Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Have you heard about the planned refuse workers strike in the trash ridden, rat infested Glasgow? Why the feck are you worrying about English councils??

Because the broader debate of the benefits (or not) of brexit are being discussed. 

Fair play though, you're still banging out your propaganda. 

[NANOJAMBO]

40 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Never had a problem getting fuel or getting anything I wanted from the supermarket.

 

Remainiacs, you're desperate 

 Why would brexit impact Atlantic City ?

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He hates the idea of independence. 

So, there is no trash and rat infestation in Glasgow? Or it's easier just to put a sticking plaster on it and bad mouth the UK,for party political point scoring.....yet again?

[jamboy1982]

9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So, there is no trash and rat infestation in Glasgow? Or it's easier just to put a sticking plaster on it and bad mouth the UK,for party political point scoring.....yet again?

You miss the point, yet again. This is a thread on brexit and it’s impacts on the uk. Pretty sure there is trash and rats in every city in the uk. You’re poor attempts at turning any little comment round to be negative against the scotgov is pathetic. Whatabboutery?

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, jamboy1982 said:

You miss the point, yet again. This is a thread on brexit and it’s impacts on the uk. Pretty sure there is trash and rats in every city in the uk. You’re poor attempts at turning any little comment round to be negative against the scotgov is pathetic. Whatabboutery?

And I've already pointed out that lorry driver shortages are Europe wide and are nothing to do with Brexit. 

Bad mouthing the UK Govt, for constitutional purposes,  is not a good look.

[jamboy1982]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

And I've already pointed out that lorry driver shortages are Europe wide and are nothing to do with Brexit. 

Bad mouthing the UK Govt, for constitutional purposes,  is not a good look.

Lorry driver shortages existed before the pandemic and brexit. They continue worldwide now, only one set of nations have a far more serious lack of drivers. Can you guess the group of nations worse affected? 
 

The uk government receive a lot of bad press on these boards, all of which is merited. Not for constitutional purposes, but for the purpose of exposing them for what they are. Crooks and thieves. 

[Francis Albert]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

But you obviously get the point. 

 

PS Your pointless allusion to the 19040s & the GFA is just that : pointless. 

I was referring to a reference by you to something that happened in the 1940s which you seemed to be suggesting had some relevance to the border question.

Although you could not remember the circumstances.

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Lorry driver shortages existed before the pandemic and brexit. They continue worldwide now, only one set of nations have a far more serious lack of drivers. Can you guess the group of nations worse affected? 
 

The uk government receive a lot of bad press on these boards, all of which is merited. Not for constitutional purposes, but for the purpose of exposing them for what they are. Crooks and thieves. 

The Scottish Government has also been getting "bad press" on these boards. Increasingly so recently. Not all is merited. But of course every bit of bad press for the UK government must be merited!

[jamboy1982]

20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Scottish Government has also been getting "bad press" on these boards. Increasingly so recently. Not all is merited. But of course every bit of bad press for the UK government must be merited!

I’ve read enough of your drivel to know that I can’t be bothered getting involved with you. 

[Francis Albert]

There was for me something telling about the SNP Glasgow council's response to criticism of the filthy state of Glasgow ... "Edinburgh is worse". Masters of deflection! (And dare I say parochialism?)

[Francis Albert]

11 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I’ve read enough of your drivel to know that I can’t be bothered getting involved with you. 

As long as you are still reading!

[Enzo Chiefo]

57 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Lorry driver shortages existed before the pandemic and brexit. They continue worldwide now, only one set of nations have a far more serious lack of drivers. Can you guess the group of nations worse affected? 
 

The uk government receive a lot of bad press on these boards, all of which is merited. Not for constitutional purposes, but for the purpose of exposing them for what they are. Crooks and thieves. 

Crooks and thieves, eh?

Are the Conservative party being investigated by the Police in connection with £600k of members' donations that have "disappeared"??

[jamboy1982]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Crooks and thieves, eh?

Are the Conservative party being investigated by the Police in connection with £600k of members' donations that have "disappeared"??

Back  to the whatabouterry I see. Can you not stay on topic? Every time someone mentions the uk government you try desperately to change it to scotgov!! Laughable.

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Back  to the whatabouterry I see. Can you not stay on topic? Every time someone mentions the uk government you try desperately to change it to scotgov!! Laughable.

You accused the UK Govt of being "crooks and thieves", yet when I point out our own Govt are being investigated by the Police, you play the "whataboutery" card.

YOU brought up the "thieves and crooks reference" not me.

 

Perhaps you and your fellow Nationalist zealots would be taken more seriously if you acknowledged the failings and faults of the SCOTTISH government, the one that controls our daily lives, aswell as the UK govt.

But then, of course,  criticising the SNP damages the separation brand. That isn't the done thing so sweeping all problems under a tartan rug is a far easier solution. 

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You accused the UK Govt of being "crooks and thieves", yet when I point out our own Govt are being investigated by the Police, you play the "whataboutery" card.

YOU brought up the "thieves and crooks reference" not me.

 

Perhaps you and your fellow Nationalist zealots would be taken more seriously if you acknowledged the failings and faults of the SCOTTISH government, the one that controls our daily lives, aswell as the UK govt.

But then, of course,  criticising the SNP damages the separation brand. That isn't the done thing so sweeping all problems under a tartan rug is a far easier solution.

 

Maybe people aren't arsed about you taking them seriously, I'm certainly not.

 

Problems with the current regime are irrelevant, not to mention tiny compared to what Westminster gets up to.

 

But I want my vote to mean something, for Scotland to stop being an impotent shadow of itself and reliant on another nation's electorate to make it's decisions. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Crooks and thieves, eh?

Are the Conservative party being investigated by the Police in connection with £600k of members' donations that have "disappeared"??

Risible.

 

Disappearing money and conservatives in the same sentence?

 

You might be onto something. 

[jack D and coke]

The NZ deal certainly seems to be good. For the kiwis  

[HartleyLegend3]

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Risible.

 

Disappearing money and conservatives in the same sentence?

 

You might be onto something. 

Sweep sweep. Natalie McGarry, Michelle Thomson, Patrick Grady, missing milions. Keep sweeping...freedumb depends on it. What about thon Toooaarrries. Margaret Ferrier shhhhh. Derek Mackay. Nothing to see here . Alex Salmond,  Mr & Mrs Murrell...sweep sweep. 

Aye, crooks, thieves and sleazebags right enough! Rotten to the core.

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The NZ deal certainly seems to be good. For the kiwis  

They wouldn't have agreed to it otherwise.

As for the UK doesn't it mean taking into account UK consumers as well as UK farmers? 

 

 

 

 

[Savage Vince]

20 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He hates the idea of independence. 

 

5 hours ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

 

 

Brilliant 😁

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Sweep sweep. Natalie McGarry, Michelle Thomson, Patrick Grady, missing milions. Keep sweeping...freedumb depends on it. What about thon Toooaarrries. Margaret Ferrier shhhhh. Derek Mackay. Nothing to see here . Alex Salmond,  Mr & Mrs Murrell...sweep sweep. 

Aye, crooks, thieves and sleazebags right enough! Rotten to the core.

Rent free. 

[leginten]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

They wouldn't have agreed to it otherwise.

As for the UK doesn't it mean taking into account UK consumers as well as UK farmers? 

 

 

 

 

What about localism? The environment? The planet? Supporting the people they told all the Brexit lies to? 
 

Why import stuff from the other side of the world that’s freely available here, especially if you’re going to put farmers out of business in the process?
 

It’s just another desperate trade deal that does nothing for anyone in the UK. If it actually goes through, that is. I believe the much heralded Australian one, which will enable us all to buy Tim-Tam biscuits - whatever the **** they are - has hit the buffers.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

What about localism? The environment? The planet? Supporting the people they told all the Brexit lies to? 
 

Why import stuff from the other side of the world that’s freely available here, especially if you’re going to put farmers out of business in the process?
 

It’s just another desperate trade deal that does nothing for anyone in the UK. If it actually goes through, that is. I believe the much heralded Australian one, which will enable us all to buy Tim-Tam biscuits - whatever the **** they are - has hit the buffers.

 I have bought New Zealand lamb ever since we joined the EU. The only change is  it will not now bear the protectionist EU tariff. Which protects inefficient and more environmentally damaging farmers from competition from more efficient and less environmentally damaging farmers outside the EU. The very heart of the EU is the protection of EU farmers especially at the start of it all French farmers. A sort of German war reparation.

If we want to subsidise UK farmers we are free ... In fact more free ... to do so after leaving the EU than we were before.

 

And UK farmers have always been one of the strongest bases of Tory support. So my sympathy is limited. Except for their hugely underpaid farm workers.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Beni]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 I have bought New Zealand lamb ever since we joined the EU. The only change is  it will not now bear the protectionist EU tariff. Which protects inefficient and more environmentally damaging farmers from competition from more efficient and less environmentally damaging farmers outside the EU. The very heart of the EU is the protection of EU farmers especially at the start of it all French farmers. A sort of German war reparation.

If we want to subsidise UK farmers we are free ... In fact more free ... to do so after leaving the EU than we were before.

 

And UK farmers have always been one of the strongest bases of Tory support. So my sympathy is limited. Except for their hugely underpaid farm workers.

 

How much was this EU tariff?

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

How much was this EU tariff?

The average EU tariff on lamb is 48%.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

How much was this EU tariff?

 

Well of course NZ had a large quota of tax free lamb which they rarely met, the maximum was 12.5% if they ever did go over quota.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The average EU tariff on lamb is 48%.

 

And NZ lamb?

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

And NZ lamb?

Not sure of the exact figure but given it's produced much cheaper than in the EU, it's a fair bet to say it will be higher.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Not sure of the exact figure but given it's produced much cheaper than in the EU, it's a fair bet to say it will be higher.

 

Nope.

[Beni]

44 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The average EU tariff on lamb is 48%.

 

I can only find figures for the last 4 years, but NZ hasn't been anywhere near fulfilling its quota for the UK, so if FA has been paying a tariff like he seems to think he has, then we can but applaud his butcher's entrepreneurial skills.

 

42 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Well of course NZ had a large quota of tax free lamb which they rarely met, the maximum was 12.5% if they ever did go over quota.

 

That's what I'd read, that they weren't paying a tariff because they didn't fill their quota, but given they seem to have lower animal welfare standards, putting a tariff on their meat would maybe level things up a bit. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Beni

[Roxy Hearts]

45 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The average EU tariff on lamb is 48%.

I'll be buying f all from Australia or New Zealand. Ffs! Scottish and British produce is fantastic. 

 

9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Sweep sweep. Natalie McGarry, Michelle Thomson, Patrick Grady, missing milions. Keep sweeping...freedumb depends on it. What about thon Toooaarrries. Margaret Ferrier shhhhh. Derek Mackay. Nothing to see here . Alex Salmond,  Mr & Mrs Murrell...sweep sweep. 

Aye, crooks, thieves and sleazebags right enough! Rotten to the core.

Small beer compared to the British state and selling arms to Saudis or creating tax havens! Let's have a constitution in an independent Scotland as the rancid UK doesn't have one.

[Francis Albert]

Apologies. Clearly I got the tariff issue issue wrong as far as NZ lamb is concerned. A bit puzzled why UK hilll farmers are so worried about NZ lamb imorts if NZ doesn't come near to meeting its tariff free quota.

I stand by the general point  about the protectionist nature of the EU in agriculture and more widely. 

 

(PS as ever of course  it becomes a Scot Nat attack on the "British State".  One of the biggest tax havens in the world for the last decade and more has been our neighbour just across the Irish Sea ... in a different league from the UK.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Apologies. Clearly I got the tariff issue issue wrong as far as NZ lamb is concerned. A bit puzzled why UK hilll farmers are so worried about NZ lamb imorts if NZ doesn't come near to meeting its tariff free quota.

I stand by the general point  about the protectionist nature of the EU in agriculture and more widely. 

 

(PS as ever of course  it becomes a Scot Nat attack on the "British State".  One of the biggest tax havens in the world for the last decade and more has been our neighbour just across the Irish Sea ... in a different league from the UK.

 

Presumably sheep farmers hoped to take advantage of the brexit dividend they'd been promised. But they've ended up with their government pulling the rug out so they can be undercut from the other side of the world, with no benefit in return.

 

Yay, Mon the British state

 

 

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

Presumably sheep farmers hoped to take advantage of the brexit dividend they'd been promised. But they've ended up with their government pulling the rug out so they can be undercut from the other side of the world, with no benefit in return.

 

Yay, Mon the British state

 

 

My point was I am not clear what rug is being pulled from under them. If New Zealand has chosen to export well below its zero tariff quota for many years why will they flood the UK market because the tariff is zero?

(Farmers generally moan all the time. Then generally vote Tory.)

 

[Beni]

28 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I stand by the general point  about the protectionist nature of the EU in agriculture and more widely. 

 

There are wider issues than just cheap food when it comes to agriculture.

Animal welfare, hormone use in meat production, environmental damage, and becoming overly dependent on imported food in an uncertain world, to name a few.

 

If denying access to cheap hormone treated beef from the USA, or meat from Brazil produced from felled rainforest is being protectionist, then I say bring it on.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Apologies. Clearly I got the tariff issue issue wrong as far as NZ lamb is concerned. A bit puzzled why UK hilll farmers are so worried about NZ lamb imorts if NZ doesn't come near to meeting its tariff free quota.

I stand by the general point  about the protectionist nature of the EU in agriculture and more widely. 

 

(PS as ever of course  it becomes a Scot Nat attack on the "British State".  One of the biggest tax havens in the world for the last decade and more has been our neighbour just across the Irish Sea ... in a different league from the UK.

Brexit was about taking back control and empowering our own industries no? Our farmers and fishermen etc not importing stuff from the furthest corners of the planet  to zero benefit to almost anyone except the kiwi farmers it seems. 
I don’t have much sympathy with the fishermen or the farmers tbh but surely the whole crux of brexit was these people scoring something like promised. 

 

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

My point was I am not clear what rug is being pulled from under them. If New Zealand has chosen to export well below its zero tariff quota for many years why will they flood the UK market because the tariff is zero?

(Farmers generally moan all the time. Then generally vote Tory.)

 

 

You'd need to ask them, my only in is a beef farmer.

The EU's much bigger than the UK of course, not meeting a large EU quota doesn't mean they won't be willing or able to make domestic players uncompetitive in the much smaller UK market.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

50 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

There are wider issues than just cheap food when it comes to agriculture.

Animal welfare, hormone use in meat production, environmental damage, and becoming overly dependent on imported food in an uncertain world, to name a few.

 

If denying access to cheap hormone treated beef from the USA, or meat from Brazil produced from felled rainforest is being protectionist, then I say bring it on.

 

 

All worthy stuff. But not the main driver of EU policy as far as protectionist tariffs on agricultural imports are concerned.

[jack D and coke]

Is brexit to blame for this emptying raw sewage into the waterways?

 

[Beni]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

All worthy stuff. But not the main driver of EU policy as far as protectionist tariffs on agricultural imports are concerned.

 

The CAP today may protect small inefficient French Farmers, but it was introduced for sound reasons in the wake of WW2 when Europe couldn't feed itself.

The fundamental principle of maintaining the ability to feed the populace is as relevant today as it was then.

If it all kicks off over Tiawan, making yourself reliant on food imports from the Antipodes won't look so clever.

Thanks to the Brexiteers the UK will be left consuming nothing but rationed turnip and water, meanwhile over the channel they'll be tucking into the finest artisan bread, meat and cheese, all washed down with a cheeky little Cabernet Sauvignon.

[Cade]

Leaving the world's largest trading bloc then having the cheek to be greeting about it being "protectionist"

 

 

Various UK industries were protected by it.

Now they're not.

Now they're fecked.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Cade

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Leaving the world's largest trading bloc then having the cheek to be greeting about it being "protectionist"

 

 

Various UK industries were protected by it.

Now they're not.

Now they're fecked.

Protectionism is not a function of size. Though when performed on a large scale it can do most damage. For most of the last century one of the largest, if not the largest of  trading blocs was very protectionist. the British Empire in the decade before was also highly protectionist.

 

Which UK industries were "protected" by the EU.  Most of the UK's industrial base shrank or disappeared. Not of course all because of the EU but  not evidence  of much protection.

 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Beni said:

 

The CAP today may protect small inefficient French Farmers, but it was introduced for sound reasons in the wake of WW2 when Europe couldn't feed itself.

The fundamental principle of maintaining the ability to feed the populace is as relevant today as it was then.

If it all kicks off over Tiawan, making yourself reliant on food imports from the Antipodes won't look so clever.

Thanks to the Brexiteers the UK will be left consuming nothing but rationed turnip and water, meanwhile over the channel they'll be tucking into the finest artisan bread, meat and cheese, all washed down with a cheeky little Cabernet Sauvignon.

If we are going back to the wake of WW2  the UK had good reason not to place too much reliance on Continental Europe for its food supply. 

Your image of how the EU would respond to a global crisis affecting food supply is interesting but wildly imaginative.  I think our cabernet sauvignon is safe.

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Protectionism is not a function of size. Though when performed on a large scale it can do most damage. For most of the last century one of the largest, if not the largest of  trading blocs was very protectionist. the British Empire in the decade before was also highly protectionist.

 

Which UK industries were "protected" by the EU.  Most of the UK's industrial base shrank or disappeared. Not of course all because of the EU but  not evidence  of much protection.

 

Sorry. Of course I meant century before (19th) when the British Empire was the largest trading bloc.

[Beni]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

If we are going back to the wake of WW2  the UK had good reason not to place too much reliance on Continental Europe for its food supply. 

 

That's true, and helps make my point that food production is strategically important, so it makes sense to be prepared to feed the nation when the next black swan event comes along.

There's a quote from a famous Russian - Vladimir something or other - that any society is only ever three meals away from chaos.

 

[Cade]

Resorting to comparing everything back to THE WAR.

 

 

That was 80 years ago.

The world has moved on, even if the UK has not.

 

Food security is absolutely a national strategic matter.

So why, then, is the government hell-bent on putting UK food producers out of business?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Sunlit uplands?

 

Mmmmmm yes please.

 

And what's this? No more pesky EU food protections? 

 

 

Lovely. Will go just great with the chlorinated chicken when Truss gets the trade deal that's in the bag with the US 👍

[Francis Albert]

57 minutes ago, Cade said:

Resorting to comparing everything back to THE WAR.

 

 

That was 80 years ago.

The world has moved on, even if the UK has not.

 

Food security is absolutely a national strategic matter.

So why, then, is the government hell-bent on putting UK food producers out of business?

 

Erm. I was responding to a post that referred to " the wake of  WW2."

 

[Unknown user]