Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[SE16 3LN]

16 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

That's right, they were BV being Dutch, now that they're listed in London they'll be a PLC.

They are a big employer over there, that won't change.

 

What benefits will come to Britain that suggest this will help us prosper though, if that's what you're happy about?

As I say it looks like they're setting up a board and listing in London and that's about it.

So bad news then 😂

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

So bad news then 😂

No, more like inconsequential news.

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

No, more like inconsequential news.

It will certainly result in millions of pounds of extra investment in renewables and more money for the treasury. It is also a barometer for how Brexit Britain is being viewed by the big players. When you look at this against a backdrop of Growth and falling Unemployment the future looks far more optimistic than many would like us to believe. Perhaps you'd rather accept what the ONS are telling us because they're bound to get it right eventually 😁.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

It will certainly result in millions of pounds of extra investment in renewables and more money for the treasury. It is also a barometer for how Brexit Britain is being viewed by the big players. When you look at this against a backdrop of Growth and falling Unemployment the future looks far more optimistic than many would like us to believe. Perhaps you'd rather accept what the ONS are telling us because they're bound to get it right eventually 😁.

 

It will? How?

[WorldChampions1902]

[Cade]

Over 4 TRILLION quid in assets has been moved from the UK to the EU over the last 18 months.

 

Shell are moving a couple of billion the other way, but only to evade EU pollution laws.

 

Rule feckin Brittania

[The Mighty Thor]

57 minutes ago, Cade said:

Over 4 TRILLION quid in assets has been moved from the UK to the EU over the last 18 months.

 

Shell are moving a couple of billion the other way, but only to evade EU pollution laws.

 

Rule feckin Brittania

And to avoid punitive tax dividend laws. 

 

It's not a philanthropic move or a commentary of the rip roaring success of Brexit. Not by any measure.

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

It is also a barometer for how Brexit Britain is being viewed by the big players.

A place to escape environmental standards?

 

A tax haven?

[Cade]

Also out this week was the annual report into global tax evasion.

This year's estimate was £500billion lost to national treasuries around the world.

The UK has control over the territories where 40% of that theft happened.

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Over 4 TRILLION quid in assets has been moved from the UK to the EU over the last 18 months.

 

Shell are moving a couple of billion the other way, but only to evade EU pollution laws.

 

Rule feckin Brittania

 

Huzzah!

[SE16 3LN]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It will? How?

because that's Shells key business objective and if they are based in the UK they will be more likely to invest in UK renewables. It certainly isn't inconsequential and the Dutch govt. are looking at loosening their tax laws to persuade them to stay. That's how important it is. 

[SE16 3LN]

The mouth frothing Remainers are out in force today 😂.

 

4 trillion in investments have been withdrawn since Brexit 

We'll all die from an environmental catastrophe while the EU breathes clean air 

We're a tax haven 

 

Still waiting on Armageddon.

 

The fact is, some money has been withdrawn, new investments are coming in and the remainers don't have the bollocks to say they could be wrong. Meanwhile they continue to support the EU's racist "free movement of Labour policies". Let that sink in, a fundamental principle to allow mainly white EU workers favourable access to the EU Labour market. 

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

because that's Shells key business objective and if they are based in the UK they will be more likely to invest in UK renewables. It certainly isn't inconsequential and the Dutch govt. are looking at loosening their tax laws to persuade them to stay. That's how important it is. 

Ah right, you're guessing

[WorldChampions1902]

[Alex Kintner]

55 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The fact is, some money has been withdrawn, new investments are coming in

Some doing some very, very heavy lifting there.

 

“Guess what dear, I gambled and lost some of my wages at the bookies (£500) but there’s new money coming in too (the 5p I found in the street)”

😂

Edited November 16, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

22 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Oh please stop your 100% factual mouth frothing!

[Nucky Thompson]

5 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Shell aren't largely a UK company. That's bollox 

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Shell aren't largely a UK company. That's bollox 

FTFY……..

If after watching hundreds of British firms leave the UK for the Netherlands due to Brexit….you’re now celebrating one large company - Shell - leaving the higher emissions restrictions of the Netherlands for Britain…as proof “Brexit works”….

 

…..well, you’ve an “interesting” idea of success”.

We wouldn’t want the main thrust of that original statement to be lost in “bollox”, now would we? That’s the preserve of the Leave campaign.

[Nucky Thompson]

12 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

FTFY……..

If after watching hundreds of British firms leave the UK for the Netherlands due to Brexit….you’re now celebrating one large company - Shell - leaving the higher emissions restrictions of the Netherlands for Britain…as proof “Brexit works”….

 

…..well, you’ve an “interesting” idea of success”.

We wouldn’t want the main thrust of that original statement to be lost in “bollox”, now would we? That’s the preserve of the Leave campaign.

Could you give me a link to a list of all the hundreds of British firms that have left the UK for the Netherlands since Brexit?

 

Cheers

[WorldChampions1902]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

Could you give me a link to a list of all the hundreds of British firms that have left the UK for the Netherlands since Brexit?

 

Cheers

Nope. Do your own research. 

[Unknown user]

35 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Could you give me a link to a list of all the hundreds of British firms that have left the UK for the Netherlands since Brexit?

 

Cheers

 

Why don't you put forward why this is so great?

If this isn't just a UK board and share listing to avoid tax in NL then what is it?

Edited November 16, 2021 by Smithee

[Cade]

https://newfinancial.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2021.04-Brexit-the-City-infographic-for-website.pdf

 

440 firms in the banking sector alone.

 

The information is not hard to find.

 

(add these to firms like Dyson and Ineos, both owned by Brexit supporting billionaires who fecked off to Monaco and Singapore about 2 seconds after the vote, ya mups)

[Alex Kintner]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

https://newfinancial.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2021.04-Brexit-the-City-infographic-for-website.pdf

 

440 firms in the banking sector alone.

 

The information is not hard to find.

 

(add these to firms like Dyson and Ineos, both owned by Brexit supporting billionaires who fecked off to Monaco and Singapore about 2 seconds after the vote, ya mups)

Yeah but you can prove anything with facts.

[Nucky Thompson]

7 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Yeah but you can prove anything with facts.

According to that link, 48 firms moved to Amsterdam, not hundreds. 

One of them is Royal Bank of Scotland 

 

Are we talking about firms opening offices in Europe or relocating their businesses?

[Japan Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

https://newfinancial.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2021.04-Brexit-the-City-infographic-for-website.pdf

 

440 firms in the banking sector alone.

 

The information is not hard to find.

 

(add these to firms like Dyson and Ineos, both owned by Brexit supporting billionaires who fecked off to Monaco and Singapore about 2 seconds after the vote, ya mups)

 

The graphic you attached shows "A selection of firms relocating staff, assets or operations, expanding offices or setting up new entities in different financial centres."  This does NOT mean they left the UK, very misleading to suggest otherwise.

 

Dyson has returned to the UK, his project in Singapore didn't work out.

https://www.finews.asia/high-end/34314-james-dyson-ends-singapore-adventure

 

Jim Ratcliffe did indeed bail to Monaco... Ineos is Luxembourg based; not aware they have a refinery there - he says tongue in cheek.

https://www.ineos.com/investor-relations/

[Alex Kintner]

19 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

According to that link, 48 firms moved to Amsterdam, not hundreds. 

One of them is Royal Bank of Scotland 

 

Are we talking about firms opening offices in Europe or relocating their businesses?

What are Shell doing?

[Nucky Thompson]

11 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

What are Shell doing?

Moving it's headquarters to the UK from the Netherlands.

[Alex Kintner]

25 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Moving it's headquarters to the UK from the Netherlands.

Exactly 👍🏻

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Exactly 👍🏻

It's not the same as opening an office. 

As far as I know, the Royal Bank of Scotland haven't moved their headquarters from Edinburgh to Amsterdam

[Unknown user]

40 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Moving it's headquarters to the UK from the Netherlands.

 

Well, moving their head office to the UK.

 

Have you found anything to suggest it's any more than setting up a board and listing on the stock exchange? I haven't seen anything about jobs or roles moving here, have you?

[Francis Albert]

I could swear that in the aftermath of Brexit there were gleeful Remainers comments   about Shell moving it's HQ to the Netherlands.

 

And the pound falling to parity with the euro and even the dollar.

 

[Japan Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I could swear that in the aftermath of Brexit there were gleeful Remainers comments   about Shell moving it's HQ to the Netherlands.

 

And the pound falling to parity with the euro and even the dollar.

 

 

there were, in fact both of the two major Anglo-Dutch multinationals that it was feared we'd lose have relocated their HQ's to the UK. 

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

there were, in fact both of the two major Anglo-Dutch multinationals that it was feared we'd lose have relocated their HQ's to the UK. 

Unilever the other?

Damn these Dutch not reading the script.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Japan Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Unilever the other?

Damn these Dutch not reading the script.

 

 

Yup.

[Japan Jambo]

6 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

6 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

An Institute of Directors survey, commissioned by Channel 4, out today also showed 16 per cent of British businesses that trade with the EU “have already decided to move some or all of their EU operations to inside the single market because of Brexit”.

READ MORE

If EU starts post-Brexit trade war it is a political strategy to weaken Northern Ireland’s place in UK, says Stormont minister

The UK’s post-Brexit trade deal with the EU ensured there are no tariffs on goods going either way, however there will be more bureaucracy for importers and exporters in the long-run.

 

Trading activity between the UK and EU plummeted in the first few months of 2021 as British exporters came to grips with the new paperwork and red tape required to send goods to Europe.

Exports to the EU have stabilised and are now around the same level as they were when the UK left the single market and customs union, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

However, imports from the EU are still well below December 2020 levels.

A government spokesperson said: “Whilst the processes for exporting are set by the EU, we will continue to give businesses the support they need to trade effectively with the EU.

“The recent launch of our Export Support Service provides one-to-one advice to new and existing exporters – making it easier for British businesses to access the information they need to export to the rest of Europe.

 

“This builds on the existing support available, such as webinars with experts and access to our network of 300 international trade advisers.”

 

 

So things were a mess for the first few months (in mitigation we were at the height of lock down, but would have been a shitshow anyway just to a lesser degree) and we are now left with more bureaucracy and as a result additional costs.

 

Exports are around the same level as when we left (actually astonished by this good news, I did not see that coming). We are however now importing less than we did (which in terms of balance of payments is a plus too).

 

Yet again a newspaper headline and the underlying facts are at odds. We do a great job of running ourselves down in this country...

 

[Alex Kintner]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Unilever the other?

Damn these Dutch not reading the script.

 

Thank goodness the UK has low environmental and taxation standards to entice them 👍🏻

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

So things were a mess for the first few months (in mitigation we were at the height of lock down, but would have been a shitshow anyway just to a lesser degree) and we are now left with more bureaucracy and as a result additional costs.

 

Exports are around the same level as when we left (actually astonished by this good news, I did not see that coming). We are however now importing less than we did (which in terms of balance of payments is a plus too).

 

Yet again a newspaper headline and the underlying facts are at odds. We do a great job of running ourselves down in this country...

 

Do you have a link to the info about exports being the same now?

 

It doesn’t seem to marry up with a report in The Independent the other day:

 

”More than one in eight traders say they have lost business since the deal came into force in January, some even reporting their exports have disappeared completely, a television documentary reveals.

More than a quarter of small firms say they are now considering moving some of their European operations out of Britain, while 16 per cent have already done so, Channel 4’s Dispatchesprogramme will report.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-tariffs-boris-johnson-trade-deal-b1957793.html?amp

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Japan Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Do you have a link to the info about exports being the same now?

 

Nope, it's straight out of that newspaper article from City AM (ONS numbers I think it states) - I made the mistake of reading beyond the headline! I did cut and past it above though. 

 

If you're thinking that is too good to be true, that was also my initial thought too!!

Edited November 16, 2021 by Japan Jambo
adding

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Thank goodness the UK has low environmental and taxation standards to entice them 👍🏻

If they wanted low taxation Dublin would be a better bet. Along with all the advantages of being in the EU.

 

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

If they wanted low taxation Dublin would be a better bet. Along with all the advantages of being in the EU.

 

It’s not a better bet it you’re already set up as an Anglo-Dutch company.

[WorldChampions1902]

14 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

So things were a mess for the first few months (in mitigation we were at the height of lock down, but would have been a shitshow anyway just to a lesser degree) and we are now left with more bureaucracy and as a result additional costs.

The bit in bold is an understatement! Leavers moaned incessantly about suffocating EU red tape and bureaucracy. Total bureaucrats running the EU is 25,000 employees. Additional Customs bureaucrats required by the U.K. post-Brexit is 55,000-60,000!

[Japan Jambo]

Just now, WorldChampions1902 said:

The bit in bold is an understatement! Leavers moaned incessantly about suffocating EU red tape and bureaucracy. Total bureaucrats running the EU is 25,000 employees. Additional Customs bureaucrats required by the U.K. post-Brexit is 55,000-60,000!

 

No idea where your numbers come from but no question there are now additional barriers - even eBay purchases seem to be more complicated these days!! At the end of the day though the result is in - no value in re-litigating it endlessly, need to make the best of where we are at

[Alex Kintner]

17 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Nope, it's straight out of that newspaper article from City AM (ONS numbers I think it states) - I made the mistake of reading beyond the headline! I did cut and past it above though. 

 

If you're thinking that is too good to be true, that was also my initial thought too!!

Yeah found this table which backs up what you were saying. The uncertainty around Brexit (and probably Covid) seemed to cause a massive drop which has since recovered.

 

Going by the C4 Dispatches article it’s not so much the level of exports that seems to be the issue, more the tariffs and additional bureaucracy.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

No idea where your numbers come from but no question there are now additional barriers - even eBay purchases seem to be more complicated these days!! At the end of the day though the result is in - no value in re-litigating it endlessly, need to make the best of where we are at

Totally disagree. Every Brexit lie that is exposed, every aspect of our economy that is damaged and every negative aspect resulting from the Brexit folly will all result in forcing change. As a minimum, rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union in the years ahead. Once that is achieved (and IMHO it is inevitable), the public can then consider its next step. The Re-Join campaign started on the 1st January.

[EC_Hearts]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The bit in bold is an understatement! Leavers moaned incessantly about suffocating EU red tape and bureaucracy. Total bureaucrats running the EU is 25,000 employees. Additional Customs bureaucrats required by the U.K. post-Brexit is 55,000-60,000!

Must admit that's what my employer is finding. Having to assign tariff codes to all items brought in from outside UK which wasn't previously required. Spent a great deal of time building a supply chain within the EU that avoided ITAR restrictions with the USA, obviously a bit problematic now !

One thing that has hit home is how little is produced in the UK and I'm afraid I regard the talk of inward investment as simply more empty rhetoric from a government full of opportunist chancers.    

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It’s not a better bet it you’re already set up as an Anglo-Dutch company.

You said we were enticing them by low tax and environmental standards. If their hands were tied as an Anglo-Dutch company why the need to entice them. And what stopped them from moving to Dublin as many have done to take advantage of low corporate tax rates?

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Totally disagree. Every Brexit lie that is exposed, every aspect of our economy that is damaged and every negative aspect resulting from the Brexit folly will all result in forcing change. As a minimum, rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union in the years ahead. Once that is achieved (and IMHO it is inevitable), the public can then consider its next step. The Re-Join campaign started on the 1st January.

 

Don't see England rejoining, it takes two hands to clap and there is no way the EU would want to put themselves through that again, even if England could get over not having all the preferential stuff it negotiated over the years walked back in one fell swoop.

 

If you are viewing this through a Scottish lens, who knows...

 

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

You said we were enticing them by low tax and environmental standards. If their hands were tied as an Anglo-Dutch company why the need to entice them. And what stopped them from moving to Dublin as many have done to take advantage of low corporate tax rates?

The fact they’re already an Anglo-Dutch company and not an Irish-Dutch company? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ked]

The UK always had a fractious relationship with the EU.

It's not a question if the UK wants to be back but would the EU want the UK back?

And would the UK rejoin under the terms rightly demanded?

 

Its over.

Get over it.

 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

The fact they’re already an Anglo-Dutch company and not an Irish-Dutch company? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Not being Irish has not stopped some of the biggest companies in the world taking advantage of Irish low corporate taxation.