Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, RobboM said:

My gut feeling is that Johnson's strategy has been to get an early election under the guise of No Deal to steal the Brexit party vote. I think he is banking on getting a workable majority that then allows him to negotiate a deal that he can then whip through parliament with no intention at all of having to preside over a No Deal chaos. A sheep in wolf's clothing.

That's why I think he is quite so desperate now for an election that doesn't call his No Deal bluff.

Negotiate a deal with who?

[RobboM]

12 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Negotiate a deal with who?

With the EU!

The EU can't negotiate with the UK government as they have proved incapable of delivering any deal they agree in Brussels. A Johnson government with a working majority is a different proposition. I'm sure the backstop would be resolved by something face saving on both sides, maybe re-brand it the "British" backstop, and other minor negotiating compromises on both sides would be forthcoming. Once he has his own Boris Brexit deal then the threat from the Brexit Party is put to bed. There are 5 years to the next election and his betrayal of any "No Deal" pledge is ancient history.

All imo and explains why he is desperate to get the election before his No Deal bluff is called.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, RobboM said:

With the EU!

The EU can't negotiate with the UK government as they have proved incapable of delivering any deal they agree in Brussels. A Johnson government with a working majority is a different proposition. I'm sure the backstop would be resolved by something face saving on both sides, maybe re-brand it the "British" backstop, and other minor negotiating compromises on both sides would be forthcoming. Once he has his own Boris Brexit deal then the threat from the Brexit Party is put to bed. There are 5 years to the next election and his betrayal of any "No Deal" pledge is ancient history.

All imo and explains why he is desperate to get the election before his No Deal bluff is called.

Starting negotiations all over again.

No chance.

[JackLadd]

EU can thumb their nose at BoJo after Jezzbollah hamstrung him but a no deal is going to cost them £40bn in divorce settlement. I assume Nipster will refuse any extra money that was going to be heading to Brussels on principle. Maybe she will ask our share is handed to them as a down payment or something.  

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

EU can thumb their nose at BoJo after Jezzbollah hamstrung him but a no deal is going to cost them £40bn in divorce settlement. I assume Nipster will refuse any extra money that was going to be heading to Brussels on principle. Maybe she will ask our share is handed to them as a down payment or something.  

You do realise that No Deal is ONLY a negotiating position and not a solution?
 

As soon as No Deal is in place the UK will be desperate for a deal. First item on the agenda is the Divorce Settlement. Maybe the £40 bn bill will go up depending on just how chaotic No Deal Britain is!
 

[Pans Jambo]

So is 4 Nil or 5 against BoJo now?

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

EU can thumb their nose at BoJo after Jezzbollah hamstrung him but a no deal is going to cost them £40bn in divorce settlement. I assume Nipster will refuse any extra money that was going to be heading to Brussels on principle. Maybe she will ask our share is handed to them as a down payment or something.  

[XB52]

3 minutes ago, RobboM said:

You do realise that No Deal is ONLY a negotiating position and not a solution?
 

As soon as No Deal is in place the UK will be desperate for a deal. First item on the agenda is the Divorce Settlement. Maybe the £40 bn bill will go up depending on just how chaotic No Deal Britain is!
 

he doesn't realise anything really, too busy making up hilarious names for politicians

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

he doesn't realise anything really, too busy making up hilarious names for politicians

Agreed. It's ****ing tedious!

[hughesie27]

37 minutes ago, RobboM said:

With the EU!

The EU can't negotiate with the UK government as they have proved incapable of delivering any deal they agree in Brussels. A Johnson government with a working majority is a different proposition. I'm sure the backstop would be resolved by something face saving on both sides, maybe re-brand it the "British" backstop, and other minor negotiating compromises on both sides would be forthcoming. Once he has his own Boris Brexit deal then the threat from the Brexit Party is put to bed. There are 5 years to the next election and his betrayal of any "No Deal" pledge is ancient history.

All imo and explains why he is desperate to get the election before his No Deal bluff is called.

Why would the EU go back to the table when they have already got a deal that they are happy with and that the Governement/PM is happy with? Any renegotiating the UK want would just entail the EU giving way to more concessions, not the other way.

[RobboM]

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Why would the EU go back to the table when they have already got a deal that they are happy with and that the Governement/PM is happy with? Any renegotiating the UK want would just entail the EU giving way to more concessions, not the other way.

I don't think it would need to be anything substantial, just enough for Boris domestically to brand it as his own and a great victory (see Trump and trade deals). From the EU point of view No Deal is unattractive and a UK government with a majority and 5 years on their side is worthwhile making trivial concessions to.

[Pans Jambo]

Why are folk still talking about deals and negotiating. 

THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING GOING ON NOW!!!

 

Both the Irish PM & Junker has already said team GB are just wasting time and being disingenuous. 

THE TORIES DONT WANT A DEAL. THEY NEVER HAVE!!!

[Cade]

Today the first proposals to replacing the Backstop were put to the EU.

They more or less laughed in our faces, spanked the poor sod who delivered them and sent him home.

 

Our government is trying to bluff all sides at the same time and it's being exposed as such on a daily basis.

[RobboM]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Why are folk still talking about deals and negotiating. 

THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING GOING ON NOW!!!

 

Both the Irish PM & Junker has already said team GB are just wasting time and being disingenuous. 

THE TORIES DONT WANT A DEAL. THEY NEVER HAVE!!!

Calm down Pans, I'm not talking about NOW 😋

I'm talking about Johnson's strategy and desperation to get an election so his No Deal bluff can't be called. I think his No Deal chat is nonsense and he would not want to fight an election in a chaotic No Deal Britain that he himself had caused.

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Calm down Pans, I'm not talking about NOW 😋

I'm talking about Johnson's strategy and desperation to get an election so his No Deal bluff can't be called. I think his No Deal chat is nonsense and he would not want to fight an election in a chaotic No Deal Britain that he himself had caused.

CAPITALS DO LOOK A BIT SHOUTY RIGHT ENOUGH!!!

Aye fair enough but he wont be given the chance. The “rebel alliance” is in control for now although I think he will still prorogue but thats futile now as the Lords have passed the bill to stop a no deal. Elections mid November after another extension from the EU is my guess. 

Boris’s plan is in tatters. 

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, RobboM said:

Actually No.

As your votes would have been split 50/50 the overall % difference between Leave and Remain would have been closer. Eg add 10million to each side would have reduced the gap 51.19% to 48.81%

but the larger turn-out would surely have made the outcome more legitimate which was the point I was replying to. 

So actually yes. 

and so on and on ...

Edited September 6, 2019 by Francis Albert

[RobboM]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

but the larger turn-out would surely have made the outcome more legitimate which was the point I was replying to. 

So actually yes. 

and so on and on ...

Not necesarily 😋

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/16/iraq

 

 

[jake]

Is it true under this bill which forbids a no deal exit that the EU get to set how long brexit will be delayed for ?

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, jake said:

Is it true under this bill which forbids a no deal exit that the EU get to set how long brexit will be delayed for ?

No. It's up to Wm whether they accept the date or not.

[Victorian]

15 minutes ago, jake said:

Is it true under this bill which forbids a no deal exit that the EU get to set how long brexit will be delayed for ?

 

That's what all the Brexit fascists are trying to claim.    Patently untrue though.    But the truth is a total stranger to these weirdos.    

[Boof]

3 hours ago, JackLadd said:

EU can thumb their nose at BoJo after Jezzbollah hamstrung him but a no deal is going to cost them £40bn in divorce settlement. I assume Nipster will refuse any extra money that was going to be heading to Brussels on principle. Maybe she will ask our share is handed to them as a down payment or something.  

 

Do you have the remotest iota of self-awareness to realise that those infantile nicknames completely detract from anything meaningful you wish to opine?

 

Not that there appears to be anything meaningful once one has managed to sift through the dross.

[Cade]

"Democratic Football Lads Alliance" (of which none of the words in the name are true) have threatened mass riots across the UK after learning that the no-deal block law had passed.

 

Eagerly await seeing pictures of overweight, tattoo-covered white blokes in their 50's covered in blood after a run-in with the riot cops.

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, jake said:

Is it true under this bill which forbids a no deal exit that the EU get to set how long brexit will be delayed for ?

 

8 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

No. It's up to Wm whether they accept the date or not.

 

So EU says 31 March. Parliament agrees this. 

 

Brexit Party and Lib Dems between them take enough votes to stop Tories at General Election. 

 

EU gets a favourable Government to give us Ken Clarke's suggestion of customs union / single market Norway style deal to be confirmed in a referendum. 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

So EU says 31 March. Parliament agrees this. 

 

Brexit Party and Lib Dems between them take enough votes to stop Tories at General Election. 

 

EU gets a favourable Government to give us Ken Clarke's suggestion of customs union / single market Norway style deal to be confirmed in a referendum. 

EU suggests a date, parliament votes on it.

I expect a no deal brexit, come January 31, when the Tories repeal the no deal stopper. After the win a landslide G.E in November.

Edited September 6, 2019 by ri Alban

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

"Democratic Football Lads Alliance" (of which none of the words in the name are true) have threatened mass riots across the UK after learning that the no-deal block law had passed.

 

Eagerly await seeing pictures of overweight, tattoo-covered white blokes in their 50's covered in blood after a run-in with the riot cops.

 

Just as well Boris is recruiting more Police then. He has done something useful. 

[JackLadd]

41 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Do you have the remotest iota of self-awareness to realise that those infantile nicknames completely detract from anything meaningful you wish to opine?

 

Not that there appears to be anything meaningful once one has managed to sift through the dross.

 

I don't like these people so why shouldn't I affix nicknames and make fun of them?  It's no different to calling opposition footballers and teams names, you've never done that tho, right? I bet if I sifted your dross (post history) I'd find pejorative insults. 

[hughesie27]

51 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

EU suggests a date, parliament votes on it.

I expect a no deal brexit, come January 31, when the Tories repeal the no deal stopper. After the win a landslide G.E in November.

If that happened wouldn't they just vote through May's deal?

[Boof]

16 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

I don't like these people so why shouldn't I affix nicknames and make fun of them? 

 

 

 

It's no different to calling opposition footballers and teams names, you've never done that tho, right?

 

 

 

 

I bet if I sifted your dross (post history) I'd find pejorative insults. 

 

1) As I've apparently failed in trying to explain - because it makes your argument appear to come from someone with the mentality of a five year-old. To claim you 'don't like them'  completely validates my point.

 

2) What has that got to do with debating this issue?

 

3) Go right ahead. Let me know what you find.

[Mikey1874]

[Mikey1874]

 

[annushorribilis III]

12 hours ago, DarthVodka said:

 

This is the only way around this impasse I feel and there should be no campaigning or meddling by politicians during this, there should be an guide created by some independent group from political parties stating the facts and likely outcomes (I'm not sure that is even possible).

 

After that result and result delivered then a GE to determine who leads the country after.  A GE before or at same time as a referendum would lead to alot of daft votes being cast.  i.e. votes for Brexit party not realising Farage would have a say in running things after Brexit

 

 

Seems like common sense to me., especially given we are still awaiting the outcome of the criminal investigation into "Leave " campaign funding.  Instead of that the country is reduced to a PM inciting a GE because he thinks he can win a majority ( for what ? leave ?). How many GEs , how many changes of PM does it take to sort this mess out ?  

[Sidelight]

With his cubist shape Henry the eighth is subliminal.

Rome and the Celtic priority are nationalising our nation.

No SJW masquerading here.

Where are the dissenters?

 

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

If that happened wouldn't they just vote through May's deal?

No. That'd be Pointless, you'd be aswell remaining.

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

With his cubist shape Henry the eighth is subliminal.

Rome and the Celtic hordes are nationalising our nation.

No SJW masquerading here.

Where are the dissenters?

 

You sound like the Orangemen I know.

[Sidelight]

13 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You sound like the Orangemen I know.

The absurdity of a fact free zone.

Shallow eyes over an autumn view.

 

[Sidelight]

28 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You sound like the Orangemen I know.

 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

The absurdity of a fact free zone.

Shallow eyes over an autumn view.

 

Oan yonder hill, thair stood a coo

It must a moved, coz it's no thair noo.

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

 

Oan ither hill, thair stood a dookit.

It's no thair noo, coz somekant took it.

[Sidelight]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Oan ither hill, thair stood a dookit.

It's no thair noo, coz somekant took it.

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

Were ye jist back from church?

[kingantti1874]

They shouldn’t allow a GE until brexit has been agreed, the coalinition should call a vote of no confidence, take control of the papers.. finish brexit on way or another and then And only then support a GE.

 

i suspect this is what will happen, they will play the card that they just don’t trust basjaws to repeal the law and take out with no deal..

 

game set and match

[Francis Albert]

8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

EU suggests a date, parliament votes on it

I expect a no deal brexit, come January 31, when the Tories repeal the no deal stopper. After the win a landslide G.E in November.

But as long as Parliament is bound by the "no no- deal exit" law, can parliament reject any date proposed by the EU.

The "Brexit fascists" may have a point?

 

[Francis Albert]

double post squared

Edited September 7, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

EU suggests a date, parliament votes on it

I expect a no deal brexit, come January 31, when the Tories repeal the no deal stopper. After the win a landslide G.E in November.

But as long as Parliament is bound by the "no no- deal exit" law, can parliament reject any date proposed by the EU?.

The "Brexit fascists" may have a point?

 

[Francis Albert]

8 hours ago, ri Alban said:

EU suggests a date, parliament votes on it

I expect a no deal brexit, come January 31, when the Tories repeal the no deal stopper. After the win a landslide G.E in November.

But as long as Parliament is bound by the "no no- deal exit" law, can parliament reject any date proposed by the EU?.

The "Brexit fascists" may have a point?

 

[hughesie27]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

No. That'd be Pointless, you'd be aswell remaining.

?

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

?

May's Deal was in the eu without the goodies.

[hughesie27]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

May's Deal was in the eu without the goodies.

Johnson himself voted for it on the 3rd go.

[AlphonseCapone]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

You sound like the Orangemen I know.

 

Interestingly he edited Rome and Celtic hordes to Rome and Celtic priorities but you quoted him quick enough to catch his original

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Johnson himself voted for it on the 3rd go.

I know. Weird, int it.