Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[The Real Maroonblood]

John Bercow has been very good especially keeping the cockwombles in place particularly the Tories.

[Cade]

Attorney General arguing that advisors are unelected and can't be held accountable to parliament but MPs can...........

 

What kind of feckin bonkers logic is that?

 

 

[Don Dan]

13 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Please give examples of where he "lost his impartiality", and that doesn't includes actions he has taken which have consequences which don't agree with your own particular political stance.

 

I new someone would  ask that lol.

you obviously haven't  follow is decision on what to allow and what to block in the very recent past. 

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Government has had ample opportunity to get Brexit implemented. 

 

Ample time however it was blocked at every opportunity by those why there own agendas and even their constituents wishes. 

PS I want A50 revoked. 

[Don Dan]

In order to be impartial, the Speaker resigns from their party, and - while they still stand in general elections - they are usually unopposed by the main parties, and they do not campaign on political issues.

But Ms Leadsom - who has clashed with Mr Bercow in the past - said the Tories would ignore this convention and stand against him at the next election.

She said the role of the Speaker was to be "a politically impartial, independent umpire of proceedings" and to "protect the constitution and oversee the behaviour of the House".

"But last week, the current Speaker failed us," she said.

Leadsom questions Speaker's impartiality

Tory MP seeks support to remove Bercow

Who is John Bercow?

By allowing the use of Standing Order Number 24 - a procedure normally used to trigger emergency debates - to take over the Parliamentary timetable , Mr Bercow had not "just bent the rules, he has broken them", she said.

The move meant opposition and rebel MPs could pass a law blocking a no-deal Brexit, which the prime minister said undermined his Brexit strategy.

Ms Leadsom said allowing the opposition to control the agenda in this way "ignores the government's right to govern" and undermines democracy, prompting Mr Johnson's call for a general election.

"Bring it on, I say, and give us back an impartial speaker," she said.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I new someone would  ask that lol.

you obviously haven't  follow is decision on what to allow and what to block in the very recent past. 

 

If you could answer the question I asked, with specific examples, then I would be most grateful. Remember that "impartiality" might not seem so to someone who regards it with partiality.

[Don Dan]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

If you could answer the question I asked, with specific examples, then I would be most grateful. Remember that "impartiality" might not seem so to someone who regards it with partiality.

 

See the post above ^^^^^

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

If you could answer the question I asked, with specific examples, then I would be most grateful. Remember that "impartiality" might not seem so to someone who regards it with partiality.

 

He has chosen to stand down because he knows he failed to be impartial. He’s done what he needed to do for the cause! 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

See the post above ^^^^^

 

I and many others consider the possibility of a no-deal Brexit to be an emergency, one with potentially profound effects on this country and its citizens. So, obviously, do the majority of Parliament. Bercow, in standing up for Parliament, did the correct thing - he gave Parliament the chance to properly scrutinise the Government on the issue.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

He has chosen to stand down because he knows he failed to be impartial. He’s done what he needed to do for the cause! 

 

Now you're talking codswallop. You should have left it where you were. You have *no* idea why he choose to stand down.

[Mikey1874]

What they are debating

 

 

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I and many others consider the possibility of a no-deal Brexit to be an emergency, one with potentially profound effects on this country and its citizens. So, obviously, do the majority of Parliament. Bercow, in standing up for Parliament, did the correct thing - he gave Parliament the chance to properly scrutinise the Government on the issue.

 

Earlier this year Bercow stated that he would ‘fight with every breath in my body’ to stop the government forcing through a no-deal Brexit by proroguing parliament.

 

Speaking at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, he declared that ‘nobody’ should get away with stopping the democratic process.

He said: ‘The one thing I feel strongly about is that the House of Commons must have its way.

‘If there is an attempt to circumvent, to bypass or, God forbid, to close down parliament, that is anathema to me.

‘I will fight with every breath in my body to stop that happening. We cannot have a situation in which parliament is shut down. We are a democratic society and parliament will be heard.’

 

That from an ardent remainer. 

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Ample time however it was blocked at every opportunity by those why there own agendas and even their constituents wishes. 

PS I want A50 revoked. 

 

Yes

 

But MPs from Government parties voted against it.

 

Government had a majority and failed. Their failure alone to deliver Brexit. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Don Dan]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Now you're talking codswallop. You should have left it where you were. You have *no* idea why he choose to stand down.

 

In your opinion. It’s funny how he’s seen the writing on the wall. 

He has done his job for the Remain side. 

I for one am grateful for that.

 

 

[Cade]

Even if May hadn't have thrown away her tiny wee majority of 8 in that disastrous snap election, she still didn't have enough numbers to force her deal through.

Too many foam-at-the-mouth lunatics hell-bent on No Deal in her party.

 

As soon as Article 50 was invoked without a cross-party convention to decide what to actually DO in negotiations, the entire thing was doomed.

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Earlier this year Bercow stated that he would ‘fight with every breath in my body’ to stop the government forcing through a no-deal Brexit by proroguing parliament.

 

Speaking at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, he declared that ‘nobody’ should get away with stopping the democratic process.

He said: ‘The one thing I feel strongly about is that the House of Commons must have its way.

‘If there is an attempt to circumvent, to bypass or, God forbid, to close down parliament, that is anathema to me.

‘I will fight with every breath in my body to stop that happening. We cannot have a situation in which parliament is shut down. We are a democratic society and parliament will be heard.’

 

That from an ardent remainer. 

 

No way are you an "ardent remainer". Do you think we are all stupid?

[Mikey1874]

The technicalities of Bercow being impartial or not are debated widely. You can see different views. 

 

There isn't a fixed position on what should and shouldn't happen. Things develop.

 

But all that has happened is Parliament has been given time to debate things and have votes. I thought that was democracy. 

 

It is rarely mentioned that the Government wanted to agree the Brexit deal on it's own. No Parliament involvement. People went to court to change that. 

 

Again the Government, with a majority failed to pass its Brexit's deal. Nothing to do with the Speaker. 

 

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Cade said:

Even if May hadn't have thrown away her tiny wee majority of 8 in that disastrous snap election, she still didn't have enough numbers to force her deal through.

Too many foam-at-the-mouth lunatics hell-bent on No Deal in her party.

 

As soon as Article 50 was invoked without a cross-party convention to decide what to actually DO in negotiations, the entire thing was doomed.

 

The majority was for what most people thought would happen. A close economic relationship with the EU.

 

It remains a question for Theresa May. How did she think her position would get a majority? 

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Now that Boris has reduced his own minority to -43, the DUP don't matter any more.

 

Rumours are that he's already decided to put the border down the middle of the Irish sea, accept the backstop, ignore the DUP and try to get May's Deal through when Parliament returns.

 

*breaking*

Queen has given assent to the anti-No-Deal bill.

It's now LAW.

 

Where are these rumours? 

[Cade]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

It remains a question for Theresa May. How did she think her position would get a majority? 

Tory arrogance and entitlement

[Don Dan]

15 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

No way are you an "ardent remainer". Do you think we are all stupid?

 

Ill tell your the main reason for me being a Remainer. I (and my wife);own an apartment in Tenerife.  

 

 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Ill tell your the main reason for me being a Remainer. I (and my wife);own an apartment in Tenerife.  

 

 

This must be tough for you - your right-wing principles fighting against your own self-interest. Usually the two go hand-in-hand, so it must have been difficult to choose one over the other. Obviously the self-interest won out.

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This must be tough for you - your right-wing principles fighting against your own self-interest. Usually the two go hand-in-hand, so it must have been difficult to choose one over the other. Obviously the self-interest won out.

 

Indeed. I don’t have right wing principles as such. However I do like fairness, integrity and honesty. Hard work and good financial decisions over many years allows me to enjoy my retirement. Now I’m going to watch the Scotland game with a cold beer and hope beyond the we pump those minnows from Belgium. 🍻 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Dannie Boy
We

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Indeed. I don’t have right wing principles as such. However I do like fairness, integrity and honesty. Hard work and good financial decisions over many years allows me to enjoy my retirement. Now I’m going to watch the Scotland game with a cold beer and hope beyond the we pump those minnows from Belgium. 🍻 

 

Oh bugger, I completely forgot the game was on tonight! Need to get my butt in gear to go and see it. Have a good one anyway. 🍻 

[Don Dan]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Oh bugger, I completely forgot the game was on tonight! Need to get my butt in gear to go and see it. Have a good one anyway. 🍻 

 

No worries. 👍🏻

[Cade]

Grieve motion passes.

Govt ordered to hand over all documentation on no-deal plans and adviser's messages.

[I P Knightley]

6 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

No I am asking how yes voters would feel if having won a referendum there was going to be a second vote that could see it overturned?  They would be absolutely raging.

Just as how Scotland has had previous referenda repeated on independence?

[Victorian]

Peter Bone currently rambling like a drunk.    The wee rat Nigel Evans trying to sound like a hard man.    

[DETTY29]

Hoping this is a parody and not that we do have an ape as PM.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by DETTY29

[AlimOzturk]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hoping this is a parody and not that we do have an ape as PM.

 

 

 

 

 

Wtf is he doing?

 

****ing twat for a PM 

[Cade]

18 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Wtf is he doing?

 

****ing twat for a PM 

Making sure all the attention is on him and not the myth-busting words coming out of Varadkar's mouth.

[Victorian]

Raab

 

It's outrageous to question whether or not we will obey the law.    We will of course obey the law but the question is over HOW we obey the law.

 

Well there you are.    You can see what's coming.     They'll obey the law by dancing around the law and try to twist what the law provides for.

[Don Dan]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Raab

 

It's outrageous to question whether or not we will obey the law.    We will of course obey the law but the question is over HOW we obey the law.

 

Well there you are.    You can see what's coming.     They'll obey the law by dancing around the law and try to twist what the law provides for.

 

That’s what people do with laws. They always try and find ways to beat them.  nothing new going on here.

[Victorian]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

That’s what people do with laws. They always try and find ways to beat them.  nothing new going on here.

 

A very highly learned ex Supreme Court judge has already said that this law is robust and unambiguous,  or similar comment.     But you can see the direction of travel.     They'll twist and turn and will probably force parliament to pursue them through the courts.     Parliament is shut down so there's no scrutiny via that route.     This is getting quite insidious now.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

A very highly learned ex Supreme Court judge has already said that this law is robust and unambiguous,  or similar comment.     But you can see the direction of travel.     They'll twist and turn and will probably force parliament to pursue them through the courts.     Parliament is shut down so there's no scrutiny via that route.     This is getting quite insidious now.

 

They are just electioneering.

 

Think they are best placed to win the election by fighting the 'establishment' to deliver Brexit. 

[DETTY29]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

They are just electioneering.

 

Think they are best placed to win the election by fighting the 'establishment' to deliver Brexit. 

If you are a politician you are part of the establishment.  Irrespective of party.

 

Or a public face of a national broadcaster or a key decision maker within the industry.

 

Or the CEO of a major company.

 

Or an editor, sub editor of most of the media outlets.

 

Or a high ranking union leader.

 

And so on and so on...

 

Edit - grinds my gears about folk that claim to be anti establishment.  Farage and Trump nos 1 and 2.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by DETTY29

[Victorian]

There's also the matter of supposedly lobbying EU member states for a back door arrangement to veto an extension.    Back channel collusion with the EU was previously decried by Brexiteers but now the shoe might be on the other foot.     

[Cade]

How to sum up last few days for Boris Johnson?

5 days in Commons  

5 major defeats

- 21 Tory MPs

0 majority

0 election

0 plan for Brexit

5 weeks of Parliament suspended

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

How to sum up last few days for Boris Johnson?

5 days in Commons  

5 major defeats

- 21 Tory MPs

0 majority

0 election

0 plan for Brexit

5 weeks of Parliament suspended

 

 

Every cloud.

[Cade]

EU set to confirm Ireland's European Commission nominee as the EU's chief trade deal negotiator.

“If the UK fails to prevent a crash-out Brexit they should be under no illusion regarding the foul atmosphere they will create with their EU partners and the serious consequences this will have for negotiating any future trade agreement”

 

[Mikey1874]

Boris Johnson has introduced his motion calling for a general election. 

 

[Justin Z]

[Cade]

Well, that was utter chaos at 2am.

 

The problem Boris has now is that he can't blame Parliament for anything over the next five weeks.

It's all on him.

 

And when they do return, they'll squish anything he's been up to in the meantime.

 

*unless, of course, the courts find against the Government and force Parliament to re-convene

Edited September 10, 2019 by Cade

[ri Alban]

It has to be said. The opposition are just as bad as the Government. Pushing through their demands is the same as pushing through no deal. 

Have a GE. 

 

Fwiw, The SNP should never help any party, they all do nothing but put them down. Tell them all to bolt, they'll romp home in Scotland anyway and then no-one can stop an Indyref2.

Edited September 10, 2019 by ri Alban

[SE16 3LN]

On 06/09/2019 at 12:57, kingantti1874 said:

not sure what else I could call people who “genuinely” believed the 350 million per week lie, the hundreds of trade deals reads to go lie. My description is tame. 

Most of them don't believe it though.

[Mikey1874]

When the SNP arrived in big numbers one of the things they got told off for in Parliament was clapping. 

 

Now seems a pretty standard thing. So well done for changing things. 

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It has to be said. The opposition are just as bad as the Government. Pushing through their demands is the same as pushing through no deal. 

Have a GE. 

 

Fwiw, The SNP should never help any party, they all do nothing but put them down. Tell them all to bolt, they'll romp home in Scotland anyway and then no-one can stop an Indyref2.

 

Wrong.    Allowing an election now would play into the hands of the Tories who could still frustrate the will of parliament by running down the clock to no deal.   Causing no deal will allow the Tories to avoid going head to head with the Brexit Party in an election,   meaning the most likely outcome is a continuation of the Tories being the biggest party.     The best chance of getting shot of the Tories is to leave the outcome of Brexit open when the election comes.    Brexit Party contests every seat in England and Wales and deprives the Tories of enough vote share to enable Labour to be the largest party.

 

Election now means years more Tory cuts to services + tax cuts for the long suffering well off + gross mismanagement of the process to negotiate future trade with the EU + god only knows what in the way of detrimental trade deals with 3rd party countries.     

 

Nah... no election until it means the Tories can be ousted.

[Mikey1874]

Theresa May has finally at last achieved something.

 

Arise Sir Geoffrey. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Theresa May has finally at last achieved something.

 

Arise Sir Geoffrey. 

A f*****g joke.

[Mikey1874]

Harriet Harman is running for Speaker. 

 

Must have a decent chance. Been longest female MP, nearly 40 years since 1982.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Mikey1874