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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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26 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'd have hoped those issues were arrived.

I'm pessimistic about it all tbh.

 

 

I'm looking at our politicians here piously commenting on the environment, and then voting against improved public transport and safer segregated cycle routes for Dublin, and I'm not exactly optimistic.

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8 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Can you translate this into  English ? 🤣

 

Cheers. 

 

 


No need to get all defensive nano. I could have said stop talking shite. 😂

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8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That caused animosity.  But did it happen?

Yes it happened. My wife who is a Health Visitor has families on her case load with children she never saw simply because they lived in their home county. 

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The Mighty Thor
8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Noteworthy that the EU has been the adult in the room again on NI.  They have offered a redesign of processes under the regulations, plus a revision to EU law in relation to medicines, that if accepted would reduce checks on GB traffic to NI by 80%.

 

NI business groups have welcomed the proposals, with one group describing them as almost a carbon copy of requests made by them, and another group describing some of the EU proposals as going beyond their expectations.

 

However, the right-wing hardliners of the DUP are opposed to them, and the EU is preparing for the British government to reject them.

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/1013/1253373-brexit/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/13/northern-irish-firms-hail-eu-proposals-resolve-brexit-protocol-row

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/13/eu-offers-to-scrap-80-of-ni-food-checks-but-prepares-for-johnson-to-reject-deal

 

 

My question is what's the end game that Frost is playing here?

 

They don't need the DUP at all and go as far as to say that they couldn't give two fecks about them.

 

Is it to keep the grievance with the EU going as a cover to hide the fact that NI being within the Customs Union is benefitting NI hugely when the rest of the UK is shrinking economically by bring outside? Ergo the CU and EU membership actually works?

 

Are they fishing for an all out trade war? Again who benefits?

 

Are they just inept?

 

 

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scott herbertson
1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

My question is what's the end game that Frost is playing here?

 

They don't need the DUP at all and go as far as to say that they couldn't give two fecks about them.

 

Is it to keep the grievance with the EU going as a cover to hide the fact that NI being within the Customs Union is benefitting NI hugely when the rest of the UK is shrinking economically by bring outside? Ergo the CU and EU membership actually works?

 

Are they fishing for an all out trade war? Again who benefits?

 

Are they just inept?

 

 

 

 

I'm going for your last option

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SectionDJambo
3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

My question is what's the end game that Frost is playing here?

 

They don't need the DUP at all and go as far as to say that they couldn't give two fecks about them.

 

Is it to keep the grievance with the EU going as a cover to hide the fact that NI being within the Customs Union is benefitting NI hugely when the rest of the UK is shrinking economically by bring outside? Ergo the CU and EU membership actually works?

 

Are they fishing for an all out trade war? Again who benefits?

 

Are they just inept?

 

 

That will be Lord Frost, an unelected government official, negotiating with those unelected officials of the EU that we were told had no right to be in a position of influence on this country.

One of the reasons put forward for leaving the EU was all these unelected European people making decisions that affected the UK, but apparently it's ok for the UK to have an unelected person leading the fight against the injustice of an agreement, he and our PM were crowing about getting the EU to sign up to, just to "get Brexit done".

A matter of months after the fanfares we're told that their "great deal" was harmful to the UK, and Northern Ireland in particular, but that those pesky Europeans sneaked up on them and took advantage of their desperation to please the UK electorate who voted for Brexit.

An oven ready deal for Global Britain, we were told. You wonder what else is going to come out of the oven burnt to a cinder.

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7 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

My question is what's the end game that Frost is playing here?

 

They don't need the DUP at all and go as far as to say that they couldn't give two fecks about them.

 

Is it to keep the grievance with the EU going as a cover to hide the fact that NI being within the Customs Union is benefitting NI hugely when the rest of the UK is shrinking economically by bring outside? Ergo the CU and EU membership actually works?

 

Are they fishing for an all out trade war? Again who benefits?

 

Are they just inept?

 

 

There was a telling interview on BBC news last night with an NI business spokesman who pointed out the NIP is working, trade in NI is doing well (it's repositioned its economy to focus on EU trade and is booming - imports/exports from /to the EU are at record levels). But he poined out the EUCJ involvement and seemed resigned to the fact this was going to be the sticking point - "it's all about brexit purity". 

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The Mighty Thor
7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

There was a telling interview on BBC news last night with an NI business spokesman who pointed out the NIP is working, trade in NI is doing well (it's repositioned its economy to focus on EU trade and is booming - imports/exports from /to the EU are at record levels). But he poined out the EUCJ involvement and seemed resigned to the fact this was going to be the sticking point - "it's all about brexit purity". 

I heard a guy from NI today who is of the opinion that the unintended consequence of Brexit is the over-performance of NI with the EU due to still being a part of the CU and this is making the Brexit project look like the sack of shite that it clearly is. 

The flat earthers of the DUP are raging that NI is becoming more aligned with the Republic and that puts the fear into them, the backward ^^^^s that they are.

 

He reckons that the Tories can't have the CU being a proven success and they're desperate to scupper the current arrangement.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

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9 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Yes it happened. My wife who is a Health Visitor has families on her case load with children she never saw simply because they lived in their home county. 

 

Which benefits were they claiming?

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36 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I heard a guy from NI today who is of the opinion that the unintended consequence of Brexit is the over-performance of NI with the EU due to still being a part of the CU and this is making the Brexit project look like the sack of shite that it clearly is. 

The flat earthers of the DUP are raging that NI is becoming more aligned with the Republic and that puts the fear into them, the backward ^^^^s that they are.

 

He reckons that the Tories can't have the CU being a proven success and they're desperate to scupper the current arrangement.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Agreed. When the DUP first kicked off at the NIP one of their number was confronted on BBC (can't recall by whom   , but a Tory "grandee") who basically said - the DUP need to stop making out this is a consitutional crisis, it clearly isn't.  And he said it quite forcibly. The DUP guy was abolutely ragin'.  But more to the point, no one at the BBC seems to want to call the DUP out on their "constitutional" BS. 

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17 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Child allowance. 

 

It's the first I've heard of it, did this actually cause much of a stir?

And I assume we're talking people long established in this country as you can't get benefits in the first 3 years.

 

At least they're easily caught out if they don't send the kids to school, nursery, for jabs, etc.

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Just now, Smithee said:

At least they're easily caught out if they don't send the kids to school, nursery, for jabs, etc

That’s why my wife is aware of it. 
 

regarding benefits the time you wait is base on what category you are in when you arrive in the UK. 

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1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

Which benefits were they claiming?

It's to do specifically with Child Benefit which was being paid for  children of EU ex pats .

I don't know how widespread it was but it did happen IIRC. 

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41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's the first I've heard of it, did this actually cause much of a stir?

And I assume we're talking people long established in this country as you can't get benefits in the first 3 years.

 

At least they're easily caught out if they don't send the kids to school, nursery, for jabs, etc.

That wasn't the case at first but Cameron changed the law to prevent EU workers getting UK benefits on arrival as a sop to the ERG nutters. But needless to say, it was never going to be enough. This was mainly down to the flood of Polish workers moving here : the home office totally miscalculated the numbers they expected to move here. 

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Paisley jnr now claiming that Boris told him that he always intended to rip up or ignore the Protocol.

 

UK in the shite now.

 

Signs a legally binding international treaty for purely domestic political reasons, now trying to renege on that legally binding international treaty.

Talk about negotiating in bad faith(!)

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The Mighty Thor
18 minutes ago, Cade said:

Paisley jnr now claiming that Boris told him that he always intended to rip up or ignore the Protocol.

 

UK in the shite now.

 

Signs a legally binding international treaty for purely domestic political reasons, now trying to renege on that legally binding international treaty.

Talk about negotiating in bad faith(!)

Mail & Express spin it as EU persecution and the half wits that support him will lap it up.

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The Mighty Thor

temporary drivers, temporary butchers, temporarily allowing foreign drivers working time in the UK?

 

Temporary fixes, one permanent problem.

 

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From the Torygraph - who knew they kept ferrets ? 

 

Lord Frost will demand that Brussels allows the free movement of British pets in Northern Ireland as it emerged that "ferret wars" is the latest front in Britain's battle with the EU over a new Brexit deal

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3 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Child allowance. 

 

Fair enough.  It's unusual for someone to answer that question.  Usually they know somebody who knows somebody, etc. etc, but when asked for specifics they don't deliver.

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2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It's to do specifically with Child Benefit which was being paid for  children of EU ex pats .

I don't know how widespread it was but it did happen IIRC. 

 

Ireland is full of stories like this that never turn out to be true.  Perhaps the UK experience is different.  I always wondered about "Schrödinger's immigrants" - you know the ones, coming over here and taking our jobs while simultaneously coming over here and living on welfare.

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41 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

temporary drivers, temporary butchers, temporarily allowing foreign drivers working time in the UK?

 

Temporary fixes, one permanent problem.

 

In other news, government temporarily suspends "taking back control" as "taking back control" has caused a  lack of control.

Welcome to the 1970s, W  Germany-style gastarbeiter. 

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2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Ireland is full of stories like this that never turn out to be true.  Perhaps the UK experience is different.  I always wondered about "Schrödinger's immigrants" - you know the ones, coming over here and taking our jobs while simultaneously coming over here and living on welfare.

I paid little attention to it at the time as I thought it was blatant anti EU propaganda. But also because I never really met anyone from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland who had kids ( we had  a fair number of EU workers  in my locale on farms/doing factory work) . They (kids) were few & far between. 

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47 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

temporary drivers, temporary butchers, temporarily allowing foreign drivers working time in the UK?

 

Temporary fixes, one permanent problem.

 

 

How much difference do they actually think this will make?  According to official statistics, cabotage rights usage accounted for a lower percentage of internal freight transport in the UK than in any other country in Europe.  First of all, a lot of foreign haulage firms just aren't operating on UK roads now because the amount of trade with the continent has fallen.  But secondly, even if all the foreign hauliers were still on UK roads, they never accounted for more than 1% of UK domestic road freight.

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4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

How much difference do they actually think this will make?  According to official statistics, cabotage rights usage accounted for a lower percentage of internal freight transport in the UK than in any other country in Europe.  First of all, a lot of foreign haulage firms just aren't operating on UK roads now because the amount of trade with the continent has fallen.  But secondly, even if all the foreign hauliers were still on UK roads, they never accounted for more than 1% of UK domestic road freight.

 

For context, they say this will add thousands of deliveries.  In 2019, HGVs made nearly 180 million deliveries in the UK domestic freight system.

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The Mighty Thor
41 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

How much difference do they actually think this will make?  According to official statistics, cabotage rights usage accounted for a lower percentage of internal freight transport in the UK than in any other country in Europe.  First of all, a lot of foreign haulage firms just aren't operating on UK roads now because the amount of trade with the continent has fallen.  But secondly, even if all the foreign hauliers were still on UK roads, they never accounted for more than 1% of UK domestic road freight.

It's a great headline that plays into the 'let me be clear, we're working hard to resolve XXXXXXX' narrative that this mob are renowned for, whilst not addressing the issue they've created for themselves at all.

 

 

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WorldChampions1902
3 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It's the first I've heard of it, did this actually cause much of a stir?

And I assume we're talking people long established in this country as you can't get benefits in the first 3 years.

 

At least they're easily caught out if they don't send the kids to school, nursery, for jabs, etc.

I don’t give two hoots when people moan about these so-called immigrant benefits-scroungers who are legitimately entitled to what they claim. People who put forward that argument conveniently overlook the bigger picture that these immigrants are net contributors to the U.K. economy. In fact, they are greater net contributors than resident Brits.


To quote this article from The Economist,  “According to the government’s latest review on immigration, by the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC), immigrants contribute more to the public purse on average than native-born Britons do. Moreover, European newcomers are the most lucrative group among them. The MAC reckons that each additional migrant from the European Economic Area (EEA) will make a total contribution to the public purse of approximately £78,000 over his or her lifetime (in 2017 prices). Last year, the average adult migrant from the EEA yielded £2,370 ($3,000) more for the Treasury than the average British-born adult did.

 

 

617A4DBE-49FA-4160-AF4B-C821AEE5DFB7.jpeg

Edited by WorldChampions1902
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22 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm looking at our politicians here piously commenting on the environment, and then voting against improved public transport and safer segregated cycle routes for Dublin, and I'm not exactly optimistic.

Short term and pressured from interests .

I'm not sure democracy can deliver.

Nor it seems any other political system.

Glad my children dont have children yet.

 

Ach well nice while it lasted and heres hopin

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2 minutes ago, Ked said:

Short term and pressured from interests .

I'm not sure democracy can deliver.

Nor it seems any other political system.

Glad my children dont have children yet.

 

Ach well nice while it lasted and heres hopin

 

0002.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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But apart from that.

Does anyone see any hope in any political system ideology party independence movement or anything that has the answer to what unless you are a complete dingle  to what's coming?

 

Nothing else matters imo.

Sorry for the ub40 tune .

Just read up on the acceleration of predictions of climate change.

My 4 kids.

3 in their 30s 

Blessing is 14.

It really is all about them .

 

 

Not sure this thread is right one but you know.

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Why would anyone trust doing business with Boris' government.

8 hours ago, Cade said:

Paisley jnr now claiming that Boris told him that he always intended to rip up or ignore the Protocol.

 

UK in the shite now.

 

Signs a legally binding international treaty for purely domestic political reasons, now trying to renege on that legally binding international treaty.

Talk about negotiating in bad faith(!)

 

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2 hours ago, Ked said:

But apart from that.

Does anyone see any hope in any political system ideology party independence movement or anything that has the answer to what unless you are a complete dingle  to what's coming?

 

Nothing else matters imo.

Sorry for the ub40 tune .

Just read up on the acceleration of predictions of climate change.

My 4 kids.

3 in their 30s 

Blessing is 14.

It really is all about them .

 

 

Not sure this thread is right one but you know.

Independence. 

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1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Why would anyone trust doing business with Boris' government.

 

If you didn't see Question Time , you really missed something. 

 

England bottled it because in 2019 England was  in meltdown. They signed a "deal " because of internal issues - and threats of a 2nd ref  from Labour. 

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1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

If you didn't see Question Time , you really missed something. 

 

England bottled it because in 2019 England was  in meltdown. They signed a "deal " because of internal issues - and threats of a 2nd ref  from Labour. 

Stopped watching it lately. Total cringe.

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4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Stopped watching it lately. Total cringe.

First time in 3 years, was not disappointed.

 

It's f king awful.

 

Fiona " that's a nice  painting" Bruce must  go. 

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ciaran the euro courier Flag of European UnionFlag of Ireland
 
@donnyc1975
· 5h
The government Allowing unlimited cabotage in the U.K. by foreign trucks is a direct failure to fill the 5000 temp vacancies - they are desperateThe government Allowing unlimited cabotage in the U.K. by foreign trucks is a direct failure to fill the 5000 temp vacancies - they are desperate
 
Edited by NANOJAMBO
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WorldChampions1902
4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Stopped watching it lately. Total cringe.

Stopped watching BBC QT just before the General Election when she shut down a rare Remainer member of the audience who tried to ask questions about the proven illegality of the Leave campaign. She said that “wasn’t proven” or similar.Then at the start of the next weeks QT Fiona Brexit, I mean Bruce announced that she wanted to correct her error about that question around Leave illegality during last weeks programme as it was a fact and not debatable or words to that effect. But it was job done because it suppressed the discussion.

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Fair play to them re the new work rules for foreign drivers.  A decent and pragmatic measure.  

 

See!  You can do it if you try.

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The brass neck of this. Johnson literally begging EU drivers to bail him out being spun as giving rights to EU workers which the EU is not reciprocating. 

 

 

Gavin Barwell

@GavinBarwell

This will help, but it is another example of how unequal the UK/EU trading relationship now is. We grant rights to EU drivers without anything in return for UK drivers BBC News - Lorry driver shortage: Government to lift rules on foreign haulier deliveries

Edited by NANOJAMBO
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6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

The brass neck of this. Johnson literally begging EU drivers to bail him out being spun as giving rights to EU workers which the EU is not reciprocating. 

 

 

Gavin Barwell

@GavinBarwell

This will help, but it is another example of how unequal the UK/EU trading relationship now is. We grant rights to EU drivers without anything in return for UK drivers BBC News - Lorry driver shortage: Government to lift rules on foreign haulier deliveries

 

Truly absurd comment.  I would call him something but it doesn't seem appropriate today.

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22 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

 

 

Gavin Barwell

@GavinBarwell

This will help, but it is another example of how unequal the UK/EU trading relationship now is. We grant rights to EU drivers without anything in return for UK drivers BBC News - Lorry driver shortage: Government to lift rules on foreign haulier deliveries

 

Yes dear, you chose to be a 3rd nation.

 

This is how that works.

 

You won, get over it.

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I wonder if anyone's drawn Barwell a picture yet to explain that the more time UK drivers spend on European roads means less time spent driving on UK roads.

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