Ann Budge update

[obua]

I wonder about that quite a lot. Usually when I read some of the comments on here. [emoji58]

Bringing the club out of admin is one thing, rebuilding the club and academy another, but then jumping almost straight into a major construction project as well? Must be bloody exhausting and so stressful - especially when a few banana skins appear at the same time.

I'd buy her a mojito for sure.

so would I,cheers

[Dagger Is Back]

i predict by the time Ann hands over control she hasn't taken a single penny out the club

 

I think you may well be proved right. I have a feeling that those bumping about ABs rate of return etc will be forced to eat some humble pie

[Beast Boy]

I think you may well be proved right. I have a feeling that those bumping about ABs rate of return etc will be forced to eat some humble pie

They won't though. They'll claim some utter pish about needing to provide a contrary viewpoint for the purposes of parity.

[Walter Kidd]

People questioning Ann Budge are stupid.

 

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[Beast Boy]

People questioning Ann Budge are stupid.

 

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They are providing a valuable service mate.

[Footballfirst]

FF I normally like your posts but when you look at some the paranoia or outright arseholery amongst us that has been displayed at the first signs of a setback or stalled progress we would have been a bigger mess than the bigoted pricks along the M8.

 

I was critical of the deal that FOH entered into with Ann from the outset, and I think I'm on record as saying that I would have preferred to have had Ann take ownership of the club privately, rather than this contrived and expensive path to fan ownership.

 

I was also against pushing ahead with the new stand development as we have. There is of course a counter argument that it was an one-off opportunity that we couldn't afford not to take. I see it more as a risky option to take, particularly when we didn't have full control over the final price.  I would have preferred to delay the build until we had more reserves and to take more time over the construction.  

 

The new stand will eventually pay its own way, but until it does I think the football side of the club will be compromised until that point is reached.  I believe that could easily be another five years before any residual stand debt and Ann's loan is repaid in full.

 

I think that some of the risks associated with Ann's plans have manifested themselves over the last few months, such as the on-field performance affecting income, and escalating costs for the stand.  We don't know the bottom line at the moment but I suspect that it will look a lot less rosy than it did a year ago.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

The insinuation that Budge is in it for the cash is embarrassing some people.

 

Stop please. I hate to see people make fools of themselves

[MacDonald Jardine]

This culture of 'find something to criticise' is a pain in the hoop tbh. Someone saves the club and facilitates us staying at Tynecastle and vastly improving our infrastructure... quick, desperately look for something nagative to offset it. Absolute oddball behaviour imo.

Well this is a step on from your last "LOL" response.

Does she deserve credit for saving the club? Yes.

Is the new stand a good thing? Yes.

Does that mean she can never be criticised? No.

 

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[CJGJ]

They are providing a valuable service mate.

Stupidity is a valuable service ?

[redm]

Yep. It's not exactly a little pin money job in the cake shop in the village. It's a high profile, high responsibility executive position.

 

She's made mistakes. She's perhaps dithered hither and thither. Sadly she's not been afforded much understanding.

There's no individual on the planet who wouldn't make a couple of mistakes here or there. Not one. Not in our situation, and definitely not with a football club. I just think it's nuts to brandish that as some sort of indication that we could've had it better. She has never once given us any tangible reason to doubt her commitment or her motives. Sometimes I still can't quite believe that they managed to talk her into it to begin with.

[Victorian]

The insinuation that Budge is in it for the cash is embarrassing some people.

 

Stop please. I hate to see people make fools of themselves

It's as near to unbelievable as it gets.

[Winston Ingram]

I was critical of the deal that FOH entered into with Ann from the outset, and I think I'm on record as saying that I would have preferred to have had Ann take ownership of the club privately, rather than this contrived and expensive path to fan ownership.

 

I was also against pushing ahead with the new stand development as we have. There is of course a counter argument that it was an one-off opportunity that we couldn't afford not to take. I see it more as a risky option to take, particularly when we didn't have full control over the final price. I would have preferred to delay the build until we had more reserves and to take more time over the construction.

 

The new stand will eventually pay its own way, but until it does I think the football side of the club will be compromised until that point is reached. I believe that could easily be another five years before any residual stand debt and Ann's loan is repaid in full.

 

I think that some of the risks associated with Ann's plans have manifested themselves over the last few months, such as the on-field performance affecting income, and escalating costs for the stand. We don't know the bottom line at the moment but I suspect that it will look a lot less rosy than it did a year ago.

If she had tried to buy the club privately, how do you think creditors would have acted in realisation of her personal wealth? Aside from the fact her entire involvement owed everything to being highly impressed with what the FoH offered. You were never getting one without the other.

[Bull's-eye]

Questioning Ann Budge

 

 

Give her ?1m a year out of the FOH coffers until she can't be arsed with the moronic minority in my opinion.

 

A lady who will be looked on as a legend and quite rightly so in years to come.

 

Questioning what she's already done in such a short space of time and using it as a stick to beat her with is about as ridiculous as it gets.

[Footballfirst]

5% return each year for six years gets you pretty close

She has had a 6% return from the original agreement, albeit she has granted a 24 month interest free period in the middle.

[132goals1958]

The insinuation that Budge is in it for the cash is embarrassing some people.

 

Stop please. I hate to see people make fools of themselves

 

 

It almost beggars belief. Some short memories on here.

[Victorian]

There's no individual on the planet who wouldn't make a couple of mistakes here or there. Not one. Not in our situation, and definitely not with a football club. I just think it's nuts to brandish that as some sort of indication that we could've had it better. She has never once given us any tangible reason to doubt her commitment or her motives. Sometimes I still can't quite believe that they managed to talk her into it to begin with.

Another yep. I suppose a comparison is in order. Stewart Milne has had his critics at Aberdeen. Farmer + Petrie have had their moments. Rangers? Say no more. Pieman.. Mercer.. not exactly flawless characters. The clangers go with the territory.

[Beast Boy]

Stupidity is a valuable service ?

I don't see it as "stupidity" to be honest. It ****s me right off, but it's not stupid people doing it. Churlish and obtuse nit-pickers, yes. Idiots? No.

[Independence]

In all honesty, since Budgement day onwards, I actually dislike many Hearts supporters more than Hibs fans. We have some utter belters in our support.

.....thats if they are Hearts fans and I think KB is full of H1b5 trolls. 

[Beast Boy]

Well this is a step on from your last "LOL" response.

Does she deserve credit for saving the club? Yes.

Is the new stand a good thing? Yes.

Does that mean she can never be criticised? No.

 

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She should be criticised when she actually does something worth criticism. Not as a sport because some people are so myopic or contrary that they can't bear not having something to moan about.

[Beast Boy]

.....thats if they are Hearts fans and I think KB is full of H1b5 trolls.

Some of them are 100% Hearts supporters. Sad but true.

[Independence]

Questioning Ann Budge

 

 

Give her ?1m a year out of the FOH coffers until she can't be arsed with the moronic minority in my opinion.

 

A lady who will be looked on as a legend and quite rightly so in years to come.

 

Questioning what she's already done in such a short space of time and using it as a stick to beat her with is about as ridiculous as it gets.

Achievements have been huge and we are in a far better place than I could have dreamt of a few years ago. Hearts fans know this others....want to bring us down. They're doing a goodish job but they are easy to identify!

[Independence]

Some of them are 100% Hearts supporters. Sad but true.

Im sorry I just can't believe that.

[Footballfirst]

If she had tried to buy the club privately, how do you think creditors would have acted in realisation of her personal wealth? Aside from the fact her entire involvement owed everything to being highly impressed with what the FoH offered. You were never getting one without the other.

The creditors would have acted exactly the same way as they did.  The only creditors that mattered were Ukio's and UBIG's administrators because of the amount of debt they held.

 

You are correct that we were never getting one without the other, which kind of gets to the main thrust of my argument.  Saving the club, rebuilding its finances and now the fabric of the club, are more down to the fans contributions through FOH and ticket sales than any individual's contribution, including Ann who I believe has been, or will be, well rewarded over the piece.   

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

.....thats if they are Hearts fans and I think KB is full of H1b5 trolls.

And yet you never name a single one of these trolls.

[Beast Boy]

Im sorry I just can't believe that.

It's true. Sadly.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The creditors would have acted exactly the same way as they did. The only creditors that mattered were Ukio's and UBIG's administrators because of the amount of debt they held.

 

You are correct that we were never getting one without the other, which kind of gets to the main thrust of my argument. Saving the club, rebuilding its finances and now the fabric are more down to the fans contributions through FOH and ticket sales than any individual's contribution, including Ann who I believe has been, or will be, well rewarded over the piece.

The point Winston is making, too subtly, is that Ann deliberately wanted to be seen as part of a partnership with FoH so that the fan support was the primary focus for her bid, not her. It meant she wasn't being directly compared to Massone for example.

 

It was a good deal for her. It was a better deal for us as we came out of admin intact. I don't put a price on that.

[Son Of Anarchy]

Well this is a step on from your last "LOL" response.

Does she deserve credit for saving the club? Yes.

Is the new stand a good thing? Yes.

Does that mean she can never be criticised? No.

 

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Who said she can never be criticised? I keep seeing this said but have never seen it quoted.

[Winston Ingram]

The creditors would have acted exactly the same way as they did. The only creditors that mattered were Ukio's and UBIG's administrators because of the amount of debt they held.

 

You are correct that we were never getting one without the other, which kind of gets to the main thrust of my argument. Saving the club, rebuilding its finances and now the fabric of the club, are more down to the fans contributions through FOH and ticket sales than any individual's contribution, including Ann who I believe has been, or will be, well rewarded over the piece.

Sorry, did the fans/anyone else stump up the necessary ?2.5+ to spare us liquidation?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Sorry, did the fans/anyone else stump up the necessary ?2.5+ to spare us liquidation?

Of course not. Ann's bid differentiated itself from the likes of Massone, thankfully, because of the FoH partnership. Bryan Jackson was also our hero in this matter, seeing through a charlatan like Massone.

[Winston Ingram]

Of course not. Ann's bid differentiated itself from the likes of Massone, thankfully, because of the FoH partnership. Bryan Jackson was also our hero in this matter, seeing through a charlatan like Massone.

Point is, FF's statement re "saving the club" being more down to general fans is totally incorrect. We needed someone to stump up a serious capital sum. Only Ann Budge did. Without that, we were toast.

[Footballfirst]

The point Winston is making, too subtly, is that Ann deliberately wanted to be seen as part of a partnership with FoH so that the fan support was the primary focus for her bid, not her. It meant she wasn't being directly compared to Massone for example.

 

It was a good deal for her. It was a better deal for us as we came out of admin intact. I don't put a price on that.

I'm well aware of the early interest from Massone, Bob Jamieson, Pat the plumber etc., and you are correct to point to the advantages of Ann's FOH support in the final outcome.  It is worthy of note that FOH was actually given preferred bidder status in August 2013.  It was February 2011 before Ann's backing was confirmed.

 

Of course it is a better deal for the fans because they still have a club to support, but Ann's initial investment of ?2.5m was still dwarfed by the fans initial ?6.3m commitment.

 

Anyway, I need a time-out from this thread.  I'm sure it will be revisited at some point in the future.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Getting off admin for a moment, I actually feel a little sorry for her at present as her executive team have been a massive let down over the past year. First, Levein screws up with Cathro, sending us backwards at a massive rate of knows. Then Gardiner leaves, allegedly after screwing up a seat order. She feels the backlash of that as the big boss.

[Bull's-eye]

I'm well aware of the early interest from Massone, Bob Jamieson, Pat the plumber etc., and you are correct to point to the advantages of Ann's FOH support in the final outcome. It is worthy of note that FOH was actually given preferred bidder status in August 2013. It was February 2011 before Ann's backing was confirmed.

 

Of course it is a better deal for the fans because they still have a club to support, but Ann's initial investment of ?2.5m was still dwarfed by the fans initial ?6.3m commitment.

 

Anyway, I need a time-out from this thread. I'm sure it will be revisited at some point in the future.

Your an odd character, one I don't trust.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm well aware of the early interest from Massone, Bob Jamieson, Pat the plumber etc., and you are correct to point to the advantages of Ann's FOH support in the final outcome. It is worthy of note that FOH was actually given preferred bidder status in August 2013. It was February 2011 before Ann's backing was confirmed.

 

Of course it is a better deal for the fans because they still have a club to support, but Ann's initial investment of ?2.5m was still dwarfed by the fans initial ?6.3m commitment.

 

Anyway, I need a time-out from this thread. I'm sure it will be revisited at some point in the future.

I've no argument on the numbers. The point is that the emotional investment of HMFC still existing and owning Tynecastle is a value equation 99% of us would agree to every time.

[Winston Ingram]

I'm well aware of the early interest from Massone, Bob Jamieson, Pat the plumber etc., and you are correct to point to the advantages of Ann's FOH support in the final outcome. It is worthy of note that FOH was actually given preferred bidder status in August 2013. It was February 2011 before Ann's backing was confirmed.

 

Of course it is a better deal for the fans because they still have a club to support, but Ann's initial investment of ?2.5m was still dwarfed by the fans initial ?6.3m commitment.

 

Anyway, I need a time-out from this thread. I'm sure it will be revisited at some point in the future.

Her backing wasn't confirmed for very reason I stated earlier. Fear it would completely screw up creditor demands.

[graygo]

I was critical of the deal that FOH entered into with Ann from the outset, and I think I'm on record as saying that I would have preferred to have had Ann take ownership of the club privately, rather than this contrived and expensive path to fan ownership.

 

I was also against pushing ahead with the new stand development as we have. There is of course a counter argument that it was an one-off opportunity that we couldn't afford not to take. I see it more as a risky option to take, particularly when we didn't have full control over the final price.  I would have preferred to delay the build until we had more reserves and to take more time over the construction.  

 

The new stand will eventually pay its own way, but until it does I think the football side of the club will be compromised until that point is reached.  I believe that could easily be another five years before any residual stand debt and Ann's loan is repaid in full.

 

I think that some of the risks associated with Ann's plans have manifested themselves over the last few months, such as the on-field performance affecting income, and escalating costs for the stand.  We don't know the bottom line at the moment but I suspect that it will look a lot less rosy than it did a year ago.

 

Is it not the case that the council's plan to upgrade the nursery meant that it was now or never?

[Beast Boy]

Is it not the case that the council's plan to upgrade the nursery meant that it was now or never?

That's what Thomaso assures us.

[132goals1958]

I'm well aware of the early interest from Massone, Bob Jamieson, Pat the plumber etc., and you are correct to point to the advantages of Ann's FOH support in the final outcome.  It is worthy of note that FOH was actually given preferred bidder status in August 2013.  It was February 2011 before Ann's backing was confirmed.

 

Of course it is a better deal for the fans because they still have a club to support, but Ann's initial investment of ?2.5m was still dwarfed by the fans initial ?6.3m commitment.

 

Anyway, I need a time-out from this thread.  I'm sure it will be revisited at some point in the future.

 

 

I prefer to perceive her major investment as a welcome opportunity for me and thousands of others to contribute an affordable amount to save our club,and take it forward. 

[Beast Boy]

I prefer to perceive her major investment as a welcome opportunity for me and thousands of others to contribute an affordable amount to save our club,and take it forward.

It comes down to passion. Passion is not something that can be measured on an excel file though.

[Des Lynam]

I was critical of the deal that FOH entered into with Ann from the outset, and I think I'm on record as saying that I would have preferred to have had Ann take ownership of the club privately, rather than this contrived and expensive path to fan ownership.

 

I was also against pushing ahead with the new stand development as we have. There is of course a counter argument that it was an one-off opportunity that we couldn't afford not to take. I see it more as a risky option to take, particularly when we didn't have full control over the final price. I would have preferred to delay the build until we had more reserves and to take more time over the construction.

 

The new stand will eventually pay its own way, but until it does I think the football side of the club will be compromised until that point is reached. I believe that could easily be another five years before any residual stand debt and Ann's loan is repaid in full.

 

I think that some of the risks associated with Ann's plans have manifested themselves over the last few months, such as the on-field performance affecting income, and escalating costs for the stand. We don't know the bottom line at the moment but I suspect that it will look a lot less rosy than it did a year ago.

 

In amongst all your wonderful ideas and hindsight why didn't you just put up the ?2.4m and just lead us all to the promised land?

[obua]

That's what Thomaso assures us.

Its fact that's why nursery is in wheat field car park .Hearts had to do a deal with council.

[Beast Boy]

Its fact that's why nursery is in wheat field car park .Hearts had to do a deal with council.

I don't doubt it for a second.

[BelgeJambo]

Total Respect for AB

We should never doubt her loyalty and commitment to our great club

[dallan]

Ann was at the front of a very short queue with her 'Actual' ?2.4m when we were in very deep doodoo....

 

I will always be incredibly grateful.

[mitch41]

Whether fans support Levein, the role he has or both, one thing is certain it limits the club's chances in appointing a decent experienced manager

Very true he will stop real quality managers applying for the job.

[Winston Ingram]

Very true he will stop real quality managers applying for the job.

Total guesswork.

 

Any prohibitive factor for "real quality managers" relates to another thing... Money.

[hueyview]

Ann's Investments

?2,400,000 loan to finance the CVA

?100,000 to purchase the UBIG shares

?19,000 to purchase the Quantum shares

?300,000 interest free period on the loan

 

What Ann will take back from the club

?472,000 professional fees - Paid

?110,000 loan arrangement fee - Paid

?24,000 loan interest 2013/2014 - Paid

?172,000 loan interest 2014/15 - Paid

?3,750 Bidco's audit fees 2014/15 - Paid

?159,500 loan interest 2015/16 - Paid

?4,000 Bidco's audit fees 2015/16 - Paid

?300,000 future loan interest during the loan repayment period

?100,000 future share purchase for 75.1% of the club

?2,400,000 future loan repayment

 

Ann's legacy

Ownership of 17.4% of the club's shares for a net outlay of ?19,000

 

Ann has not taken a salary from the club, but her legacy will ensure that she will be well rewarded for her investment.

Wow.... That's interesting..

[CJGJ]

In amongst all your wonderful ideas and hindsight why didn't you just put up the ?2.4m and just lead us all to the promised land?

FF knows there was no other show in town and without Ann FOH would not have been able to garner the funds to complete any takeover.

 

He ignores this point as it does not suit his viewpoint that somehow, somewhere there was another party coming over the hill to rescue us..he lives, in this matter, in a fantasy land where money should just be handed over without any checks and balances.

 

Daring to get a return on an investment is a dirty phrase for him and some who think money does still grow on trees.

 

He'll never tell you where the money was to come from had Ann not 'put up rather than shut up'

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Very true he will stop real quality managers applying for the job.

Post bookmarked.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I think others (particularly Hendricks) have done a fine job in laying out problems with the way the club has been managed, particularly over the last 12-14 months or so. I will agree with those.

 

A big reason I am willing to defend Ann to the hilt on much of her work is that I think her style of management and the system she's set up provides a counterbalance to the haphazard thrashing around that seems to be the SOP for much of the footballing world.

 

Firing managers often and full clearing out squads, as many fans demanded we do over the summer, costs a lot of money.  If you can avoid it and can build up a base of good players rather than constantly turning them over in search of better ones, and keep managers for multiple years on end, it's considerably cheaper.  Aberdeen have done this very well -- starting with Brown's last year they bought sensibly and then kept hold of those players as long as they could.

 

I don't think the philosophy underlying the way the club has been run has been just Levein. Certainly he is the architect and the strategist but I get the strong sense that he's there because Budge strongly prefers the "steady-as-she-goes" approach, with Vlad's "off-with-their-heads" approach being the obvious opposite extreme.

 

As such, the club's current management are far out of their comfort zone right now.  Accelerated stand building schedules, gutting and rebuilding the squad, firing the COO, and now being forced to sack the young prodigal coach because he was so bad that no amount of "steady-as-she-goes" could justify keeping him.  This is not how they want to run the club, it is quite obvious. I think this is why Ann is pushing Levein so hard to get a steady hand in the door -- so she can not worry about the footballing side for a while.

 

So we're not in a great state at the moment, but we're far from derelict. Regardless of the Cathro disaster, this summer's signings are very good by any standard. We need to find some creative offensive players, whether by reanimating the corpse of Jamie Walker or by another signing, but we're not far off of being a pretty good Hearts side either.  And I'll take Budge's management style over the headless chicken style employed at many clubs any day.