Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Class of 75]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

What happened at the last election was the supposedly 'unelectable, extreme' Corbyn united the British left in a way nobody else had done in my lifetime. And it was just the start too.

I thought a man of your intellect would be put off by someone like Comrade Corbyn. You do realise he hates the EU? He also didn't do as well as you think. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Class of 75

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

But are these not Remainers who voted Remain originally? They do not speak for over 17 million who voted to Leave. This is exactly what the EU wanted from the beginning, hoping that the British Parliament stumbles from one argument to another frustrating the result of the referendum.  They will be rubbing their hands at this, they have done similar in the past. 

Maybe not the EU?

 

Possibly Russia, who would like nothing better than disintegration of the EU.

 

Whatever the outcome of Brexit, there's a hole beneath the waterline for the EU and Putin and Trump will just love that.

[Class of 75]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

Maybe not the EU?

 

Possibly Russia, who would like nothing better than disintegration of the EU.

 

Whatever the outcome of Brexit, there's a hole beneath the waterline for the EU and Putin and Trump will just love that.

Possibly, Russia has trouble telling the difference between EU and Nato. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

Hi Shaun.

 

Hadn't realised you'd dropped the LibDem torch.

 

If Corbyn's "all that", how come nobody (or very few people) knows what his position is on Brexit?

 

1. Dropped the Lib Dem torch in 2011. That's heading on for a decade ago. I know how much you like spreading fake news about me - you were doing it on another thread a few weeks back too: quite the charming little back-stabber, you are - but do keep up.

 

2. See my post above. If you don't know what his position is on Brexit, that's because the media doesn't tell you, and you're spectacularly ill-informed (as point 1 also highlights). 

 

To help you, here's the relevant section from my post above. 

 

Labour's policy has remained entirely consistent since its 2017 manifesto proposing a soft, jobs first Brexit. At its Party Conference last year, it then agreed to do the following:

 

a) Vote down May's deal

 

b) Seek a general election

 

c) If a general election could not be achieved, leave all options on the table. All options. Which remains the case now. 

 

If you couldn't even be bothered to read Labour's manifesto or the Party Conference motion, that's kinda up to you. If you don't even know that Labour's Brexit plan has been praised by the EU as a very good compromise which would work, that's kinda up to you as well. Goodness knows, you have that in common with millions of others.

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

He lost! He did not win! How much more simply can I explain it?

 

Any opposition worthy of the name would have a huge lead over a troubled divided shambles of a government like this one. 

 

And they don't have any lead such is their ineptness.

 

Nope. It's because 40% of the country are for Brexit in any circumstances.

 

Hope this helps.

[I P Knightley]

7 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

Almost all polls now are based on leading questions and designed to achieve a particular outcome. We even have a polling firm whose head doubles as someone on Chuka Umunna's think tank; and other polling firms which sold data to Nigel Farage so he could short the markets on referendum night.

'Zat so?

 

Hadn't heard that one before.

 

I'm happy to believe it.

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, I P Knightley said:

'Zat so?

 

Hadn't heard that one before.

 

I'm happy to believe it.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-25/brexit-big-short-how-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Nope. It's because 40% of the country are for Brexit in any circumstances.

 

Hope this helps.

No it isn't. It's because Corbyn has taken his party too far left to appeal to the middle ground, which must be won over to win an election as Neil Kinnock will tell you.

He's also a snivelling spineless wimp, who couldn't run a bath.

[AlphonseCapone]

18 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

The polls were:

 

Completely wrong in 2015.

Completely wrong in 2016.

Completely wrong in 2017.

 

And what do you do? You still go by the polls. Amazing.

 

Almost all polls now are based on leading questions and designed to achieve a particular outcome. We even have a polling firm whose head doubles as someone on Chuka Umunna's think tank; and other polling firms which sold data to Nigel Farage so he could short the markets on referendum night.

 

The British polling industry is all part of the same corrupt beyond belief British political class and British media. And by the way: it's so corrupt that when Labour are ahead in a poll (as they always are with Survation, the only pollster to get both 2015 and 2017 right), it's... er.... not reported.

 

Weren't you quoting the last election results as a Labour success when the Tories called for a general election when they were 20 points ahead, based on.... Polls? At least be consistent. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by AlphonseCapone

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, SwindonJambo said:

No it isn't. It's because Corbyn has taken his party too far left to appeal to the middle ground, which must be won over to win an election as Neil Kinnock will tell you.

He's also a snivelling spineless wimp, who couldn't run a bath.

 

There is no 'middle ground' any longer. That's why a party pledging to overturn Brexit received... 7% of the vote. And the reason there's no middle ground any longer is because when capital cannot be accessed by extraordinary numbers of people, capitalism itself fails. 

 

I have no idea why you still think it's the 1990s. If you're seriously that oblivious about the reality of life for horrendous numbers of people, that's your look-out. But that reality is worsening all the time - and the status quo does not work and has no ideas for the future. None.

 

A future, by the way, in which automation is going to remove massive numbers of working and middle class jobs. A future which will therefore demand Universal Basic Income, unless we want total economic and social collapse. A future in which we have 11 years to stop irreversible climate change: demanding massive changes in how we all live. A future in which a whole generation will reach retirement age without any assets. A future in which we're going to run out of the ability to afford pensions by 2035, unless we radically change course.

 

If that's all just completely over your head, fine. The point is: it's certainly not over the head of ever-increasing numbers, for whom 'centrists' and 'moderates' have no answers and no clue.

[I P Knightley]

12 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

2. See my post above. If you don't know what his position is on Brexit, that's because the media doesn't tell you, and you're spectacularly ill-informed (as point 1 also highlights).

So I'm a rather casual observer in all this - not active politically - and I know more about what Tony Blair thinks about this than I do about Corbyn's stance. Doesn't that say something about how ineefective Corby and his machine have been? Or is it my fault for being like most of the electorate and having too busy a work and family life to search in on all the details?

 

Thanks for the link on Farage - dirty little, calculating, self-serving piece of work. 

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

There is no 'middle ground' any longer. That's why a party pledging to overturn Brexit received... 7% of the vote. And the reason there's no middle ground any longer is because when capital cannot be accessed by extraordinary numbers of people, capitalism itself fails. 

 

I have no idea why you still think it's the 1990s. If you're seriously that oblivious about the reality of life for horrendous numbers of people, that's your look-out. But that reality is worsening all the time - and the status quo does not work and has no ideas for the future. None.

 

A future, by the way, in which automation is going to remove massive numbers of working and middle class jobs. A future which will therefore demand Universal Basic Income, unless we want total economic and social collapse. A future in which we have 11 years to stop irreversible climate change: demanding massive changes in how we all live. A future in which a whole generation will reach retirement age without any assets. A future in which we're going to run out of the ability to afford pensions by 2035, unless we radically change course.

 

If that's all just completely over your head, fine. The point is: it's certainly not over the head of ever-increasing numbers, for whom 'centrists' and 'moderates' have no answers and no clue.

 

I agree that all of these are serious problems that need to be addressed. I just don't believe Citizen Corbyn is the man to fix them.

 

And please keep you patronising stuff about all that being over my head. It really isn't. I work full time ( yes I know an unusual concept) for an impoverished local authority with huge pressures on its Social Services Budgets.

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

So I'm a rather casual observer in all this - not active politically - and I know more about what Tony Blair thinks about this than I do about Corbyn's stance. Doesn't that say something about how ineefective Corby and his machine have been? Or is it my fault for being like most of the electorate and having too busy a work and family life to search in on all the details?

 

Thanks for the link on Farage - dirty little, calculating, self-serving piece of work. 

 

No, what it says is that we have the worst, most biased media in the Western world. 

 

Rupert Murdoch took over The Times and Sunday Times in 1981. Since then, he has never been on the losing side of any election or referendum in Britain. Never. Also since then, the media:

 

- Ridiculed Michael Foot

 

- Ridiculed Neil Kinnock

 

- Didn't have enough time to ridicule John Smith before he tragically passed away

 

- Loved Tony Blair, because he kissed Murdoch's behind

 

- Ridiculed Gordon Brown: without whose presence, God only knows what would've happened in 2008

 

- Ridiculed Ed Miliband. You know what? One of the reasons the UK is in this mess now is because the British public think that how someone looks while eating a bacon sandwich is what matters. What kind of joke country is this?!

 

- Ridiculed and abused Jeremy Corbyn.

 

We don't have a media which holds truth to power or holds the government to account. We have a media which is in it for itself; and which has completely merged with the political class over the last 20 years or so. So instead of challenging government lies, it parrots them. Over and over and over again.

 

"Labour crashed the economy". "Labour ran out of money". "We have to live within our means". "Welfare is a lifestyle choice". "Strivers, not scroungers". "Swarming with migrants". "Let's take back control". "No Deal is better than a bad deal". "Citizens of nowhere". "Enemies of the people". 

 

It's just gone on, and on, and on. And the reason it's gone on, and on, and on, is because quite astonishing numbers of people are automatically deferential to authority and swallow this nonsense. Which, by the way, kills. It kills massive numbers.

[shaun.lawson]

19 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I agree that all of these are serious problems that need to be addressed. I just don't believe Citizen Corbyn is the man to fix them.

 

And please keep you patronising stuff about all that being over my head. It really isn't. I work full time ( yes I know an unusual concept) for an impoverished local authority with huge pressures on its Social Services Budgets.

 

So you agree there are massive problems - good. Yet massive problems can't be fixed by piecemeal, watered down solutions. They can only be solved by radical solutions.

[Class of 75]

28 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

No, what it says is that we have the worst, most biased media in the Western world. 

 

Rupert Murdoch took over The Times and Sunday Times in 1981. Since then, he has never been on the losing side of any election or referendum in Britain. Never. Also since then, the media:

 

- Ridiculed Michael Foot

 

- Ridiculed Neil Kinnock

 

- Didn't have enough time to ridicule John Smith before he tragically passed away

 

- Loved Tony Blair, because he kissed Murdoch's behind

 

- Ridiculed Gordon Brown: without whose presence, God only knows what would've happened in 2008

 

- Ridiculed Ed Miliband. You know what? One of the reasons the UK is in this mess now is because the British public think that how someone looks while eating a bacon sandwich is what matters. What kind of joke country is this?!

 

- Ridiculed and abused Jeremy Corbyn.

 

We don't have a media which holds truth to power or holds the government to account. We have a media which is in it for itself; and which has completely merged with the political class over the last 20 years or so. So instead of challenging government lies, it parrots them. Over and over and over again.

 

"Labour crashed the economy". "Labour ran out of money". "We have to live within our means". "Welfare is a lifestyle choice". "Strivers, not scroungers". "Swarming with migrants". "Let's take back control". "No Deal is better than a bad deal". "Citizens of nowhere". "Enemies of the people". 

 

It's just gone on, and on, and on. And the reason it's gone on, and on, and on, is because quite astonishing numbers of people are automatically deferential to authority and swallow this nonsense. Which, by the way, kills. It kills massive numbers.

Ridiculed because it was the truth. Did the public a service. 

[SwindonJambo]

34 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

So you agree there are massive problems - good. Yet massive problems can't be fixed by piecemeal, watered down solutions. They can only be solved by radical solutions.

You're right. But I really don't believe Corbyn had those solutions and even if he did, he lacks the backbone to implement them.

[Cruyff Turn]

Labour won’t win the next general election. The most recent polls show that if anything, the Tories will annihilate them further. Which shows how utterly inept Corbyn is. 

[Cruyff Turn]

35 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Ridiculed because it was the truth. Did the public a service. 

The SNP in Scotland have every newspaper and every TV station in the UK against them, yet have still been voted in at both Holyrood and the General Election for years, so I’m not sure that the media is to blame for Labour being useless. 

[shaun.lawson]

4 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Ridiculed because it was the truth. Did the public a service. 

 

Oh right. In your world, "doing the public a service" involves:

 

- Each generation being poorer than the previous one

- It being next to impossible to get on the housing ladder

- Wages being lower than in 2008

- A decade long public sector pay freeze

- Homelessness up almost 140% since 2010

- Child poverty set to hit 37% by 2022

- The national debt having tripled since 2010

- Austerity having killed at least 120,000 people

- The slowest recovery since the South Sea Bubble

- Disabled people and chronically ill people dying because of being denied benefits

- Rickets having returned to some parts of the UK

- Ever more foodbanks: they're even opening in schools

- Starving schoolkids with no proper shoes

- The government being condemned for its treatment of the poor and disabled by UN

- Massive cuts to the police, leading to a huge rise in violent crime and knife crime

- Massive cuts to the fire services, which helped cause Grenfell

- The devastation of legal aid, which also helped cause Grenfell

- Massive cuts to community outreach, making it harder to stop terrorism

- NHS waiting lists rising, and the whole service being imperilled by the Tories

- The government turning the UK into a global laughing stock

- The government descending into internal civil war instead of implementing Brexit

- The UK profiting from the slaughter of Yemeni kids and contributing substantially to the worst humanitarian crisis on Earth

- The UK deporting Afghan kids to their deaths

- The UK deporting Nigerian kids into sex slavery

- The UK doing nothing about climate change: which will become irreversible without radical changes by 2030

 

In your world, "doing the public a service" presumably also involves this:

 

 

And this:

 

 

Thank God for the press "doing the public a service". Where would we be without them? We've never had it so good.

Edited March 24, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The most recent polls 

 

   

 

Another one who's clearly learned nothing whatsoever. 

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

You're right. But I really don't believe Corbyn had those solutions and even if he did, he lacks the backbone to implement them.

 

In all of my life, I have never seen someone so continually abused, insulted, and blamed for the world and its wife as he's been. By literally everyone under the sun.

 

He's now about to see off his second Tory opponent. And you think he 'lacks backbone'?!?!?!?!

[The Mighty Thor]

9 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Lots and lots and lots of words.

So to summarise;

 

Vote down May's deal.

 

Force a GE

 

He'll be lucky to control his own party enough to achieve the first and if somehow the Tories implode and there's a GE, he'll lose it. Handsomely.

In fact you could hold a GE every week until I die. He'd lose every last one of them. 

 

Other than questionable views on certain religions it's rather hard to put a finger on what this enigma actually does stand for.

[Costanza]

9 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

You might be interested in this too. With the sole exception of what he imagined would happen in Scotland, Mystic Clegg Knew.

 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/

That's quite profound from Clegg.

Pity he wasn't that profound when he went into coalition with the Tories!

Now he works for Facebook he has a lot more information to inform his opinion as well..

[shaun.lawson]

49 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So to summarise;

 

Vote down May's deal.

 

Force a GE

 

He'll be lucky to control his own party enough to achieve the first and if somehow the Tories implode and there's a GE, he'll lose it. Handsomely.

In fact you could hold a GE every week until I die. He'd lose every last one of them. 

 

Other than questionable views on certain religions it's rather hard to put a finger on what this enigma actually does stand for.

 

1. May's deal's already been voted down. Twice. It's because it's gonna get voted down a third time if it's voted on that she's toast. Your comment in that regard is so myopic, it's unbelievable. 

 

2. Nope. And a heck of a hostage to fortune from you, the man who claimed "Cameron is finished!" a few days into the 2010 coalition negotiations. So 'finished' was he, he lasted another 6 years as PM.

 

3. What does he stand for? I agree, it's so so difficult to pin it down. It's not like he's remained consistent in his beliefs and values for well over 30 years, is it? 

 

- While he protested against apartheid, Thatcher supported it

 

- While he protested against Pinochet, Thatcher supported him

 

- While he protested against the Iraq War, we bombed the smithereens out of the place

 

- While he protested against the Libyan intervention, we bombed the smithereens out of there too

 

- While he's stood against arms sales to Saudi Arabia, we've profited from the deaths of countless innocents in Yemen and elsewhere

 

- While he stood against austerity, much of the rest of his party supported it, and 120,000 people (and counting) died

 

- While he opposed the 2014 Immigration Bill, most of the rest of Parliament waved it through... directly resulting in Windrush.

 

- While he comforted and grieved with the Grenfell families, May was nowhere to be seen

 

- The opposition he leads has inflicted more defeats on the government than any opposition to Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron combined. 

 

- And he took over a party which was practically bankrupt, reinvigorated it, gave it its soul back, increased its membership by half a million and its vote by 3.5m: all at a time social democratic parties have collapsed across Europe.

 

You're a cynic, Thor. I get why: there isn't much in British politics to be happy about, and there hasn't been for very many years. We haven't even had a good PM since Harold Wilson, frankly. But your cynicism means you never have any practical solutions. You basically throw constant opprobrium at pretty much everything. I find it quite sad, to be honest. 

 

Not only that... but I daresay, in your own way, you've been brainwashed too. In the words of Noam Chomsky:

 

"One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually pro-racist and antisemitic". 

 

Because you see: Corbyn doesn't have "questionable views on certain religions". You, like the media, literally just made that up. By contrast, in the Conservative Party, Islamophobia is rampant. But heck: I even think it's rampant on this forum, and few people say a single word about it.

[Class of 75]

7 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The SNP in Scotland have every newspaper and every TV station in the UK against them, yet have still been voted in at both Holyrood and the General Election for years, so I’m not sure that the media is to blame for Labour being useless. 

They are now a minority government and thankfully in reverse. 

[Costanza]

16 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

No need to worry about brexit it appears it will be stopped. Jezza ****ed as well.

 

https://apple.news/AHk24Gc4rQ9qITgwepTY7rw

 

It does look like Mays days are numbered, which will be good thing for everyone.

If the coup rumours are true, maybe I was wrong to dismiss him.

I'm also regretting stockpiling spoons.

[ri Alban]

47 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

They are now a minority government and thankfully in reverse. 

Dream on. So you're a non union, unionist. What a surprise.

[...a bit disco]

Gove though, eh?

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

Gove though, eh?

 

 

 

 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

A veritable weasel of the modern political game.

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Spot on.

 

A veritable weasel of the modern political game.

 

But enough about his wife.

 

 

[ri Alban]

I see Nigel's March is going well. 100 people at the last count.

[hughesie27]

11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I see Nigel's March is going well. 100 people at the last count.

Wasn't there a cap to it of 200 people max at any time?

[Class of 75]

54 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Dream on. So you're a non union, unionist. What a surprise.

Not at all. If you check their last election results they are polling less than 50% in each constituency. With regards to your last point, proud to be so. 

[Class of 75]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. May's deal's already been voted down. Twice. It's because it's gonna get voted down a third time if it's voted on that she's toast. Your comment in that regard is so myopic, it's unbelievable. 

 

2. Nope. And a heck of a hostage to fortune from you, the man who claimed "Cameron is finished!" a few days into the 2010 coalition negotiations. So 'finished' was he, he lasted another 6 years as PM.

 

3. What does he stand for? I agree, it's so so difficult to pin it down. It's not like he's remained consistent in his beliefs and values for well over 30 years, is it? 

 

- While he protested against apartheid, Thatcher supported it

 

- While he protested against Pinochet, Thatcher supported him

 

- While he protested against the Iraq War, we bombed the smithereens out of the place

 

- While he protested against the Libyan intervention, we bombed the smithereens out of there too

 

- While he's stood against arms sales to Saudi Arabia, we've profited from the deaths of countless innocents in Yemen and elsewhere

 

- While he stood against austerity, much of the rest of his party supported it, and 120,000 people (and counting) died

 

- While he opposed the 2014 Immigration Bill, most of the rest of Parliament waved it through... directly resulting in Windrush.

 

- While he comforted and grieved with the Grenfell families, May was nowhere to be seen

 

- The opposition he leads has inflicted more defeats on the government than any opposition to Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron combined. 

 

- And he took over a party which was practically bankrupt, reinvigorated it, gave it its soul back, increased its membership by half a million and its vote by 3.5m: all at a time social democratic parties have collapsed across Europe.

 

You're a cynic, Thor. I get why: there isn't much in British politics to be happy about, and there hasn't been for very many years. We haven't even had a good PM since Harold Wilson, frankly. But your cynicism means you never have any practical solutions. You basically throw constant opprobrium at pretty much everything. I find it quite sad, to be honest. 

 

Not only that... but I daresay, in your own way, you've been brainwashed too. In the words of Noam Chomsky:

 

"One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually pro-racist and antisemitic". 

 

Because you see: Corbyn doesn't have "questionable views on certain religions". You, like the media, literally just made that up. By contrast, in the Conservative Party, Islamophobia is rampant. But heck: I even think it's rampant on this forum, and few people say a single word about it.

I though you as an English patriot would have nothing to do with Corbyn 

[ri Alban]

54 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Wasn't there a cap to it of 200 people max at any time?

I couldn't tell you.

[Victorian]

Iain Duncan Smith.      Thinks it was intolerable that the conditional extension requested by May was dismissed and that something that wasn't requested was offered instead (unconditional shorter extension).    She should have rejected that and gone back in to insist on what she requested.

 

Living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

On the idea of an emergency leader.     He says that the appointment of an emergency leader outwith the normal leadership process is intolerable to the whole Tory party,    regardless of their views.

 

Self appointed view maker of all individual Tory party members.      

 

How's the subversion of UK democracy in the dark corners of Europe going Iain?

Edited March 24, 2019 by Victorian

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

Not at all. If you check their last election results they are polling less than 50% in each constituency. With regards to your last point, proud to be so. 

 

In each constituency? Bollocks.

 

Here, knock yourself out.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/scotland-constituencies

 

Second one in. Aberdeen Donside. SNP 56%. etc. etc.

 

And I'm not an SNP supporter. I just hate folk playing loose with the facts.

[SwindonJambo]

7 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

In all of my life, I have never seen someone so continually abused, insulted, and blamed for the world and its wife as he's been. By literally everyone under the sun.

 

He's now about to see off his second Tory opponent. And you think he 'lacks backbone'?!?!?!?!

 

Those Tory opponents saw/are about to see themselves off due to Brexit Nothing whatsoever to do with Corbyn. And despite being a disunited shambles, they've remained in power and Corbyn's barely laid a glove on them.

 

I've never voted Tory in my life nor will I ever do so btw.

[Francis Albert]

13 hours ago, Costanza said:

The initial expectations were this:

 

"The international trade secretary promised in 2017 that the government would “replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we’ve got no disruption of trade”.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/af71b01c-1cb5-11e9-b2f7-97e4dbd3580d

The link just gets me to an invite to subscribe to the FT.

Ministers have expected lots of things over the past two years. Few shared many of their expectations and I remember this expectation being derided by many. About half of it has been achieved which surprised me and I found good news ... but of course we can't have that.

In any event given progress to date on leaving his promise might still be fulfilled!

Edited March 24, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Mikey1874]

13 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

No it isn't. It's because Corbyn has taken his party too far left to appeal to the middle ground, which must be won over to win an election as Neil Kinnock will tell you.

He's also a snivelling spineless wimp, who couldn't run a bath.

 

Your problem there is in definition. 

 

The Labour platform and policies may have some 'left wing' policies. UK may recognise Palestine under Corbyn for example. Raising benefit levels isn't 'left wing' and Labour is barely even proposing to do that. But it's more just choosing different policies. I see them as pretty moderate overall. 

 

Unless for example you define Germany for example as left wing. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Class of 75]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

In each constituency? Bollocks.

 

Here, knock yourself out.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/scotland-constituencies

 

Second one in. Aberdeen Donside. SNP 56%. etc. etc.

 

And I'm not an SNP supporter. I just hate folk playing loose with the facts. 

Maybe not  a 100% of constituencies but their vote is decreasing. If it wasn't why are they are minority government being propped up by the Greens? Sure they have 56% of the vote in Aberdeen Donside as you suggest but in other areas the Unionist vote is split 3 ways giving them an advantage. There are several seats where their majority is in single figures.

[Class of 75]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Your problem there is in definition. 

 

The Labour platform and policies may have some 'left wing' policies. UK may recognise Palestine under Corbyn for example. Raising benefit levels isn't 'left wing' and Labour is barely even proposing to do that. But it's more just choosing different policies. I see them as pretty moderate overall. 

 

Unless for example you define Germany for example as left wing. 

Moderate? Corbyn makes Michael Foot look like a member of the ERG. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Class of 75

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Moderate? Corbyn makes Michael Foot look like a member of the ERG. 

 

So what are the 'extreme' or 'left wing' policies?

 

 

[Cruyff Turn]

7 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Maybe not  a 100% of constituencies but their vote is decreasing. If it wasn't why are they are minority government being propped up by the Greens? Sure they have 56% of the vote in Aberdeen Donside as you suggest but in other areas the Unionist vote is split 3 ways giving them an advantage. There are several seats where their majority is in single figures.

The English Parties in Holyroods vote is made up of 2nd and 3rd choice list MSPs. If it was only a FPTP system, it would look like this - The SNP would have 59 seats, Tories, 7, Lib Dem’s 4 and Labour 3. 

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

Maybe not  a 100% of constituencies but their vote is decreasing. If it wasn't why are they are minority government being propped up by the Greens? Sure they have 56% of the vote in Aberdeen Donside as you suggest but in other areas the Unionist vote is split 3 ways giving them an advantage. There are several seats where their majority is in single figures.

Holyrood elections are designed to have a minority government. The SNP had over 1 million 2nd votes and received no additional seats. Most of Labour/libs/Unionist and greens seats are on the list vote, while the SNP seats are all Fptp.

As for your opinions on their popularity. They won't need to win the next Holyrood devolved parliament, As the next election in Scotland will be it's first general election after independence. Whether we rejoin the EU will be on Party manifestoes.  ?

Edited March 24, 2019 by ri Alban

[Mikey1874]

Public information though more a plug for a book 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cade]

2 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Maybe not  a 100% of constituencies but their vote is decreasing. If it wasn't why are they are minority government being propped up by the Greens? Sure they have 56% of the vote in Aberdeen Donside as you suggest but in other areas the Unionist vote is split 3 ways giving them an advantage. There are several seats where their majority is in single figures.

You obviously have no clue how the Alternative Vote system works.

 

Tragic.

[Ray Gin]

The Petition to revoke Article 50 has now topped 5 million signatures.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/24/brexit-petition-to-revoke-article-50-reaches-5m-signatures

 

[Francis Albert]

The Observer has given up any pretence of being a newspaper rather than a propaganda sheet. It's front page headline "A million march against Brexit" is not supported by anything in the text of the article and the rest of the multi-page coverage of this event. In fact the report says that  the organisers say it is very difficult to estimate the numbers. The inner page headline above the rest of the news story goes further and says "More than a million march against Brexit".