Manchester Arena

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I'd argue locking up members of a specific community whether they're guilty or not will not act as a preventative measure long-term. Quite the opposite.

Agreed. But I suspected we could probably be much tougher on people who are clearly high risk. I mean, take this guy. The tell-tale signs were all there. The French knew he had travelled to Syria.

[Caspian Primrose]

Some of the stuff he said was harrowing and the work these guys do is Incredible. Basically, if it wasn't for these people the Russians, Chinese and any other terror group would be running this country.

 

Would they be any worse than the people running it now?

[Zico]

Agreed. But I suspected we could probably be much tougher on people who are clearly high risk. I mean, take this guy. The tell-tale signs were all there. The French knew he had travelled to Syria.

I've not seen anyone confirm that they know he want to Syria - most sites suggest the French think he did but no hard confirmation. If he did, it'll have been illegally via Libya where there are no western embassies and therefore, no spies. And he certainly had a plausible reason to be in Libya.

[elvoys]

I'm struggling to get a coherent point from that.

 

Your first point about Germany, Sweden and Belgium is simply you being selective. You're disregarding the fact that all have joined in military intervention in the Middle East recently, simply because it doesn't fit your agenda. It's clearly very relevant to what's going on. Dismissing it does you no service.

 

Dar el harb refers to the entire non-Muslim world. It applies equally to South America, for example. Yet, all the countries you mentioned are involved in what is seen as occupation and aggression. You'd have a point if the countries being attacked were non-Muslim and non-interventionist. But they're not. They are interventionist. On this point, you're just wrong.

 

You seem to be arguing that because The West has not intervened in every Islamic country in every decade then the (numerous and harmful) interventions somehow don't have any impact.

 

And your apartheid analogy missed out the bit where The West condoned the actions of the brutal dictator. People in the Middle East especially are very aware of the extent to which some of their worst leaders have been propped up by The West.

 

Nobody is arguing that there is not a religious element to this problem (nobody I've noticed on here anyway) but it just seems frankly bizarre that people would try to claim that The West's actions in other parts of the world have not created the kind of resentment that feeds terrorism. They very clearly have. I'm baffled as to how anyone could argue otherwise. Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of history.

We also condoned the system of apartheid.

 

But who would deny that history is happened? Yet the sweep of history or the humiliation in face of force or dominant civilisations is not unique to Islam. Where are the Jewish bombers punishing Germany's history? The Vietnamese holding a grudge against Yanks? Why are Armenians not attacking Turks for their continued humiliation? The Tibetans with China? The Palestinian Christians who endure the same conditions?

 

What I'm saying is the religion is not merely an element. It is the entire prism through which all the other factors are viewed and skewed.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Some of the stuff he said was harrowing and the work these guys do is Incredible. Basically, if it wasn't for these people the Russians, Chinese and any other terror group would be running this country.

 

Would they be any worse than the people running it now?

 

That's a joke isn't it?

[niblick1874]

He makes a decent point about the conduct of SOME 'celebrities' this week. In SOME cases its been opportunistic, patronising sound bytey look at me empty nonsense. I'm uncomfortable with SOME of them coming out of the woodwork showing what came across as faux compassion quite frankly.

 

Corden in particular made himself look like a bit of an oaf.

They get nowhere in the music industry unless they say what they are told to say. Scum.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7tmfAXbK8c

[Dagger Is Back]

They get nowhere in the music industry unless they say what they are told to say. Scum.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7tmfAXbK8c

 

Nap for first female president of the USA on that showing. What a load of drivel. Morrisey was one of the few to nail it with his comments this week. All these celebs and politicians saying live life as normal, love each other, blah blah blah, whilst living lives behind walled mansions, with security guards and private jets flying them a to b.

[Tars]

Maajid Nawaz with the nail on the head yet again...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Escobar PHM]

Just recently finished a book called Solider Spy which is about a retired secret service and Mi5 officer. Also, an ex army veteran who worked under the guidance of the MI5.

 

Some of the stuff he said was harrowing and the work these guys do is Incredible. Basically, if it wasn't for these people the Russians, Chinese and any other terror group would be running this country.

Probably got lost in the thread but this is a great book. Highly recommended.

[Caspian Primrose]

That's a joke isn't it?

Yeah. Kind of

[Cade]

It's not the removal of brutal dictators that has been the problem. They were evil people and deserved to be toppled.

 

It's the complete lack of anything to replace them with that has opened the door for the various groups of total arseholes that are tearing the region to shreds.

 

All that happened was a huge power vacuum and, arguably, things are far worse in those nations since the dictators were removed.

[niblick1874]

Of topic?

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/gunmen-kill-26-in-attack-on-christians-in-egypt/ar-BBByrvb?li=AAggNb9

[Maroon Sailor]

Nap for first female president of the USA on that showing. What a load of drivel. Morrisey was one of the few to nail it with his comments this week. All these celebs and politicians saying live life as normal, love each other, blah blah blah, whilst living lives behind walled mansions, with security guards and private jets flying them a to b.

Miss Grande couldn't wait to get out of Dodge

 

Would have been nice of her to stay a few days and visit some of her fans lying in hospital wards

[Jeff]

Miss Grande couldn't wait to get out of Dodge

 

Would have been nice of her to stay a few days and visit some of her fans lying in hospital wards

Shes a young lassie thousands of miles from her home and family. Give her a break

[MacDonald Jardine]

Shes a young lassie thousands of miles from her home and family. Give her a break

Is she not also on tour at the moment?

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Maroon Sailor]

Shes a young lassie thousands of miles from her home and family. Give her a break

I'm not having a go - all I said it would have been nice of her

[pablo]

She's just announced that she'll return to Manchester and play a benefit concert for the families of the victims.

 

Not sure what more she should be doing?

[Dagger Is Back]

Miss Grande couldn't wait to get out of Dodge

 

Would have been nice of her to stay a few days and visit some of her fans lying in hospital wards

 

I think it would have been too and I'm sure those lying in hospital would have appreciated the gesture. In saying that it's clear she was absolutely distraught and she's just a young lass. I'm sure she'll make sure that those poor people are invited back to the benefit gig she'll announce. I guess I was getting at folks who preach love will save the day stuff.

 

We do need to stick together and realise that there are more good people than bad out there. What we do need to do though is strongly clamp down on those who have extremist tendencies/links and those found guilty of acts of terrorism.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Give the wee lassie a break.

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Folk having a go at Arianna Grande now ffs.

[Cade]

Stopping her tour means the arsehole terrorists win.

 

She's already paying for all the funerals and has promised to hold a benefit concert at a later date

 

Some people are just dicks.

[Maroon Sailor]

Folk having a go at Arianna Grande now ffs.

Who is having a go ?

 

Saying it would be a nice thing to do ?

 

Maybe I should have said something nasty

[Cade]

What do you want from her?

 

Do you want her to cancel her tour and spend 24 hours a day weeping at the bedside of all the hundreds of injured victims?

 

Quit the music business and sign up as a mercenary, go to the middle east and fight her own wee crusade?

 

What exactly has she done wrong in your twisted opinion?

[elvoys]

Stopping her tour means the arsehole terrorists win.

 

She's already paying for all the funerals and has promised to hold a benefit concert at a later date

 

Some people are just dicks.

As bad as her music is, I'm not sure halting Ariana's tour is that high up on Jihadists set of goals.

 

Tbf though you're more likely to hear that as a central motivation from the choose love brigade ,Burnham et al than scripture.

[elvoys]

Of topic?

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/gunmen-kill-26-in-attack-on-christians-in-egypt/ar-BBByrvb?li=AAggNb9

Christians made to recite Shahada (only one god, mo is his messenger), they refuse and get shot accordingly. Included 1 year old baby who couldn't walk yet. Of course for the poem reciters, Burnham et al this clearly isn't really about a religion which is peaceful after all and 'choosing love' is the only moral option.

[Maroon Sailor]

What do you want from her?

 

Do you want her to cancel her tour and spend 24 hours a day weeping at the bedside of all the hundreds of injured victims?

 

Quit the music business and sign up as a mercenary, go to the middle east and fight her own wee crusade?

 

What exactly has she done wrong in your twisted opinion?

Listen pal - the only person who has a twisted opinion is you. Most of your posts generally go in the direction of totally misinterpreting what has been said in order for you to fly in to a dizzy spin. Something I think you enjoy doing.

 

All I said was that it would have been nice of her. What is twisted about that ?

 

I am seeing this from her injured fans point of view lying in a hospital bed and what it would mean to them to have their idol pop in for a few minutes. Would mean the world to them.

 

She chose to go home - I have no problem with her doing that - so again what is twisted about it ?

 

I've said my piece - accept it or not but I'm disengaging from you because you are a nightmare to interact with on this forum. You are the epitome of blowing things way out of context and making mountains out of molehills.

[iantjambo]

I dare say that Grande will make arrangements to meet those that were injured and the families of the ones who lost their lives, when she returns to Manchester.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/27/manchester-attack-uk-terror-threat-level-critical-severe-operation-temperer-bank-holiday

[Cade]

That disgusting rag, the Daily Mail, also tried to blame Grande for the attacks. The paper claimed that it was her skimpy stage outfits that made the bomber target her gig.

 

[iantjambo]

That disgusting rag, the Daily Mail, also tried to blame Grande for the attacks. The paper claimed that it was her skimpy stage outfits that made the bomber target her gig.

 

Saw that earlier.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Ray Gin]

That disgusting rag, the Daily Mail, also tried to blame Grande for the attacks. The paper claimed that it was her skimpy stage outfits that made the bomber target her gig.

 

 

All those images of celebrities in skimpy outfits will surely make The Daily Mail a target for the next attack.

[Adam Murray]

That disgusting rag, the Daily Mail, also tried to blame Grande for the attacks. The paper claimed that it was her skimpy stage outfits that made the bomber target her gig.

 

 

Not too dissimilar to what redm posted earlier in the thread from both The Washington Post and Rolling Stone, and while there was some disagreement as to whether they were right or wrong, there was no such condemnation of those papers.

[Cade]

Any publication that tries to pin blame on Grande is vile and should be roundly condemned.

[MacDonald Jardine]

That disgusting rag, the Daily Mail, also tried to blame Grande for the attacks. The paper claimed that it was her skimpy stage outfits that made the bomber target her gig.

 

I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but if it was reported as the bomber's reason for doing it, as opposed to justifying his actions, it may well be true.

[Maroon Sailor]

I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but if it was reported as the bomber's reason for doing it, as opposed to justifying his actions, it may well be true.

Looking more and more likely he has specifically targeted this particular concert because of the make up of the audience.

[Governor Tarkin]

Like you, you mean

 

Biggest dick on this forum

Nowhere near the biggest dick on this forum

[Space Mackerel]

Nowhere near the biggest dick on this forum

Captain Pugwashs' critical thinking goes as far as deciding between a mince pie supper or a smoked sausage one.

[Irufushi]

^worst poster^

[Space Mackerel]

^worst poster^

Worst troll ever [emoji2]

[Maroon Sailor]

Nowhere near the biggest dick on this forum

You've flushed him out

[Space Mackerel]

You've flushed him out

Phhhhooooooooooooo, phhhheeeeeeeeee.

 

Captain on deck!!!! All aboard HMS Bollox and all that sails on her.

[CJGJ]

Name and shame them is what I'd like to see,,,,,,,

 

More than 10,000 "unscrupulous" people have falsely claimed they were at the scene of the Manchester attack in order to get free tickets for Sunday's benefit concert, Ticketmaster has said.

The agency said "opportunists or touts" had tried to take advantage of its offer for those who were at the Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena.

It has said fans at the original show can get into Sunday's event for free.

Some 25,000 people applied - but just 14,200 were at the concert on 22 May.

 

The deadline for fans who were at the original concert to apply for free tickets for Sunday was extended twice, eventually closing at 14:00 BST on Thursday.

In a statement, Ticketmaster said: "We have set aside tickets for the 14,200 people who were at the Ariana Grande concert to attend One Love Manchester for free.

"More than 25,000 people applied for them. Sadly, over 10,000 unscrupulous applications have been made.

"At Ticketmaster we are doing everything we can - including extending today's deadline - to ensure that tickets go to the actual fans and not the opportunists or touts who have also been applying for free tickets."

As well as offering free tickets to those at the original concert, the company put around 35,000 further tickets on general sale on Thursday for ?40 each. They sold out in less than 20 minutes.

But some have appeared on eBay for up to ?200 each, leading fans on social media to vent their anger at the "absolutely sickening" sellers who were trying to cash in.

The auction site said it was removing them as fast as it could.

[Cade]

People are just the worst

[Jeff]

Charge the liars with fraud. Sure it will deter the heartless twats who try and profit from such an atrocity

[Marvin]

I was appalled to read about the thousands of people trying to obtain free tickets for the benefit gig. Sick barstewards the lot of them.

[peter_hmfc]

Charge the liars with fraud. Sure it will deter the heartless twats who try and profit from such an atrocity

 

Well maybe not charged with fraud, but they can't get off as easily as just being refused tickets. Something should definitely be done about ticket touts in general though tbh.

 

And Islam, something should definitely be reformed about Islam, but that's obvious.

[The Internet]

Would be nice if Ariana just sorted these problems in my humble opinion.

[SwindonJambo]

Charge the liars with fraud. Sure it will deter the heartless twats who try and profit from such an atrocity

There's some truely immoral, heartless pondlife around. Sickening.

[Ray Gin]

Name and shame them is what I'd like to see,,,,,,,

 

More than 10,000 "unscrupulous" people have falsely claimed they were at the scene of the Manchester attack in order to get free tickets for Sunday's benefit concert, Ticketmaster has said.

 

Disgraceful. Utter lowlifes.

[The Internet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40141450

 

She must read kickback.