Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Our Polish friends could be next...tick tock

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58840076

 

We live in hope.

 

Why is it so important to the hard right that the EU fails?  You'd think they'd be more concerned with the success of their own countries.

[Ulysses]

8 hours ago, Cade said:

Poland will be brought to heel and the rule of Law will be preserved.

The last two major surveys of Polish feeling towards the EU had something like 86-89% in favour.

 

There is absolutely no support for Poland leaving the EU.

The weak government is just playing the prick in a pathetic attempt to gather more support and to look the hard man.

 

As soon as all the industries in Poland that rely on EU money start going bust, the government will be out on their ear.

 

I always thought the 2004 expansion was too broad and too quick.  Many of those countries needed another 20 years (more in some cases) to develop their democratic systems, politics and institutions.  The problem is that some were at the races while others weren't anywhere near ready, but there was a pressing political need to bring the whole region in at the same time, when by rights the various countries would have been brought in on a phased basis.  I did work with a number of government bodies and civil society groups in the "new" accession countries in the 2000s, and it was plain to see which countries might be able to hack it and which ones wouldn't.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

We live in hope.

 

Why is it so important to the hard right that the EU fails?  You'd think they'd be more concerned with the success of their own countries.

They don't care if the EU fails. They're only looking for some kind of validation of the ridiculous decision to take the UK out of the EU. 

You have to try to adopt that narrow isolationist Global Britain (Great Nation) mindset as it fires the decision making process of this Government. 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

They don't care if the EU fails. They're only looking for some kind of validation of the ridiculous decision to take the UK out of the EU. 

You have to try to adopt that narrow isolationist Global Britain (Great Nation) mindset as it fires the decision making process of this Government. 

And don’t forget the “brown faces and Sovereignty” brigade. IMHO the two main lame reasons that swayed the vote the wrong way. Both of which were consequences of decisions the U.K. made using its Sovereignty (along with two other EU members), whilst the other 25 members took the sensible decision to play it safe. If only we had done the same.

 

From one of the Remain FB sites yesterday:-

 

“Here are two points that weren't raised in 2016 so have little chance of being recalled now, but I'd like to try:

 

POINT 1: mass EU immigration was a product of UK sovereignty not EU diktat.

When free movement was offered to the new intake of EU countries in the early 2000s, existing members had the option to wait seven years before opening up. This was so they could look at the likely results and plan ahead. Sensible ones did.

Three EU members made the sovereign decision to open up right away: Sweden, Ireland ... and the UK.

Now if you were an eastern European citizen looking to earn more money, who learned English not Swedish at school, and who was denied access to major western European economies like Germany, France, Italy and Spain which had made a sovereign choice not to open up yet - where the hell were you going to go? And how likely would you be, years later, to up sticks when those other countries opened up?

 

POINT 2: Failure to know what was happening once people got here was our own sovereign decision too.

Under free movement, EU members can expel foreign EU citizens if they can't support themselves unaided after a few months. The UK made the sovereign decision not to apply that rule too. Indeed, because our border and other checks were so characteristically sloppy, we didn't even know how many EU immigrants were here let alone how they supported themselves. So we could never ameliorate one of the chief complaints of Leavers, who were never told the truth of the matter.

 

The EU offered us a way out. We made the sovereign decision to spurn it.

Yet in 2016 - and ever since - the EU has been the scapegoat for our own sovereign stupidity. And still is.

What an unhappy and pitiable people we are!”.

[Konrad von Carstein]

Polexit,  not a popular choice in the minds of the Polish electorate.

Donald Tusk has some interesting things to say...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/polexit-pro-eu-protests-poland-b1935944.html?utm_campaign=Main&utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1633939031

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[Pans Jambo]

See Scottish exports have dropped by 15% since Brexit happened. That's nice.

[NANOJAMBO]

6 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And don’t forget the “brown faces and Sovereignty” brigade. IMHO the two main lame reasons that swayed the vote the wrong way. Both of which were consequences of decisions the U.K. made using its Sovereignty (along with two other EU members), whilst the other 25 members took the sensible decision to play it safe. If only we had done the same.

 

From one of the Remain FB sites yesterday:-

 

“Here are two points that weren't raised in 2016 so have little chance of being recalled now, but I'd like to try:

 

POINT 1: mass EU immigration was a product of UK sovereignty not EU diktat.

When free movement was offered to the new intake of EU countries in the early 2000s, existing members had the option to wait seven years before opening up. This was so they could look at the likely results and plan ahead. Sensible ones did.

Three EU members made the sovereign decision to open up right away: Sweden, Ireland ... and the UK.

Now if you were an eastern European citizen looking to earn more money, who learned English not Swedish at school, and who was denied access to major western European economies like Germany, France, Italy and Spain which had made a sovereign choice not to open up yet - where the hell were you going to go? And how likely would you be, years later, to up sticks when those other countries opened up?

 

POINT 2: Failure to know what was happening once people got here was our own sovereign decision too.

Under free movement, EU members can expel foreign EU citizens if they can't support themselves unaided after a few months. The UK made the sovereign decision not to apply that rule too. Indeed, because our border and other checks were so characteristically sloppy, we didn't even know how many EU immigrants were here let alone how they supported themselves. So we could never ameliorate one of the chief complaints of Leavers, who were never told the truth of the matter.

 

The EU offered us a way out. We made the sovereign decision to spurn it.

Yet in 2016 - and ever since - the EU has been the scapegoat for our own sovereign stupidity. And still is.

What an unhappy and pitiable people we are!”.

You got a link for point 1 ? That is staggering, if true. 

[NANOJAMBO]

17 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

See Scottish exports have dropped by 15% since Brexit happened. That's nice.

Brexiters - "Covid !!!!!"

 

NI - huge increase in EU imports/exports 

 

Brexiters - "scrap the NIP !!!!!! " 

[Cade]

Trade war looming in January after the transition period ends.

 

UK still making ludicrous demands and rejecting out of hand all compromises offered by the EU.

 

If the UK a nation that abides by international treaties which it has signed, or is it not? Simple question.

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Trade war looming in January after the transition period ends.

 

UK still making ludicrous demands and rejecting out of hand all compromises offered by the EU.

 

If the UK a nation that abides by international treaties which it has signed, or is it not? Simple question.

No. It couldn't be clearer. 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Trade war looming in January after the transition period ends.

 

UK still making ludicrous demands and rejecting out of hand all compromises offered by the EU.

 

If the UK a nation that abides by international treaties which it has signed, or is it not? Simple question.

This Junta has made it clear that it is perfectly acceptable to quote, "break international law in a limited and specific way".

[WorldChampions1902]

3 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You got a link for point 1 ? That is staggering, if true. 

Not got the link . Will post if it turns up later.

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

This Junta has made it clear that it is perfectly acceptable to quote, "break international law in a limited and specific way".

Just seen a tweet of a 2019  clip from a HoC meeting in which one of Clownshoes EU advisors talks of the now need for checks and poses the question as to whether UK will actually comply or simply pay the fines as it might be too much hassle to implement.  

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You got a link for point 1 ? That is staggering, if true. 

 

54 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Not got the link . Will post if it turns up later.

 

These might help.  The first link (from 2016) gives a bit of background to the thinking of the British government at the time - and points out that the decision met with no opposition in Parliament.  The second (three months before accession in 2004) is an Irish news report.  It gives a sense of the Irish economy's big demand for labour at the time, but what it doesn't mention is that it also made some sense to follow or match the UK policy, because it made it easier to manage the Common Travel Area.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland-britain-to-uphold-workers-freedom-of-movement-1.1132210

 

On a related note, most of the other EUR 15 countries only maintained restrictions for 2 or 3 years.  However, a big percentage of the outward migration from the former Warsaw Pact countries happened in that couple of years.  Whatever about the political effects of that migration in the UK, there were little or no damaging economic effects.  Britain and Ireland were both at full employment in those years, and domestic labour supply couldn't keep up, and in any case both countries had been liberally issuing work visas to applicants from the accession states from 2001 onwards.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ulysses

[WorldChampions1902]

@Ulysses

Thanks for posting the links. Fascinating stuff. This bit resonated too, “In Germany, Austria, France and Italy, months of public debate led to the imposition of transitional controls, largely because of fears over job displacement, and in turn pressure from trade unions.

 

If only our Trades Unions were feared in similar fashion. Yet another unintended consequence of weakened Unions and their membership numbers perhaps.

[NANOJAMBO]

52 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

These might help.  The first link (from 2016) gives a bit of background to the thinking of the British government at the time - and points out that the decision met with no opposition in Parliament.  The second (three months before accession in 2004) is an Irish news report.  It gives a sense of the Irish economy's big demand for labour at the time, but what it doesn't mention is that it also made some sense to follow or match the UK policy, because it made it easier to manage the Common Travel Area.

 

https://theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland-britain-to-uphold-workers-freedom-of-movement-1.1132210

 

On a related note, most of the other EUR 15 countries only maintained restrictions for 2 or 3 years.  However, a big percentage of the outward migration from the former Warsaw Pact countries happened in that couple of years.  Whatever about the political effects of that migration in the UK, there were little or no damaging economic effects.  Britain and Ireland were both at full employment in those years, and domestic labour supply couldn't keep up, and in any case both countries had been liberally issuing work visas to applicants from the accession states from 2001 onwards.

Much appreciated. 

[Ulysses]

55 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

@Ulysses

Thanks for posting the links. Fascinating stuff. This bit resonated too, “In Germany, Austria, France and Italy, months of public debate led to the imposition of transitional controls, largely because of fears over job displacement, and in turn pressure from trade unions.

 

If only our Trades Unions were feared in similar fashion. Yet another unintended consequence of weakened Unions and their membership numbers perhaps.

 

Yep.  We're storing up a similar problem, IMO.  Our unions are quite weak, particularly in the commercial sector, but because the economy has (with one interruption) been on an upward curve for almost 30 years that hasn't necessarily translated into poorer pay and working conditions.  But I suspect it might as the economy moves into a more mature and stable/stagnant phase in the future, which it has to do at some point.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ulysses

[NANOJAMBO]

2It delivers every

"It delivers everything we wanted from brexit"....

 

It also delivered a very successful NI economy whose much improved economy stands in marked contrast to the (now) expected growing pains/transition pains the UK mainland is being told to suck up. Which in itself is a contradiction of Clownshoes et al who say NONE of our current problems are caused by brexit. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[NANOJAMBO]

Here it is. Johnson lied, the ERG cultists knew it , it was a bad deal but brexit had to be "done".

It was never going to be implemented.  Jenkin signed it off knowing he (now) doesn't agree with it. 

 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Here it is. Johnson lied, the ERG cultists knew it , it was a bad deal but brexit had to be "done".

It was never going to be implemented.  Jenkin signed it off knowing he (now) doesn't agree with it. 

 

He's right, they have tried to make it worse. And successfully, too. Scotland is now fecked. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Ah Bernard Jenkin giving a great insight into the many faces required to be an obsequious Conservative.

 

'The EU took advantage of us' 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Here it is. Johnson lied, the ERG cultists knew it , it was a bad deal but brexit had to be "done".

It was never going to be implemented.  Jenkin signed it off knowing he (now) doesn't agree with it. 

 

His one truth was right at the end "we've tried to make it worse".

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Here it is. Johnson lied, the ERG cultists knew it , it was a bad deal but brexit had to be "done".

It was never going to be implemented.  Jenkin signed it off knowing he (now) doesn't agree with it. 

 

His one truth was right at the end "we've tried to make it worse".

[WorldChampions1902]

Sweet Jesus!

 

The Liar-In-Chief proclaimed it at the time as quote, “a cakeist Treaty!”, We had our cake and eat it he shouted from the rooftops. And the brain dead that voted Leave, still believe we have our cake and eat it. They still believe Brexit is the best thing. They still believe that what we have gone through since January are teething problems. They still believe the experts were and are wrong. 

 

“Cultists” doesn’t do it justice.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

His one truth was right at the end "we've tried to make it worse".

He says "work" although it's not clear how you make a deal "work" when you didn't agree with  it in the first place. Watching the rowing back of so many,  their blatant lying ,  is staggering. 

 

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He says "work" although it's not clear how you make a deal "work" when you didn't agree with  it in the first place. Watching the rowing back of so many,  their blatant lying ,  is staggering. 

 

He says worse first

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He says "work" although it's not clear how you make a deal "work" when you didn't agree with  it in the first place. Watching the rowing back of so many,  their blatant lying ,  is staggering. 

 

 

He says worse first by mistake though. A Freudian slip I think Joey is highlighting, or rather Ri initially highlighted earlier on.

[NANOJAMBO]

[JudyJudyJudy]

I just thank god we rarely have referendums . The public should not be able to vote on some issues . Their rational and objectivity goes out the window and their feelings take over or personal prejudices  . The main one was Brexit was peoples xenophobia and racism . It’s really that simple . It bypassed their common sense and practical thinking about what a real Brexit would consist of . There has been consistent polls where hanging would be brought back if it were a referendum . Even before homosexuality was legalised there were polls where the majority still wanted it illegal . 

[Mikey1874]

I was reading that for example lorry drivers, the biggest effect on losing people has been tax changes. HMRC clamping down on people declaring as self employed when they are effectively employees. Losing £000s per month. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

He says "work" although it's not clear how you make a deal "work" when you didn't agree with  it in the first place. Watching the rowing back of so many,  their blatant lying ,  is staggering. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

He says worse first

He definitely says worse, then changes it.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

I just thank god we rarely have referendums . The public should not be able to vote on some issues . Their rational and objectivity goes out the window and their feelings take over or personal prejudices  . The main one was Brexit was peoples xenophobia and racism . It’s really that simple . It bypassed their common sense and practical thinking about what a real Brexit would consist of . There has been consistent polls where hanging would be brought back if it were a referendum . Even before homosexuality was legalised there were polls where the majority still wanted it illegal . 

Hanging should be brought back for certain offences imo.

[Ked]

42 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

I was reading that for example lorry drivers, the biggest effect on losing people has been tax changes. HMRC clamping down on people declaring as self employed when they are effectively employees. Losing £000s per month. 

Brexits had an effect but the driver shortage is much more than that and is a problem for much of Europe.

 

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, Ked said:

Brexits had an effect but the driver shortage is much more than that and is a problem for much of Europe.

 

 

It's a much smaller problem for the rest of Europe because they haven't massively ****ed up how attractive they are to drivers - visas, paperwork, tailbacks, lorry parks with terrible facilities.

Brexit hasn't just had an effect, it's had an enormous effect.

[Ked]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's a much smaller problem for the rest of Europe because they haven't massively ****ed up how attractive they are to drivers - visas, paperwork, tailbacks, lorry parks with terrible facilities.

Brexit hasn't just had an effect, it's had an enormous effect.

It's really not.

https://www.transportlogistic.de/en/trade-fair/industry-insights/truck-driver-shortage/

 

It's a variety of things.While brexit may not help it's nowhere near the enormous effect you wish it to be.

In fact the only reason that brexit is as much of a problem as it is can be levelled at the current government.

Supply chains are choking up globally and merely shouting brexit is false.

It does however lessen our ability to solve these problems.

China for instance is buying at an incredible rate shipping containers.

Anyway the driving game is massively a problem in Germany due to the factors in the link.

And those along with tax in the UK are the same.

I wont bother listing them as it's all in the link.

These problems were coming brexit or not.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

It's really not.

https://www.transportlogistic.de/en/trade-fair/industry-insights/truck-driver-shortage/

 

It's a variety of things.While brexit may not help it's nowhere near the enormous effect you wish it to be.

In fact the only reason that brexit is as much of a problem as it is can be levelled at the current government.

Supply chains are choking up globally and merely shouting brexit is false.

It does however lessen our ability to solve these problems.

China for instance is buying at an incredible rate shipping containers.

Anyway the driving game is massively a problem in Germany due to the factors in the link.

And those along with tax in the UK are the same.

I wont bother listing them as it's all in the link.

These problems were coming brexit or not.

 

It really has, that's why the visa scheme set up to sort the problem was taken up by only a handful of people before having to be extended. The UK has made itself uncompetitive to the drivers who are available, drivers who can choose to wheel freely around Europe or jump over hurdles to come here.

[Ked]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It really has, that's why the visa scheme set up to sort the problem was taken up by only a handful of people before having to be extended. The UK has made itself uncompetitive to the drivers who are available, drivers who can choose to wheel freely around Europe or jump over hurdles to come here.

If you choose to believe that it's up to you.

The shortages are the same and the reasons for those shortages are the same.

And while there maybe some extra paperwork that to counter your claims of enormous effect are minuscule.

Did you read the link?

Poor pay

Poor conditions

High pressure timescales

Penalties for late deliveries

Bad working hours

Low social standing regards driving

40,000 leaving per year 

16,000 joining.

That was German figures.

We as a society now expect everything on a plate 24 hours.

Supermarkets squeeze the costs on those that supply farmers drivers logistics.

I am not advocating brexit but this really is something we all should be ready to accept.

Supply chains are creaking globally and you cant just blame it all on brexit.

Because it's just not true.

Be great if it was that simple.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

I just thank god we rarely have referendums . The public should not be able to vote on some issues . Their rational and objectivity goes out the window and their feelings take over or personal prejudices  . The main one was Brexit was peoples xenophobia and racism . It’s really that simple . It bypassed their common sense and practical thinking about what a real Brexit would consist of . There has been consistent polls where hanging would be brought back if it were a referendum . Even before homosexuality was legalised there were polls where the majority still wanted it illegal . 

When KGB spies poisoned the Skripals in Salisbury, one of my colleagues was adamant that we should have retaliated with a nuclear missile. I kid you not! I genuinely thought he was joking and previously believed he was of at least average intelligence.

 

There’s a reason why the Tories are reluctant to invest heavily in our state education system.

Edited October 12, 2021 by WorldChampions1902

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

When KGB spies poisoned the Skripals in Salisbury, one of my colleagues was adamant that we should have retaliated with a nuclear missile. I kid you not! I genuinely thought he was joking and previously believed he was of at least average intelligence.

 

There’s a reason why the Tories are reluctant to invest heavily in our state education system.

Hence my aversion to referendums 👍critical thinking , rational and taking a deep breath are forgotten I think ( for some ) 

Edited October 12, 2021 by JamesM48

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Ked said:

If you choose to believe that it's up to you.

The shortages are the same and the reasons for those shortages are the same.

And while there maybe some extra paperwork that to counter your claims of enormous effect are minuscule.

Did you read the link?

Poor pay

Poor conditions

High pressure timescales

Penalties for late deliveries

Bad working hours

Low social standing regards driving

40,000 leaving per year 

16,000 joining.

That was German figures.

We as a society now expect everything on a plate 24 hours.

Supermarkets squeeze the costs on those that supply farmers drivers logistics.

I am not advocating brexit but this really is something we all should be ready to accept.

Supply chains are creaking globally and you cant just blame it all on brexit.

Because it's just not true.

Be great if it was that simple.

 

 

No one's blaming it all on brexit. 

Watch our problems grow though, as brexit has hampered our ability to deal with this issue massively.

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

No one's blaming it all on brexit. 

Watch our problems grow though, as brexit has hampered our ability to deal with this issue massively.

Our problems are likely to grow most likely because we have a shit government.

Let alone brexit.

 

Asides from all of that though I do think that globally the problems coming our way are massive.

For us in the west it will probably mean power shortage less choice of goods.

Will Europe suffer less ?

I dont think so.

For most of the world it will mean death hunger even more abject poverty.

This doesnt cover climate change,mass migration and wars.

🙂

Pessimistic mood I'm in hopefully these things dont come too pass.

But they are predicted .

And theres no solution  politically that I can see happening.

Unless you count a new world order and a cull of at least half the worlds population.

With birth control imposed and a few million chosen ones.

Unfortunately I dont think my skill set and definitely not my intelligence would see me make that list.

😂

Hope this cheered you up

😛

[WorldChampions1902]

The Telegraph now running with the story of economist David Card, “the Father of Open Migration Policies”, who showed that “large waves of unskilled immigration do not undermine local workers job prospects or wages”.

Why? Because he has just been awarded this years economics Nobel Prize.

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The Telegraph now running with the story of economist David Card, “the Father of Open Migration Policies”, who showed that “large waves of unskilled immigration do not undermine local workers job prospects or wages”.

Why? Because he has just been awarded this years economics Nobel Prize.

 

 

 

Maybe he can quote the American study that showed kicking low paid labour out does not drive up wages.  It makes the point, migrants will go to places native workers will not ie that's why they're there in the first place . In the American study, after Mexicans were booted out of California, farmers either mechanised to manage the loss of labour or went bust. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

It's really not.

https://www.transportlogistic.de/en/trade-fair/industry-insights/truck-driver-shortage/

 

It's a variety of things.While brexit may not help it's nowhere near the enormous effect you wish it to be.

In fact the only reason that brexit is as much of a problem as it is can be levelled at the current government.

Supply chains are choking up globally and merely shouting brexit is false.

It does however lessen our ability to solve these problems.

China for instance is buying at an incredible rate shipping containers.

Anyway the driving game is massively a problem in Germany due to the factors in the link.

And those along with tax in the UK are the same.

I wont bother listing them as it's all in the link.

These problems were coming brexit or not.

Brexit was the tippng point - 15 -20, 000 drivers lost in 3 years to 2019.  Brexit and ending FoM means it can't be easily/quickly fixed.

All of a sudden , global supply chains are weakening and yet not a word about this in the years leading up to the current crisis.  What folk don't get is , huge amounts of fresh produce come in daily (espcecially from NL) in vans & lorries. It doesn't come in giant container ships into Felixstowe but  the usual ignorant suspects are tweeting about 7 day waits in Charleston or  100s ships moored off the Californian coast - it's irrelevant.  I'm not bothered about cheap, crappy consumer goods pouring out of China but I do care that I often can't get the day to day foodstuffs that weren't a problem pre 2016.  We don't need ships or giant containers to get that into the UK. 

 

As for getting it on lorries/vans - I was talking to an ex import/export guy who pointed out that this is going to get worse because Irish drivers who'd normally go Dublin/Holyhead (and possibly do a bit of extra work bringing  goods into UK or moving goods around on their return leg) will do so in ever decreasing numbers because the Irish govrenment has invested heavily in super ferries to by-pass the UK land bridge as they don't trust the UK.

They've gone from 12  to 44 in less than 5 years. 

[The Mighty Thor]

18 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

As for getting it on lorries/vans - I was talking to an ex import/export guy who pointed out that this is going to get worse because Irish drivers who'd normally go Dublin/Holyhead (and possibly do a bit of extra work bringing  goods into UK or moving goods around on their return leg) will do so in ever decreasing numbers because the Irish govrenment has invested heavily in super ferries to by-pass the UK land bridge as they don't trust the UK.

They've gone from 12  to 44 in less than 5 years. 

Back hauling was always a great way for freight forwarding/transport companies to maximise the capacity carried by the UK or European fleets. It's apparently down to negligible levels now especially on the cross channel routes. Indeed European freight forwarders now just want to drop trailers at ports to avoid the time and paperwork involved in moving goods into the UK and tying up wagons and drivers for an inordinate amount of time.

 

Mind when Priti Patel wanted to starve out the Irish by blockading food imports from the EU into Ireland? 

 

How's that working out for you, you racist boot?

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Back hauling was always a great way for freight forwarding/transport companies to maximise the capacity carried by the UK or European fleets. It's apparently down to negligible levels now especially on the cross channel routes. Indeed European freight forwarders now just want to drop trailers at ports to avoid the time and paperwork involved in moving goods into the UK and tying up wagons and drivers for an inordinate amount of time.

 

Mind when Priti Patel wanted to starve out the Irish by blockading food imports from the EU into Ireland? 

 

How's that working out for you, you racist boot?

The bloke I converse with (over 30 years  exprience) is saying even traffic on Dublin/Holyhead is drastically reduced as hauliers just don't want the risk of delays at Dover. He forceast 2 years ago that Holyhead would be virtually redundant (as yet, it still can't do customs checks as there's no space at the port for lorries so the govt is building a brand new facility some distance away)

Meanwhile the French have opened a big new facility  at Dunkerque as part of Ire/Fra expansion. . 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

If you choose to believe that it's up to you.

The shortages are the same and the reasons for those shortages are the same.

And while there maybe some extra paperwork that to counter your claims of enormous effect are minuscule.

Did you read the link?

Poor pay

Poor conditions

High pressure timescales

Penalties for late deliveries

Bad working hours

Low social standing regards driving

40,000 leaving per year 

16,000 joining.

That was German figures.

We as a society now expect everything on a plate 24 hours.

Supermarkets squeeze the costs on those that supply farmers drivers logistics.

I am not advocating brexit but this really is something we all should be ready to accept.

Supply chains are creaking globally and you cant just blame it all on brexit.

Because it's just not true.

Be great if it was that simple.

 

 

Good post. We need to make HGV driving attractive domestically and we need to get HGV employers to shoulder a reasonable burden of that.

 

Brexit is shit, but the EU only ever gave us a sticking plaster on this subject.

[NANOJAMBO]

Aside from the death threats - just look at the projected  costs. But no one batted an eye lid. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[NANOJAMBO]

28 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Good post. We need to make HGV driving attractive domestically and we need to get HGV employers to shoulder a reasonable burden of that.

 

Brexit is shit, but the EU only ever gave us a sticking plaster on this subject.

Holyhead has a relatively new HGV specific services area (built 2015) . But the traffic has collapsed to the point a profitable business became a loss maker in 2021 so HMRC has bought it for their customs post.

 

The irony of HMRC building a customs post in 2022  (which is why there's been no checks on inward fright from EU in UK to date : there's no facility at Dover & Holyhead) to serve a dead duck ferry port.  

 

 

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Holyhead has a relatively new HGV specific services area (built 2015) . But the traffic has collapsed to the point a profitable business became a loss maker in 2021 so HMRC has bought it for their customs post.

 

The irony of HMRC building a customs post in 2022  (which is why there's been no checks on inward fright from EU in UK to date : there's no facility at Dover & Holyhead) to serve a dead duck ferry port.  

 

 

 

🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Not sure what your point is in relation to my post sorry.