.

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Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

The generally accepted solution to this is the Australian model of a buyback.

 

 

Gun control polls very well among the general populace, but the minority of gun nuts vote on gun control and nothing else. (I had a coworker who openly admitted that he voted for whomever the NRA told him to.)  So Republicans pay a huge penalty if they don't toe the line, and there's less of a bonus for them if they cross it.

 

Really? Solution? Who's generally accepted one? Maybe in the University Library or "safe places" but I doubt with over 300 million weapons in circulation that it would have a snowballs chance in hell of being any solution let alone your generally accepted one. 

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15 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Really? Solution? Who's generally accepted one? Maybe in the University Library or "safe places" but I doubt with over 300 million weapons in circulation that it would have a snowballs chance in hell of being any solution let alone your generally accepted one. 

 

"Generally accepted solution" was probably poor phrasing, but it's a solution that worked in Australia which at the time had a very large number of guns per capita. But they've been proven to work to draw down circulating gun stocks.

 

Also, guns don't last forever. You don't have to buy back 300 million. A lot of those in circulation will break or become otherwise unusable for other reasons.

 

It's also notable that there's more than one gun per person in the US but even after a strong up-tick, only 47% of US households have a gun at home. A lot of those guns are held by collectors who own dozens.

 

Really could do without the snide remarks though. What is it with conservatives commenting on American politics on this site that brings that out so much?

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alwaysthereinspirit

Could have sworn there was a page 4 on this thread. Maybe its the weather screwing up my internet. There was rumours of a chance of snowflakes later.

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1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

"Generally accepted solution" was probably poor phrasing, but it's a solution that worked in Australia which at the time had a very large number of guns per capita. But they've been proven to work to draw down circulating gun stocks.

 

Also, guns don't last forever. You don't have to buy back 300 million. A lot of those in circulation will break or become otherwise unusable for other reasons.

 

It's also notable that there's more than one gun per person in the US but even after a strong up-tick, only 47% of US households have a gun at home. A lot of those guns are held by collectors who own dozens.

 

Really could do without the snide remarks though. What is it with conservatives commenting on American politics on this site that brings that out so much?

 

Australia didn't have the 2nd Amendment nor the all powerful NRA to contend with, neither did the UK when after the Dunblane school massacre we banned the private ownership of handguns.

 

The ownership of guns is entwined into the American psyche, you'd have to change that mindset first before any meaningful change could happen.

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2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Australia didn't have the 2nd Amendment nor the all powerful NRA to contend with, neither did the UK when after the Dunblane school massacre we banned the private ownership of handguns.

 

The ownership of guns is entwined into the American psyche, you'd have to change that mindset first before any meaningful change could happen.

 

The American psyche is a complex and diverse thing. As its response to the Philando Castile episode tragically demonstrated, the NRA is not a politically or racially neutral organization. Breaking their stranglehold won't be easy, but I have to hope that we can do it.

 

One of the first steps though is breaking the "nothing to be done" argument. Gun buybacks probably are a bridge too far, but as the Lancet article above shows (or at least the abstract says it shows, which is all I can see), background checks and gun ID laws could do an enormous amount.

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41 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The ownership of guns is entwined into the American psyche, you'd have to change that mindset first before any meaningful change could happen.

 

 

That's why the emphasis shouldn't be on ownership itself but the fact that ownership should be tied to responsibility. A responsible owner shouldn't mind their guns being registered, rigorous background checks being carried out, having to attend responsible gun ownership training courses, certain categories of guns not being allowed off registered ranges etc. etc.

 

If the NRA really wanted to, it could promote this idea of responsible ownership (and not some empty mantra like they probably do at the moment, but real changes to the way things are currently handled). But they won't do that because anything that may affect the sale of guns and ammunition affects their profits, and they ain't having none of that, no siree.

 

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Let's take Scotland and the USA. 1996 Scotland watches in horror as news filteres  through that a lone gunman has run amok killing 16 persons mainly children at Dunblane primary school. No such incident has taken place again to date. That is now 22 years ago. USA 2018. 18 school shootings to date and it's only February the 16th. Perharps the USA should have a conflab with Scotland?

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3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's why the emphasis shouldn't be on ownership itself but the fact that ownership should be tied to responsibility. A responsible owner shouldn't mind their guns being registered, rigorous background checks being carried out, having to attend responsible gun ownership training courses, certain categories of guns not being allowed off registered ranges etc. etc.

 

If the NRA really wanted to, it could promote this idea of responsible ownership (and not some empty mantra like they probably do at the moment, but real changes to the way things are currently handled). But they won't do that because anything that may affect the sale of guns and ammunition affects their profits, and they ain't having none of that, no siree.

 

 

Agree with all you say, nobody apart from the NRA & some politicians are bothered about proper checks being carried out of people wanting to purchase a gun and the reason is purely down to dollar bills and the more the better.

 

I think that the church could have a huge influence on this matter and be more pro-active.

If the American church's jointly took a moral stance and said enough is enough and called for meaningful gun controls, then would the NRA or politicians go against the church?

America is a deeply religious country and the church is still very powerful in large areas of the country, maybe the church needs to use that power and call for change.

 

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Space Mackerel
2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Let's take Scotland and the USA. 1996 Scotland watches in horror as news filteres  through that a lone gunman has run amok killing 16 persons mainly children at Dunblane primary school. No such incident has taken place again to date. That is now 22 years ago. USA 2018. 18 school shootings to date and it's only February the 16th. Perharps the USA should have a conflab with Scotland?

 

But the Americans need their assault rifles to defend themselves from government M1 Abraham tanks and Apache gunships. 

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1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Agree with all you say, nobody apart from the NRA & some politicians are bothered about proper checks being carried out of people wanting to purchase a gun and the reason is purely down to dollar bills and the more the better.

 

I think that the church could have a huge influence on this matter and be more pro-active.

If the American church's jointly took a moral stance and said enough is enough and called for meaningful gun controls, then would the NRA or politicians go against the church?

America is a deeply religious country and the church is still very powerful in large areas of the country, maybe the church needs to use that power and call for change.

 

 

Agreed, but the church also needs money, very often from the same people...

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4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Let's take Scotland and the USA. 1996 Scotland watches in horror as news filteres  through that a lone gunman has run amok killing 16 persons mainly children at Dunblane primary school. No such incident has taken place again to date. That is now 22 years ago. USA 2018. 18 school shootings to date and it's only February the 16th. Perharps the USA should have a conflab with Scotland?

 

Also in 1996 there was the Port Arthur massacre in Australia and in the aftermath of that strict gun controls were introduced in Australia.

 

Now by some strange coincidence since 1996 neither the UK or Australia has had any mass shootings apart from terrorist attacks, mmm let me think what the reason for that could be.

 

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5 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

There should be no argument, convincing or otherwise on why this or anything remotely alike should be sold to the public.

There are obviously people out there who will explain it to you in great detail. They'll be 100% wrong.

Its absolutely disgusting.

 

In it's legally sold state (i.e. semi-automatic not fully) it is no more or less lethal at short range than any other type of gun. So why do you find it disgusting that this can be sold, but no other type of gun?

 

A lot of Americans like shooting simply as a hobby/past-time, and for some people, the bigger the gun, the better the enjoyment. I've shot an AR-15, and i'll say I quite enjoyed the experience to be honest. 

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Space Mackerel
3 minutes ago, trotter said:

 

In it's legally sold state (i.e. semi-automatic not fully) it is no more or less lethal at short range than any other type of gun. So why do you find it disgusting that this can be sold, but no other type of gun?

 

A lot of Americans like shooting simply as a hobby/past-time, and for some people, the bigger the gun, the better the enjoyment. I've shot an AR-15, and i'll say I quite enjoyed the experience to be honest. 

 

How would you rate your experience getting chased, unarmed by a psychotic nutter armed with one around a school or nightclub? 

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SpruceBringsteen

Folk who "like" guns are absolute oddballs. There's no "but but but" here. It's a fetish every bit as peculiar as the ones some people are put on certain types of register for.

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4 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Thanks for that.

He is 19 years old.

He can't buy alcohol but he can buy firearms.:facepalm:

 

If you can buy guns at 18, not having access to alcohol is probably a good thing to be fair

 

 

:facepalm:

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6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Agreed, but the church also needs money, very often from the same people...

 

And so the circle of violence and killings continue.

 

I heard someone ask what it would take before America woke up and put a stop to this carnage, and I have to say, I'm struggling to think of something so abhorrent and of such magnitude as it would change the American obsession with guns.  There is one massacre I can think off, but I'm not going to mention what it is on an open forum, but then again if the Sandy Hook massacre didn't effect change, then if it ever happened then it probably wouldn't make any difference either.  

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2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

How would you rate your experience getting chased, unarmed by a psychotic nutter armed with one around a school or nightclub? 

 

Not something I say I would enjoy to be fair.

 

Can I just add that I am in no way condoing these events. It's absolutely horrible when it's adults, never mind children. AITS was asking why such things can be sold, and I was attempting to explain the reason why they are. I also maintain, that a rifle isn't any more or less lethal in a given set of circumstances than a handgun, so why would does he specifically seem to hate them? It's a reasonable question I thought. 

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Space Mackerel
1 minute ago, trotter said:

 

Not something I say I would enjoy to be fair.

 

Can I just add that I am in no way condoing these events. It's absolutely horrible when it's adults, never mind children. AITS was asking why such things can be sold, and I was attempting to explain the reason why they are. I also maintain, that a rifle isn't any more or less lethal in a given set of circumstances than a handgun, so why would does he specifically seem to hate them? It's a reasonable question I thought. 

 

I get you, but these types of weapons have been developed for modern military battle. Even the ammunition is too. 

You can go to former Soviet states and blat off a few rounds if that’s your thing. 

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2 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Could have sworn there was a page 4 on this thread. Maybe its the weather screwing up my internet. There was rumours of a chance of snowflakes later.

 

On a side note away from guns, the "snowflakes" noise is incredibly cringeworthy.

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1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

But the Americans need their assault rifles to defend themselves from government M1 Abraham tanks and Apache gunships. 

 

That's one thing I can't get around, they want AR-15's and uncle Joe to take on a military they themselves believe to be the greatest in the world. Come ahead.

 

The police had a tank at the Parkland high school ffs :rofl: .

Edited by peter_hmfc
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39 minutes ago, trotter said:

 

Not something I say I would enjoy to be fair.

 

Can I just add that I am in no way condoing these events. It's absolutely horrible when it's adults, never mind children. AITS was asking why such things can be sold, and I was attempting to explain the reason why they are. I also maintain, that a rifle isn't any more or less lethal in a given set of circumstances than a handgun, so why would does he specifically seem to hate them? It's a reasonable question I thought. 

 

Hunting rifles are for shooting large animals. Shotguns are for shooting birds. These guns have an acceptable use. 

 

Assault rifles and handguns are for one purpose, shooting people. 

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1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Also in 1996 there was the Port Arthur massacre in Australia and in the aftermath of that strict gun controls were introduced in Australia.

 

Now by some strange coincidence since 1996 neither the UK or Australia has had any mass shootings apart from terrorist attacks, mmm let me think what the reason for that could be.

 

 

Cumbria shootings killed 12 :peepwall:  in 2010.

Apart from that though there's been none that had 4+ victims.

 

To go back the last 3 mass shootings in the UK you need to go back to 1987 and Hungerford. To go back 3 mass shootings in the USA you need to go back to January 28th (where they actually had two in one day).

Edited by peter_hmfc
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30 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

That's one thing I can't get around, they want AR-15's and uncle Joe to take on a military they themselves believe to be the greatest in the world. Come ahead.

 

The police had a tank at the Parkland high school ffs :rofl: .

 

That armoured vehicle thing is a common sight even here in Canada when special weapons teams are activated.  Still remember the night we were briefed about raiding a home in Bingham where information was received that an armed felon was there.  We were told they couldn't find the key for the armory, but we could draw our sticks in advance.  Now almost every night I turn on the news and there are police with armored vehicle, military style helmets and wearing armoured vests and carrying automatic weapons. I bet they are even allowed to draw their sticks without permission.

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alwaysthereinspirit
2 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

On a side note away from guns, the "snowflakes" noise is incredibly cringeworthy.

I guess you had to be there.

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alwaysthereinspirit
3 hours ago, trotter said:

 

In it's legally sold state (i.e. semi-automatic not fully) it is no more or less lethal at short range than any other type of gun. So why do you find it disgusting that this can be sold, but no other type of gun?

 

A lot of Americans like shooting simply as a hobby/past-time, and for some people, the bigger the gun, the better the enjoyment. I've shot an AR-15, and i'll say I quite enjoyed the experience to be honest. 

I didn’t say I didn’t find other guns just as disgusting. I was just quoting a post with that said gun in the photo shown. 

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9 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

Cumbria shootings killed 12 :peepwall:  in 2010.

Apart from that though there's been none that had 4+ victims.

 

To go back the last 3 mass shootings in the UK you need to go back to 1987 and Hungerford. To go back 3 mass shootings in the USA you need to go back to January 28th (where they actually had two in one day).

 

I'd forgotten about Cumbria.

 

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fuckoff.jpg

 

There are not enough cornette.pngs in the world to respond to this properly, and I'm completely exhausted of trying to deal with this mindset. (I said as much in my reply.) But in case you had any doubt whatsoever, there it is, in all its glory, glory hallelujah, god bless murrica, land of the FREE.

 

F***ing disgusting and shameful.

 

Edit: For clarity, the "country" I'm referring to above is Scotland, not the UK, and I also explained as much in my brief reply.

Edited by Justin Z
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On 17/02/2018 at 10:07, Mauricio Pinilla said:

It's a complete waste of time trying to argue with them. Just leave them to it.

 

This is where I'm at. Their only solution is to pray more and they refuse to get into any meaningful discussion over the topic of guns.

 

I've seen this as a response to one post: "why would we want no guns like the UK when their taxes are so high"

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The scenes on TV of the survivor kids castigating the politicians for their lack of action on gun controls were heart-breaking.  The politicians deserved all the criticism they got.

 

But those kids should also have been hurling their criticism at their parents.

 

During the Presidential campaign, Donald Trump was a strong supporter of the NRA, and the NRA was a strong supporter of Donald Trump.

 

Donald Trump won Florida in 2016, and he got their 29 Electoral College votes as a result, which helped elect him to the Presidency.  Florida wanted a gun-loving President, and Florida got what they wanted.

 

If they people of Florida, or anywhere else in the USA, want a change in the gun laws, it starts at the ballot box.

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On 2/18/2018 at 23:35, Maple Leaf said:

The scenes on TV of the survivor kids castigating the politicians for their lack of action on gun controls were heart-breaking.  The politicians deserved all the criticism they got.

 

But those kids should also have been hurling their criticism at their parents.

 

During the Presidential campaign, Donald Trump was a strong supporter of the NRA, and the NRA was a strong supporter of Donald Trump.

 

Donald Trump won Florida in 2016, and he got their 29 Electoral College votes as a result, which helped elect him to the Presidency.  Florida wanted a gun-loving President, and Florida got what they wanted.

 

If they people of Florida, or anywhere else in the USA, want a change in the gun laws, it starts at the ballot box.

 

They live in Broward County, which like all of the broader Miami/SE Florida area is staunchly Democratic.

 

And now some absolute lowlifes are smearing the students. And the Sandy Hook Truthers are already starting to claim it didn't happen.

 

 

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Craig Gordons Gloves

I've been here 11 and a bit years now and in that time there have been well over 300 mass shootings (to use the correct term) including Sandy Hook, Pulse, Las Vegas,  Virginia Tech and many others that have been forgotten and consigned to history.   Nothing has changed in the aftermath of all of these and sadly, its more than likely nothing will change in the aftermath of this one - although it is possible that we'll now see teachers being armed since the shift/narrative has moved on to "protecting our schools" as opposed to acting sensibly on the fact that guns are freely available to anyone that wants them.  

 

I do love the various excuses that i hear for gun violence.

 

1) Mental health - yes, people do have mental health issues - not just in the US, yet the vast majority of other countries don't have mass shootings because those with mental health issues can't get easy access to guns.

2) Cars kill more people than guns are we going to ban them too? Yes, they do.  However,  a car is designed to transport people from a to b, similarly, cars are heavily regulated. Guns are designed to kill things and aren't regulated much. Also, the majority of deaths caused by cars are the result of an accident.

3) Video games cause violence - see 1 

4) Bad people will always get guns.  No, they actually won't.  See Australia and GB as examples of a lack of mass shootings.  Then, if 'bad' people do get guns, they invariably use them on each other rather than unsuspecting children or adults.

5) It's because god was taken out of public life in schools and government - again, see 1.

 

 

There are many more, and you can see examples of all of these arguments and counter arguments all over twitter, the news and the web.  I just find it incredibly frustrating that the country that i choose to live in, the one where my kids were born and has so many positives about it can't see beyond blithely trying to weakly treat a few symptoms of a problem rather than the cause.  

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8 minutes ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

I've been here 11 and a bit years now and in that time there have been well over 300 mass shootings (to use the correct term) including Sandy Hook, Pulse, Las Vegas,  Virginia Tech and many others that have been forgotten and consigned to history.   Nothing has changed in the aftermath of all of these and sadly, its more than likely nothing will change in the aftermath of this one - although it is possible that we'll now see teachers being armed since the shift/narrative has moved on to "protecting our schools" as opposed to acting sensibly on the fact that guns are freely available to anyone that wants them.  

 

I do love the various excuses that i hear for gun violence.

 

1) Mental health - yes, people do have mental health issues - not just in the US, yet the vast majority of other countries don't have mass shootings because those with mental health issues can't get easy access to guns.

2) Cars kill more people than guns are we going to ban them too? Yes, they do.  However,  a car is designed to transport people from a to b, similarly, cars are heavily regulated. Guns are designed to kill things and aren't regulated much. Also, the majority of deaths caused by cars are the result of an accident.

3) Video games cause violence - see 1 

4) Bad people will always get guns.  No, they actually won't.  See Australia and GB as examples of a lack of mass shootings.  Then, if 'bad' people do get guns, they invariably use them on each other rather than unsuspecting children or adults.

5) It's because god was taken out of public life in schools and government - again, see 1.

 

 

There are many more, and you can see examples of all of these arguments and counter arguments all over twitter, the news and the web.  I just find it incredibly frustrating that the country that i choose to live in, the one where my kids were born and has so many positives about it can't see beyond blithely trying to weakly treat a few symptoms of a problem rather than the cause.  

 

And when they do in the UK, it's usually shotguns and single shot bolt action hunting rifles, not assault rifles capable of firing hundreds of rounds a minute with the aid of a simple modification.

 

A modification which was being offered for sale with 10% off it if you used the coupon code MAGA.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/18/rapid-fire-rifle-device-on-special-offer-in-salute-to-donald-trump

 

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alwaysthereinspirit
5 minutes ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

I've been here 11 and a bit years now and in that time there have been well over 300 mass shootings (to use the correct term) including Sandy Hook, Pulse, Las Vegas,  Virginia Tech and many others that have been forgotten and consigned to history.   Nothing has changed in the aftermath of all of these and sadly, its more than likely nothing will change in the aftermath of this one - although it is possible that we'll now see teachers being armed since the shift/narrative has moved on to "protecting our schools" as opposed to acting sensibly on the fact that guns are freely available to anyone that wants them.  

 

I do love the various excuses that i hear for gun violence.

 

1) Mental health - yes, people do have mental health issues - not just in the US, yet the vast majority of other countries don't have mass shootings because those with mental health issues can't get easy access to guns.

2) Cars kill more people than guns are we going to ban them too? Yes, they do.  However,  a car is designed to transport people from a to b, similarly, cars are heavily regulated. Guns are designed to kill things and aren't regulated much. Also, the majority of deaths caused by cars are the result of an accident.

3) Video games cause violence - see 1 

4) Bad people will always get guns.  No, they actually won't.  See Australia and GB as examples of a lack of mass shootings.  Then, if 'bad' people do get guns, they invariably use them on each other rather than unsuspecting children or adults.

5) It's because god was taken out of public life in schools and government - again, see 1.

 

 

There are many more, and you can see examples of all of these arguments and counter arguments all over twitter, the news and the web.  I just find it incredibly frustrating that the country that i choose to live in, the one where my kids were born and has so many positives about it can't see beyond blithely trying to weakly treat a few symptoms of a problem rather than the cause.  

It'll never change. Not in our life time anyway. You obviously have many friends based on your location who "love" guns. I know I do. I personally don't get it. Maybe because of where I was brought up I was never around them so have never felt comfortable around them. I've never fired or even held a gun. They do nothing for me.

I get that other people can feel different towards them. Some Americans grew up with them and just see it as a right of passage or a coming of age. Getting to go hunting with the adults for the first time is huge for younger family members. Many states have a hunting season for a reason. Animal control and the likes. Fine.

But living in suburban Florida and having access to an AR-15 at 18/19 should never be seen as the norm. Columbine, Sandy Hook and Last weeks shooting were perpetrated by teenagers who should never have been able to look at a gun let alone own one. There's a problem in America that needs fixed but wont be.

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1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

They live in Broward County, which like all of the broader Miami/SE Florida area is staunchly Democratic.

 

 

 

I guess that the point I was trying to make, is that Florida elected a gun-friendly President when they voted for Donald Trump.

 

Florida also elected a gun-friendly governor, Rick Scott, who was endorsed by the NRA.    They also elected NRA-friendly Marco Rubio to the Senate.

 

And about 10 Congressmen from Florida have accepted donations from the NRA.

 

It's possible for individual states to enact gun control laws regardless of anything done by the Federal government.  But that won't happen in Florida because Floridians have elected people who have no interest in changing the current situation.

 

That's why I said that the pleas by the teenage survivors would be better directed at their parents, not the politicians.  The scumbags currently in office need to be voted out.

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2 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I guess that the point I was trying to make, is that Florida elected a gun-friendly President when they voted for Donald Trump.

 

Florida also elected a gun-friendly governor, Rick Scott, who was endorsed by the NRA.    They also elected NRA-friendly Marco Rubio to the Senate.

 

And about 10 Congressmen from Florida have accepted donations from the NRA.

 

It's possible for individual states to enact gun control laws regardless of anything done by the Federal government.  But that won't happen in Florida because Floridians have elected people who have no interest in changing the current situation.

 

That's why I said that the pleas by the teenage survivors would be better directed at their parents, not the politicians.  The scumbags currently in office need to be voted out.

 

But my point is that their parents almost certainly voted against Scott and Rubio. The US is very divided along urban/suburban/rural divisions. In many states the residents of cities are desperate to pass gun control measures but are blocked by state governments that are controlled by suburban and rural politicians. This is certainly the case in Florida.

 

So being angry at their own parents would be incorrect.

Edited by Ugly American
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44 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

But my point is that their parents almost certainly voted against Scott and Rubio. The US is very divided along urban/suburban/rural divisions. In many states the residents of cities are desperate to pass gun control measures but are blocked by state governments that are controlled by suburban and rural politicians. This is certainly the case in Florida.

 

So being angry at their own parents would be incorrect.

Gotcha.

 

The word "parents" was incorrect.  I should have said Florida electorate instead.

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There was a gun salesman from Seattle on HLN this morning.  He has voluntarily in his store opted to enforce a no one under 21 to be able to buy the type of rifle the Florida killer used.  He stated he is a strong advocate of the 2nd Amendment, and wants to have the opportunity and does have an automatic military style rifle.  He states if someone breaks into his house with an AK 15 he wants to be able to respond with equal force.  I envisioned a burglar blasting in a home with an automatic weapon, and the home owner blasting back, both on full automatic,  with multiple round magazines,  if he lives in a subdivision as I do, with adjacent neighbours next door, behind, and in front, the carnage would be awful, what some just do not seem to realise is that the bullets do not know who they are supposed to hit, they just reach maximum velocity, and continue direction until they run out of force, somewhere in that journey there is a high possibility of them fatally striking a poor individual who is just expressing his right of freedom of movement and has nothing to do with the protector of his home or the breacher of said.

 

I carried lethal firearms for the better part of twenty six years of my life, highly trained in military use, and regularly trained in police use, in neither situation did I ever lose the respect for how deadly these instruments could be, and the  care that must be taken in handling them, I find it hard to believe that particularly but not exclusively that a  person of seventeen can obtain a  high powered weapon,and without serious training such as I had appreciate just the power you have at hand.

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3 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

There was a gun salesman from Seattle on HLN this morning.  He has voluntarily in his store opted to enforce a no one under 21 to be able to buy the type of rifle the Florida killer used.  He stated he is a strong advocate of the 2nd Amendment, and wants to have the opportunity and does have an automatic military style rifle.  He states if someone breaks into his house with an AK 15 he wants to be able to respond with equal force.  I envisioned a burglar blasting in a home with an automatic weapon, and the home owner blasting back, both on full automatic,  with multiple round magazines,  if he lives in a subdivision as I do, with adjacent neighbours next door, behind, and in front, the carnage would be awful, what some just do not seem to realise is that the bullets do not know who they are supposed to hit, they just reach maximum velocity, and continue direction until they run out of force, somewhere in that journey there is a high possibility of them fatally striking a poor individual who is just expressing his right of freedom of movement and has nothing to do with the protector of his home or the breacher of said.

 

I carried lethal firearms for the better part of twenty six years of my life, highly trained in military use, and regularly trained in police use, in neither situation did I ever lose the respect for how deadly these instruments could be, and the  care that must be taken in handling them, I find it hard to believe that particularly but not exclusively that a  person of seventeen can obtain a  high powered weapon,and without serious training such as I had appreciate just the power you have at hand.

As usual Bob, common sense written as you live in a civilised part of the world, but we are talking about the U S of A, no need to add anything else. it will never change, sadly.

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On 15/02/2018 at 00:04, jake said:

It is without a doubt an endemic health problem for the US .

And the rest of the world should act.

Quarantine would perhaps shake the country up as they have exported it .

And what's more they exported it daily under a so called progressive regime under Obama.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/02/gun-violence-public-health/553430/

 

Maybe on reflection my initial post wasn't tactful.

 

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4 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

Gotcha.

 

The word "parents" was incorrect.  I should have said Florida electorate instead.

Fully agreed there.

 

The Florida state legislature just refused to reconsider a bill it had previously tabled to ban assault weapons, with Stoneman Douglass students watching from the gallery.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-gun-rules-20180220-story.html

 

The news article doesn't give the partisan breakdown of the vote, but it was 71-36. The House is split 76-41 GOP-Dems. I'd be willing to guess it was a largely but not entirely party line vote.

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