Boab Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 There was significant unrest at the Dunfermline game. Frustration will only grow if we do not make an appropriate managerial appointment and make the glaringly obvious signings we require before the window closes. Budge's statement of 3 weeks ago will be scrutinised and used as a stick to beat her with if she does not appoint an experienced manager and rightly so. As for Martin he's been with us 8 months and not kicked a ball in a piss poor side. He can barely get on the pitch which says it all. A complete waste of time. Missed the Dunfermline game so can't comment but at all the league games so far there has been no dissent whatsoever. Granted, they have been away games which probably answers it's own question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 If we have a preferred option of a manager in a position it would have been leaked or an approach would be in for them revealed by the other club. Everyone mentions how cut throats and shrewd no nonsense business woman Budge is, if this is the case why would she act all nice until an international break when it's a pressing concern right here, right now? Imo, I don't think it's a stitch up for Daly to get the job but I'm thinking Freedman has went to Palace and let us down leading to the statement yesterday instead of the announcement and it's left us with Jon doing no bad on the pitch so they are waiting to see what Saturday brings before either appointing him or Elvis. Because waiting a few more days won't make much difference to us but doesn't risk any good relationship the club has with other clubs which may be important in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallan Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 If it is Daly its not been based on 1 game. They have seen his work with the 20s for months now. Can he make the step up is another matter but they know all about Daly. The difference between making an announcement this week and making an announcement next week for Daly is one game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Delaying fan ownership again is not an option for me. However, if Ann backs off from her previously stated intention that she won't relinquish control until her loan is repaid in full, then I might consider it. The original agreement saw Ann insist that no shares would be handed over until the loan was repaid in full. The updated agreement saw the staged transfer of voting rights (not the shares) during the funding of the stand. FOH currently has voting rights over 20% of the shares, which should go up to 35% around May 2018. Ann will continue to own the shares until her loan is repaid in full, around the end of 2019, or early 2020 on the current schedule. Ann must recognise at some point that the fans ongoing contributions to the club are far greater than her own and allow fan ownership to happen. Her loan would still be secured against the club's assets, she would receive her 6% interest (7% APR) and her 17.4% "legacy" share of the club would remain intact, so she wouldn't be losing out on anything other than total control of the club. If, for instance, she sought that FOH commits itself to a funding a further ?2m towards the stand cost, then I would want 50% of the shares handed over to FOH on signing that deal, with the remaining 25.1% handed over at a later date. also 6m plus from mainly poorer fans. And we do have choices. If all the funding shortfall is to be met from club finds ie the salary budget then we are at best likely to stagnate on the pitch for some time. 500 club and debenture schemes have been dismissed because of the impact on future revenue but failure to be competitive will affect both current and future revenue And while i'd be reluctant to delay fan ownership further using more foh funding is also an option Depending on the scale of the shortfall a mixture of all three might be the right choice These are constructive posts and suggestions.We dont know yet what the state of our finances are but it looks like we are struggling to finance the new stand to the extent that our football budget is tightening and tightening.Its does not seem to have been helped by poor football decisions at management level .FA points out the implications of a failure to be competitive and that needs to resolved and offers reasonable suggestions which should be considered. Like FA I would be reluctant to delay fan ownership and it maybe that FFs suggestions could resolve this problem.If there is enough goodwill on all sides this could work? As for me, my donation to FOH is for life come hell or high water.I have always seen this money as a way of achieving fan ownership then towards financing the new stand and therafter as financing all kinds of things outwith the actual football budget.The order of events have varied but you get my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 There was significant unrest at the Dunfermline game. Frustration will only grow if we do not make an appropriate managerial appointment and make the glaringly obvious signings we require before the window closes. Budge's statement of 3 weeks ago will be scrutinised and used as a stick to beat her with if she does not appoint an experienced manager and rightly so. There was, but that was in the middle of a quite specific set of horrible circumstances when we'd just lost 2-1 to Peterhead and went out of the league cup after failing to beat Dunfermline. Also, importantly, it was at Tynecastle, and that's what I was getting at with the bit of my post about not truly playing at home for a while. Also, since then Cathro is gone (most of the anger was directed his way), we lost heavily to Celtic (but that was completely expected), we won away from home at Rugby Park and managed to bring a point home from Ibrox which appeared to leave many people slightly surprised. Remains to be seen how we do this weekend away to Motherwell, of course, but I can't see any huge unrest. Not unless they hammer us 5-0 and Daly loses his mind and plays Grzelak up front on his own or something. We might get to that point but I don't think we're at it yet, basically. Agree on the last point re: Budge and Levein being held to account (as they should be) but the strength of that reaction will ultimately depend on how Daly does too. There's a world of difference between thousands displaying their discontent in a stadium and a few folk kicking off online. No offence directed at you or anyone else with that, just trying to make the point that the two don't always necessary follow each other and if results are decent enough I don't think you'll get the same reaction as you had after Dunfy. Also, I'm not convinced there's a one size fits all solution to this. I don't think there's a decision they can make which would make everyone happy. I hope I'm completely wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Duck billed platypus. I'd be raging if so. Pure raging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four faces Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Duck billed platypus. Wow!.Now that is one evolutionary discombobulation of a **** up.Were you trying to be cryptic?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofgold Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Duck billed platypus. Ornithorhynchus paradoxus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Monotreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Because waiting a few more days won't make much difference to us but doesn't risk any good relationship the club has with other clubs which may be important in the future Waiting a few more days this close to the window does make a huge difference to us, and I'm not sure we should be dragging our heels to force the issue just to protect any relationship we have with the likes of St J or Partick. We don't know what's going on though. Hopefully we are not being too nicey nicey about it - I doubt that's the reason for the delay though, I think its because our top target went to Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Agreed. I've never considered stopping my FOH donations and don't get me wrong giving the club my money has no attaches to it as long as it goes on Hearts then fantastic but this constant theme with Budge is centred around us digging in our pockets all the time, I do put money in all the time without even thinking sometimes. I would like to club owner and hierarchy too show the same sort of oomph as we all do. What are we waiting for to appoint as new puppet it's gonna be Daly just get it over with so we can find out that he's not good enough and around and around we go while still pumping our hard earned cash in with **** all to show for it on the pitch. This is where i am at. There is a clear mismanagement of the footballing side at our club just now, whether that is down to Budge"s naivety, a naivety that could be argued has manifested in her misplaced trust and belief in appointing Levein as our DOF but time has shown such a scenario i think. Last season's signings including Cathro was a huge blunder, a blunder of a not very well thought out recruitment policy that reeked of a lack of quality and also a ridiculous shortsighted vision of not really addressing areas of the park that needed strengthening. Hopefully the penny has dropped with Budge that the Levein "frankenstein" experiment has backfired and has failed to produce any coherent consistency in regards to our performances on the park. This needs addressed and it needs to be addressed now. FTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Blind loyalty from AB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 If you weren't suggesting I was a "dick" then why tag your comments on to my post??? The point the other poster and I were making was that in the opinion of many on here no experienced Manager will work under Levein due to his personality and position at the Club. If I had wanted to call you a dick I would have - my point was aimed at anyone that has used 'The Word of Davies' against the club Levein in particular. I quoted your post because it used part of Davies' quote and that prompted the thought I then posted Let's call you a facilitator rather than a dick (not that I did ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 All CL has done since he became DoF is bring in people who have a Dundee Utd connection. Even Pressley. When was MacPhee at United? Andy Kirk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 There was, but that was in the middle of a quite specific set of horrible circumstances when we'd just lost 2-1 to Peterhead and went out of the league cup after failing to beat Dunfermline. Also, importantly, it was at Tynecastle, and that's what I was getting at with the bit of my post about not truly playing at home for a while. Also, since then Cathro is gone (most of the anger was directed his way), we lost heavily to Celtic (but that was completely expected), we won away from home at Rugby Park and managed to bring a point home from Ibrox which appeared to leave many people slightly surprised. Remains to be seen how we do this weekend away to Motherwell, of course, but I can't see any huge unrest. Not unless they hammer us 5-0 and Daly loses his mind and plays Grzelak up front on his own or something. We might get to that point but I don't think we're at it yet, basically. Agree on the last point re: Budge and Levein being held to account (as they should be) but the strength of that reaction will ultimately depend on how Daly does too. There's a world of difference between thousands displaying their discontent in a stadium and a few folk kicking off online. No offence directed at you or anyone else with that, just trying to make the point that the two don't always necessary follow each other and if results are decent enough I don't think you'll get the same reaction as you had after Dunfy. Also, I'm not convinced there's a one size fits all solution to this. I don't think there's a decision they can make which would make everyone happy. I hope I'm completely wrong on that. Agreed Redm But your last sentence is pie I'm the sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jailer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Daft cleaner at my work who also a cleaner up at riccarrton said that Paul Hartley has been up at riccarton all week. I'm sure if this is true it would have been on kickback by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartley10 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Blind loyalty from AB. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Daft cleaner at my work who also a cleaner up at riccarrton said that Paul Hartley has been up at riccarton all week. I'm sure if this is true it would have been on kickback by now. It's on kickback now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucille's Thirsty Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 This is where i am at. There is a clear mismanagement of the footballing side at our club just now, whether that is down to Budge"s naivety, a naivety that could be argued has manifested in her misplaced trust and belief in appointing Levein as our DOF but time has shown such a scenario i think. Last season's signings including Cathro was a huge blunder, a blunder of a not very well thought out recruitment policy that reeked of a lack of quality and also a ridiculous shortsighted vision of not really addressing areas of the park that needed strengthening. Hopefully the penny has dropped with Budge that the Levein "frankenstein" experiment has backfired and has failed to produce any coherent consistency in regards to our performances on the park. This needs addressed and it needs to be addressed now. FTH. I'm getting quite sick of it tbh mate. If we're doing well I'll pump more money in ten fold but right now they are taking us for granted thinking because of blind loyalty we'll put money in no matter what. Not going to happen from now on I want to see us improve before putting even more money into Hearts I've done enough. I don't mind putting money in mate I think most of us enjoy doing it as it's going on all things Hearts new signings ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 When you stand back and look at it in the cold light of day it is quite astonishing. FoH just gifts ?6m and gets a meaningless 20% "voting rights" and after another ?3m or so may if it keeps up the payments gain control. Ann lends ?2.3m, fully refundable, with generous interest, and all secured on the club's assets and gets full control for about 5 years (or indefinitely if FoH doesn't meet its payment obligations). She also grabs an ongoing share of 17.4% at about 1% of the cost FoH is paying per share.It's easy to see where the business brains lay in the FoH/Bidco negotiations. Except Ann's stewardship is beginning to reveal weaknesses not just because of her admitted lack of knowledge of football as a business but her lack of experience in a mass customer-facing business that relies on the goodwill of tens of thousands. Of the three most recent statements one was either a blatant lie or betrayed she didn't know what was going on, and one was an announcement that there will be another announcement next week. The football side and the new stand project are competing for what is the bigger shambles. I feel an AGM question or two coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 When you stand back and look at it in the cold light of day it is quite astonishing. FoH just gifts ?6m and gets a meaningless 20% "voting rights" and after another ?3m or so may if it keeps up the payments gain control. Ann lends ?2.3m, fully refundable, with generous interest, and all secured on the club's assets and gets full control for about 5 years. She also grabs an ongoing share of 17.4% at about 1% of the cost FoH is paying per share.It's easy to see where the business brains lay in the FoH/Bidco negotiations. Except Ann's stewardship is beginning to reveal weaknesses not just because of her admitted lack of knowledge of football as a business but her lack of experience in a mass customer-facing business that relies on the goodwill of tens of thousands. Of the three most recent statements one was either a blatant lie or betrayed she didn't know what was going on, and one was an announcement that there will be another announcement next week. The football side and the new stand project are competing for what is the bigger shambles. I feel an AGM question or two coming on. You're going to get ripped to pieces but that is a good, provactive post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 You're going to get ripped to pieces but that is a good, provactive post.Don't think it was either good or proactive , but there we are , it's all about opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Hearts fans desperate to rip down our infrastructure because of one shite season in three. Depressing. Who needs rivals. The fecking Aberdeen fan on here can see how stupid some fans are being, but actual Hearts supporters cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford donald Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Daft cleaner at my work who also a cleaner up at riccarrton said that Paul Hartley has been up at riccarton all week. I'm sure if this is true it would have been on kickback by now. Hope he is putting the boots back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Daft cleaner at my work who also a cleaner up at riccarrton said that Paul Hartley has been up at riccarton all week. I'm sure if this is true it would have been on kickback by now. Maybe using the gym facilities to sweat out some of that excess post playing days baggage he's been carrying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Hearts fans desperate to rip down our infrastructure because of one shite season in three. Depressing. Who needs rivals. The fecking Aberdeen fan on here can see how stupid some fans are being, but actual Hearts supporters cannot. 1/2 a shite season We were second when Neilson left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1/2 a shite season We were second when Neilson left We lost to a Maltese team in Europe and St Johnstone in the League Cup......on the back of a pretty historic cup defeat earlier in 2016. I'll give Robbie credit, he's no daft, he knew the ship was taking on water and those plugging the holes didn't have a scoobie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1/2 a shite season We were second when Neilson left Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 We lost to a Maltese team in Europe and St Johnstone in the League Cup......on the back of a pretty historic cup defeat earlier in 2016. I'll give Robbie credit, he's no daft, he knew the ship was taking on water and those plugging the holes didn't have a scoobie. Get the point but as most Scottish teams get punted out of Europe before August we were heading for a decent SPL season. Our bread and butter So we had half a shite season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Get the point but as most Scottish teams get punted out of Europe before August we were heading for a decent SPL season. Our bread and butter So we had half a shite season. We will never agree on this bud but quite frankly we have bigger issues right now than once again going over the merits or otherwise of Neilsons tenure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John mcCartney Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ?does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Don't think it was either good or proactive , but there we are , it's all about opinions Correct, it was neither good nor provocative. It was divisive and antagonistic and something that he has posted on numerous threads numerous times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Also Hendricks you are basically advocating that John McGlynn should still be our manager as he got one of our best results in Europe and got us to the league cup final.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardbresslawsarmchair Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that i predict by the time Ann hands over control she hasn't taken a single penny out the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 We will never agree on this bud but quite frankly we have bigger issues right now than once again going over the merits or otherwise of Neilsons tenure! I'm not I'm saying only half of our season was shite last year given our league placing half way through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that Don't think she does take a salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Also Hendricks you are basically advocating that John McGlynn should still be our manager as he got one of our best results in Europe and got us to the league cup final.... Definitely. Especially the cup final bit. That is how we measure success on here... reaching cup finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that Pretty sure she takes no salary. So if she is making around ?140k pa, she will earn much the same as an average premiership player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that She does not take a salary, and she is giving up ?300k of the interest due to her on the loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Also Hendricks you are basically advocating that John McGlynn should still be our manager as he got one of our best results in Europe and got us to the league cup final.... Not sure how you've leapt to that conclusion!!! Big big week coming up for those running Hearts though so I'll get back to concentrating on how that turns out rather than having a bun fight over the long since departed Robster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Definitely. Especially the cup final bit. That is how we measure success on here... reaching cup finals. Lol. If we measured "success" on that we sure as hell wouldn't have 13k+ season ticket holders. Our cup records are abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think the reaction on here to much of what has been going on is absolutely ridiculous but it's clear who the real passion supporters are who are frustrated and just want a successful team to watch, nothing wrong with that. I'm trying to see the big picture and not react to speculation, made up press stories and stick to the facts. I worked in the same industry as Ann Budge a long time back and have encountered her at meetings and conferences etc and she's a shrewd no nonsense operator which is why from a personal experience I trust her with the club. I'm slightly more dubious of CL but ill give him credit for the good things he's done, however his job is: RESPONSIBILITIES: Executive role, principally responsible for setting the strategy to achieve success on the field and for the day-to-day running of the football side of the business, supported by his management team based at Riccarton. Therefore I do think he needs to be more accountable and I think there is a potential for AB to cut ties if this appointment doesn't work. Couldn't agree more. Exactly where I'm at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that Steady. You're not going to have a pop are you. She saved the club if I had a spare 690k I'd give her it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Her notional salary is worth more like ?300,000 pa. 5 years worth ?1.5m. Stick that variable into the computer of malcontent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 When you stand back and look at it in the cold light of day it is quite astonishing. FoH just gifts ?6m and gets a meaningless 20% "voting rights" and after another ?3m or so may if it keeps up the payments gain control. Ann lends ?2.3m, fully refundable, with generous interest, and all secured on the club's assets and gets full control for about 5 years (or indefinitely if FoH doesn't meet its payment obligations). She also grabs an ongoing share of 17.4% at about 1% of the cost FoH is paying per share.It's easy to see where the business brains lay in the FoH/Bidco negotiations. Except Ann's stewardship is beginning to reveal weaknesses not just because of her admitted lack of knowledge of football as a business but her lack of experience in a mass customer-facing business that relies on the goodwill of tens of thousands. Of the three most recent statements one was either a blatant lie or betrayed she didn't know what was going on, and one was an announcement that there will be another announcement next week. The football side and the new stand project are competing for what is the bigger shambles.I feel an AGM question or two coming on. Well throughout post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Because waiting a few more days won't make much difference to us but doesn't risk any good relationship the club has with other clubs which may be important in the future Important to who? Ann Budge or the club? And I ask that in whole sincerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that Did the FOH appoint her or was she self appointed? She doesn't coin a wage but has interests at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 And.. if it was so easy to come in and strike a deal as a nice little earner for yourself with no risk and no effort, where were all the other bids to buy us out of administration? Don't tell me Ann Budge was the sole person in the business world who saw us for the sheep to be fleeced that we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Steady. You're not going to have a pop are you. She saved the club if I had a spare 690k I'd give her it myself. Steady. We saved the club, she vastly contributed and is now controlling all the affairs of what is a shambles at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford donald Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I beleive she does not take a wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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