Manchester Arena

[JJ1984]

If he was white and of good Anglo-Saxon stock would you be saying the same? Didn't think so.

It wasn't though, and as soon as news came through did your instinct tell you your description or the obvious one with the obvious background yet the ***** allowed back in to do this.

Pictures only emerge now of his brother and his dads postings whilst the poisonous ***** are known to police? What about? He had no criminal record it seems, the British authorities let this ***** back into our country and society. This shit needs to stop. Known to police, wants to **** off to one of these countries don't let back in until innocence is proven.

[JJ1984]

Surprisingly he wasn't.

Yep. I had all my cards on the evil monster being a white Anglo brit.

[JJ1984]

Your racism detection meter needs some attention.

[Jeff]

The bombers younger brother Hashem, who has been arrested in Libya.

 

 

Allegedly this photo was posted by his father with the caption 'A young lion in training', also on the father's facebook page he praises IS.

 

If this is true then, none of the family should be allowed entry into the UK ever again, and if they do try they should be arrested immediately.

Wearing American branded clothing as well... Not a brain cell in the family

[jake]

If he was white and of good Anglo-Saxon stock would you be saying the same? Didn't think so.

 

You are accusing him of an agenda when in actual fact he was pointing out the guardians.

People like you cant wait to insinuate can you.

Throwing around the racist card and by doing that making it meaningless.

[Rudy T]

The bombers younger brother Hashem, who has been arrested in Libya.

 

 

Allegedly this photo was posted by his father with the caption 'A young lion in training', also on the father's facebook page he praises IS.

 

If this is true then, none of the family should be allowed entry into the UK ever again, and if they do try they should be arrested immediately.

So hold on. Let me get this right the guy was known to security services,was known to have travelled to that region and returned, and the ****ing Sun newspaper have found this picture of his brother and other outlets have dug up info on his father.

 

Someone isn't doing their job. I know they foil many plots....or so we're told but ****ing hell how the **** did this scumbag slip through the net. And worryingly how many more are out there that are known but are going unchecked.

[Private Hudson]

Your racism detection meter needs some attention.

Oh really? Enlighten me. You take issue with the term 'home grown'? I'm not sure what your problem with that is? He was born and raised here so how is he not 'home grown'?

 

Unless you mean not trained here? In which case it's a border and surveillance issue, not a refugee or immigration issue.

 

 

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[Caspian Primrose]

Just another day in Europe

[jake]

Oh really? Enlighten me. You take issue with the term 'home grown'? I'm not sure what your problem with that is? He was born and raised here so how is he not 'home grown'?

 

Unless you mean not trained here? In which case it's a border and surveillance issue, not a refugee or immigration issue.

 

 

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Then why is the guardian addressing its immigration agenda.

 

Thats the point no matter how you try and twist it.

Dogma governing your thought process here is it?

[Francis Albert]

Oh really? Enlighten me. You take issue with the term 'home grown'? I'm not sure what your problem with that is? He was born and raised here so how is he not 'home grown'?

 

Unless you mean not trained here? In which case it's a border and surveillance issue, not a refugee or immigration issue.

 

 

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It seems he may have been brought up in a family that has some connection with foreign terrorists/extremists. You would have to ask the guardian why almost the first thing they reported about him was that he was "home grown". As jake said my post was about the Guardian's agenda, not  mine.

[Private Hudson]

It seems he may have been brought up in a family that has some connection with foreign terrorists/extremists. You would have to ask the guardian why almost the first thing they reported about him was that he was "home grown". As jake said my post was about the Guardian's agenda, not mine.

Why do you have a problem with the Guardian reporting a verifiable fact? Of all the facts they reported it's that one that bothers you? Seems it's you that has the agenda.

 

 

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[Private Hudson]

Then why is the guardian addressing its immigration agenda.

 

Thats the point no matter how you try and twist it.

Dogma governing your thought process here is it?

And the Daily Mail has an agenda to portray all Muslims as potential terrorists. Doesn't change the fact he's British.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

It's pretty much set in stone that this guy was born in the U.K. and has had a British or English education up to a point. As were the 7/7 bombers.

 

Some posters on here are trying to fudge that Brexit and leaving the EU are going to stop these acts of terrorism. It won't.

 

 

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[Jambo-Jimbo]

So hold on. Let me get this right the guy was known to security services,was known to have travelled to that region and returned, and the ******* Sun newspaper have found this picture of his brother and other outlets have dug up info on his father.

 

Someone isn't doing their job. I know they foil many plots....or so we're told but ******* hell how the **** did this scumbag slip through the net. And worryingly how many more are out there that are known but are going unchecked.

 

Agreed, if the media can dig this stuff up then you'd think so could the security services, it's apparent that it was there for all to see, you only needed to look.

 

Someone has really f***** up here, perhaps this is why the Americans are leaking so must info, so as to embarrass their British counterparts and maybe by doing so it'll give them a major kick up the jacksy and maybe they won't be so complacent in the future.

 

Your last comment is the real worry, because how many times do we hear the same phrase 'known to the police' or was deemed a low level risk.

[Bindy Badgy]

UK police are raging at the leaks.

 

US media named the suspect hours before the UK police wanted that made public, meaning that any accomplices had a heads up to go to ground.

 

Manchester attack: US leaks about bomber irritating - Rudd

 

Home Secretary Amber Rudd has said she is irritated with the US for releasing information about the Manchester bomber before UK police would have liked.

 

Ms Rudd said the British had wanted to control the flow of information to "keep the element of surprise".

 

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she had been very clear with Washington "that it should not happen again".

 

Ms Rudd said the Manchester-born bomber Salman Abedi had already been on the radar of the British security services.

 

She claimed the 22-year-old, born to parents of Libyan origin, "was known up to a point" in the UK.

 

 

[elvoys]

It's pretty much set in stone that this guy was born in the U.K. and has had a British or English education up to a point. As were the 7/7 bombers.

 

Some posters on here are trying to fudge that Brexit and leaving the EU are going to stop these acts of terrorism. It won't.

 

 

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Agreed but the chance to ditch aspects of the ECHR, particularly in term of appeals for terror charges is a small net positive.

[Francis Albert]

It's pretty much set in stone that this guy was born in the U.K. and has had a British or English education up to a point. As were the 7/7 bombers.

 

Some posters on here are trying to fudge that Brexit and leaving the EU are going to stop these acts of terrorism. It won't.

 

 

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I don't know which posters you are referring to with that sweeping and unfounded allegation.  I was pro-remain. I think immigration is beneficial to the UK and should (and despite May's election promises) will remain at least at current levels. Now that we are going to have it one advantage of Brexit is that it may improve the balance between mainly relatively  unskilled mainly white immigrants from Eastern Europe and higher educated and qualified people like nurses and doctors from places such as India and Pakistan.

 

No-one on here except you has linked the Manchester murders with Brexit and leaving the EU. I don't think it matters whether he is "home grown" or not (although I think "home grown" as a description begs the question of what influences British people to support ISIS or other murderous organisations) For some reason the Guardian thinks it is important.

[jake]

And the Daily Mail has an agenda to portray all Muslims as potential terrorists. Doesn't change the fact he's British.

 

 

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Whats the daily mail got to do with it.

 

We all know hes british.

 

You tried to make out the poster was racist.

Didnt you?

 

Shutting down points of view with this tactic doesnt cut the mustard anymore.

Regardless of where he was born he carried out an atrocitie on behalf of a racist fascist cult.

A backward religion that has no place in the 21st century.

Do you agree with that or does it not suit your dogma.

[Private Hudson]

I don't know which posters you are referring to with that sweeping and unfounded allegation.  I was pro-remain. I think immigration is beneficial to the UK and should (and despite May's election promises) will remain at least at current levels. Now that we are going to have it one advantage of Brexit is that it may improve the balance between mainly relatively  unskilled mainly white immigrants from Eastern Europe and higher educated and qualified people like nurses and doctors from places such as India and Pakistan.

 

No-one on here except you has linked the Manchester murders with Brexit and leaving the EU. I don't think it matters whether he is "home grown" or not (although I think "home grown" as a description begs the question of what influences British people to support ISIS or other murderous organisations) For some reason the Guardian thinks it is important.

 

I've been on the Guardian website and am struggling to find this massive, glaring exclamation of his nationality. Maybe you could give us a link? 

It is important though isn't it? It stops the knuckledraggers defaulting to xenophobia if it's made clear that he's not an immigrant or refugee. They can't compute the idea that a British person can do this. I don't remember an outcry being directed at every white citizen of Leeds for not stopping Jo Cox's murderer? It's closet racism. Nothing less.

[Space Mackerel]

I don't know which posters you are referring to with that sweeping and unfounded allegation. I was pro-remain. I think immigration is beneficial to the UK and should (and despite May's election promises) will remain at least at current levels. Now that we are going to have it one advantage of Brexit is that it may improve the balance between mainly relatively unskilled mainly white immigrants from Eastern Europe and higher educated and qualified people like nurses and doctors from places such as India and Pakistan.

 

No-one on here except you has linked the Manchester murders with Brexit and leaving the EU. I don't think it matters whether he is "home grown" or not (although I think "home grown" as a description begs the question of what influences British people to support ISIS or other murderous organisations) For some reason the Guardian thinks it is important.

Oh cmon, in the wake of the terror atrocities committed in mainland Europe up to the Brexit vote, it was one of their "project fear" immigration rhetoric.

Well, it isn't immigrants that are causing these acts, it's young disillusioned kids that have been brought up here.

 

 

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[Private Hudson]

Whats the daily mail got to do with it.

 

We all know hes british.

 

You tried to make out the poster was racist.

Didnt you?

 

Shutting down points of view with this tactic doesnt cut the mustard anymore.

Regardless of where he was born he carried out an atrocitie on behalf of a racist fascist cult.

A backward religion that has no place in the 21st century.

Do you agree with that or does it not suit your dogma.

Doesn't cut the mustard with who? You? Boo hoo. I'll say it again. If he was white would there be an issue with him being called home grown? Would there baws. 

[Haken]

Fairly sure you are being trolled. If not I suggest we ship old Jamsey boy off to Syria. Its a win/win. He either solves the problem with a few words or.............

What?! You mean... ...no more Carpool Karaoke?

[Private Hudson]

Whats the daily mail got to do with it.

 

We all know hes british.

 

You tried to make out the poster was racist.

Didnt you?

 

Shutting down points of view with this tactic doesnt cut the mustard anymore.

Regardless of where he was born he carried out an atrocitie on behalf of a racist fascist cult.

A backward religion that has no place in the 21st century.

Do you agree with that or does it not suit your dogma.

 

And what's the fixation with "dogma"? I think all religion is bunkum. But I also accept that people have a right to believe what they want and realistically there's not a lot we can do to stop people using religion as an excuse for carrying out their violent fantasies. 

[Notts1874]

What?! You mean... ...no more Carpool Karaoke?

Only in the unlikely event he doesn't solve the issue with a wee speech so no need to worry.

[Ibrahim Tall]

I've been on the Guardian website and am struggling to find this massive, glaring exclamation of his nationality. Maybe you could give us a link? 

It is important though isn't it? It stops the knuckledraggers defaulting to xenophobia if it's made clear that he's not an immigrant or refugee. They can't compute the idea that a British person can do this. I don't remember an outcry being directed at every white citizen of Leeds for not stopping Jo Cox's murderer? It's closet racism. Nothing less.

He's the son of refugees, it's not a great deal different.

Let's not pretend this is a Richard Reid scenario where you have a genuine British born, British educated guy from a 'British' family.

He was only born in the UK through an accident of fate after his family had to seek refuge from Gaddafi and the same family returned to Libya the first chance they got once Gaddafi was gone.

 

You may not like it but in this scenario there's pretty strong grounds to to question both the UK's border control and also who it allows to immigrate or seek refuge. Particularly given his father and brier have now been arrested for their own links to terrorism.

[jake]

Doesn't cut the mustard with who? You? Boo hoo. I'll say it again. If he was white would there be an issue with him being called home grown? Would there baws.

 

If he was white and was acting on behalf of a racist supremacist fascist religion.

 

There would be no one rushing like you to defend in any way any aspect of this crime.

 

If he was white and acting on behalf of a christian fascist racist terror group id be surprised if he was referred to as home grown.

Everybody knows he was born here .

It is the Guardian who have tried to politicise his birthplace.

 

This is about racist religious maniacs.

 

Wheres your anger at islamic schools who are teaching young kids this in English schools.

 

Doesnt suit your agenda does it?

[Space Mackerel]

He's the son of refugees, it's not a great deal different.

Let's not pretend this is a Richard Reid scenario where you have a genuine British born, British educated guy from a 'British' family.

He was only born in the UK through an accident of fate after his family had to seek refuge from Gaddafi and the same family returned to Libya the first chance they got once Gaddafi was gone.

 

You may not like it but in this scenario there's pretty strong grounds to to question both the UK's border control and also who it allows to immigrate or seek refuge. Particularly given his father and brier have now been arrested for their own links to terrorism.

Jeeez, you're making this sound out like this was pre planned from years ago. Like 30 or so years in the planning, right? That's what you're saying?

 

 

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[Ibrahim Tall]

Jeeez, you're making this sound out like this was pre planned from years ago. Like 30 or so years in the planning, right? That's what you're saying?

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No, that's not what I've suggested at all.

[Private Hudson]

He's the son of refugees, it's not a great deal different.

Let's not pretend this is a Richard Reid scenario where you have a genuine British born, British educated guy from a 'British' family.

He was only born in the UK through an accident of fate after his family had to seek refuge from Gaddafi and the same family returned to Libya the first chance they got once Gaddafi was gone.

 

You may not like it but in this scenario there's pretty strong grounds to to question both the UK's border control and also who it allows to immigrate or seek refuge. Particularly given his father and brier have now been arrested for their own links to terrorism.

 

There's no easy answer. As always, the best solution is somewhere in between. Stopping all immigrants and refugees entering the country isn't the answer. Either is just letting anyone in. We already try to stop unwanted people getting in but the Border Agency can only work with what they've got. 

It's the blanket blaming of the Muslim community that grinds my gears. 

As I wrote earlier, the people of Leeds weren't lambasted for the actions of Jo Cox's murderer. The far right groups weren't questioned for allowing one of there own to kill her.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

He was a scum bag cowardly low life Muslim who hated infidels, Jews and anyone else not of the same ilk as him. Its not rocket science. 

[Ibrahim Tall]

There's no easy answer. As always, the best solution is somewhere in between. Stopping all immigrants and refugees entering the country isn't the answer. Either is just letting anyone in. We already try to stop unwanted people getting in but the Border Agency can only work with what they've got. 

It's the blanket blaming of the Muslim community that grinds my gears. 

As I wrote earlier, the people of Leeds weren't lambasted for the actions of Jo Cox's murderer. The far right groups weren't questioned for allowing one of there own to kill her.

In fairness in the Jo Cox case they were, or the 'Britain First' mob were atleast based on his words before the attack. From what I remember all the media in the country spent a good week trying to crucify them for it and they actually came out condemned it.

[elvoys]

And what's the fixation with "dogma"? I think all religion is bunkum. But I also accept that people have a right to believe what they want and realistically there's not a lot we can do to stop people using religion as an excuse for carrying out their violent fantasies.

Would you need more or less of an excuse for 'violent fantasies' if you'd been brought up to believe people not like you were as good as 'apes and pigs' (koranic term for 'people of the book' - Jews and Christians) and there were ample inductions to kill disbelievers in a sacred, innerant book u were brought up to lionise?

 

Would you need more or less of a push for these fantasies if youd been brought up a Jain whose version of extremism is eating fruit only if its fallen from trees?

 

The fact is the former don't exist at all let alone 30k plus attacks in 65 countries since 9/11. And also the 'excuse for murder' argument doesn't really cover strapping a bomb to yourself and detonating it. They fully BELIEVE in the concept of blissful martyrdom, central to jihad.

 

It also helps if u have as a role model gods perfect man - the guy that came up with this who spread his perfect utopia with similar methods.

 

That is not to say that all 1.6 billion will react the same to scripture and doctrine, especially if it entails psychotic behaviour but the idea that different belief systems won't have different outcomes over their populations is utterly insane.

 

I feel we are in Earth is flat territory with this one but listening to the choose love not division mob the past day, PC dogma seems immune to logic.

[Private Hudson]

If he was white and was acting on behalf of a racist supremacist fascist religion.

 

There would be no one rushing like you to defend in any way any aspect of this crime.

 

If he was white and acting on behalf of a christian fascist racist terror group id be surprised if he was referred to as home grown.

Everybody knows he was born here .

It is the Guardian who have tried to politicise his birthplace.

 

This is about racist religious maniacs.

 

Wheres your anger at islamic schools who are teaching young kids this in English schools.

 

Doesnt suit your agenda does it?

 

Neither I, nor The Guardian, are trying to defend him or his actions. I suspect you know that.

ISIS don't have a large presence in Britain so saying he's 'home grown' establishes that he was not born in the Middle East, where they do have a large presence. It wouldn't be necessary to say he was 'home grown' if he was a Christian fundamentalist. We're a traditionally largely Christian country. 

I don't have an agenda.

[Private Hudson]

Would you need more or less of an excuse for 'violent fantasies' if you'd been brought up to believe people not like you were as good as 'apes and pigs' (koranic term for 'people of the book' - Jews and Christians) and there were ample inductions to kill disbelievers in a sacred, innerant book u were brought up to lionise?

 

Would you need more or less of a push for these fantasies if youd been brought up a Jain whose version of extremism is eating fruit only if its fallen from trees?

 

The fact is the former don't exist at all let alone 30k plus attacks in 65 countries since 9/11. And also the 'excuse for murder' argument doesn't really cover strapping a bomb to yourself and detonating it. They fully BELIEVE in the concept of blissful martyrdom, central to jihad.

 

It also helps if u have as a role model gods perfect man - the guy that came up with this who spread his perfect utopia with similar methods.

 

That is not to say that all 1.6 billion will react the same to scripture and doctrine, especially if it entails psychotic behaviour but the idea that different belief systems won't have different outcomes over their populations is utterly insane.

 

I feel we are in Earth is flat territory with this one but listening to the choose love not division mob the past day, PC dogma seems immune to logic.

 

It's far from the only religion that has led to murder on a grand scale is it? You just happen to be living through Islam's murderous misinterpretation now. Ever heard of the Crusades? The Bible isn't too hot on non-believers either. But yeah, ban Muslims. 

[John Findlay]

I am going to light a candle for you and pray for your sole tonight. Then I am going to hold an online vigil on Facebook live, all are welcome.

 

(BTW I don't understand why these things annoy you so much)

Why are you going to pray for a fish? :-0)

[Maroon Sailor]

Why are you going to pray for a fish? :-0)

I thought he had worn his shoes out

[MacDonald Jardine]

Wee downtrodden card? What are you on about?

 

I went to a "non demonational" primary and a Catholic secondary. At the primary we had as much time with the minister from the local Church of Scotland as we did with the local Catholic priest at secondary.

 

In my opinion there shouldn't be any religion in schools but if there is then provision for different faiths should be made. If that means Catholic or Presbyterian schools then so be it.

I'm talking about your jibe about indoor toilets and the vote, as if specific religious education is a similar right.

 

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[jake]

Neither I, nor The Guardian, are trying to defend him or his actions. I suspect you know that.

ISIS don't have a large presence in Britain so saying he's 'home grown' establishes that he was not born in the Middle East, where they do have a large presence. It wouldn't be necessary to say he was 'home grown' if he was a Christian fundamentalist. We're a traditionally largely Christian country.

I don't have an agenda.

 

No we are really not a largely christian country.

We are mostly a country of non believers actually.

Mostly just a country whose idea of the world doeznt revolve round a violent religion.

Anyway i cant really be bothered in all truth arguing with you.

You defend the guardian.

A paper which lied about whats really happening in Syria.

A tabloid for neo liberals who wont call wrong without qualifying it.

And your argument takes a tail spin when you use the largely christian country argument.

Islam is in context a foreign religion which is why the rushing to excuse the killer as home grown makes me boak.

[Victorian]

Whataboutery has gone superfly TNT, Guns of the ****ing Navarone when someone is comparing modern day extremism/literalism to the crusades.

 

****s sakes but.

 

[deesidejambo]

This is nothing to do with religion.  Its much bigger than that - its a simple clash of civilisations.  Of ideologies.    The West is hated.

[Private Hudson]

No we are really not a largely christian country.

We are mostly a country of non believers actually.

Mostly just a country whose idea of the world doeznt revolve round a violent religion.

Anyway i cant really be bothered in all truth arguing with you.

You defend the guardian.

A paper which lied about whats really happening in Syria.

A tabloid for neo liberals who wont call wrong without qualifying it.

And your argument takes a tail spin when you use the largely christian country argument.

Islam is in context a foreign religion which is why the rushing to excuse the killer as home grown makes me boak.

Christianity is the largest religion in Britain?

Christianity has been a violent religion in the past?

And again, who is EXCUSING him?! I'm not. The Guardian isn't.

He followed a foreign religion but he was British. Why is that such an issue?

 

 

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[Private Hudson]

Whataboutery has gone superfly TNT, Guns of the ******* Navarone when someone is comparing modern day extremism/literalism to the crusades.

 

****s sakes but.

 

Go on then. What's the difference? The Crusades weren't violent? Tens of thousands weren't killed in the name of Christianity?

 

 

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[jake]

Christianity is the largest religion in Britain?

Christianity has been a violent religion in the past?

And again, who is EXCUSING him?! I'm not. The Guardian isn't.

He followed a foreign religion but he was British. Why is that such an issue?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Christianity for all intent is dead in this country.

Islam is the fastest growing.

You may not be excusing him but you are looking to excuse his religion.

Christianity is still violent.

Christian priests abuse.

 

As do all religious people i suppose.

 

Islam excuses in its teachings any crime against non believers.

Its preached.

Its taught in english islamic schools.

 

 

Why cant we treat muslims fairly like everyone else?

[Shanks]

This is nothing to do with religion. Its much bigger than that - its a simple clash of civilisations. Of ideologies. The West is hated.

 

Its just sheer jealousy. They are jealous of our way of life. Creepy little religious weirdos that can't get a woman to look at them, think the whole world is against them and that its not fair that they have to have a crappy life and follow the rules of a ridiculous made up book.

[jake]

Its just sheer jealousy. They are jealous of our way of life. Creepy little religious weirdos that can't get a woman to look at them, think the whole world is against them and that its not fair that they have to have a crappy life and follow the rules of a ridiculous made up book.

 

A book that excuses supremacy over others.

That condones child abuse and murder.

A book that says so many abhorrent things it could only be written by a paedophile psychotic.

Yet we are to excuse this madness.

 

We are to allow schools to beat children in this country to reinforce its racist teachings.

 

 

Oh and yes the bibles as bad .

But i think most of us have moved on from that.

[Private Hudson]

Christianity for all intent is dead in this country.

Islam is the fastest growing.

You may not be excusing him but you are looking to excuse his religion.

Christianity is still violent.

Christian priests abuse.

 

As do all religious people i suppose.

 

Islam excuses in its teachings any crime against non believers.

Its preached.

Its taught in english islamic schools.

 

 

Why cant we treat muslims fairly like everyone else?

As I said before, I believe all religions are nonsense. However, I know Christians and I know Muslims. None of them are violent or hateful towards me or anyone else that doesn't believe what they do. There is violent doctrine in all religions, even Buddha was an arsehole apparently! Doesn't mean everyone that follows it will act on it.

 

 

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[redm]

[Francis Albert]

Its just sheer jealousy. They are jealous of our way of life. Creepy little religious weirdos that can't get a woman to look at them, think the whole world is against them and that its not fair that they have to have a crappy life and follow the rules of a ridiculous made up book.

Most terrorists including the biggest of them all Osama Bin Laden seem to have had pretty comfortable lives, including on a less elevated scale the Manchester murderer in his decent looking semi in Fallowfield. The myth that they are the victims of disadvantaged backgrounds is not helpful, nor (as the Guardian suggests) is the idea  that our response should be to clamp down on "hate crime" because this is supposedly one of the main things that drives these people to mass murder. The Guardian solution is to win over "marginalised communities" by clamping down on the right wing white racists' incitement (I paraphrase slightly). This seems to me pretty insulting to Muslims.

[Space Mackerel]

No, that's not what I've suggested at all.

Not knowing if it's true or not, but the Independent are quoted as saying his dad informed the authorities he was heading off the rails.

 

 

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[elvoys]

It's far from the only religion that has led to murder on a grand scale is it? You just happen to be living through Islam's murderous misinterpretation now. Ever heard of the Crusades? The Bible isn't too hot on non-believers either. But yeah, ban Muslims.

1. Absolutely not. But its numbers, in Hindu India especially are formidable.

 

2I would genuinely appreciate it if you could explain what is this modern misinterpretation. Muhammed final instruction was to continue expanding till disbelief didn't exist either with jihad or/and hijra (immigration based on his Medina conquest). Its been steady progress since. And apostacy laws, stoning et al have never gone away. Likewise, dhimmitude only ended relatively recently but legally enshrined superiority for Muslims still are common across the Muslim world.

 

3. The Crusades only came about to retrieve trade routes and holy land after Islams advent and sweep. And they were bloody and viscious of ciurse. Bu even after they finished the campaigns into Europe only reached a halt at Vienna gates 500 years later.

 

4. Bible doesn't now or really ever had the same proximity to law as Koran and Hadith. There are theological reasons within such as render onto Caesar which doesn't exist in Koran. But u also have reformation and enlightenment that took it away from power. Ironically the Wahabist reformation of Islam (letting the newly literate connect directly to scripture) is arguably the prob cos of the korans specific warnings to be weary of men (eg state or imam) trying to innovate or temper gods message.

 

The New Testament pacifier doesn't exist in Islam and cancels out a lot of the disbeliever OT stuff.

Also, Islam is the only religion I'm aware of that explicitly sets rules for other religions via Quran.

 

5. Straw man. Only ever said Europe needs to really think v carefully about the pace, level and type of Islamic immigration (ie UAE only give visas to skilled folks and Canada just Syrian families for a reason).

 

For what its worth, on an optimistic note I would love nothing more than to see a Berlin Wall moment in Iran in my lifetime as the symbolism of discarded hijabs might have a ripple effect - who knows.