Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[LeftBack]

15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Lol

 

 

Madder than Jack mcmad etc.... 

Boris as pm would ensure independence in a few weeks and world war three by late August. Surely there is no one who can disagree the man is the biggest buffoon around? 

[Cade]

Treeza now NOT planning the 3rd vote tomorrow, after a phone call to the Orangemen.

 

  

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Treeza now NOT planning the 3rd vote tomorrow, after a phone call to the Orangemen.

 

  

Holy crap. That is all. DUP now running the whole uk

[Mikey1874]

Speaker's ruling gives them the option to avoid a third historic defeat. 

 

But Plan B?

[Mikey1874]

Amendments being voted on today

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47693305

[Shanks]

the whole country being ruled by a few MPs from Northern Ireland

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

the whole country being ruled by a few MPs from Northern Ireland

 

Who are a small minority in N.Ireland 

[Cade]

It's amusing that when most of Europe works with coalition governments as a matter of course, people in the UK totally lose their minds about "the tail wagging the dog" and "being held ransom by a fringe".

 

Consensus politics is alien to the UK.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

“Downing Street refuses to confirm meaningful vote this week.”

 

Dudes. We leave on Friday. WTF?

[Cade]

30 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

“Downing Street refuses to confirm meaningful vote this week.”

 

Dudes. We leave on Friday. WTF?

I know things are moving fast, but you have to keep up.

 

New possible no-deal leaving date is April 12th.

 

If Treeza's plan get ratified by Parliament then we get an extension until 22nd May to pass the legislation needed.

If it gets rejected again, then we crash out with no deal on April 12th.

 

At the minute those are the only two options.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

I know things are moving fast, but you have to keep up.

 

New possible no-deal leaving date is April 12th.

 

If Treeza's plan get ratified by Parliament then we get an extension until 22nd May to pass the legislation needed.

If it gets rejected again, then we crash out with no deal on April 12th.

 

At the minute those are the only two options.

 

Leaving on 29 March is still an option.

 

Unlikely perhaps but possible.

 

If vote isn't taken again and no other option comes out of the other votes government could say it won't bring the legislation to change the leaving date. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

I know things are moving fast, but you have to keep up.

 

New possible no-deal leaving date is April 12th.

 

If Treeza's plan get ratified by Parliament then we get an extension until 22nd May to pass the legislation needed.

If it gets rejected again, then we crash out with no deal on April 12th.

 

At the minute those are the only two options.

 

The one caveat I'd add to this is that the EU has widely signaled that if something changes in the UK, like a no confidence vote, general election, second referendum, whatever, they are open to a longer extension. They just aren't going to grant one for May to hold MV4, MV12, MV542, etc.

 

EDIT: And while there's zero chance a Tory government will do it, the UK technically can revoke Article 50 and start over or throw in the Brexit towel. Nothing stopping them.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Ugly American

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

27 minutes ago, Cade said:

I know things are moving fast, but you have to keep up.

 

New possible no-deal leaving date is April 12th.

 

If Treeza's plan get ratified by Parliament then we get an extension until 22nd May to pass the legislation needed.

If it gets rejected again, then we crash out with no deal on April 12th.

 

At the minute those are the only two options.

 

 

i give up

[Mikey1874]

May giving another statement to Parliament. 

 

Not enough support yet for Deal. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Mikey1874]

May has said she has put down the legislation to change the leave date and 29 March is no longer happening. 

 

And in answer to a question from a No Deal Brexiteer says Parliament voted to do that by rejecting No Deal.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Mikey1874]

In other news BBC news stayed with it when Ian Blackford spoke. 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The people who support Nigel and his politics will more than likely be at work right now.

Aye, so all the remainers are on the dole.

[Mikey1874]

DUP laying into May. 

[Toggie88]

1 hour ago, Longshanks said:

the whole country being ruled by a few MPs from Northern Ireland

 

But Labour doing the same with the SNP would be a "constitutional crisis". 

 

Quote

Theresa May: SNP-Labour pact would spark biggest constitutional crisis since the abdication of Edward VIII

• Home Secretary claims voters 'would not accept legitimacy' of the alliance
• Compared it to Kind Edward's abdication which 'paralysed governing class'
• One in three voters would consider coalition 'illegitimate', new poll showed

By SIMON WALTERS POLITICAL EDITOR FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY

PUBLISHED: 22:12, 25 April 2015 | UPDATED: 13:47, 26 April 2015

 

Britain will face its biggest constitutional crisis since Edward VIII abdicated in 1936 if Ed Miliband runs Britain with Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May has warned.

In a dramatic intervention in the Election campaign, the Home Secretary questioned whether English voters would accept the 'legitimacy' of a Labour Government backed by Scottish Nationalists.

And she compared the effects of such a pact to the way Britain's governing class was paralysed for months in the 1930s because of King Edward VIII's affair with American divorcee Wallis Simpson.

After being told the public would not accept Simpson as Queen, the crisis was only resolved when Edward abdicated.

By questioning the 'legitimacy' of a Miliband Government backed by Sturgeon, Mrs May has raised the stakes in the row over the prospect of Labour teaming up with the SNP to rule the UK.

She believes that English voters would not accept Sturgeon's party having vital power over their lives.

The Conservatives believe that fear of a Labour-SNP alliance could persuade floating voters to switch to the Tories and keep Miliband out of Downing Street.

Mrs May told The Mail on Sunday: 'If we saw a Labour Government propped up by SNP it could be the biggest constitutional crisis since the abdication.

'It would mean Scottish MPs who have no responsibility for issues like health, education and policing in their own constituencies [as they are devolved to the Scottish Parliament] making decisions on those issues for England and Wales.

'Rightly, people in England would say, "hang on a minute why are Scottish Nationalist MPs allowed to do that?"

Mrs May's comments were underlined by a new poll which showed voters believe Miliband would be Sturgeon's puppet under any coalition deal.

The poll also found that, in such an eventuality, English voters would be ready to turn the tables on the Scots by opting to break away from the Union and declare independence for England and Wales combined.

According to the Survation poll for The Mail on Sunday, a third of UK voters would consider a Miliband-Sturgeon government to be 'illegitimate,' echoing Mrs May's warning.

Explaining why she feared an English backlash, Mrs May argued: 'Miliband would be in government on the coat-tails of Sturgeon and Alex Salmond. 

'They would be calling the tune – people who don't want the UK to exist and want to destroy our country.

'There would be a very real feeling was this was something people did not want to see, had not voted for and would find very difficult to accept. It would raise difficult questions about legitimacy. A lot of English people would question that.'

 

[ri Alban]

Just now, Toggie88 said:

 

But Labour doing the same with the SNP would be a "constitutional crisis". 

 

 

The PM or The FM should have offered a section 30 for the 35 votes. What do think. No! Me Tae.

[Toggie88]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The PM or The FM should have offered a section 30 for the 35 votes. What do think. No! Me Tae.

 

SNP are too principled for that.

 

Plus the DUP would withdraw their support for the Government, giving May little chance to govern after Brexit got through. She's absolutely desperate to enact her domestic policies, that's why she's clinging to this deal. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Toggie88

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

SNP are too principled for that.

 

Plus the DUP would withdraw their support for the Government, giving May little chance to govern after Brexit got through. She's absolutely desperate to enact her domestic policies, that's why she's clinging to this deal. 

I've missed it all today, is it worth putting on iPlayer.

[Victorian]

She said she wont commit to MV3 until there is sufficient support for it to succeed.

 

She has been repeatedly asked what plan B is if we get to April12 and the choice is no-deal or long extension.     The only answer given is that she is committed to getting MV3 through.

 

Mental.    Nothing has changed.

[Victorian]

Things we do know.

 

Government will not abide by indicative votes.

 

Government will whip vote on amendment tonight to provide indicative votes,    despite indicative votes representing the purpose of the extension she was given by the EU.     They are going to allow the indicative votes anyway.

 

It's more of the same control freakery and deception.

[Toggie88]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I've missed it all today, is it worth putting on iPlayer.

I've got it on in the background - just May spraffing the same old 'Brexit means Brexit', 'only way to get certainty is to back this deal', etc etc. Feels like a repeat. 

[Victorian]

About 40 MPs have spent the last hour asking the same 3 questions.     

[Watt-Zeefuik]

How TF is she still PM . . . 

[flecktimus]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

About 40 MPs have spent the last hour asking the same 3 questions.     

 

Its like Ground Hog day. I am expecting the speaker to play sonny & cher at any moment.

[Victorian]

Jess Phillips just put some real passion into the plea for a meaningful engagement from the PM.      Totally dismissed.

[Cade]

STILL

 

MY WAY OR NO WAY

 

The woman is deranged

[Victorian]

You will not see a clearer message that,    when May says she's reaching out across the house and allowing others to express a majority for 'something',     what it actually amounts to is May speaking to others in parliament with the same closed mind.     The views of others will only mean anything if they directly facilitate her deal in some way.

 

The EU must be wondering why they bothered spending half a day thrashing out an agreement to provide an extension.      

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You will not see a clearer message that,    when May says she's reaching out across the house and allowing others to express a majority for 'something',     what it actually amounts to is May speaking to others in parliament with the same closed mind.     The views of others will only mean anything if they directly facilitate her deal in some way.

 

The EU must be wondering why they bothered spending half a day thrashing out an agreement to provide an extension.      

 

Or why they bothered negociating for 2 years with May.

[Martin_T]

5 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The people who support Nigel and his politics will more than likely be at work right now.

 

If anything it's the other way around. A sizeable chunk of the 51.9% are working class, dispossessed and nothing to lose people who are looking to kick what they perceive as the establishment. Ironically those at the other end of the Brexit spectrum are the ultra rich, ultra elite, who are simply on the make.

 

The vast majority of the 48.1% in the advisory and not legally binding referendum, are the middle class who are living perfectly comfortable lives in the status quo.

[Victorian]

Hard Brexit twat Bill Cash trying to tie the government in knots with highly complex,  almost abstract,   legal mumbo jumbo re UK / EU law re the withdrawal agreement.       

 

David Lidington at the very least is trying his level best to provide MPs with some detail regarding the road ahead.     Infinitely more good faith being shown than ever emits from the PM.

[Dunks]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

No it was my estimate or more accurately guesstimate. I was surprised when I took my place in Princes Street near the Mound to see not the throngs I expected but people standing on average two deep. The fact that I and most others then joined the bus, walking behind or alongside meant that from then on there was always a large crowd around the bus. Haymarket was the first place where the streets themselves were thronged with people lining the pavements waiting for the parade. My guesstimate is based on being in other crowds - the Hogmanay Street party, fireworks displays, Hampden with over 120,000. I think 100,000, maybe 150,000at the very  high end. Not 250,000 or close.

 

So opinion then, not fact.

 

Cool.

[The Mighty Thor]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Hard Brexit twat Bill Cash trying to tie the government in knots with highly complex,  almost abstract,   legal mumbo jumbo re UK / EU law re the withdrawal agreement.       

There will be a fair bit of that in the next few days. 

There will be arm twisting, brown envelopes, honours and all sorts flying about. 

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

So opinion then, not fact.

 

Cool.

Of course. As are all crowd estimates of this sort.

[Victorian]

A general underlying feeling coming out across the house that the Letwin motion must be voted for because,   while the government once again is appearing to facilitate it anyway (despite whipping against it on the flimsy excuse of constitutional convention),    they all know that they'll be ****ed over again.     They all know it.      Keir Starmer tried his best to name and shame the source of this ongoing climate of ****ing them over while trying to be respectful of Lidington and Hammond,   etc.

 

It is quite normal for the PM to be absent at this stage of a debate,    but where is the Leader of the House,    given that order paper discussions are at the very centre of the debate?

 

The PM is at the heart of the climate of shafting MPs.     The Leader of the House is deeply involved as well.

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

If anything it's the other way around. A sizeable chunk of the 51.9% are working class, dispossessed and nothing to lose people who are looking to kick what they perceive as the establishment. Ironically those at the other end of the Brexit spectrum are the ultra rich, ultra elite, who are simply on the make.

 

The vast majority of the 48.1% in the advisory and not legally binding referendum, are the middle class who are living perfectly comfortable lives in the status quo.

 

Where do these stats come from? 

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

STILL

 

MY WAY OR NO WAY

 

The woman is deranged

It’s working though . I would now take a no deal just to end the old bat. 

Imagine what it’s like for the mp’s ?

attritional

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

If anything it's the other way around. A sizeable chunk of the 51.9% are working class, dispossessed and nothing to lose people who are looking to kick what they perceive as the establishment. Ironically those at the other end of the Brexit spectrum are the ultra rich, ultra elite, who are simply on the make.

 

The vast majority of the 48.1% in the advisory and not legally binding referendum, are the middle class who are living perfectly comfortable lives in the status quo.

 

This is region by region analysis (https://academic.oup.com/economicpolicy/article/32/92/601/4459491) so it's hard to get directly at age but I would say that splitting this by class confuses the issue. Older, lower education, manufacturing-dependent areas were much more likely to be pro-Brexit, but it's hard to break that down by class because the younger working class isn't doing great, but they are more educated, more urban, and less dependent on manufacturing.

 

The picture of the Leave voter emerges as older, unsatisfied with life, dependent on public support, lower engagement with the internet, living in a manufacturing area with few EU-origin migrants living nearby.  One can see why the "Brexit dividend" and the promise of millions for the NHS resonated.

 

Much like in the US, austerity has gutted people's livelihoods and the elites have decided to blame immigrants for the problem.

[Martin_T]

16 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Where do these stats come from? 

 

It's my opinion and there are no stats suggested.

[AlphonseCapone]

Just now, Martin_T said:

 

It's my opinion and there are no stats suggested.

 

Ah right you stated it in a pretty matter of fact sort of way so I assumed it was based on more than your own prejudices. My bad, carry on. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

No it was my estimate or more accurately guesstimate. I was surprised when I took my place in Princes Street near the Mound to see not the throngs I expected but people standing on average two deep. The fact that I and most others then joined the bus, walking behind or alongside meant that from then on there was always a large crowd around the bus. Haymarket was the first place where the streets themselves were thronged with people lining the pavements waiting for the parade. My guesstimate is based on being in other crowds - the Hogmanay Street party, fireworks displays, Hampden with over 120,000. I think 100,000, maybe 150,000at the very  high end. Not 250,000 or close.

But you stated your ''estimate'' was ''fact''.

[Bridge of Djoum]

22 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Me too. Some even claimed it was 250000 that day. Less than half that in fact. 

See?

[doctor jambo]

So it’s her deal or no deal.

so we reject her deal and don’t get no deal.

then it’s her deal or no deal - rejected again and don’t get no deal.

Now it’s her deal or no deal.

there is zero leadership here,  zero.

corbyn won’t commit, Teresa should be sectioned , 

I cannot stand either of them

[Dunks]

44 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Of course. As are all crowd estimates of this sort.

 

I agree with that, but you stated it as fact in your original post. Not disputing the figures, just wondered why a guess was fact

 

[hughesie27]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

I know things are moving fast, but you have to keep up.

 

New possible no-deal leaving date is April 12th.

 

If Treeza's plan get ratified by Parliament then we get an extension until 22nd May to pass the legislation needed.

If it gets rejected again, then we crash out with no deal on April 12th.

 

At the minute those are the only two options.

You do know that Parliament has to vote and agree on us not leaving on Friday?

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

So it’s her deal or no deal.

so we reject her deal and don’t get no deal.

then it’s her deal or no deal - rejected again and don’t get no deal.

Now it’s her deal or no deal.

there is zero leadership here,  zero.

corbyn won’t commit, Teresa should be sectioned , 

I cannot stand either of them

From yesterdays Sunday Times

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

7 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The people who support Nigel and his politics will more than likely be at work right now.

 

Do you ever EVER just stop and think before engaging mouth or fingers upon keys?