Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[RobboM]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There wasn't before so if the UK don't want one, what's the issue? If the EU do, surely that's for them to decide too, a border is generally bi-directional but I'm unclear why it has to be that way.

 

I do agree that there has to be a border between NI and the EU but avoiding conflict appears to have made that hard to achieve in reality.

 

 

They could indeed. 

Before when Taffin?

My mum was born and brought up about 100m from the border and back in the day used to smuggle cigarettes over the border past customs officials 🙂

[RobboM]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There wasn't before so if the UK don't want one, what's the issue? If the EU do, surely that's for them to decide too, a border is generally bi-directional but I'm unclear why it has to be that way.

 

I do agree that there has to be a border between NI and the EU but avoiding conflict appears to have made that hard to achieve in reality.

 

 

They could indeed. 

Bit hazy on this but I think there was chat about this when the issue was still live and there are obligations under WTO rules to manage your border (might be wrong but do recollect something along these lines)

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Before when Taffin?

My mum was born and brought up about 100m from the border and back in the day used to smuggle cigarettes over the border past customs officials 🙂

 

Before Brexit. 

 

What's the big risk of continuing that way to the UK I guess I my confusion/lack of understanding. What would that bring with it that's such an issue? A back door into the UK? Immigrants going to NI and then sailing across the Irish sea? EU goods entering our markets?

 

For the impact any of that would have I just feel surely the positives of having no border outweigh the negatives.

 

Personally the GFA looks like a mental thing to have agreed, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and at the time they probably never envisioned the two countries having differing EU statuses. Agreeing to never, ever have a hard border with a country you share a land mass with boggles the mind to me, but I am too young to have seen what sort of a situation leads to such a decision.

 

 

EDIT: Mental as in relation to where we find ourselves today, not mental as in bringing about peace of course!

Edited October 4, 2021 by Taffin

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Bit hazy on this but I think there was chat about this when the issue was still live and there are obligations under WTO rules to manage your border (might be wrong but do recollect something along these lines)

 

That would certainly explain it and would answer my questions on it 👍

 

Cheers

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Before when Taffin?

My mum was born and brought up about 100m from the border and back in the day used to smuggle cigarettes over the border past customs officials 🙂

Indeed. We got stopped at the border going to the UEFA game against St Patricks back in the day.

[The Mighty Thor]

25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There wasn't before so if the UK don't want one, what's the issue? If the EU do, surely that's for them to decide too, a border is generally bi-directional but I'm unclear why it has to be that way.

 

I do agree that there has to be a border between NI and the EU but avoiding conflict appears to have made that hard to achieve in reality.

It's practically impossible to not have a border between NI & EU.

 

I think in reality any border would need to be bi-directional. There's the small matter of the divergence between EU standards (particularly food) and Global Britain's bargain basement approach to such things as it chases trade deals with anyone that'll entertain them. 

[Cade]

A border has two sides.

For anything to flow across it, both sides have to agree on the terms of the use of that border.

Brexit fanatics overlook this fact.

"taking back control" of the UK's borders was, in reality, giving control to the EU.

And due to the UK government choosing to be a 3rd nation and EU rules regarding 3rd nations, we have the mess we're in right now.

 

The UK can unilaterally say its side of the border is open but the EU would have to agree to that.

And without protections for the EU single market, it won't.

Otherwise, cheap shoddy shite could flow into the UK from anywhere in the world then enter the EU market via an Irish back-door.

That is not going to be allowed to happen.

 

Which is why we have the  protocol that includes customs checks.

 

We're trying to balance the GFA and Hard Brexit, which are mutually exclusive.

The Protocol is a fudge.

The GFA itself was a fudge.

Hard Brexit is just lunacy.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

A border has two sides.

For anything to flow across it, both sides have to agree on the terms of the use of that border.

Brexit fanatics overlook this fact.

"taking back control" of the UK's borders was, in reality, giving control to the EU. IMO, this was a clear statement appealing  to the racists & disaffected : no more foreigners , we don't have to accept mass migration into the UK (which is fine until they forgot about the 3.5 million British immigrants in EU countries)

 

And due to the UK government choosing to be a 3rd nation and EU rules regarding 3rd nations, we have the mess we're in right now.

 

The UK can unilaterally say its side of the border is open but the EU would have to agree to that. I don't think it can - I've seen this stuff from brexiters but I beleive UK would have obligations under it's treateis/agreements/international law and it cannot do so. This has been a straw for the brexiters re the NIP. 

And without protections for the EU single market, it won't.

Otherwise, cheap shoddy shite could flow into the UK from anywhere in the world then enter the EU market via an Irish back-door.

That is not going to be allowed to happen.

 

Which is why we have the  protocol that includes customs checks.

 

We're trying to balance the GFA and Hard Brexit, which are mutually exclusive.

The Protocol is a fudge.

The GFA itself was a fudge.

Hard Brexit is just lunacy.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

I find it strange that they call people who go stay in Spain for a few months a year (for the heat) expats... that's not really what they are. 

Fuming pensioners say they have no choice but to move, NOT TRUE as their own article makes clear

due to more stringent immigration rules brought in after the UK left the European Union.

Robert Barnhardt, a property expert who runs an estate agency in the seaside town of Fuengirola, told our sister title The Mirror that many retired people are now starting to sell their properties. SO "retired",  not "visitors" Maybe she could explain that the EHIC card is only valid for short stays which means AFAIK,  UK immigrants in Spain now have to fork out £3 - 4 K per annum per couple for health care they used to get for free. 

READ MORE - Scottish mum told three times in lockdown she had acid reflux has stage 4 cancer

Due to Brexit, UK citizens can only visit Spain that's visitors , not retired folk already living in Spain 

without a visa for up to three months for tourism and businesses purposes. So these rules are about visitors - why would retired folk be leaving when they can apply for residency ? 

However, from 2022 British nationals will need a visa waiver to enter Spain, according to rules outlined on the Spanish government website. Actually there are 62 countries who will need a visa waiver*  to enter the EU, it's not picking on Brits  to be strictly accurate - it applies to all EU countries, not just Spain. It becomes mandatory in 2023. It's been raised in the HoC but the govt has refused to provide any information about it (can't think why 🙄).

 

* It's a scheme that will function like the US ESTA scheme but will be £7 for 3 years. This is the "travel tax" the Express referred to while omitting to tell their readers it's no different from what you needs when travelling to America (although it's cheaper and last 3 years not 2. But presumably that didn't fit their agenda).

Edited October 4, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[NANOJAMBO]

Just seeing some pics of Frost addressing the Tories over brexit - the hall is half empty at best.

FFS, the single biggest disaster to hit post war Britain and even the Tories don't want to be associated with it. 

Anyway , Lord Frost , our chief negotiator , who once said this ...

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[Cade]

The Tory party:

Simultaneously the party of free market economics and also the party of throwing up trade barriers with our largest market.

 

[Ulysses]

11 hours ago, Cade said:

The government have pursued a Hard Brexit, so a hard border is required as part of that.

But the GFA prohibits a hard border in Ireland, so the Protocol is a half-way measure.

It's the only solution unless hard brexit is dropped and the UK re-joins the customs union.

 

Frost can try as much as he likes but it's not going to change.

We have two conflicting, contradictory treaties to balance.

 

Interesting admission by Frost and others as to why they have to try to damage the Protocol, and do so as quickly as possible.

 

The problem isn't that the Protocol is failing.  The problem is that it is working. 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

15 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Interesting admission by Frost and others as to why they have to try to damage the Protocol, and do so as quickly as possible.

 

The problem isn't that the Protocol is failing.  The problem is that it is working. 

 

 

I've just seen this and tweeted David Henig to explain/ clarify.

Am I reading this right - the panel is singing the praises of increased trade (business is adapting to change) between NI & I but Frost says "it's a problem that has to be solved".

 

[Ulysses]

11 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

There only has to be a customs border though if the country the goods/people are entering mandates one though, no? So if the UK just accept they will lose out a bit by allowing free inward flow from Ireland to NI surely it's a better solution than they have now? They didn't have one before and it worked fine...I appreciate it's a climb down on their sabre rattling about border control etc.

 

The Protocol already involves the UK accepting inward flow from Ireland to NI.  The problem is that when the EU insisted - rightly - that NI should have full access to the rest of the UK market, the British government agreed to this, but would not put in measures to allow GB businesses full access to the NI market.  The EU and the Irish government wanted there to be no restrictions in either direction so that NI would continue to be fully integrated into the UK market.  But because that was an internal matter for the UK, we couldn't insist on it, and the British government said no.

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, RobboM said:

Before when Taffin?

My mum was born and brought up about 100m from the border and back in the day used to smuggle cigarettes over the border past customs officials 🙂

 

My da did likewise, although he was more like 8 km from the border.  He later sold condoms when they were legal in NI but banned here, although in that case it was one of his mates who did the actual cross-border bit.  

 

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Indeed. We got stopped at the border going to the UEFA game against St Patricks back in the day.

 

This is an old example to demonstrate why the Single Market is so important.  In 1988, there was still a full-on customs border on this island, just as there were many across Europe.

 

Through the 1980s, John Hume made overture after overture to the leadership of Sinn Féin and the Provisional IRA to move in the direction of peace.  He made good connections, but little progress.

 

In January 1993 the Single Market came into being, and customs borders all over the EU were abandoned.  The physical border here was removed, and the customs personnel on both sides were redeployed or made redundant.  There remained a strong military presence because of the Troubles.

 

During 1993 the Single Market had had such an effect on freedom of movement of goods and people that Hume was able to persuade the Republican movement that the border was going to be more and more irrelevant to people's lives, and they began to think in terms of political solutions rather than paramilitarism.  Similar overtures to figures in the Loyalist community had a similar effect.

 

By December 1993, the British and Irish governments felt confident enough to release the Downing Street Declaration, which is generally regarded as the official starting point for the NI political and peace process.  The first Republican and Loyalist ceasefires happened 8 months later.

 

By 1998, following protracted negotiations, the GFA was agreed.  Although there have been political impasses since, and subsequent additional agreements needed, the fundamental principles of the GFA have held firm.  The last major terrorist atrocity in NI was a little over 23 years ago, and was carried out by dissident Republicans opposed to the political process.  The last Provisional IRA act of aggression was almost 25 years ago.

 

The GFA depends for its success on three major pillars.  One of those is that the system by which the regional government is created in NI is designed not to exclude the minority.  That is designed to work regardless of whether the minority is made up of those with a British or those with an Irish identity.  Another is that the constitutional status of NI is protected and accepted by everyone, and can only be changed by a majority of the population of NI.  The third is that the land border on the island has to be invisible and transparent to the user.  When you cross the border you are in no doubt that you have moved to a place with a different authority, different jurisdiction, different currency and so on.  But the invisibility and transparency is essential to those people who wish to live their lives freely on both sides of the border.  If that transparency is taken away, a major pillar of the political process collapses.

 

That is why the EU, the Irish government and the British government agreed that any trade agreement had to include provisions that would effectively keep NI in the Single Market.  The trouble is that the UK government would not go the distance and keep NI fully integrated into the UK market.  That was entirely their choice - and they badly let down the people of NI, especially the unionist people of NI, when they made that choice.

[Ulysses]

38 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I've just seen this and tweeted David Henig to explain/ clarify.

Am I reading this right - the panel is singing the praises of increased trade (business is adapting to change) between NI & I but Frost says "it's a problem that has to be solved".

 

 

Sort of, but there's a bit of "pro-Tory" spin in the messaging about trade moving in a North-South direction rather than East-West.

 

I mentioned in this thread a couple of days ago about the considerable increase in the amount of commercial traffic on the M1 between Dublin and Belfast.

[NANOJAMBO]

26 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Sort of, but there's a bit of "pro-Tory" spin in the messaging about trade moving in a North-South direction rather than East-West.

 

I mentioned in this thread a couple of days ago about the considerable increase in the amount of commercial traffic on the M1 between Dublin and Belfast.

Yes, we conversed briefy. As much as I loathe Frost, I'm trying to be cool when he speaks but those comments by him are just crazy. If industry is adapting and the economy is succeeding why does it matter if it's not E<->W.  Is this the DUP fear - not the sea border but the movement towards bigger economic ties with Ireland ?

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Yes, we conversed briefy. As much as I loathe Frost, I'm trying to be cool when he speaks but those comments by him are just crazy. If industry is adapting and the economy is succeeding why does it matter if it's not E<->W.  Is this the DUP fear - not the sea border but the movement towards bigger economic ties with Ireland ?

 

I think so.  You have to bear in mind that the DUP actively wants a hard border.  They have consistently opposed every proposed agreement since the peace process got under way.  I've always been able to understand why the "invisible" nature of the border was so important to people in NI with an Irish identity.  For years I could also see that UUP people were much more relaxed than their DUP counterparts about the frictionless border, but I didn't have an understanding of why until I had a chat with a car dealer a couple of years ago.  He was very definitely unionist, but also opposed to Brexit and with little time for the shenanigans of the DUP.  I put the question to him, and he gave me the unexpected answer: "because we go to the Aviva Stadium, and they don't".

 

We would not sign a deal unless it would keep NI in the Single Market.  Likewise, we wouldn't sign a deal unless it protected NI's access to the market in the rest of the UK.  We also wanted a deal that would not cause friction in the access from GB to NI.  Unlike the other provisions, we were in no position to insist on that because that is a sovereign matter for the UK and we were not entitled to interfere.  The British government said no. 

 

That's a problem for two reasons.  First of all, it is simply unreasonable for the British government to try to throw any part of the UK under the bus to get a trade agreement.  It's plain wrong, and to my mind it demonstrates just how low a priority NI is for the Westminster and Whitehall establishment.  But secondly, we were looking for an arrangement that would prevent any foul-ups in the existing flow of trade.  We were not looking for a Protocol that would lead to trade distortions.  But because of the UK government's refusal to ensure frictionless access to the NI market for GB businesses, the Protocol will drive trade away from the direct links out of places like Cairnryan and Liverpool, and towards routes like Dublin and Rosslare.  The British government is responsible for this - either deliberately or by incompetence - although of course they will try to blame the EU.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think so.  You have to bear in mind that the DUP actively wants a hard border.  They have consistently opposed every proposed agreement since the peace process got under way.  I've always been able to understand why the "invisible" nature of the border was so important to people in NI with an Irish identity.  For years I could also see that UUP people were much more relaxed than their DUP counterparts about the frictionless border, but I didn't have an understanding of why until I had a chat with a car dealer a couple of years ago.  He was very definitely unionist, but also opposed to Brexit and with little time for the shenanigans of the DUP.  I put the question to him, and he gave me the unexpected answer: "because we go to the Aviva Stadium, and they don't".

 

We would not sign a deal unless it would keep NI in the Single Market.  Likewise, we wouldn't sign a deal unless it protected NI's access to the market in the rest of the UK.  We also wanted a deal that would not cause friction in the access from GB to NI.  Unlike the other provisions, we were in no position to insist on that because that is a sovereign matter for the UK and we were not entitled to interfere.  The British government said no. 

 

That's a problem for two reasons.  First of all, it is simply unreasonable for the British government to try to throw any part of the UK under the bus to get a trade agreement.  It's plain wrong, and to my mind it demonstrates just how low a priority NI is for the Westminster and Whitehall establishment.  But secondly, we were looking for an arrangement that would prevent any foul-ups in the existing flow of trade.  We were not looking for a Protocol that would lead to trade distortions.  But because of the UK government's refusal to ensure frictionless access to the NI market for GB businesses, the Protocol will drive trade away from the direct links out of places like Cairnryan and Liverpool, and towards routes like Dublin and Rosslare.  The British government is responsible for this - either deliberately or by incompetence - although of course they will try to blame the EU.

Easy way to deal with all this pish . A United Ireland sorry reunited Ireland 🇮🇪 

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Easy way to deal with all this pish . A United Ireland sorry reunited Ireland 🇮🇪 

 

You reckon that would be easy?

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You reckon that would be easy?

Not for a few years but it will happen . 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Not for a few years but it will happen . 

 

Not in my lifetime it won't

[The Mighty Thor]

30 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Not in my lifetime it won't

I hope it happens in my lifetime.

 

It would be absolutely fantastic viewing. 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Not for a few years but it will happen . 

It’s my belief that there’s as much chance of the Israelis and Palestinians living together in peace and mutual respect as there is of Ireland reuniting.

Not much.

I still find it strange that the Remain campaign didn’t highlight the Northern Ireland issue to Brexit during the referendum campaign. It shows to me either complete incompetence or complacency on their part. The Leave campaign were hardly likely to raise it, even if they had thought about it.

Such a seemingly vital part of leaving the EU and not seriously, as I recall, ever mentioned.

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

It’s my belief that there’s as much chance of the Israelis and Palestinians living together in peace and mutual respect as there is of Ireland reuniting.

Not much.

I still find it strange that the Remain campaign didn’t highlight the Northern Ireland issue to Brexit during the referendum campaign. It shows to me either complete incompetence or complacency on their part. The Leave campaign were hardly likely to raise it, even if they had thought about it.

Such a seemingly vital part of leaving the EU and not seriously, as I recall, ever mentioned.

 

To be honest it's not even something I'd thought about prior to the issues it's causing. I didn't think for a second it would cause any major issue as I had no idea that the GFA prevented there being a hard border between the two or that the risk of unrest was real if people tried to impose one. I though that sort of stuff was now a distance memory in the EU and the West and consigned to places like Gaza and the Middle East.

 

Naive? Yes, for sure, but also pretty depressing that it is naivety.

 

Edit: that said, I'm very much of the belief that the less borders there are the better. But that also feels like a naive wish. 👎

Edited October 5, 2021 by Taffin

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

It’s my belief that there’s as much chance of the Israelis and Palestinians living together in peace and mutual respect as there is of Ireland reuniting.

Not much.

I still find it strange that the Remain campaign didn’t highlight the Northern Ireland issue to Brexit during the referendum campaign. It shows to me either complete incompetence or complacency on their part. The Leave campaign were hardly likely to raise it, even if they had thought about it.

Such a seemingly vital part of leaving the EU and not seriously, as I recall, ever mentioned.

True. But this was the beauty of an undefined Brexit meaning anything you wanted it to mean. Any NI issues could be dismissed as Project Fear, no intention to leave the CU/Single Market, easy solutions bound to be found, we hold all the cards etc

[Cade]

The swivel-eyed loons got rid of May because they didn't like her Brexit deal.

Installed Boris the clown who then negotiated their wet dream hard brexit deal then fought and won an election on the basis of that deal.

Now reality is starting to bite and things are deteriorating at pace, they suddenly want to re-write the deal.

 

Absolute charlatans.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Cade

[WorldChampions1902]

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

The swivel-eyed loons got rid of May because they didn't like her Brexit deal.

Installed Boris the clown who then negotiated their wet dream hard brexit deal then fought and won an election on the basis of that deal.

Now reality is starting to bite and things are deteriorating at pace, they suddenly want to re-write the deal.

 

Absolute charlatans.

But……but…….Sovereignty……..

 

[Cade]

The relaxing of HGV visa has led to a surge in applicants for the tens of thousands of available jobs.

 

Oh, wait.

 

Only 127 EU drivers have taken up the offer.

 

Boris insists there is no supply chain crisis, at the same time as economists are warning of massive supply chain issues all the way into the new year and the fastest rise in inflation since the 1990s.

 

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

The relaxing of HGV visa has led to a surge in applicants for the tens of thousands of available jobs.

 

Oh, wait.

 

Only 127 EU drivers have taken up the offer.

 

Boris insists there is no supply chain crisis, at the same time as economists are warning of massive supply chain issues all the way into the new year and the fastest rise in inflation since the 1990s.

 

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

 

Why would an in demand HGV driver dump his job for a few months' contract in a country where the red tape's brutal and the weather's away to get shite, rather than just swan about the EU freely?

[WorldChampions1902]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Why would an in demand HGV driver dump his job for a few months' contract in a country where the red tape's brutal and the weather's away to get shite, rather than just swan about the EU freely?

Dunno what you’re on about. The Liar-in-Chief has just been on BBC news explaining the ‘fact’ that only 127 EU workers have applied for the 5000 new HGV visa’s underlines the point that this is a global crisis.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

15 minutes ago, Cade said:

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

 

[periodictabledancer]

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think so.  You have to bear in mind that the DUP actively wants a hard border.  They have consistently opposed every proposed agreement since the peace process got under way.  I've always been able to understand why the "invisible" nature of the border was so important to people in NI with an Irish identity.  For years I could also see that UUP people were much more relaxed than their DUP counterparts about the frictionless border, but I didn't have an understanding of why until I had a chat with a car dealer a couple of years ago.  He was very definitely unionist, but also opposed to Brexit and with little time for the shenanigans of the DUP.  I put the question to him, and he gave me the unexpected answer: "because we go to the Aviva Stadium, and they don't".

 

We would not sign a deal unless it would keep NI in the Single Market.  Likewise, we wouldn't sign a deal unless it protected NI's access to the market in the rest of the UK.  We also wanted a deal that would not cause friction in the access from GB to NI.  Unlike the other provisions, we were in no position to insist on that because that is a sovereign matter for the UK and we were not entitled to interfere.  The British government said no. 

 

That's a problem for two reasons.  First of all, it is simply unreasonable for the British government to try to throw any part of the UK under the bus to get a trade agreement.  It's plain wrong, and to my mind it demonstrates just how low a priority NI is for the Westminster and Whitehall establishment.  But secondly, we were looking for an arrangement that would prevent any foul-ups in the existing flow of trade.  We were not looking for a Protocol that would lead to trade distortions.  But because of the UK government's refusal to ensure frictionless access to the NI market for GB businesses, the Protocol will drive trade away from the direct links out of places like Cairnryan and Liverpool, and towards routes like Dublin and Rosslare.  The British government is responsible for this - either deliberately or by incompetence - although of course they will try to blame the EU.

👍

[periodictabledancer]

40 minutes ago, Cade said:

The relaxing of HGV visa has led to a surge in applicants for the tens of thousands of available jobs.

 

Oh, wait.

 

Only 127 EU drivers have taken up the offer.

 

Boris insists there is no supply chain crisis, at the same time as economists are warning of massive supply chain issues all the way into the new year and the fastest rise in inflation since the 1990s.

 

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

China currently hoovering up every spare shipping container they can get. Drivers won't fix the issue of goods simply not being shipped on the first place. My logistics mate days every coy on the UK will be searching their inventory for unused containers. He had to do it weeks ago. This is biting. 

 

Also warehousing can't be emptied quick enough. Ports in  danger ofgridlock and ships being diverted. 

 

[Cade]

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

 

[Cade]

Boris says there is no alternative to rising inflation and the consequent interest rates with all the problems that will cause.

 

 

All part of the plan, apparently.

[Unknown user]

 

2 hours ago, Cade said:

The relaxing of HGV visa has led to a surge in applicants for the tens of thousands of available jobs.

 

Oh, wait.

 

Only 127 EU drivers have taken up the offer.

 

Boris insists there is no supply chain crisis, at the same time as economists are warning of massive supply chain issues all the way into the new year and the fastest rise in inflation since the 1990s.

 

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

 

20 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

Years go by but the exquisite pain of remoaners continues unabated.
Why not bypass the EU and recruit really low wage drivers, fruit pickers and baristas from sub-Saharan Africa. That would allow the hauliers and supermarkets to maximise their profits.

 

 

 

Spot on @Cade

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

The relaxing of HGV visa has led to a surge in applicants for the tens of thousands of available jobs.

 

Oh, wait.

 

Only 127 EU drivers have taken up the offer.

 

Boris insists there is no supply chain crisis, at the same time as economists are warning of massive supply chain issues all the way into the new year and the fastest rise in inflation since the 1990s.

 

Gaslighting on a national scale and the morons lap it up.

 

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Dunno what you’re on about. The Liar-in-Chief has just been on BBC news explaining the ‘fact’ that only 127 EU workers have applied for the 5000 new HGV visa’s underlines the point that this is a global crisis.

 

as ever with Johnson and his inability to tell the truth.......

 

The actual number of tanker drivers that have applied for UK visas is in fact 27 (as reported in the Times and the i) and not 127 as spaffed by the Eton mess.

[The Mighty Thor]

28 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

Why not bypass the EU and recruit really low wage drivers, fruit pickers and baristas from sub-Saharan Africa. That would allow the hauliers and supermarkets to maximise their profits.

 

 

I agree.

 

fill the vacancies and the influx of brown faces would probably finish off the type of person that voted for Brexit in the first place. 

 

Winning.

 

[Don Dan]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

The swivel-eyed loons got rid of May because they didn't like her Brexit deal.

Installed Boris the clown who then negotiated their wet dream hard brexit deal then fought and won an election on the basis of that deal.

Now reality is starting to bite and things are deteriorating at pace, they suddenly want to re-write the deal.

 

Absolute charlatans.

I think Bojo’s days are numbered he can’t keep this up much longer.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Deke Thornton said:

Years go by but the exquisite pain of remoaners continues unabated.
Why not bypass the EU and recruit really low wage drivers, fruit pickers and baristas from sub-Saharan Africa. That would allow the hauliers and supermarkets to maximise their profits.

 

 

This is precisely what is happening now.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, whilst EU immigration numbers have plummeted (they had to politically), non-EU U.K. immigration figures have soared meaning overall net immigration figures are basically unchanged. This trend will continue unabated as our economy has to fill it’s  labour shortages from somewhere as we technically have “full employment” and a reproduction rate that is way below what we require just to stand still on future employee numbers.

 

Once again, this was spelled out years ago to the hard of thinking, to the inevitable cries of “Project Fear”. So the quote, “exquisite pain of Remoaners”, you mention should be directed at Leavers.
 

It’s going to be………

[Ked]

https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2018/dec/truck-driver-shortage-crisis-now-spreading-across-the-whole-of-europe

 

For some balance..

Not taking one side or another just seems this thread isnt quite grasping the whole picture.

My opinion .

[Ked]

53 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree.

 

fill the vacancies and the influx of brown faces would probably finish off the type of person that voted for Brexit in the first place. 

 

Winning.

 

Winning a race to the bottom.

I get you are being sarcastic.

I really dont get what seems to be left minded posters arguing for low paid wage workers .

 

[Cruyff]

According to Boris, it isn't his job to fix all of the UK's problems.

 

How has no one assassinated this imbecile yet? 

[WorldChampions1902]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

According to Boris, it isn't his job to fix all of the UK's problems.

 

How has no one assassinated this imbecile yet? 

A quick scan of this thread will show he can do no wrong. Similarly the polls suggest the same. 
 

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 hours ago, Deke Thornton said:

Years go by but the exquisite pain of remoaners continues unabated.
Why not bypass the EU and recruit really low wage drivers, fruit pickers and baristas from sub-Saharan Africa. That would allow the hauliers and supermarkets to maximise their profits.

 

 

Ah, little gammon (aka wee hammy) speaks...

Give us your top 5 no, 3 benefits Brexit has provided to the ordinary Joe...

[Cade]

6 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ah, little gammon (aka wee hammy) speaks...

Give us your top 5 no, 3 benefits Brexit has provided to the ordinary Joe...

 

Coming soon: higher interest rates, a boon for savers!!!

 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ah, little gammon (aka wee hammy) speaks...

Give us your top 5 no, 3 benefits Brexit has provided to the ordinary Joe...

 

Aaaah I didn't realise that was Little Hamsted-on-the-wold, I should have known