Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Alex Kintner]

14 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Yeah found this table which backs up what you were saying. The uncertainty around Brexit (and probably Covid) seemed to cause a massive drop which has since recovered.

 

Going by the C4 Dispatches article it’s not so much the level of exports that seems to be the issue, more the tariffs and additional bureaucracy.

 

I’d be interested to know though whether the £ value of exports includes the added tariffs.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Not being Irish has not stopped some of the biggest companies in the world taking advantage of Irish low corporate taxation.

Were any of them already split between two countries and also being squeezed on their environmental standards?

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

The UK always had a fractious relationship with the EU.

It's not a question if the UK wants to be back but would the EU want the UK back?

And would the UK rejoin under the terms rightly demanded?

 

Its over.

Get over it.

 

Is it over? 
 

Absolutely👍🏻
 

Is it ok to discuss the pros and cons of it?

 

Absolutely 👍🏻

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’d be interested to know though whether the £ value of exports includes the added tariffs.

 

thought the deal negotiated was zero tariffs each way, anyone know?

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

thought the deal negotiated was zero tariffs each way, anyone know?

 

Seriously?

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Were any of them already split between two countries and also being squeezed on their environmental standards?

Shell and Unilever have been driven by environmental standards? As companies operating internationally they have to comply with the environmental standards of the countries they operate in. Having their HQ in London does not affect that.

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Were any of them already split between two countries and also being squeezed on their environmental standards?

 

not sure evading environmental standards were at the top of their thinking. fwiw Unilever is one of the more forward thinking companies when it comes to ESG...

 

https://www.unilever.com/news/press-releases/2020/unification-of-unilever-legal-structure.html

 

https://www.spglobal.com/_assets/documents/ratings/research/100250469.pdf

 

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

thought the deal negotiated was zero tariffs each way, anyone know?

BJ said it was zero tariffs. The reality has been somewhat different:

“Brexit has forced UK firms to pay tariffs on up to £9.5bn of exports to the EU despite Boris Johnsonclaiming he struck a “tariff-free” deal, an investigation has found.”

 

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Shell and Unilever have been driven by environmental standards? As companies operating internationally they have to comply with the environmental standards of the countries they operate in. Having their HQ in London does not affect that.

Not according to the article posted earlier:

 

“The company, which long faced questions from investors about its dual structure and has recently been hit by a Dutch court order over its climate targets.

 

In May, a Dutch court ordered Shell to deepen its planned greenhouse gas emission cuts in order to align with the Paris climate deal which aims to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. Shell has said it would appeal.”

[WorldChampions1902]

20 minutes ago, Ked said:

The UK always had a fractious relationship with the EU.

It's not a question if the UK wants to be back but would the EU want the UK back?

And would the UK rejoin under the terms rightly demanded?

 

Its over.

Get over it.

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

BJ said it was zero tariffs. The reality has been somewhat different:

“Brexit has forced UK firms to pay tariffs on up to £9.5bn of exports to the EU despite Boris Johnsonclaiming he struck a “tariff-free” deal, an investigation has found.”

 

 

thx - read that in the same article and thought it had to be total BS!! Another liberty with the facts then.

 

[Japan Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Seriously?

 

Its not something I'm close to, I'm soliciting comment so I can learn 🙂 

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Not according to the article posted earlier:

 

“The company, which long faced questions from investors about its dual structure and has recently been hit by a Dutch court order over its climate targets.

 

In May, a Dutch court ordered Shell to deepen its planned greenhouse gas emission cuts in order to align with the Paris climate deal which aims to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. Shell has said it would appeal.”

How will the location of Shell's HQ affect these orders? And if the affect was to make them prefer to locate in London (which I doubt) wouldn't that be a good thing from a UK perspective?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Its not something I'm close to, I'm soliciting comment so I can learn 🙂 

Fair enough

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How will the location of Shell's HQ affect these orders? And if the affect was to make them prefer to locate in London (which I doubt) wouldn't that be a good thing from a UK perspective?

Not sure tbh. Definitely not good from an Earth perspective if they can move here to avoid having to comply with environmental regulations enforcing the 1.5°C cap. 

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

Your memes may get you by but they really are just memes.

FWIW I think it would have been better as a whole to have not brexited or even have had the choice.

We had as the UK a pretty strong hand.

However that was only played by the tories and really just galvanised an EU that is in essence right of centre conservative.

Something that's amusing when you see the posts on here that regard it as a bull work against torie policy.

It sidelined what is really important.

That being environment and the current and ongoing geopolitical tension with Russia China and the migration problems.

Migration problems which the EU broadly speaking is in alignment with the Tories ,if you accept EU v non EU citizens as the concept.

 

We live in a democracy but that's a two way street.

Europes not especially wanting us back.

 

Post away about blaming the weather on brexit.

It makes no difference to the weather.

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How will the location of Shell's HQ affect these orders? And if the affect was to make them prefer to locate in London (which I doubt) wouldn't that be a good thing from a UK perspective?

 

The domestic Dutch operations will still need to comply with Dutch law. The multinational will probably squeeze out from underneath that but will then walk straight into our rules. The narrative here in the UK is that we are in a world leading position when it comes to environmental commitments so one would have thought they'd be walking into pain here too - it just might not be as clearly defined yet and of course our glorious leader has a penchant for the hyperbolic so may have exaggerated a tad. It'd be interesting to look at the UK and The Netherlands environmental commitments side by side.

 

If I was being generous I'd posit that the re-domicile was in the post ahead of the environmental changes and that merely accelerated things. The dual listing issues caused by the divergence of rules has been problematic, for example Ryanair is headed out as its London listing causes problems with regard to EU airline ownership rules. As to why the UK; we have a top notch Financial Services industry that is best placed to help them reshape to move forward. Shell (+ BP) won't look like they do now in 20 years time, it take time to unpick and pivot though.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-01/ryanair-weighs-london-delisting-in-latest-example-of-brexit-pain

[Ked]

6 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Not sure tbh. Definitely not good from an Earth perspective if they can move here to avoid having to comply with environmental regulations enforcing the 1.5°C cap. 

Despite the UK having a decent record on enforcing it.

Which EU countries have better?

[Alex Kintner]

11 minutes ago, Ked said:

Despite the UK having a decent record on enforcing it.

Which EU countries have better?

Off the top of my head I’m going to say…Holland 🤪

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Off the top of my head I’m going to say…Holland 🤪

 

Lol Alex, but what do the facts say? Comparing apples and pears with a large dollop of fantasy projections at this stage I'd reckon...

 

[Ked]

11 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Off the top of my head I’m going to say…Holland 🤪

Top of your head is wrong .

Sorry.

UK isnt the best but it's up there.

 

[Alex Kintner]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

Top of your head is wrong .

Sorry.

UK isnt the best but it's up there.

 

In that case I bow to your superior knowledge of the subject. 👍🏻

[The Mighty Thor]

Amazon banning payments made by UK Visa credit cards from Jan 2022. 

It's down to the cap on payment processing charges disappearing since we left the EU. 

 

Yet another dividend for the UK punter 👍

[Alex Kintner]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Amazon banning payments made by UK Visa credit cards from Jan 2022. 

It's down to the cap on payment processing charges disappearing since we left the EU. 

 

Yet another dividend for the UK punter 👍

Taking back control 👍🏻

[SE16 3LN]

19 hours ago, Smithee said:

Ah right, you're guessing

If it's the key objective in their business plan its not guessing. You on the the other hand are basing an opinion on the remainers fear project from 2015 😀. Things have changed and your world view should change too.

[Dazo]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Amazon banning payments made by UK Visa credit cards from Jan 2022. 

It's down to the cap on payment processing charges disappearing since we left the EU. 

 

Yet another dividend for the UK punter 👍

Which uk banks use Visa for credit cards ? Thought most use Mastercard these days. I doubt many people who have credit cards don’t have a Mastercard in their wallet/purse. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Dazo

[SE16 3LN]

18 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Some doing some very, very heavy lifting there.

 

“Guess what dear, I gambled and lost some of my wages at the bookies (£500) but there’s new money coming in too (the 5p I found in the street)”

😂

This is remainer economics 😂😂😂😂😂.

 

I can recommend a course for you if you like.

[SE16 3LN]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Amazon banning payments made by UK Visa credit cards from Jan 2022. 

It's down to the cap on payment processing charges disappearing since we left the EU. 

 

Yet another dividend for the UK punter 👍

Remainer backs tax dodging multinational who treats workers like scum. No surprise there.

[Ked]

Just now, Dazo said:

Which uk banks use Visa for credit cards ? Thought most use Mastercard these days. I doubt maybe people who have credit cards don’t have a Mastercard in their wallet/purse. 

It's a long running dispute with visa credit card and Amazon.

Visa debit Mastercard are all ok.

Visa being greedy .

But it's a daily event on this thread.

 

Bloody cold wind today must be brexit to blame.

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

In that case I bow to your superior knowledge of the subject. 👍🏻

Not superior in the slightest .

A basic grasp of the truth.

You should try it.

[Ked]

12 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Taking back control 👍🏻

If it avoids using a credit card it definitely is.

[Dazo]

Just now, Ked said:

It's a long running dispute with visa credit card and Amazon.

Visa debit Mastercard are all ok.

Visa being greedy .

But it's a daily event on this thread.

 

Bloody cold wind today must be brexit to blame.

 

Was my point really. A lot of people on here seem to have drawn a line in the sand and made their minds up all is bad in the uk and will be forever. Forgetting the pandemic and brexit, not allowing the uk a chance or time to come out the other side. Imagine part of your daily routine is trawling the internet for bad news about the UK just so you can gleefully say I don’t you so. 😂

[Beni]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

It's a long running dispute with visa credit card and Amazon.

Visa debit Mastercard are all ok.

Visa being greedy .

But it's a daily event on this thread.

 

Bloody cold wind today must be brexit to blame.

 

 

Once again Ked, for someone who says they didn't vote for Brexit you seem to be putting in a lot of effort in gallantly defending it against criticism.

Did you vote remain?

[Alex Kintner]

29 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

This is remainer economics 😂😂😂😂😂.

 

I can recommend a course for you if you like.

Thanks, I’ve got a degree in Accounting and Economics so I’m good. ☺️👍🏻
 

I’d prefer you just explain why a 4% hit to GDP caused by Brexit isn’t something to worry about?

[Unknown user]

37 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

If it's the key objective in their business plan its not guessing. You on the the other hand are basing an opinion on the remainers fear project from 2015 😀. Things have changed and your world view should change too.

 

It's totally guessing, they're already doing stuff in the UK, 6,000 employees, moving head office doesn't change that.

 

No source for your claim? You're guessing.

[The Mighty Thor]

46 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Remainer backs tax dodging multinational who treats workers like scum. No surprise there.

Remainer finds preferred payment method no longer accepted by large on line retailer due the fall out of little englanders not liking brown people. 

[The Mighty Thor]

48 minutes ago, Ked said:

It's a long running dispute with visa credit card and Amazon.

Visa debit Mastercard are all ok.

Visa being greedy .

But it's a daily event on this thread.

 

Bloody cold wind today must be brexit to blame.

 

It may be long running but the removal of EU wide cap on charges allows Visa to get greedy and directly impacts UK consumers. 

 

I'll file it beside the EU roaming charges for mobile phones that were DEFINITELY not going to happen 👍

[Ked]

2 hours ago, Beni said:

 

Once again Ked, for someone who says they didn't vote for Brexit you seem to be putting in a lot of effort in gallantly defending it against criticism.

Did you vote remain?

I'm not defending anything.

 

It's good there is a cap in place by the EU.

However its Visa credit who are in the wrong here and quite rightly pulled up by Amazon.

To suggest that people who voted brexit or indeed brexit itself is at fault is a form of fake news.

And it's constant on here.

That you fail to address the points I made and reduce it to a finger point shows where you wish to take that.

 

No i didnt vote remain either.

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It may be long running but the removal of EU wide cap on charges allows Visa to get greedy and directly impacts UK consumers. 

 

I'll file it beside the EU roaming charges for mobile phones that were DEFINITELY not going to happen 👍

I dont pay roaming charges .

I'm with o2.

 

I'd advise people to change to mastercard then.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Ked

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Ked said:

If it avoids using a credit card it definitely is.

Not really, it's sensible to make large important purchases on a credit card and pay them off in one go. It affords the consumer the highest level of protection and purchase insurance. 
 

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

Was my point really. A lot of people on here seem to have drawn a line in the sand and made their minds up all is bad in the uk and will be forever. Forgetting the pandemic and brexit, not allowing the uk a chance or time to come out the other side. Imagine part of your daily routine is trawling the internet for bad news about the UK just so you can gleefully say I don’t you so. 😂

To be fair, you don't need to look at all to be flooded with more of the "benefits" of Brexit. Drowning in them online, such is the complete arse the govt made of the deal. 

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Not really, it's sensible to make large important purchases on a credit card and pay them off in one go. It affords the consumer the highest level of protection and purchase insurance. 
 

To be fair, you don't need to look at all to be flooded with more of the "benefits" of Brexit. Drowning in them online, such is the complete arse the govt made of the deal. 

I don’t doubt that Gizmo but is standing about smugly pointing fingers the way to go ? Weird way to live imo. 

[Beni]

45 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm not defending anything.

 

It's good there is a cap in place by the EU.

However its Visa credit who are in the wrong here and quite rightly pulled up by Amazon.

To suggest that people who voted brexit or indeed brexit itself is at fault is a form of fake news.

And it's constant on here.

That you fail to address the points I made and reduce it to a finger point shows where you wish to take that.

 

No i didnt vote remain either.

 

 

I wasn't commenting on Visa/Amazon, just curious to find out your views on Brexit.

Brexit was probably the biggest political change in most people's lifetimes so it's not really a surprise it's an emotive topic.

Interesting that you weren't tempted to vote one way or the other though. 👍 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Beni

[Ked]

58 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

I wasn't commenting on Visa/Amazon, just curious to find out your views on Brexit.

Brexit was probably the biggest political change in most people's lifetimes so it's not really a surprise it's an emotive topic.

Interesting that you weren't tempted to vote one way or the other though. 👍 

 

 

I wasnt able to vote at the time.

I'm not a particular fan of a lot the EU is about.

However brexit was as can be seen of little benefit to the UK.

Especially as in general the EU economics is heavily favoured to the richer nations.

There are though real questions about the future direction the EU will take.

On its finances,immigration,mass migration  its military response to ever more aggression from Russia.

It's not easy to discuss that on here without being polarised.

There are plenty posts on here that are pro EU some good ones but an awful lot just stretching any story to suit their agenda.

 

Hindsight would probably see me vote remain.

However at the time I would not have been so sure.I think I'm conservative minded although I've never voted Tory which means I'm for less government .

Again I dont see my posts as defensive of brexit.I just have pointed out that some of the posts on here stretch the input of brexit.

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Not really, it's sensible to make large important purchases on a credit card and pay them off in one go. It affords the consumer the highest level of protection and purchase insurance. 
 

 

True enough.

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

I'm not defending anything.

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

I dont pay roaming charges .

I'm with o2.

 

I'd advise people to change to mastercard then.

 

This is becoming the default position of certain people when faced with the mounting and rather obvious problems that Brexit brings.

 

Change your phone supplier then.

 

Change your card provider then.

 

How about change the arseholes that proposed it and then lied through their teeth to deliver it to the morons who thought it was a 'great idea' then. 

[SE16 3LN]

37 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

This is becoming the default position of certain people when faced with the mounting and rather obvious problems that Brexit brings.

 

Change your phone supplier then.

 

Change your card provider then.

 

How about change the arseholes that proposed it and then lied through their teeth to deliver it to the morons who thought it was a 'great idea' then. 

You've been on Tyson's toad venom. 

[jack D and coke]

19 hours ago, Ked said:

The UK always had a fractious relationship with the EU.

It's not a question if the UK wants to be back but would the EU want the UK back?

And would the UK rejoin under the terms rightly demanded?

 

Its over.

Get over it.

 

No the English did as they’re all frogs and krauts and Eyeties etc. 

Get it right👍🏼
I agree it’s over though and we have to make best of it. 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

This is becoming the default position of certain people when faced with the mounting and rather obvious problems that Brexit brings.

 

Change your phone supplier then.

 

Change your card provider then.

 

How about change the arseholes that proposed it and then lied through their teeth to deliver it to the morons who thought it was a 'great idea' then. 

 Elections are every 4 years.

Might be quicker to shop around.

That's one of the benefits of capitalism I suppose.