Come on Ann get Cathro sacked ( merged )

[Peebo]

We all wanted it to work. When cathro was getting a pasting from the Scottish dinosaurs we all rallied around him and were desperate for him to succeed. There has been no improvement,nothing has changed. Why should we allow him to ruin two seasons instead of just one?

 

Also lets not forget Levein. The whole idea of his role is that we have continuity when we change managers, well that has been a complete and utter disaster. The January transfer window was a total joke and goes against everything that we are supposed to be building for.

 

We are into year 4 now and we are going backwards.

This sums up where I am at.

[Marooned in Sec Z]

Our best season in the top league was 85/86. Take a look at the first few games of that season if you're not old enough to have seen them. Literally no-one though we would be anywhere near challenging for the title! And that was with a relatively inexperienced manager too. Amazing how things can change in football. That's why I backed Neilson to turn things around. he did much better than Doddie in his first couple of seasons as a manager. I back Cathro but have less confidence in him as he really hasn't;t shown he is capable of being a head coach (although we are told be people who have worked with him that he is a very good coach).

 

I'm willing to give him time this season but my opinion right now is he has the look of a very reliable and useful No. 2, like a Steve Clark or Eric Black type, rather than a leader of a team. He doesn't;t look comfortable in the No. 1 position to me, unlike someone like Neilson who took to it very quickly and seemed to have more confidence. I think that does rub off on players, which could be the problem with Cathro just now - he doesn't inspire confidence in fans or players. He is still learning so let's see..

 

I was there, only 10 at the time but was at every game that season with the auld man. But you seriously cant base what happened then as reason to stick by Cathro.

 

You've just totally contradicted yourself in this post anyway. You're happy to allow him time but then go on to say that you don't think he's capable of being a head coach and would be a good number 2. What makes you so confident that he will change your opinion given time? What have you seen since he's been here that makes you think he will become a good head coach?

 

He's had plenty of time to show some sort of positive progress that us fans can at least see what he's aiming to achieve.

[Hendricks]

In any walk of life you do a poor job and you get criticised.. It's a fact of life.. He should resign.

Cathro doesn't even realise it was a horrendous result! He has no idea it's our worst domestic result in over 3 decades! This is part of the problem, there is little passion or understanding for what the bare minimum the support will accept is. We all know Hearts are going to lose and lose regularly but it's the manner of many of the defeats in his tenure and sadly no lessons are being learned. The tippy tappy, slow, methodical crap we have had to endure is not working and won't work with the limited squad we have. We need to play with way more aggression and right from the start of games, not feeling our way in and keeping possession aimlessly.

 

We have changed plenty players (in fact Jamie Walker is the only player to start the 2 replay defeats to Hibs, the Birkarkara game and at Peterhead) but the malaise continues because there is something very wrong with how the first team is being run. They are not motivated or driven and there is no presence in that dressing room so the vast majority go trough the motions. It's a damning assessment of a lot of the players too but the buck stops with the Head Coach and his boss and I have no doubt a young JJ or similar would be getting so much more out of the current squad.

[socrates82]

We all wanted it to work. When cathro was getting a pasting from the Scottish dinosaurs we all rallied around him and were desperate for him to succeed. There has been no improvement,nothing has changed. Why should we allow him to ruin two seasons instead of just one?

 

Also lets not forget Levein. The whole idea of his role is that we have continuity when we change managers, well that has been a complete and utter disaster. The January transfer window was a total joke and goes against everything that we are supposed to be building for.

 

We are into year 4 now and we are going backwards.

 

The January window was a major disaster and the main blot on Levein's record the last few years IMO. No idea why he sanctioned that much change at that time. Trying to meet high fan expectations maybe as there were a lot of grumbles from fans at that time about the squad?

 

He should have told Cathro to ease himself in and not change so much to try to build on where Neilson had us in the league. He could have mentored him closely for a while too. In fairness, losing Paterson and the fact that the only way was down really, given we were in 2nd when he took over, meant it was a big ask to improve our position. However, if we had stuck with most of that squad, Cathro at least would have had that excuse and might have been given more leeway by the more excitable supporters for this season with his own team.

[socrates82]

I was there, only 10 at the time but was at every game that season with the auld man. But you seriously cant base what happened then as reason to stick by Cathro.

 

You've just totally contradicted yourself in this post anyway. You're happy to allow him time but then go on to say that you don't think he's capable of being a head coach and would be a good number 2. What makes you so confident that he will change your opinion given time? What have you seen since he's been here that makes you think he will become a good head coach?

 

He's had plenty of time to show some sort of positive progress that us fans can at least see what he's aiming to achieve.

 

I'm just basing on what I've seen but I want to see more, given that we have some better players in the team now, that's all. I personally don't think he has it to be a successful head coach based on what I've seen but I want to be proved wrong.

[kingantti1874]

Cathro doesn't even realise it was a horrendous result! He has no idea it's our worst domestic result in over 3 decades! This is part of the problem, there is little passion or understanding for what the bare minimum the support will accept is. We all know Hearts are going to lose and lose regularly but it's the manner of many of the defeats in his tenure and sadly no lessons are being learned. The tippy tappy, slow, methodical crap we have had to endure is not working and won't work with the limited squad we have. We need to play with way more aggression and right from the start of games, not feeling our way in and keeping possession aimlessly.

 

We have changed plenty players (in fact Jamie Walker is the only player to start the 2 replay defeats to Hibs, the Birkarkara game and at Peterhead) but the malaise continues because there is something very wrong with how the first team is being run. They are not motivated or driven and there is no presence in that dressing room so the vast majority go trough the motions. It's a damning assessment of a lot of the players too but the buck stops with the Head Coach and his boss and I have no doubt a young JJ or similar would be getting so much more out of the current squad.

Well put

[Lucille's Thirsty]

The January window was a major disaster and the main blot on Levein's record the last few years IMO. No idea why he sanctioned that much change at that time. Trying to meet high fan expectations maybe as there were a lot of grumbles from fans at that time about the squad?

 

He should have told Cathro to ease himself in and not change so much to try to build on where Neilson had us in the league. He could have mentored him closely for a while too. In fairness, losing Paterson and the fact that the only way was down really, given we were in 2nd when he took over, meant it was a big ask to improve our position. However, if we had stuck with most of that squad, Cathro at least would have had that excuse and might have been given more leeway by the more excitable supporters for this season with his own team.

I know Cathro wanted his own players, he could've kept Robbie's squad and had a comfort blanket in which if he had a bad run which he did go on to have. He could've just said it's not my squad it's Robbie's and we wouldn't have been so judgemental.

 

I always thought he should've waited till this very summer before he did his business.

[kingantti1874]

The January window was a major disaster and the main blot on Levein's record the last few years IMO. No idea why he sanctioned that much change at that time. Trying to meet high fan expectations maybe as there were a lot of grumbles from fans at that time about the squad?

 

He should have told Cathro to ease himself in and not change so much to try to build on where Neilson had us in the league. He could have mentored him closely for a while too. In fairness, losing Paterson and the fact that the only way was down really, given we were in 2nd when he took over, meant it was a big ask to improve our position. However, if we had stuck with most of that squad, Cathro at least would have had that excuse and might have been given more leeway by the more excitable supporters for this season with his own team.

Regarding the January transfer window.. Was it? I've said it a hundred time but that squad was far far better than the results on the pitch.. The players were not to root cause of the problem.. I've no doubt with a better manager results would have been far better and some (and I mean some) of those players would be viewed differently

[socrates82]

Cathro doesn't even realise it was a horrendous result! He has no idea it's our worst domestic result in over 3 decades! This is part of the problem, there is little passion or understanding for what the bare minimum the support will accept is. We all know Hearts are going to lose and lose regularly but it's the manner of many of the defeats in his tenure and sadly no lessons are being learned. The tippy tappy, slow, methodical crap we have had to endure is not working and won't work with the limited squad we have. We need to play with way more aggression and right from the start of games, not feeling our way in and keeping possession aimlessly.

 

We have changed plenty players (in fact Jamie Walker is the only player to start the 2 replay defeats to Hibs, the Birkarkara game and at Peterhead) but the malaise continues because there is something very wrong with how the first team is being run. They are not motivated or driven and there is no presence in that dressing room so the vast majority go trough the motions. It's a damning assessment of a lot of the players too but the buck stops with the Head Coach and his boss and I have no doubt a young JJ or similar would be getting so much more out of the current squad.

 

Sorry, but that's just hyperbole. A young, or younger, JJ got cuffed 6-2 in the league by Hibs. A much, much worse result than 2-1 away vs Peterhead in the LC in July. And I'm speaking as a massive JJ fan!

 

As for terrible results:

 

6-2 vs St Mirren

4-0 and 6-0 vs Falkirk

7-0 vs Celtic

Any number of cup defeats against lower league opposition, Airdrie a couple of times stands out

 

It was bad but in context not the worst in 30 years by a long way. 

[socrates82]

I know Cathro wanted his own players, he could've kept Robbie's squad and had a comfort blanket in which if he had a bad run which he did go on to have. He could've just said it's not my squad it's Robbie's and we wouldn't have been so judgemental.

 

I always thought he should've waited till this very summer before he did his business.

 

Me too. Think he wanted to make a statement of intent and prove the media wrong. Levein's job should have been to mentor him a bit more IMO.

[socrates82]

Regarding the January transfer window.. Was it? I've said it a hundred time but that squad was far far better than the results on the pitch.. The players were not to root cause of the problem.. I've no doubt with a better manager results would have been far better and some (and I mean some) of those players would be viewed differently

 

So many short term signings like that and so much change at that time was recipe for disaster.

[Walter Bishop]

Surely there aren't people still wanting to "give him a chance"?

 

[Hendricks]

Sorry, but that's just hyperbole. A young, or younger, JJ got cuffed 6-2 in the league by Hibs. A much, much worse result than 2-1 away vs Peterhead in the LC in July. And I'm speaking as a massive JJ fan!

 

As for terrible results:

 

6-2 vs St Mirren

4-0 and 6-0 vs Falkirk

7-0 vs Celtic

Any number of cup defeats against lower league opposition, Airdrie a couple of times stands out

 

It was bad but in context not the worst in 30 years by a long way.

Two completely different arguments.

 

I'm talking about the worst defeat in terms of the standard of the opposition and the gulf between the clubs. It's easily the worst since the early to mid 80's in that regard.

 

Most painful, most horrific to stomach or get over, most costly in terms of silverware etc no but easily the most shameful in terms of who it was against and the ludicrous gulf in resources, budget, player pool etc.

[kingantti1874]

Sorry, but that's just hyperbole. A young, or younger, JJ got cuffed 6-2 in the league by Hibs. A much, much worse result than 2-1 away vs Peterhead in the LC in July. And I'm speaking as a massive JJ fan!

 

As for terrible results:

 

6-2 vs St Mirren

4-0 and 6-0 vs Falkirk

7-0 vs Celtic

Any number of cup defeats against lower league opposition, Airdrie a couple of times stands out

 

It was bad but in context not the worst in 30 years by a long way.

LOL.. Cathro has nearly in 7 short months delivered performances and match to match all of those

 

The pumping by hibs was worse than 6-2 we were easily worse

We're it not for a couple of bad refereeing deceits we'd have been done for 7.. At least Locke had the excuse of a team of Inexperienced kids

 

6-0 by Falkirk the players were virtually on strike..

We could easily have been beaten..

 

4-0 by Falkirk was not worse than losing to part time Peterhead..

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Me too. Think he wanted to make a statement of intent and prove the media wrong. Levein's job should have been to mentor him a bit more IMO.

Yeah.

 

Levein should've mentored him better,he should've done all he could to keep the fans off Cathro back.

 

That January was just so rushed. Ozturk and Rossi are two examples of the players binned that I thought should've stayed.

[socrates82]

Surely there aren't people still wanting to "give him a chance"?

 

 

Surely there aren't people who really think he'll be sacked after this result after being allowed to sign a new team?

[socrates82]

LOL.. Cathro has nearly in 7 short months delivered performances and match to match all of those

 

The pumping by hibs was worse than 6-2 we were easily worse

We're it not for a couple of bad refereeing deceits we'd have been done for 7.. At least Locke had the excuse of a team of Inexperienced kids

 

6-0 by Falkirk the players were virtually on strike..

We could easily have been beaten..

 

4-0 by Falkirk was not worse than losing to part time Peterhead..

 

Peterhead was nowhere near our worst result in 30 years. That's barmy. Losing 3-2 to St Mirren in the cup final the way we did after being in control was worse. Losing 2-0 to Dundee on the last day in 86 was worse.

[kingantti1874]

So many short term signings like that and so much change at that time was recipe for disaster.

We done it before.. Better manager would have delivered a better outcome.. You honestly think if McInnes was our managwr we'd be having this discussion tonight?

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Surely there aren't people still wanting to "give him a chance"?

 

There are Walter.

[kingantti1874]

Peterhead was nowhere near our worst result in 30 years. That's barmy.

Top 5

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Sorry, but that's just hyperbole. A young, or younger, JJ got cuffed 6-2 in the league by Hibs. A much, much worse result than 2-1 away vs Peterhead in the LC in July. And I'm speaking as a massive JJ fan!

 

As for terrible results:

 

6-2 vs St Mirren

4-0 and 6-0 vs Falkirk

7-0 vs Celtic

Any number of cup defeats against lower league opposition, Airdrie a couple of times stands out

 

It was bad but in context not the worst in 30 years by a long way.

Young or younger JJ? WTF? By the year 2000 he'd been in management for 10 years!

 

Laughable stuff as ever!

[socrates82]

Young or younger JJ? WTF? By the year 2000 he'd been in management for 10 years!

 

Laughable stuff as ever!

 

So he wasn't younger than he is now? And surely that just makes that result worse in the context of our discussion?

[socrates82]

Top 5

 

If it was a knock-out stage of a cup I'd agree. My main worry about Cathro is he seems to be prioritising perfecting a style of play and system over getting results, but I do think if that was a knock-out game we'd have approached it differently and probably horsed Peterhead.

[Peebo]

Yeah.

 

Levein should've mentored him better,he should've done all he could to keep the fans off Cathro back.

 

That January was just so rushed. Ozturk and Rossi are two examples of the players binned that I thought should've stayed.

Correct. Two mainstays of a very solid defence disposed of, with inadequate, and short-term replacements brought in their place.

[Notts1874]

Top 5

The fact I need to think about that shows it was up there even if it wasn't in the top 5.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Correct. Two mainstays of a very solid defence disposed of, with inadequate, and short-term replacements brought in their place.

That is precisely the reason that Cathro is not competent.

 

Wtf made him think that this was a good idea.

[socrates82]

We done it before.. Better manager would have delivered a better outcome.. You honestly think if McInnes was our managwr we'd be having this discussion tonight?

 

Probably not but who knows. McInnes's Aberdeen team got owned by Gary Locke and our band of teenagers in the relegation season!

[kingantti1874]

The fact I need to think about that shows it was up there even if it wasn't in the top 5.

Close enough mate.. I think we can all agree it was up there with our biggest embarrassments

[kingantti1874]

Probably not but who knows. McInnes's Aberdeen team got owned by Gary Locke and our band of teenagers in the relegation season!

Gary Locke is a better manager than Cathro

[Peebo]

That is precisely the reason that Cathro is not competent.

 

Wtf made him think that this was a good idea.

While I agree he is not competent, I'm not convinced he'll have had much say in Ozturk's departure, at least. He was already on Levein's naughty list before Neilson had left.

[Ivan Drago]

Probably not but who knows. McInnes's Aberdeen team got owned by Gary Locke and our band of teenagers in the relegation season!

They finished third that season, don't think they'd be too upset that they dropped points against us in the grand scheme of things

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So he wasn't younger than he is now? And surely that just makes that result worse in the context of our discussion?

 

You are referencing young or younger to Cathro. And without doubt it was the nadir of JJ's tenure. However, as sickening as that result was, that vermin team was flying near the top of the league and deservedly ripped us a new one that night. Peterhead, by contrast, are part timers playing in the bottom tier of Scottish football.

 

I'll draw a contrast to ye olde Rangers. In Martin O'Neill's first derby, Septic took them apart 6-2. What lives more in ignominy for them? That game or the Berwick Rangers cup defeat in 1967?

[socrates82]

That is precisely the reason that Cathro is not competent.

 

Wtf made him think that this was a good idea.

 

 I think Rossi had a clause that meant we had no choice. It sounded that way I think and someone on here seemed to confirm it. Ozturk was a weird one. He had been dropped by Neilson already though.

 

We did fail to sign experienced defenders under Neilson. To his credit Cathro has rectified that.

[socrates82]

Gary Locke is a better manager than Cathro

 

On the evidence so far I'd agree.

[socrates82]

They finished third that season, don't think they'd be too upset that they dropped points against us in the grand scheme of things

 

In the grand scheme of things we're still in the LC.

[Notts1874]

Close enough mate.. I think we can all agree it was up there with our biggest embarrassments

I started going to games in the mid 70's so ive seen plenty shite at Tynecastle.

 

I was delighted if we beat Dumbarton....but aye Peterhead is up there.

[Peebo]

I think Rossi had a clause that meant we had no choice. It sounded that way I think and someone on here seemed to confirm it. Ozturk was a weird one. He had been dropped by Neilson already though.

 

We did fail to sign experienced defenders under Neilson. To his credit Cathro has rectified that.

What sort of clause? I've seen various theories justifying the sale of Rossi, such as a big transfer fee, but considering the Saudi team initially signed him on a contract of only a few months, in struggling to understand just why we had to get rid of one of our most consistent players.

[socrates82]

You are referencing young or younger to Cathro. And without doubt it was the nadir of JJ's tenure. However, as sickening as that result was, that vermin team was flying near the top of the league and deservedly ripped us a new one that night. Peterhead, by contrast, are part timers playing in the bottom tier of Scottish football.

 

I'll draw a contrast to ye olde Rangers. In Martin O'Neill's first derby, Septic took them apart 6-2. What lives more in ignominy for them? That game or the Berwick Rangers cup defeat in 1967?

 

No was replying to someone else. I'm pretty sure a hammering from your rivals is worse than the kind of shock defeat to lower league opposition that happens to every team at some point but that's just me. I think the 3-1 loss to Hibs last season was worse than the Peterhead result because it was a derby and it put us out the cup. With Peterhead we're still in the cup so it's a hugely embarrassing result more than anything else.

 

I said earlier in the thread or maybe another one that I don't like this whole "perfecting a system or style of play" thing Cathro seems to be obsessed with but that is his reputation as a deep thinker about the game. I think he approached the Peterhead game that way instead of as a must-win cup game. That's why I want to see if he can succeed at it because he's so different and Scottish football is largely boring and unimaginative most of the time.

[socrates82]

What sort of clause? I've seen various theories justifying the sale of Rossi, such as a big transfer fee, but considering the Saudi team initially signed him on a contract of only a few months, in struggling to understand just why we had to get rid of one of our most consistent players.

 

I'm with you. No idea. From Rossi's and the club's comments it seems it was all his decision and Hearts hands were tied. That suggests a clause being activated to me, bit like how the Cummings transfer was supposed to have gone down.

[Peebo]

I'm with you. No idea. From Rossi's comments it seems it was all his decision.

Yes, and one we were apparently happen to accommodate, for some baffling reason.

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

I'm 30, been watching hearts since 92, been a season ticket holder for years. I can't recall being beaten by a third division team in a competitive fixture & there have been some very average hearts teams in that period. People can bleat on about a performance against auchinleck talbot all they want-facts are facts and we WON that game and we WON that cup.

[martoon]

We should come out all guns blazing on Saturday, take the game by the throat and impose ourselves on Dunfermline but I fear we won't. The fearful, timid, easing ourselves into games approach has gone on long enough. One game was too many. It's as if we don't want to attack teams with any great urgency or pace in case, horror of horrors, we provoke our opponents into a game of football.

 

I've backed Cathro but no longer. His and, latterly, Neilson's approach to games is driving me feckin nuts. I suspect Cathro would love a change to 6x15 minute sections to aid his ridiculously cautious game management tactics.

 

Football's simple. Sign the best players you can, pick the best team available and attack/score goals. Not suggesting a reckless, gung-ho 1950's approach, of course not, but we seem intent in making a simple game complicated.

 

The most frustrating thing of all is that we're only a few good decisions away from getting back on track and heading in the right direction.

 

Without those decisions, though, nothing will change.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No was replying to someone else. I'm pretty sure a hammering from your rivals is worse than the kind of shock defeat to lower league opposition that happens to every team at some point but that's just me. I think the 3-1 loss to Hibs last season was worse than the Peterhead result because it was a derby and it put us out the cup. With Peterhead we're still in the cup so it's a hugely embarrassing result more than anything else.

 

I said earlier in the thread or maybe another one that I don't like this whole "perfecting a system or style of play" thing Cathro seems to be obsessed with but that is his reputation as a deep thinker about the game. That's why I want to see if he can succeed at it because he's so different and Scottish football is largely boring and unimaginative most of the time.

 

A writer like John Fairgrieve suggested Tynecastle be turned into a car park after we lost to Forfar in 1982. Other horrendous results have been picked out such as Montrose in 1987. In a few years, that vermin defeat from last year won't be recalled at all. This defeat will be. That's the difference.

[socrates82]

I'm 30, been watching hearts since 92, been a season ticket holder for years. I can't recall being beaten by a third division team in a competitive fixture & there have been some very average hearts teams in that period. People can bleat on about a performance against auchinleck talbot all they want-facts are facts and we WON that game and we WON that cup.

 

We might still win the LC, that's the point. It wasn't a hammer blow of a result, just a pathetic, embarrassing one.

[Hendricks]

Is the Peterhead result as gut wrenching or as difficult to get over as Dens or Henry's nightmare against Celtic in 88 or the numerous semi final disasters or losing 6-2 to Hibs or 3-0 to them at Tynecastle or the pitiful replay defeats of recent seasons or 7-0 to Celtic......no of course not. These (and many others) were more meaningful and consequential.

 

But.....

 

Is the Peterhead the worst result since the mid to early 80's in terms of level of opposition abso****inglutely. No Hearts team in that period has lost to a poorer team than Peterhead. The gulf is enormous in every single respect. It was a disgraceful result. And it was on Cathro's watch, another fact to add to his brutal record with us. So whilst we have all witnessed far worse results in terms of what it meant to us this was by far the worst defeat in over 3 decades in terms of level of opponents.

[Markymark]

Seriously I couldn't care less about last season. I do wipe the slate clean every new season for players and managers because it's amazing how things can change. And so far we've played 3 and won 2 and are still in every competition we've entered. So I'm fine with that at the same time as considering the Peterhead result an embarrassment for a team with our quality in it.

Won 2 out of 3. Let's look at performances. Scraped past a league 2 team with one of the worst defensive records last season 1-0, huffed and puffed against a very poor East Fife side and a defeat of Peterhead. A team humped 5-1 by a team a league below us. You are unbelievable !! Surely you cannot still support Ian Cathro. Absolute loser mentality some of the garbage you spout!

[Markymark]

No was replying to someone else. I'm pretty sure a hammering from your rivals is worse than the kind of shock defeat to lower league opposition that happens to every team at some point but that's just me. I think the 3-1 loss to Hibs last season was worse than the Peterhead result because it was a derby and it put us out the cup. With Peterhead we're still in the cup so it's a hugely embarrassing result more than anything else.

 

I said earlier in the thread or maybe another one that I don't like this whole "perfecting a system or style of play" thing Cathro seems to be obsessed with but that is his reputation as a deep thinker about the game. I think he approached the Peterhead game that way instead of as a must-win cup game. That's why I want to see if he can succeed at it because he's so different and Scottish football is largely boring and unimaginative most of the time.

How long do you give ? He is ruining our club with his obsession and arrogance. It's fine though as he's a breath of fresh idea with his ideas.....

[Hendricks]

Won 2 out of 3. Let's look at performances. Scraped past a league 2 team with one of the worst defensive records last season 1-0, huffed and puffed against a very poor East Fife side and a defeat of Peterhead. A team humped 5-1 by a team a league below us. You are unbelievable !! Surely you cannot still support Ian Cathro. Absolute loser mentality some of the garbage you spout!

No point in debating with him. Only when we start to lose league games after another underwhelming and disorganised close season will he wake up and accept the inevitable.

[Peebo]

A writer like John Fairgrieve suggested Tynecastle be turned into a car park after we lost to Forfar in 1982. Other horrendous results have been picked out such as Montrose in 1987. In a few years, that vermin defeat from last year won't be recalled at all. This defeat will be. That's the difference.

While the Peterhead result is the most embarrassing of my Hearts supporting lifetime, I will remember both of the Hibs cup defeats for a long, long time. The one last season was the most depressing game I've attended.

[socrates82]

No point in debating with him. Only when we start to lose league games after another underwhelming and disorganised close season will he wake up and accept the inevitable.

 

I've clearly said I'm happy for him to have the start of the league season, along with many others and the people who employ him, and have given reasons why. Not my fault you can't accept there are opposing views.