Manchester Arena

[westbow]

But still the default behind this is we tacitly accept that as part of multiculturalism, someone can be given asylum by our state (his parents) and all the benefits of most tolerant nation on Earth yet when it comes to crunch they would side against us with mutters in a country whom they have zilch to do with outside their shared religion. Its a central flaw in our notion of citizenship.

If that was the case there would be bombs going off everyday mate. We shouldn't waste our time with scapegoats when there are thousands of known nutters that are free to roam the streets.

[JJ1984]

There's been over 200 civilian deaths in Syria this MONTH alone committed by the US.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/deadliest-month-syria-civilians-us-led-strikes-monitor-103330002.html

 

Does anybody think that maybe this has something to do with the constant terror attacks here?

 

No, It's an excuse for apologists and ****ing nut jobs. 

[Escobar PHM]

You have to be slightly naive to think that we police the world because of some superior human morals over others.

 

We do it because we have geopolitical interests in these regions, entirely due to money, control and power.

In what way does Syria and our presence there serve those interests ? It produces next to no oil. Its leader is a murdering pariah with no respect or influence in the important countries in the region and the country is one vast empty desert with no prizes for winning control.

 

I think we're in Syria purely to defeat ISIS, a lethal, dangerous and expansive threat to innocent men, women and children or all religions all over the western world. Call me na?ve.

[Cruyff Turn]

Conspiracy nuts have started already. Apparently the timing somehow has helped the government. Heard on Jeremy Vine show.

That's mental. If anything this questions whether the current government, the Previous Home Secretaries and the current one have been doing their jobs properly.

Have MI5 done everything they could, were they given enough resources?

 

Clearly a lot of questions will need to be asked as it seems this one could have been prevented as he and possibly his pals were known the different intelligence agencies around the world.

 

If this guy had been an immigrant and sneaked in to this Country on the sole purpose of committing this crime and no one knew of his existence then there's not much anyone could do to stop it.

[Escobar PHM]

I'm not interested around the strategic battle in Syria.

 

I'm more concerned that Saudi Arabia is allowed to promote this hard line extremist view of Islam around the world and we (the West) prop them up.

Whats your answer there then. Cut off ties with Saudi Arabia ?

[frankblack]

I'm no conspiracy nut and don't think there was any involvement of the government or their agencies, however I do think an unintended consequence of this will be increased support for the Conservatives.

 

Hopefully when they resume campaigning this is left out of the debate but I feel it won't be, it is what is and they are who they are.

 

It does seem to have pissed off the nats who have had their election campaign in tatters before its begun.

[EH11 1874]

Hahaha genius fella.

 

Not overly familar with your posting style yet but I salute you sir.

Cheers mate! Hopefully Corden goes over to try to negotiate with those nutters...

[EH11 1874]

Ok, just watched a link of him saying how great Manchester and its people are and his thoughts go out to the teams of helpers, Ariana Grande and her team and then lastly the families (not sure if it's the right one I'm watching) If it is, do tell us how this this will make them change their horrific ways?

It won't. I was joking.

 

Corden is a *****.

[westbow]

I'm no conspiracy nut and don't think there was any involvement of the government or their agencies, however I do think an unintended consequence of this will be increased support for the Conservatives.

 

Hopefully when they resume campaigning this is left out of the debate but I feel it won't be, it is what is and they are who they are.

I'm not so sure, there will be fallout from this. She won't come up smelling of roses.

[Space Mackerel]

In what way does Syria and our presence there serve those interests ? It produces next to no oil. Its leader is a murdering pariah with no respect or influence in the important countries in the region and the country is one vast empty desert with no prizes for winning control.

 

I think we're in Syria purely to defeat ISIS, a lethal, dangerous and expansive threat to innocent men, women and children or all religions all over the western world. Call me na?ve.

You honestly think that Syria is a land of dust and sand?

Why don't you have a look at the mineral map of Afghanistan and get back to me.

 

Here a starter for 10.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996

[Space Mackerel]

Whats your answer there then. Cut off ties with Saudi Arabia ?

Starting to ask serious questions to our respective heads of states would be a good starting point.

[redm]

Trustees of Didsbury Mosque are making a statement live on BBCNews if anyone's interested.

[maroonlegions]

Just your usual 'everyone who thinks differently to me is an ________insert where applicable________'ist' of some sort.

 

What feck are you on about,

 

You are either a troll or a shit stirrer what one is it fella.

 

You seem to have taken offence to that theme  i posted from that ex soldier with your usual one liner of "just about the full card fella".

 

Care to expand on what you mean by that instead of your usual attempt of trying to make  my post about me instead of the actual content of it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Starting to ask serious questions to our respective heads of states would be a good starting point.

 

Their Westminster and Holyrood address are freely available, feel free to write to them anytime you want, that's what they're there for, so the public can write and complain about things.

[luckyBatistuta]

It won't. I was joking.

Corden is a *****.

I agree it won't and that he is indeed a *****

 

but not really the best of threads for jokes and trolling bud, but maybe i'm just miffed that I bit.

[maroonlegions]

Indeed. There needs to be explanations on how these guys were under the radar.

 Totally agree .

[Space Mackerel]

Their Westminster and Holyrood address are freely available, feel free to write to them anytime you want, that's what they're there for, so the public can write and complain about things.

Fat load of good that will do. The more people who understand what Whabbism is and who actually funds it the better. Seems like there's quite a few on here need to.

 

From the Telegraph:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/what-is-wahhabism-the-reactionary-branch-of-islam-said-to-be-the/

[westbow]

You honestly think that Syria is a land of dust and sand?

Why don't you have a look at the mineral map of Afghanistan and get back to me.

 

Here a starter for 10.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996

We are in the quagmire of Syria to steal their minerals? Hardly worth it. How we going to extract them then? Wait until the off chance of a friendly government and help ourselves like in the 1800s? Would it not have been less bother to cosy up to the existing regime?

[GBJambo]

Don't think you can blame the intelligence services. Due to the volume of attempted attacks that they have foiled. It was sadly only a matter of time that one got through.

 

And it will happen again. Only a case of when.

[Space Mackerel]

We are in the quagmire of Syria to steal their minerals? Hardly worth it. How we going to extract them then? Wait until the off chance of a friendly government and help ourselves like in the 1800s? Would it not have been less bother to cosy up to the existing regime?

Not just Syria, the whole of the Caucuses region is what they're fighting over right now.

[Maroon Sailor]

Anyway Space Sturgeon - a late entry in to this thread, and steering it in your direction again.

 

Any thoughts for the families of the victims and people in hospital and the barbaric nature of the atrocity ?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Fat load of good that will do. The more people who understand what Whabbism is and who actually funds it the better. Seems like there's quite a few on here need to.

 

From the Telegraph:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/what-is-wahhabism-the-reactionary-branch-of-islam-said-to-be-the/

 

It would do no good whatsoever, just like an anti-war march, what have they ever achieved, how many wars have they ever stopped?

 

Wahhabism, mate your ordinary Joe in the street doesn't give a flying **** about Wahhabism or who funds it, no they just want the terrorism to stop, people see it as Muslims or Muslim converts who are carrying out these attacks, they don't give a thought as to whether the attacker is Shia, Sunni or any other sub-sect of the Islamic faith, nor do they care, they're Muslim that's all the public know and care about.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Not just Syria, the whole of the Caucuses region is what they're fighting over right now.

 

The Caucuses region? 

Isn't that between the Black & Caspian Seas largely comprising of Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan & Armenia, what fighting is going on there.

[Hendricks]

 

I do wonder how anyone can get away with visiting places like Syria for weeks on end without it seeming a bit dodge though. Unless they just manage not to let on to friends and family. I don't really understand that part.

 

 

To me this is the very obvious starting point for change. I mentioned this in a number of posts in the immediate aftermath of the latest atrocity and of course we are now, as expected, learning that this terrorist had traveled freely to ISIS hotbeds and returned to kill innocent British civilians. Obviously the monitoring of individuals and watch lists etc do exist however they are failing or at least far from full proof, that much is clear. There now requires far more drastic action in my opinion and a changing of laws. The government has the power to take the steps required to instigate significant change to who is allowed back into the UK having spent time in places like Syria, Lybia and Iraq (I am only using examples here).

 

Far better that innocent Muslims are effected by some travel limitations / bans (at least until appropriate vetting can be put in place ) than more innocent children are murdered by extremists who are allowed to freely re-enter our country. Its time that these steps were taken because if it wasn't already clear (it was!) that young Muslim men are traveling to train and become further indoctrinated and radicalized this latest horrific attack proves it further. There will be many likeminded others, I heard one expert speaking who reckoned 400 have left our shores to seek similar paths in just the last year. Thats horrendous. FOUR HUNDRED! Imagine we were to let them all back into the UK....

 

I'm not suggesting for a second that in practice this is going to be straightforward but the time for listening to platitudes and about how everyone should stand together should be over. Action is needed.

[Space Mackerel]

The Caucuses region?

Isn't that between the Black & Caspian Seas largely comprising of Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan & Armenia, what fighting is going on there.

You mean all these areas that are rich in natural gas and oil plus other minerals.

 

It's been mentioned on the Syria thread that one of the main issues is the set up of a pipeline through the country to get these resources to the Wests markets.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Boab]

Reported that the father of the bomber says his son is innocent and wasn't linked to extremists.

If this is accurate, it should be prosecuted as a crime if information is correct.

The enormity of the problem right there.

Ghastly.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

You mean all these areas that are rich in natural gas and oil plus other minerals.

 

It's been mentioned on the Syria thread that one of the main issues is the set up of a pipeline through the country to get these resources to the Wests markets.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

The very same, but as you say this was discussed on the Syria thread and that is where it should be discussed, not on this thread which is about the Manchester attack.

[Jeff]

His brothers just been arrested in Tripoli

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Reported that the father of the bomber says his son is innocent and wasn't linked to extremists.

If this is accurate, it should be prosecuted as a crime if information is correct.

The enormity of the problem right there.

Ghastly.

 

His younger son has been arrested in the UK as well now.

The father was speaking from Tripoli were he works.

He says that he spoke to his son 5 days ago and he sounded 'normal', I certainly hope that this isn't the reason why the father is claiming that his son is innocent because he sounded normal, the last time they spoke.

[Space Mackerel]

The very same, but as you say this was discussed on the Syria thread and that is where it should be discussed, not on this thread which is about the Manchester attack.

Aren't the 2 intrinsically linked? After all, these bampots are visiting the place and getting trained up over there.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Taffin]

My word.

 

Not a chance I'm clicking those bat shit crazy links.

 

It wasn't a sexist attack FFS.

 

Using this attack to peddle a feminist agenda is ******* outrageous. Deflecting from the actual issue. Disgusting stuff.

I'm just catching up on this thread so apologies as I'm sure this will have been covered.

 

I totally disagree with you on that. Sexism is inextricably linked to the extreme Islamist agenda and cannot be decoupled in this instance.

 

It is of course terrorism but part of the driver is likely that it is liberal western females carrying out acts deemed to be not fit for a Muslim and certainly not for a Muslim woman.

 

 

Edit. Just clicked the next page and see the thread descended into the usual simpletons foaming at the mouth on the topic so apologies for bringing it back up.

[Pans Jambo]

With that in mind, and with comments on this thread about 'shoot-to-kill', would you be happy if the 200 or so known extremists who have been to training camps (not sure if that is the actual number), or the people who are taking so much time and resources from our intelligence services with round the clock surveillance, would you be happy if they were to 'disappear', or to befall some kind of 'nasty accident?'

 

I know some people would think that it would be some kind of recruiting drive for isis, to start fighting fire with fire, terror with even more extreme terror, and that it shouldn't be the done thing in a civil and just society, but when the very things you hold dear, that you take for granted, like a trip to a concert or theatre, are under threat, the lives of your children and loved ones are under threat, you can't just keep going through the same cycle as before, because it isn't working.

 

And, if you were some kind of potential jihadi, would you perhaps not think twice about accessing those extremist sites, planning trips to known terror camps, if the people you knew who were also doing these things were suddenly dissapearing?

The thing is we live in a democracy with freedom of speech, freedom of movement and the state are not allowed to lock you up just because. We are innocent until proven guilty and our civil liberties are quite rightly protected. Appreciate thats EVERYONE including terrorist training holiday makers.

I dont have the answers but seriously, if you have been to Syria a few times and are known to the security services, should they not at least be questioned? Perhaps a 12 month probation with an ankle bracelet so we know their movements? We can do this for common criminals. Whatever but for these people (the visitors to certain middle eastern countries without good cause) laws need chaned.

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Does she not realise it is her who is being sexist ffs. How was it a 'woman's concert'?

 

And there was certainly males in the audience.

Ariana Grande is the woman being referred to in the phrase "woman's concert".

[Hendricks]

Ariana Grande seemingly is offering to pay for the funerals of the victims.

 

Nice touch.

 

If true, and confirmed, I might add.

 

 

Yaya Toure has also donated 100k to the victims fund. Good to see a much maligned character stepping up to help.

 

I read a quote from Pep Guardiola that his wife and 2 kids were at the concert. 

[Gizmo]

Because it is all so generic and empty and I feel the intentions of those that do are questionable.  Just my opinion of course.

 

You really do hate people, don't you?

 

Of course people will go too far but often these sentiments, as much as they can be cloying or disproportionate, are really just a person showing empathy and saying that they are not going to let themselves become hardened, cynical and hate-fuelled because of the actions of some ideologically driven nutjobs.

 

Just like your wee mump about anyone who has attended the MEN or other major arenas recently and thinks, even briefly, that this incident was a little close to home. Sure, the likelyhood of being killed in an Islamic terrorist atrocity is still extremely slim, regular attendance at certain places raises the risk somewhat.

 

Your cynicism, as evidence from your posts on here, make me wonder if you'll eventually end up doubting your own sincerity soon (if you are capable of any).

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The bombers younger brother Hashem, who has been arrested in Libya.

 

 

Allegedly this photo was posted by his father with the caption 'A young lion in training', also on the father's facebook page he praises IS.

 

If this is true then, none of the family should be allowed entry into the UK ever again, and if they do try they should be arrested immediately.

[markphmfc]

Its a fair point and its an awful high collateral rate. What is that part of the solution though. Keep our noses out and leave ISIS to probably thrive in that country and overthrow Assad ? We(the west) are very close to beating them in their last 2 strongholds. Do we withdraw now ?

the horse has bolted and pullin aw the troops oot counties like iraq n that wouldnt make a blind bit of difference.

[redm]

 

[emoji15]

[iantjambo]

 

[emoji15]

Nice family!

[Zico]

Photos of the bomb published by the NY Times. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

The US security services have more leaks than the titanic!

 

Edit: the detonator etc, not pictures of the aftermath.

[Francis Albert]

It's OK the Guardian rushed to tell us this morning, as it always delights in doing, that the murderer was "home grown". So obviously nothing to do with immigration or refugees.

[Private Hudson]

It's OK the Guardian rushed to tell us this morning, as it always delights in doing, that the murderer was "home grown". So obviously nothing to do with immigration or refugees.

 

If he was white and of good Anglo-Saxon stock would you be saying the same? Didn't think so.

[Governor Tarkin]

Won't be happy bunnies here, in the security & intelligence services, about those pictures.

 

Think that's an understatement.

The Yanks really need to wind their necks in.

[Jeff]

Fled the Gaddafi regime and then pay us back like that... Would be pretty sweet if the brother and dad were sent here for a little 'chat'

[Cade]

UK police are raging at the leaks.

 

US media named the suspect hours before the UK police wanted that made public, meaning that any accomplices had a heads up to go to ground.

[Jeff]

UK police are raging at the leaks.

 

US media named the suspect hours before the UK police wanted that made public, meaning that any accomplices had a heads up to go to ground.

Surely accomplices would be ready regardless of who and when it was revealed? I know theyre not the sharpest tools in the box but cmon...

[elvoys]

If that was the case there would be bombs going off everyday mate. We shouldn't waste our time with scapegoats when there are thousands of known nutters that are free to roam the streets.

I wasn't insinuating that for every Brit Muslim at all. I was talking about our rationale after attacks e.g. nobody stopped Jezbollah 'my friends Hamas' Corbyn after he blamed 7/7 on 2003 Iraq to ask - what does a British Pakistani have to do with Iraq?

[Francis Albert]

If he was white and of good Anglo-Saxon stock would you be saying the same? Didn't think so.

Your racism detection meter needs some attention.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Fled the Gaddafi regime and then pay us back like that... Would be pretty sweet if the brother and dad were sent here for a little 'chat'

 

Naw, let them rot in a Libyan hell hole which I'm sure won't have all the mod cons they would get in a British jail, either that or take them for a little one way trip into the desert.

[glynnlondon]

If he was white and of good Anglo-Saxon stock would you be saying the same? Didn't think so.

Surprisingly he wasn't.