Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[JyTees]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You are indeed!

 

I knew you'd be along. The very epitomy of a mad Nat. You think Blackford covered himself in glory there? Were you proud of his performance in front of the nation?

 

Don't answer that by the way. Rhetorical. 

 

Mad cult indeed.

[JackLadd]

4 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

They might actually try though. 

 

 

They basically want to stay in the eu without any representation in Brussels. That's the Jezzbollah position. 

[JyTees]

8 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Sorry, can’t take anyone who comes out with stuff like jezbollah or nippy or krankie seriously. 

 

It’s infantile. 

 

He's earned his nickname on more than one occasion.

[annushorribilis III]

50 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Why do these Europhiles think extending article 50 means anything? If they are that certain the public want to stay in the eu ad infinitum then call the election.

If Leave is that certain, settle it once and for all : second referendum and implement it and if that means crash out (I write as a remainer, not a Europhile) I'll go along with it.  Bearing in mind "Leave " said we'd get a deal, we wouldn't leave without a deal, we wouldn't  trigger Article 50 until a deal was done, the negotiations could take years to settle (they weren't wrong there !) .  They were quite specific about all of this during the campaign and it's fair to say they won on that basis. 

 

For some reason i can't quite put my finger on , the idea of a second referendum  is treated as some kind of heresy.  

 

 

 

 

 

[JyTees]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

If Leave is that certain, settle it once and for all : second referendum and implement it and if that means crash out (I write as a remainer, not a Europhile) I'll go along with it.  Bearing in mind "Leave " said we'd get a deal, we wouldn't leave without a deal, we wouldn't  trigger Article 50 until a deal was done, the negotiations could take years to settle (they weren't wrong there !) .  They were quite specific about all of this during the campaign and it's fair to say they won on that basis. 

 

For some reason i can't quite put my finger on , the idea of a second referendum  is treated as some kind of heresy.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a novel idea. Let's implement the vote of the first referendum.

[annushorribilis III]

2 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Here's a novel idea. Let's implement the vote of the first referendum.

Nice soundbite. Want to debate my post ?  

Edited September 5, 2019 by annushorribilis III

[JackLadd]

22 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Sorry, can’t take anyone who comes out with stuff like jezbollah or nippy or krankie seriously. 

 

It’s infantile. 

 

Baby snowflake. 

[JackLadd]

9 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

If Leave is that certain, settle it once and for all : second referendum and implement it and if that means crash out (I write as a remainer, not a Europhile) I'll go along with it.  Bearing in mind "Leave " said we'd get a deal, we wouldn't leave without a deal, we wouldn't  trigger Article 50 until a deal was done, the negotiations could take years to settle (they weren't wrong there !) .  They were quite specific about all of this during the campaign and it's fair to say they won on that basis. 

 

For some reason i can't quite put my finger on , the idea of a second referendum  is treated as some kind of heresy.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, May did get a deal and tried four times to get the alleged pro referendum result Labour party to agree to it. Instead they played politics and became a shifting sand of backsliding that is now essentially remain without representation. The backstop arrangement was necessary, but Labour aligned themselves with the DUP and no deal Tories. A snap election is in effect another referendum and could provide the solution.  

[JyTees]

28 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Nice soundbite. Want to debate my post ?  

 

I thought I just did that 🤔

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

6 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

Here's a novel idea. Let's implement the vote of the first referendum.

Aye. Scotland and Northern Ireland remain. 

[AlimOzturk]

6 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

Well, May did get a deal and tried four times to get the alleged pro referendum result Labour party to agree to it. Instead they played politics and became a shifting sand of backsliding that is now essentially remain without representation. The backstop arrangement was necessary, but Labour aligned themselves with the DUP and no deal Tories. A snap election is in effect another referendum and could provide the solution.  

 

Well if a general election is in fact a another referendum...why not just call another referendum? 

 

They can't get an election so if they are so sure about the nations will then go back to the people and have another vote!

 

If Jeremy Corbyn wants the keys to number 10 then he should finally back another referendum.

Edited September 6, 2019 by AlimOzturk

[kingantti1874]

8 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Why do these Europhiles think extending article 50 means anything? If they are that certain the public want to stay in the eu ad infinitum then call the election.

why would you call a GE likely to strengthen Tory hands becuase of first past the post.. do you think a Tory majority means a majority are for a no deal brexit
 

why not call a referrendum 1. LEAVE NO DEAL. 2. Remain.. 

 

everyone in the Uk knows this was not the question asked the last time - millions voted becuase they were dumb enough to believe they’d be wealthier, not just “survive” it😆

 

I’ll tell you why you will find no brexshitter brave enough to ask that question, becuase it would get ****ing smashed out of sight 

[The Mighty Thor]

I caught up on baw jaws 'speech' in Wakefield. 

 

He was rambling at best and incoherent at worst. He looks dishevelled, well more do than the persona he imparts, and like he was coming down off a huge eccy bender. 

The pressure of the job and the scrutiny that goes with it is starting to get to him and he's not even a full week into the proper job. He's got away with lying glibly for years but in the top job he's got microphones in every orifice and people queueing up to call him out for telling porkies. 

 

He's never going to last.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

why would you call a GE likely to strengthen Tory hands becuase of first past the post.. do you think a Tory majority means a majority are for a no deal brexit
 

why not call a referrendum 1. LEAVE NO DEAL. 2. Remain.. 

 

everyone in the Uk knows this was not the question asked the last time - millions voted becuase they were dumb enough to believe they’d be wealthier, not just “survive” it😆

 

I’ll tell you why you will find no brexshitter brave enough to ask that question, becuase it would get ****ing smashed out of sight 

This.

 

Its the same reason that the debate has shifted from deal to no deal.

 

Proposing a deal means putting stuff down on paper and having it scrutinised. They won't do it because they have no plan. 

No deal is easy. No deal, no plan, no scrutiny. Wing it from November 1st.

[Cade]

As Leo Varadkar (again) pointed out last night, even if the UK does leave with no deal, we'd have to come to A DEAL at soome point in the immediate future.

This means that the rights of EU nationals, the Irish border and every other stumbling block is simply going to re-appear during those negotiations!

No deal solves nothing and will only serve to destroy the economy for however long it takes for the Brexit fanatics to drop their insane red lines and come to a proper deal with the EU.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

As Leo Varadkar (again) pointed out last night, even if the UK does leave with no deal, we'd have to come to A DEAL at soome point in the immediate future.

This means that the rights of EU nationals, the Irish border and every other stumbling block is simply going to re-appear during those negotiations!

No deal solves nothing and will only serve to destroy the economy for however long it takes for the Brexit fanatics to drop their insane red lines and come to a proper deal with the EU.

 

Correct.     Even the current day tug-o-war to drag everyone out with no deal is being conducted on a wholly dishonest premise.     People are swallowing it too.     Hook,  line and sinker.

 

No deal solves nothing.     The only thing it achieves is a bogus veneer of a political statement of fact.     That Brexit has been 'delivered'.     The things that matter beneath the surface will remain unsolved.     What really matters is an orderly transition period... but people are determined to throw it away.

[XB52]

Any Scot that truly believes we are better of being governed???? by this shower of incompetents, rather than being independent, well words fail me. 

[Mikey1874]

10 hours ago, JyTees said:

Labour's Brexit policy. Negotiate a deal with Brussels that nobody else has managed to do, then campaign to remain.

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Thornberry thinks the EU are going to give her and Jezzbollah everything they want in a leave deal. Amazing.

 

This is a fair point.

 

The difference is that Labour and the EU are much closer in what they want. It is not incredible that Labour could get a deal. Labour has been having separate talks with the EU all through the process. So EU knows the Labour position. 

 

And bear in mind that deal is only May's deal and changing the wording of the political declaration. Not some massive renegotiation starting from scratch. The main negotiation happens after we leave. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Don Dan]

Challenge to UK PM Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament rejected, London's High Court says

[SE16 3LN]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

why would you call a GE likely to strengthen Tory hands becuase of first past the post.. do you think a Tory majority means a majority are for a no deal brexit
 

why not call a referrendum 1. LEAVE NO DEAL. 2. Remain.. 

 

everyone in the Uk knows this was not the question asked the last time - millions voted becuase they were dumb enough to believe they’d be wealthier, not just “survive” it😆

 

I’ll tell you why you will find no brexshitter brave enough to ask that question, becuase it would get ****ing smashed out of sight 

After 260 pages this has to be the most inaccurate and juvenile pile of shite yet posted. Well done, there were a lot of contenders.

[AlimOzturk]

They can suspend parliament all they want. This will just go further to make parliament dig their heels in. 

 

Utterly stupid decision.

[kingantti1874]

29 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

After 260 pages this has to be the most inaccurate and juvenile pile of shite yet posted. Well done, there were a lot of contenders.

It’s bang on the money, I’m not going to waste my time dragging up leave campaign promises, which the weak of mind bought into, we know were a lie! you know them as well as I do. Even now the lying continues.. it’s disgusting!

 

must be the only referrendum in history where we’ve been trying to define the answer after the question was asked. 

[SE16 3LN]

10 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s bang on the money, I’m not going to waste my time dragging up leave campaign promises, which the weak of mind bought into, we know were a lie! you know them as well as I do. Even now the lying continues.. it’s disgusting!

 

must be the only referrendum in history where we’ve been trying to define the answer after the question was asked. 

😂 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

They basically want to stay in the eu without any representation in Brussels. That's the Jezzbollah position. 

 The Jezzbollah reference has run its course. Pathetic . purile and immature. If your trying to make sensible politics arguments at least keep the childish name calling out of it. Making a right %%% of yourself really

[annushorribilis III]

11 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

I thought I just did that 🤔

Oh, look, another sound bite dressed up as debate. 

[annushorribilis III]

11 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

Well, May did get a deal and tried four times to get the alleged pro referendum result Labour party to agree to it. Instead they played politics and became a shifting sand of backsliding that is now essentially remain without representation. The backstop arrangement was necessary, but Labour aligned themselves with the DUP and no deal Tories. A snap election is in effect another referendum and could provide the solution.  

So, the question now should be, what is the deal that will satisfy the hard core of the Tory party  and the EU ? IS a deal really negotiable/achievable ? If it isn't, revoke and go set up a cross party committee to agree a policy/goals  for negotiations.  It is ludicrous that we face 3 GEs in 3 years , a third PM in three years  and the prospect crashing the economy  as a result of no deal (it's just  a question of how bad it is going to be).  It is totally unacceptable to BJ to say he will not go back  to Brussels and negotiate - he/Gove/Rees Mogg  led a Leave campaign that said we'd leave with a deal and he needs to be held to that. It is utter insanity that Leave made the promises they did and now want to pretend it didn't happen and simply crash out with the chaos and the hardship that will cause. I don't agree a snap election will solve anything - we had a GE  two years ago , the people spoke then, let the Tories get on with it and sort out their mess. 

 

PS I am not a fan of Labour or Corbyn. 

 

 

[annushorribilis III]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Well if a general election is in fact a another referendum...why not just call another referendum? 

 

They can't get an election so if they are so sure about the nations will then go back to the people and have another vote!

 

If Jeremy Corbyn wants the keys to number 10 then he should finally back another referendum.

Totally agree. Electing more MPs for the same chaos ?  A second referendum : to leave under Mays deal/no deal/ remain. 

 

Simple and unequivocal. 

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s bang on the money, I’m not going to waste my time dragging up leave campaign promises, which the weak of mind bought into, we know were a lie! you know them as well as I do. Even now the lying continues.. it’s disgusting!

 

must be the only referrendum in history where we’ve been trying to define the answer after the question was asked. 

 

Never mind defining the answer... 3 and a half years on and the Brexit fascists are still trying to re-define the question.

 

The leave campaign was conducted on a clear ticket of achieving a deal and an orderly exit.    We're now being told that everyone voted on the basis of no deal being the implied question.

 

It's wrong.    It's dishonest.    It's yet another lie.

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

😂

 

Stings, doesn't it? But some self awareness would do you a world of good. Try it, get back to us.

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

😂

not sure what else I could call people who “genuinely” believed the 350 million per week lie, the hundreds of trade deals reads to go lie. My description is tame. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by kingantti1874

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

not sure what else I could call people who “genuinely” believed the 350pw lie, the hundreds of trade deals reads to go lie. I think your upset becuase it applies to you

 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

not sure what else I could call people who “genuinely” believed the 350 million per week lie, the hundreds of trade deals reads to go lie. My description is tame. 

They still believe it. In fact they believe it more rabidly than ever. There's a huge number who think Boris is a great guy doing a great job. 

Its mesmeric. 

[DarthVodka]

23 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Totally agree. Electing more MPs for the same chaos ?  A second referendum : to leave under Mays deal/no deal/ remain. 

 

Simple and unequivocal. 

 

This is the only way around this impasse I feel and there should be no campaigning or meddling by politicians during this, there should be an guide created by some independent group from political parties stating the facts and likely outcomes (I'm not sure that is even possible).

 

After that result and result delivered then a GE to determine who leads the country after.  A GE before or at same time as a referendum would lead to alot of daft votes being cast.  i.e. votes for Brexit party not realising Farage would have a say in running things after Brexit

 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

They still believe it. In fact they believe it more rabidly than ever. There's a huge number who think Boris is a great guy doing a great job. 

Its mesmeric. 

 

Yep.    When asked why they like him,   you invariably see some kind of ill conceived mumble about him being 'our Donald Trump... lol' or 'well... he's just getting on with it,  innit'.

 

It's true though.     Johnson and his hard right cabinet still has significant support.    Even from people who are obviously not well off and near the front of the queue to feel the effects of a no deal Brexit.     

[DarthVodka]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

They still believe it. In fact they believe it more rabidly than ever. There's a huge number who think Boris is a great guy doing a great job. 

Its mesmeric. 

 

Its unbelievable but how do you stop that kind of bullsh1t being stated in the future?  Even if Political groups were somehow asked to provide evidence before they could publicly say it, it would easily be spread by social media manipulation.

 

My gran got a phone call during the indyref from some 'No' group saying her pension would instantly stop upon Scotland becoming dependent.  She doesn't know enough to know that is rubbish.  

[CJGJ]

We should have a 2 year trial separation just like many a real divorce

 

Then lets see the true benefits or otherwise of a wdwl

[RobboM]

I remember watching Newsnight back in December with what deteriorated into a shouting match between Alistair Campbell and a (remainer) woman. Her point struck me as really important. Remain arguments and Brexit arguments are simply not discussing the same issues. Remainers are pointing to the economic chaos and saying it's self evident madness. Brexiteers don't care about that and care about taking back control, migration and sovereignty. We are simply talking over each other which is why it has been a frustrating, unsatisfactory and self-confirmatory argument throughout.

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 minutes ago, DarthVodka said:

 

Its unbelievable but how do you stop that kind of bullsh1t being stated in the future?  Even if Political groups were somehow asked to provide evidence before they could publicly say it, it would easily be spread by social media manipulation.

 

My gran got a phone call during the indyref from some 'No' group saying her pension would instantly stop upon Scotland becoming dependent.  She doesn't know enough to know that is rubbish.  

There was certainly a lot of scaremongering. 

[Francis Albert]

The vagueness or simplicity of the question was deliberate and left the Government and ultimately MPs to define "Leave". The government and the EU negotiated a transition agreement which as Vardakar points out is only the precursor to the real negotiation on the future relationship with the EU. That was rejected and since then and indeed for 39 months the 80% of MPs who voted to hold the referendum and the 348 majority for invoking Article 50 have failed to agree ANY  definition of Leave. The closeness of the referendum vote clearly indicated a need for compromises. But the hard liners on the Remain and Brexit side have each refused to agree to any compromise. But the real guilty parties are the majority of MPs who are not fanatics but have put narrow party and personal ambitions ahead of agreeing SOME form of Leave despite being given a virtual carte blanche to do so.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

24 minutes ago, RobboM said:

I remember watching Newsnight back in December with what deteriorated into a shouting match between Alistair Campbell and a (remainer) woman. Her point struck me as really important. Remain arguments and Brexit arguments are simply not discussing the same issues. Remainers are pointing to the economic chaos and saying it's self evident madness. Brexiteers don't care about that and care about taking back control, migration and sovereignty. We are simply talking over each other which is why it has been a frustrating, unsatisfactory and self-confirmatory argument throughout.

And yet, now parliament is taking back control the brexiteers are still whining. They're either racists, stupid, or both. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

And yet, no parliament is taking back control the brexiteers are still whining. Their either racists, stupid, or both. 

Are you saying the 17.4m who voted Leave are racist or stupid or both?

 

[I P Knightley]

49 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

They still believe it. In fact they believe it more rabidly than ever. There's a huge number who think Boris is a great guy doing a great job. 

Its mesmeric. 

I heard a quote along the lines of, "it's a lot easier to fool people than it is to convince those people that they've been fooled."

Are they more rabid because they're ashamed to admit that they were fooled?

[RobboM]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The vagueness or simplicity of the question was deliberate and left the Government and ultimately MPs to define "Leave". The government and the EU negotiated a transition agreement which as Vardakar points out is only the precursor to the real negotiation on the future relationship with the EU. That was rejected and since then and indeed for 39 months the 80% of MPs who voted to hold the referendum and the 348 majority for invoking Article 50 have failed to agree ANY  definition of Leave. The closeness of the referendum vote clearly indicated a need for compromises. But the hard liners on the Remain and Brexit side have each refused to agree to any compromise. But the real guilty parties are the majority of MPs who are not fanatics but have put narrow party and personal ambitions ahead of agreeing SOME form of Leave despite being given a virtual carte blanche to do so.

 

 

 

I'd disagree with you on this point Francis. I think it is down to the narrow, party political approach adopted by Theresa May and her government that they prioritised the unity of the Conservative Party over a deal which achieved (sufficient) unity across the House.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Are you saying the 17.4m who voted Leave are racist or stupid or both?

 

I take it you can read? 

[Cade]

"Boris, how to plan to get a New Deal during the upcoming summit when the EU have refused to even talk about re-opening negotiations?"

 

"With the power of persuasion"

 

 

[Francis Albert]

30 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I take it you can read? 

I take it that's a yes.

Thanks. Tells me what I need to know about the value of your opinions.

[Notts1874]

31 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I take it you can read? 

Just a little reminder that FA couldn't even be bothered to vote.

[Francis Albert]

32 minutes ago, RobboM said:

I'd disagree with you on this point Francis. I think it is down to the narrow, party political approach adopted by Theresa May and her government that they prioritised the unity of the Conservative Party over a deal which achieved (sufficient) unity across the House.

Fair point and certainly a big factor. Not entirely inconsistent with my point though, and applied to at least two other party leaders too.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

Just a little reminder that FA couldn't even be bothered to vote.

I think you know that's not true. 

But not really much of a contribution even if it were true is it?

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

I think you know that's not true. 

But not really much of a contribution even if it were true is it?

You didnt vote. You have already admitted this previously.Couldn't even be bothered doing a postal vote.