Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, Cade said:

“In advance of Britain leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019, we undertook a review of the flag status of our ships on the English Channel,” a P&O spokesman said in a statement.

“For operational and accounting reasons, we have concluded that the best course of action is to re-flag all ships to be under the Cyprus flag.”

He added the move “will result in significantly more favourable tonnage tax arrangements as the ships will be flagged in an EU member state”.

 

Explicitly stating that they are re-registering their ships inside the EU for tax purposes, because of Brexit.

 

 

Is that P&O Ferries whose parent company are Dubai World? 

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the manufacturing he is relocating. The R&D is staying here. As is the R&D for his electric car. In addition he has invested heavily in hi-skilled jobs here created his own engineering university to help the UK skills shortage and poured a lot of money into University research projects.

 

 Dyson has been a global brand for some time now and only 4% of the £4.4billion annual revenue comes from the UK. He also relocated the manufacturing of the vacuum cleaners in 2003 (was that due to Brexit?) to Malaysia where labour costs are 30% cheaper. The supply chain is all out in that neck of the woods. It's a commercial decision pure and simple. He's looking after his company and himself.

 

 

 

No 

 

Manufacturing moved to Malaysia 15 years ago

 

Tax registration etc moving to Singapore. Officially based there. Same as Google etc base themselves in Ireland and Luxembourg. 

[doctor jambo]

The total dishonesty about immigration should be addressed, though nobody in the "big two" parties has the balls to say it.

Both labour and the tories are utterly terrified of openly saying we NEED immigration to continue, and possibly increase.

Doing this caused the SNP absolutely NO electoral harm at all!

If they had been honest about this they could quite happily stay in the EU customs union, with free movement of people- two of the freedoms.

NO backstop needed, and deliver Brexit.

The lack of suitable infrastructure - schools, healthcare etc is NOT the fault of immigration, but of investment, by whichever government ( all are guilty of this).

The "native" population moaning about immigrants need to realise that their own failures are not the fault of immigrants.

The parties should get together and agree to STOP lambasting each other over immigration as if its some kind of weapon.

Take free movement of people out of the equation and the rest of the "deal" should easily fall into place

[Cade]

Airbus saying that in a No Deal scenario, they'll start moving production into the EU.

14,000 jobs at risk.

Chairman lets rip at Westminster's handling of Brexit in his statement.

 

One Tory MP suggests seizing the factories and making our own planes instead.

[Boris]

16 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The total dishonesty about immigration should be addressed, though nobody in the "big two" parties has the balls to say it.

Both labour and the tories are utterly terrified of openly saying we NEED immigration to continue, and possibly increase.

Doing this caused the SNP absolutely NO electoral harm at all!

If they had been honest about this they could quite happily stay in the EU customs union, with free movement of people- two of the freedoms.

NO backstop needed, and deliver Brexit.

The lack of suitable infrastructure - schools, healthcare etc is NOT the fault of immigration, but of investment, by whichever government ( all are guilty of this).

The "native" population moaning about immigrants need to realise that their own failures are not the fault of immigrants.

The parties should get together and agree to STOP lambasting each other over immigration as if its some kind of weapon.

Take free movement of people out of the equation and the rest of the "deal" should easily fall into place

 

Very good post Doc!  I think you are spot on!

[Justin Z]

31 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

If they had been honest about this they could quite happily stay in the EU customs union, with free movement of people- two of the freedoms.

NO backstop needed, and deliver Brexit.

 

Remember too that it's free movement of workers. You literally can't do what the scaremongerers and racist rabblerousers say all these immigrants do--move to a new place and then just start collecting benefits. It's even perfectly lawful for you to get chucked out if you try.

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Remember too that it's free movement of workers. You literally can't do what the scaremongerers and racist rabblerousers say all these immigrants do--move to a new place and then just start collecting benefits. It's even perfectly lawful for you to get chucked out if you try.

 

Yeah

 

You can't claim benefits if you don't get a job. (Generally) 

[Justin Z]

59 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah

 

You can't claim benefits if you don't get a job. (Generally) 

 

Yes, and you generally have to work for two years before you become eligible.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No 

 

Manufacturing moved to Malaysia 15 years ago

 

Tax registration etc moving to Singapore. Officially based there. Same as Google etc base themselves in Ireland and Luxembourg. 

 

No to what?   He is moving his HQ to Singapore, that low-tax, ultra competitive, pro-business city-state, the one place Remainers desperately say they don’t want the UK to become. 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

No to what?   He is moving his HQ to Singapore, that low-tax, ultra competitive, pro-business city-state, the one place Remainers desperately say they don’t want the UK to become. 

 

Your first sentence - "It's the manufacturing he's relocating"

 

 

[RobboM]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

The total dishonesty about immigration should be addressed, though nobody in the "big two" parties has the balls to say it.

Both labour and the tories are utterly terrified of openly saying we NEED immigration to continue, and possibly increase.

Doing this caused the SNP absolutely NO electoral harm at all!

If they had been honest about this they could quite happily stay in the EU customs union, with free movement of people- two of the freedoms.

NO backstop needed, and deliver Brexit.

The lack of suitable infrastructure - schools, healthcare etc is NOT the fault of immigration, but of investment, by whichever government ( all are guilty of this).

The "native" population moaning about immigrants need to realise that their own failures are not the fault of immigrants.

The parties should get together and agree to STOP lambasting each other over immigration as if its some kind of weapon.

Take free movement of people out of the equation and the rest of the "deal" should easily fall into place

 

Good post

Freedom of movement is presented as an immigration issue but imo  is one of the most significant tangible benefits that we get as citizens. It is our right to travel, study, work and retire across Europe and is being taken away from us and our future generations.

At least I can get an Irish passport ☘️

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Your first sentence - "It's the manufacturing he's relocating"

 

 

 

With you now. Yes I did get that wrong as he'd done that 15 years previously( which I mentioned later).  The point still remains accurate though it's for commercial reasons not fear of brexit. 

[sairyinthat]

21 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

But it’s patently obvious that the EU wants to avoid no deal. I still think they’d bend to an extent if they were basically being told - this deal will get approval

Correct they have lost the staring contest.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

The total dishonesty about immigration should be addressed, though nobody in the "big two" parties has the balls to say it.

Both labour and the tories are utterly terrified of openly saying we NEED immigration to continue, and possibly increase.

Doing this caused the SNP absolutely NO electoral harm at all!

If they had been honest about this they could quite happily stay in the EU customs union, with free movement of people- two of the freedoms.

NO backstop needed, and deliver Brexit.

The lack of suitable infrastructure - schools, healthcare etc is NOT the fault of immigration, but of investment, by whichever government ( all are guilty of this).

The "native" population moaning about immigrants need to realise that their own failures are not the fault of immigrants.

The parties should get together and agree to STOP lambasting each other over immigration as if its some kind of weapon.

Take free movement of people out of the equation and the rest of the "deal" should easily fall into place

I agree, but free movement is why folk voted leave. 

[IMac]

1 minute ago, sairyinthat said:

Correct they have lost the staring contest.

The german car industry will be coming to the rescue any minute

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I agree, but free movement is why folk voted leave. 

Is it?

I know it was part of the darker side of the leave campaign, but not sure anyone really knows why so many voted leave.

If it was immigration , then you might as well say people voted leave through xenophobic ignorance and abandon Brexit as it was voted for on that basis

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Is it?

I know it was part of the darker side of the leave campaign, but not sure anyone really knows why so many voted leave.

If it was immigration , then you might as well say people voted leave through xenophobic ignorance and abandon Brexit as it was voted for on that basis

It's the one red line brexiteers repeat, especially TM.  No customs union or single market because of freedom of movement. If both didn't include the 4 freedoms we'd have a deal long ago.

Edited January 24, 2019 by ri Alban

[sairyinthat]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Remember too that it's free movement of workers. You literally can't do what the scaremongerers and racist rabblerousers say all these immigrants do--move to a new place and then just start collecting benefits. It's even perfectly lawful for you to get chucked out if you try.

You can of course pretend to live in a building that is gutted by lets say fire and bleed tens of thousands of pounds even as an illegal immigrant,as good a description of free as you will get.

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

You can of course pretend to live in a building that is gutted by lets say fire and bleed tens of thousands of pounds even as an illegal immigrant,as good a description of free as you will get.

 

So here's the difference.

 

You refer to "illegal immigrants" yet Justin Z was talking about immigrants.  There is a distinction.  So an illegal immigrant is, well, illegally in the country.  How do they then claim things?  Well if they have, as you allude to, they have obviously been caught, otherwise how would we know they are an illegal immigrant?

 

 

[Justin Z]

7 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

You can of course pretend to live in a building that is gutted by lets say fire and bleed tens of thousands of pounds even as an illegal immigrant,as good a description of free as you will get.

 

What are you trying to say, exactly? That fraud is illegal and often gets discovered? True, but really beside the point of what you may legally do under the freedom of movement provisions in TFEU.

 

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Boris

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Justin Z

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

What are you trying to say, exactly? That fraud is illegal and often gets discovered? True, but really beside the point of what you may legally do under the freedom of movement provisions in TFEU.

 

Edit: Beaten to the punch by Boris

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

On 23/01/2019 at 17:19, Francis Albert said:

I agree that was a factor ... maybe enough to swing the vote. I can still see the shocked faces of Huw Edwards and others announcing the result - few expected it.

On a second vote a lot of leave voters would I think abstain because they would (understandably) doubt the point of voting again after the first vote was (in their view) ignored.

One way or another a second or "peoples vote" would not really solve anything. And I sense that is one thing most MPs agree on.

if there was another ref Im sure more people would vote knowing more clearly what is at stake.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

27 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

if there was another ref Im sure more people would vote knowing more clearly what is at stake.

 

I think the prospects of a second referendum have become less, after MP's campaigning for a 'People's Vote' dropped plans to put a second referendum to a commons vote, seems there isn't the backing in the commons for it, and until such time there is, if ever, there is not going to be a second referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46987529

 

But if there were, you could be right that more people could vote the second time around, but i'd guess not all of them would vote to remain.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Jambo-Jimbo

[JudyJudyJudy]

I do despair.   Watching Channel 4 news just now . They are talking to Brexits about airbus maybe leaving UK.  One older woman in late 60s   and quote " we dont want Brussels telling us about what size our bananas should be "!!!!   Says it all really. A nation of Forest Gumps. ( as an aside when did the UK start growing bananas ? !! 

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I do despair.   Watching Channel 4 news just now . They are talking to Brexits about airbus maybe leaving UK.  One older woman in late 60s   and quote " we dont want Brussels telling us about what size our bananas should be "!!!!   Says it all really. A nation of Forest Gumps. ( as an aside when did the UK start growing bananas ? !! 

 

Saw that.   Our bananas?  was my first thought.      She quickly backtracked when reminded that such EU regulations are a total myth,    but it's an interesting insight into the mindset.      A woman who wants to leave the EU and the first motive she can summon up just happens to be a conceptual / mythical cliche.      No wonder the leave campaign found it so easy to rack up votes off the back of creating bogus perceptions.

[Don Dan]

Airbus blackmailing the British voters. Change your mind/accept a deal or we are offski. 

Look at Dyson vote for leave then leaves. These hypocritical CEOs have no care for anyone other than their own shareholders or back pocket. 

I’m sick of this whole thing now. Everyone is in it for themselves and that’s right across the whole political spectrum and the businesses. 

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

if there was another ref Im sure more people would vote knowing more clearly what is at stake.

So what are voters to assume in a second vote about the future trading relationship between the UK and EU? On which subject substantive negotiations have not yet begun.

 

What we know is that remainers like John Major declare that we will all be poorer if we leave  (I suspect he may be an exception) . And that Tony Blair thinks we need a second vote to achieve

 "closure". "Closure" FFS.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Saw that.   Our bananas?  was my first thought.      She quickly backtracked when reminded that such EU regulations are a total myth,    but it's an interesting insight into the mindset.      A woman who wants to leave the EU and the first motive she can summon up just happens to be a conceptual / mythical cliche.      No wonder the leave campaign found it so easy to rack up votes off the back of creating bogus perceptions.

You wonder if they seek out people like that for effect on TV, but actually I don't believe they do. 

Bendy bananas

Brown faces

Billions of pounds

British jobs

 

Bollocks. The lot of it.

[Francis Albert]

I see the chief EU negotiator has said that in the event of a no deal Brexit, avoiding a border in Ireland could be achieved by "administrative and technical solutions". Or "moonbeams and unicorns" as the remainers call them.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

I see the chief EU negotiator has said that in the event of a no deal Brexit, avoiding a border in Ireland could be achieved by "administrative and technical solutions". Or "moonbeams and unicorns" as the remainers call them.

With 60 odd days left I'd call them a miracle.

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

With 60 odd days left I'd call them a miracle.

If and when no-deal becomes inevitable there will be some sort of transition.

I think Barnier understands that.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If and when no-deal becomes inevitable there will be some sort of transition.

I think Barnier understands that.

 

Ah yes... the managed no deal.

 

Moonbeams and unicorns indeed.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

If and when no-deal becomes inevitable there will be some sort of transition.

Said absolutely no one.

 

Is this the new revised mantra of leavers? 'something will come up? Who will facilitate it? Who will agree to it? 

So at 23.01pm on 29/3 these plans just magically appear for a smooth transition to er........**** knows? 

 

There will be a transition. The UK will go from being strong and stable and will be thrown into fiscal and political turmoil.

 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said absolutely no one.

 

Is this the new revised mantra of leavers? 'something will come up? Who will facilitate it? Who will agree to it? 

So at 23.01pm on 29/3 these plans just magically appear for a smooth transition to er........**** knows? 

 

There will be a transition. The UK will go from being strong and stable and will be thrown into fiscal and political turmoil.

 

You could be describing the SNP's plans for post Indy Scotland.

[Brighton Jambo]

I am genuinely worried about the consequences of reversing Brexit.  

 

Heres a scenario, Scotland has voted for independence.  The yes votes celebrate like crazy and then a couple of years later when it becomes evident it’s all a bit messy and difficulties  Holyrood decides to reverse the decision.  

 

Imagine the consequences.  Do you think people would be satisfied by having it explained to them it’s for the good of Scotland we are reversing it.  Even talk of another vote would drive them crazy with rage.  There would be chaos.  Now imagine that problem Multiplied by 7/8 across the UK and that’s what will happen if politicians reverse it.  

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[Francis Albert]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said absolutely no one.

 

Is this the new revised mantra of leavers? 'something will come up? Who will facilitate it? Who will agree to it? 

So at 23.01pm on 29/3 these plans just magically appear for a smooth transition to er........**** knows? 

 

There will be a transition. The UK will go from being strong and stable and will be thrown into fiscal and political turmoil.

 

Of course no-one has said it! 

Don't be naive.

At 23.O1 on 29/3 effective border controls will emerge on the hundreds of border crossings?

Something thousands of British troops couldn't achive in decades.

[jambo89]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

Airbus blackmailing the British voters. Change your mind/accept a deal or we are offski. 

Look at Dyson vote for leave then leaves. These hypocritical CEOs have no care for anyone other than their own shareholders or back pocket. 

I’m sick of this whole thing now. Everyone is in it for themselves and that’s right across the whole political spectrum and the businesses. 

 

Excellent point. All these companies that told us to vote remain (majority of companies backed remain) were not doing it because they care about you or me. Regardless of which way the vote went, the little guy always loses.

 

44 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

You could be describing the SNP's plans for post Indy Scotland.

 

This! Can’t understand anyone who voted for independence and then voted to remain. Their paradoxical nature is mind boggling.

[Justin Z]

29 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

This! Can’t understand anyone who voted for independence and then voted to remain. Their paradoxical nature is mind boggling.

 

Perhaps then you can be the first person to ever explain to me how this is paradoxical or mind boggling? I simply do not get it.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I am genuinely worried about the consequences of reversing Brexit.  

 

Heres a scenario, Scotland has voted for independence.  The yes votes celebrate like crazy and then a couple of years later when it becomes evident it’s all a bit messy and difficulties  Holyrood decides to reverse the decision.  

 

Imagine the consequences.  Do you think people would be satisfied by having it explained to them it’s for the good of Scotland we are reversing it.  Even talk of another vote would drive them crazy with rage.  There would be chaos.  Now imagine that problem Multiplied by 7/8 across the UK and that’s what will happen if politicians reverse it.  

 

 

 

Despite being the total opposite of you politically that is a pretty good point and made me think. I have said that I support the idea of a second vote as the best way out but I certainly wouldn't be happy if we voted yes for Scottish independence then they called for another vote later

[XB52]

37 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Excellent point. All these companies that told us to vote remain (majority of companies backed remain) were not doing it because they care about you or me. Regardless of which way the vote went, the little guy always loses.

 

 

This! Can’t understand anyone who voted for independence and then voted to remain. Their paradoxical nature is mind boggling.

No idea what you are on about. I want Scotland to be independent but not isolated.  I want free movement and to take our place alongside the other independent European nations. 

 

[gashauskis9]

Fiona Bruce at it again.  Shutting down remainers on QT and giving the Brexiteers free reign.  She’s a ****ing disgrace.

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 hours ago, XB52 said:

No idea what you are on about. I want Scotland to be independent but not isolated.  I want free movement and to take our place alongside the other independent European nations. 

 

That’s an excellent point.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Excellent point. All these companies that told us to vote remain (majority of companies backed remain) were not doing it because they care about you or me. Regardless of which way the vote went, the little guy always loses.

 

 

This! Can’t understand anyone who voted for independence and then voted to remain. Their paradoxical nature is mind boggling.

If you think the two unions are the same , well , mind boggling wouldn't be hard to achieve. 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Of course no-one has said it! 

Don't be naive.

At 23.O1 on 29/3 effective border controls will emerge on the hundreds of border crossings?

Something thousands of British troops couldn't achive in decades.

Again FA it's all wishful thinking. 

There's no preparedness for what has been a highly likely outcome from the get go. 

Perhaps you've missed the leaks of border force documents this week which highlight just how unprepared the UK is. 

Moonbeams and unicorns it is.

[doctor jambo]

9 hours ago, XB52 said:

Despite being the total opposite of you politically that is a pretty good point and made me think. I have said that I support the idea of a second vote as the best way out but I certainly wouldn't be happy if we voted yes for Scottish independence then they called for another vote later

This is the problem with asking an irreversible question to a changeable electorate!

[AlphonseCapone]

9 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Fiona Bruce at it again.  Shutting down remainers on QT and giving the Brexiteers free reign.  She’s a ****ing disgrace.

 

She was fine. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I am genuinely worried about the consequences of reversing Brexit.  

 

Heres a scenario, Scotland has voted for independence.  The yes votes celebrate like crazy and then a couple of years later when it becomes evident it’s all a bit messy and difficulties  Holyrood decides to reverse the decision.  

 

Imagine the consequences.  Do you think people would be satisfied by having it explained to them it’s for the good of Scotland we are reversing it.  Even talk of another vote would drive them crazy with rage.  There would be chaos.  Now imagine that problem Multiplied by 7/8 across the UK and that’s what will happen if politicians reverse it.  

 

 

 

 

Excellent post, and one which everyone calling for a second referendum/stopping brexit needs to take on board and think about.

 

I've said numerous times about the almighty can of worms that will be opened by having a second ref/reversing brexit.

[Boris]

11 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I am genuinely worried about the consequences of reversing Brexit.  

 

Heres a scenario, Scotland has voted for independence.  The yes votes celebrate like crazy and then a couple of years later when it becomes evident it’s all a bit messy and difficulties  Holyrood decides to reverse the decision.  

 

Imagine the consequences.  Do you think people would be satisfied by having it explained to them it’s for the good of Scotland we are reversing it.  Even talk of another vote would drive them crazy with rage.  There would be chaos.  Now imagine that problem Multiplied by 7/8 across the UK and that’s what will happen if politicians reverse it.  

 

 

 

 

But it wouldn't be Holyrood reversing the decision, it woudl be the electorate.  Just like if there is a second ref on Brexit, it would be the people not Parliament deciding.

 

Also, while Brexit and Scottish independence may be similar on certain levels, they are completely different on others.

[Mikey1874]

So it seems May and the government are relying on a change to the Backstop making it time limited. So surely that needs EU approval? Which isn't very likely? Doesn't seem like a Backstop then.

 

Reports she can get DUP and a lot of Tory support. But is this delusional? 

[Cade]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

But is this delusional? 

Yes it is