Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Bridge of Djoum]

10 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

I agree with that, but you stated it as fact in your original post. Not disputing the figures, just wondered why a guess was fact

 

ALL FA's guesses are facts.

 

Do keep up...?

[The Comedian]

Who cares how many hysterical people marched in London? It's a total irrelevance. It was nothing but a mass gathering of crybaby middle class weirdos who are used to getting their own way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Costanza]

18 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

You do know that Parliament has to vote and agree on us not leaving on Friday?

According to lawyers it's off the table for Friday as domestic law is superceded by International Law i.e. EU treaties.

Would whisper that though as some people will have a coronary based on that.

The UK government will need to amend the legislation otherwise UK and EU law will be out of sync, so bit of a mess. 

For a change. 

 

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2019/03/23/extending-article-50-separating-myth-and-legal-reality/

[Toggie88]

The Chequers day trippers are now calling themselves, with no hint of irony 'the Grand Wizards'. 

 

Can't make this shit up. 

 

SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW! 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Toggie88

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, The Comedian said:

Who cares how many hysterical people marched in London? It's a total irrelevance. It was nothing but a mass gathering of crybaby middle class weirdos who are used to getting their own way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice sweeping generalisation there.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

See?

In my opinion less than half that in fact.

Or indeed. Or in reality. Or whatever. It is bleeding obvious it was an opinion and not in fact ... a fact.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

In my opinion less than half that in fact.

Or indeed. Or in reality. Or whatever. It is bleeding obvious it was an opinion and not in fact ... a fact.

And round and round we go and still you won't say ''I was wrong''. Not that it matters.

 

The fact is you said it was a fact when indeed your ''fact'' had no factual basis. It was an opinion. 

 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

And round and round we go and still you won't say ''I was wrong''. Not that it matters.

 

The fact is you said it was a fact when indeed your ''fact'' had no factual basis. It was an opinion. 

 

 

One of the only reasons I come back on here is to see if Francis ever admits to being wrong. But I shouldn't do that as it detracts from my yeti-hunting.

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 12:49, Cruyff Turn said:

The English Parties in Holyroods vote is made up of 2nd and 3rd choice list MSPs. If it was only a FPTP system, it would look like this - The SNP would have 59 seats, Tories, 7, Lib Dem’s 4 and Labour 3. 

 

 

English Parties? You mean UK. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

One of the only reasons I come back on here is to see if Francis ever admits to being wrong. But I shouldn't do that as it detracts from my yeti-hunting.

He's just as bad as a certain Antipodean poster who just will never admit to any mis-step or error. 

 

How is the hunting going?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Bridge of Djoum

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 14:47, Cade said:

You obviously have no clue how the Alternative Vote system works.

 

Tragic.

I do, it supports minority parties which is why the SNP were so keen to see it used in the Scottish Parliament 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

He's just as bad as a certain Antipodean poster who just will never admit to any mis-step or error. 

 

How is the hunting going?

 

Badly, I'm afraid. I haven't caught any yet. I did manage to take a picture of one once though, but it was a bit blurry. I won't give up though!

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 14:47, Cade said:

You obviously have no clue how the Alternative Vote system works.

 

Tragic.

You have misread my post. I was referring to the UK General Election where FPTP was used not the Scottish Election where an alternative is used. Tragic that you failed to read it correctly 

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 14:47, Cade said:

You obviously have no clue how the Alternative Vote system works.

 

Tragic.

You have misread my post. I was referring to the UK General Election where FPTP was used not the Scottish Election where an alternative is used. Tragic that you failed to read it correctly 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Badly, I'm afraid. I haven't caught any yet. I did manage to take a picture of one once though, but it was a bit blurry. I won't give up though!

Best wishes.

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 13:43, ri Alban said:

Holyrood elections are designed to have a minority government. The SNP had over 1 million 2nd votes and received no additional seats. Most of Labour/libs/Unionist and greens seats are on the list vote, while the SNP seats are all Fptp.

As for your opinions on their popularity. They won't need to win the next Holyrood devolved parliament, As the next election in Scotland will be it's first general election after independence. Whether we rejoin the EU will be on Party manifestoes.  ?

Which will have to be agreed upon by the UK government. I can't see that happening anytime soon. 

[redjambo]

Just now, Class of 75 said:

I do, it supports minority parties which is why the SNP were so keen to see it used in the Scottish Parliament 

 

It's a fairly reasonable attempt to produce an ensemble of politicians that more closely match the overall vote of the electorate. I'm all for it, personally, for that reason alone. Less votes "wasted" and less tactical voting.

[Class of 75]

On 24/03/2019 at 12:44, Mikey1874 said:

 

So what are the 'extreme' or 'left wing' policies?

 

 

Where do you want me to start? 

[Class of 75]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It's a fairly reasonable attempt to produce an ensemble of politicians that more closely match the overall vote of the electorate. I'm all for it, personally, for that reason alone. Less votes "wasted" and less tactical voting.

There are pros and cons to all systems but yes it does ensure less votes are wasted. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Class of 75

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

I do, it supports minority parties which is why the SNP were so keen to see it used in the Scottish Parliament 

 

It’s the SNPs fault that the constitutional convention and ultimately the Blair government set up the voting system for the Scottish parliament the way it is? 

 

Right now fptp would would benefit the snp.

[Victorian]

Letwin amendment result in a few mins.    If it falls then a no deal outcome becomes very,  very likely.

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Letwin amendment result in a few mins.    If it falls then a no deal outcome becomes very,  very likely.

Looks at the Gov seats it seems like a decent Victory for the Ayes.

 

See how it transpires.

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Letwin amendment result in a few mins.    If it falls then a no deal outcome becomes very,  very likely.

 

May ruled No Deal out earlier.

[hughesie27]

Government lose.

[Mikey1874]

Letwin wins 329 to 302

[Victorian]

There was a detailed debate about how the indicative votes would be structured.      It will take a major effort to even agree that.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

May ruled No Deal out earlier.

 

Means nothing.     

[Mikey1874]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

Government lose.

 

With at least 2 government ministers resigning 

 

Previous similar vote lost by 2 so quite a significant change to win by 27

[Victorian]

The amendment standing gives much more clout to whatever results from the votes.    The government can still ignore the whole thing but there's more legitimacy to the will of parliament now that the process was voted for in the first place.     

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Victorian said:

The amendment standing gives much more clout to whatever results from the votes.    The government can still ignore the whole thing but there's more legitimacy to the will of parliament now that the process was voted for in the first place.     

 

EU will take note 

[Victorian]

The business of deciding how these indicative votes take place is going to be mammoth.      There are about a million permutations.      It will not be settled quickly.

[Don Dan]

Nobody knows what’s going on ?. It is now a shambles. Humiliating as it maybe for some we need to pull the pin and revoke A50.

[Mikey1874]

1. Long delay

 

2. General election

 

3. Then consensus approach in Parliament /Hard Brexit depending on result 

[Mikey1874]

Indicative votes etc will most likely just show that more debate is healthy but there is no consensus apart from stopping No Deal. 

[Cruyff Turn]

31 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

English Parties? You mean UK. 

No, I mean English Parties. They are registered there and take their orders and policies from there. If they were UK Parties, they’d be separate entities, they are not.

[redjambo]

Here's just hoping that any indicative votes will not be whipped by any party. We need true representation of what MPs across the House feel on the various possibilities, whether in reaction to their constituents' views or not.

[Victorian]

Whatever structure results will hopefully indicate a clear majority for something to take it forward.    Only a clear will being expressed is likely to be adopted by the government.      A confused structure can easily lead to no clear will being expressed.     May's deal has no chance via a stand-alone motion but it could emerge as part of a changed approach via the indicative votes.     Maybe May's deal but with a confirmatory public vote.      But even now,    no deal is still very possible.

[Francis Albert]

39 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

One of the only reasons I come back on here is to see if Francis ever admits to being wrong. But I shouldn't do that as it detracts from my yeti-hunting.

If anyone ever admits that the assertion that border controls in Ireland  would be a breach of the terms of the  Good Friday Agreement is a lie I'll think about admitting I was wrong about something. Though in fact if you were paying attention you would know I have often admitted to being wrong. Not about anything as straightforward and as fundamental as that though.

[Mikey1874]

Vote on 'No Deal /extension within 7 days of leaving with No Deal' amendment defeated by 3

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Victorian]

Damien 'I didn't log on to the computer that day' Green voted against the government.     A big May ally.

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

Vote on 'No Deal /extension within 7 days of leaving with No Deal' amendment defeated by 3

That was Margaret Becketts amendment which was probably the most important one.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

That was Margaret Becketts amendment which was probably the most important one.

 

I know there are other views but No Deal is out. And unless a Deal is agreed, which is very unlikely there will need to be another, longer extension anyway. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Victorian]

The only control path May has now is to drive the bus off the cliff.     It's either that or adopt parliament's will (to be determined).      

[Victorian]

No deal being out still needs to be adopted in law.    It is not.

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I know there are other views but No Deal is out. And unless a Deal is agreed, which is very unlikely there will need to be another, longer extension anyway. 

I suppose that depends on the EU and whether or not they’d agree, Macron didn’t seem too open to it last time.

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

No deal being out still needs to be adopted in law.    It is not.

She’s being worked from behind by the Brexiteers. I don’t think she will respect the outcome of these votes, and will offer up her deal next week, which she knows will fail, then she can blame Parliament for the outcome. She can’t keep kicking the can down the road forever, so unless, as you say, no deal is legislated against, then that is where we are still heading.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

She’s being worked from behind by the Brexiteers. I don’t think she will respect the outcome of these votes, and will offer up her deal next week, which she knows will fail, then she can blame Parliament for the outcome. She can’t keep kicking the can down the road forever, so unless, as you say, no deal is legislated against, then that is where we are still heading.

 

Parliament has done all it could have done.    Crash out is now May's only route of control.      We crash out... it's her choice alone.

[Mikey1874]

Speaker winding them up now 

[Mikey1874]

Sky News have stayed on with Ian Blackford 

[Victorian]

The government's excuse for ignoring certain routes will be to say it contradicts their last election manifesto,    etc.        But their manifesto did not get an electoral mandate because they're not a majority government.