More Tory lies

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Talking about GBeebies, Eamonn Holmes is the latest old, fat, stupid white man to join that particular circus.

 

The same guy that tried to promote 5G conspiracy theories live on air.

 

Just what GammonTV needs to get those viewing figures up (are they still officialy zero ?). 

[Victorian]

Just saw the CBI speech.  Sorry but the joke's over and enough is enough.  That performance can't be dismissed because the guy's clearly under performing.  Not as a PM.  As a human being.  There's something going on there.

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, it does apply to other countries but the SNP have created a myth about "the Scottish people" as if they speak with one voice.

I'm not sure anyone has to "endure" a Tory govt in Scotland.  All the big decisions and powers rest with Holyrood, indeed its one of the most powerful devolved legislatures in the world.

Supported of course by the additional Barnett funding and other shared expenditure areas like defence coverage etc, which would be substantially more expensive if it had to be provided alone.

Yes, fair enough, that is a credible enough view regarding your reason for supporting evidence.

I just disagree and feel the benefits of the Union substantially trumps any benefit of having all decisions made in Scotland. 

What a cringing post! 

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It has been an oft-repeated soundbite that Holyrood will become "one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world"...

 

Guess who said it ? 

 

 

BoZo?

[Francis Albert]

Scotland before the Union was an impoverished backward irrelevance in European or world terms.Within a few decades of the Union Edinburgh became a true capital of European culture (not like the fake cities of culture invented today). A major centre of the Enlightenment in philosophy. economics, science, medicine, architecture etc etc. Scotland went on to become one of the world centres of the Industrial Revolution and like it or not a huge contributor to the creation of an Empire that straddled a quarter of the globe. Our future may be to become another Latvia or Lithuania which is fair enough. The UK is after all now a second or third tier world power and maybe better for it. 

But the myth of a Scotland as a sort of colony post Union is just that ... a myth.

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It has been an oft-repeated soundbite that Holyrood will become "one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world"...

 

Guess who said it ? 

 

 

 

Ruth?

[Des Lynam]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Scotland before the Union was an impoverished backward irrelevance in European or world terms.

 

Basically what you’re saying is once the threat or more crudely the boot to the neck  was relieved then Scotland flourished. Imagine what we could do with full independence. 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Ruth?

Mundell. 

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Mundell. 

 

thought he was merely repeating what she had said earlier...? Either way same stable.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Just saw the CBI speech.  Sorry but the joke's over and enough is enough.  That performance can't be dismissed because the guy's clearly under performing.  Not as a PM.  As a human being.  There's something going on there.

I'm still struggling with the sheer hopelessness of the man today.

Tip : number the pages of your speech. 

[Japan Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Basically what you’re saying is once the threat or more crudely the boot to the neck  was relieved then Scotland flourished. Imagine what we could do with full independence. 

 

Empty bins, fix potholes, reduce drug deaths, run ambulances?

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Basically what you’re saying is once the threat or more crudely the boot to the neck  was relieved then Scotland flourished. Imagine what we could do with full independence. 

We had full independence before the Union. And we were allied to a European power at least the equal of England. But we remained an impoverished backwater until as you concede we prospered relatively speaking after the Union.

[Des Lynam]

9 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Empty bins, fix potholes, reduce drug deaths, run ambulances?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bin-collections-problems-could-see-21466045.amp

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/03/budget-2020-2-5billion-pledged-to-fix-the-uks-pothole-problem/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-ambulance-emergency-delays-pressure-b1889349.html?amp
 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/drug-related-deaths-hit-record-high-in-england-and-wales-after-rising-for-eighth-year-in-a-row-12371678

 

 

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I'm still struggling with the sheer hopelessness of the man today.

Tip : number the pages of your speech. 

 

He said he thinks it went down well.

 

A CEO in the audience said it was a great speech.

 

[jamboy1982]

Interesting to see the unionists still attempting to convince people that we are better off as part of this sinking ship. The blethering idiot in charge at Westminster has hit yet another low. 
 

it’s not an argument that Scotland can do better with the snp in charge, it’s an argument that Scotland could do better with anyone other than the conveyor belt of awful uk prime ministers. When was last good one? Has there been a good one? Has there been one that has made Scotland better? That’s had Scotland’s interests at heart?

[Japan Jambo]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bin-collections-problems-could-see-21466045.amp

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/03/budget-2020-2-5billion-pledged-to-fix-the-uks-pothole-problem/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-ambulance-emergency-delays-pressure-b1889349.html?amp
 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/drug-related-deaths-hit-record-high-in-england-and-wales-after-rising-for-eighth-year-in-a-row-12371678

 

 

 

I'll pass thanks, but loving the whataboutery!! 🤣

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

He said he thinks it went down well.

 

A CEO in the audience said it was a great speech.

 

The business leader on C4 News not mincing her words , basically not delivering on his commitments to the north and couldn't delver a speech, a speech which showed a lack of respect for his audience. 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bin-collections-problems-could-see-21466045.amp

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/03/budget-2020-2-5billion-pledged-to-fix-the-uks-pothole-problem/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-ambulance-emergency-delays-pressure-b1889349.html?amp
 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/drug-related-deaths-hit-record-high-in-england-and-wales-after-rising-for-eighth-year-in-a-row-12371678

 

 

So some parts of England are doing badly too. Is that the best defence of the devolved Scottish Government you can offer?

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Interesting to see the unionists still attempting to convince people that we are better off as part of this sinking ship. The blethering idiot in charge at Westminster has hit yet another low. 
 

it’s not an argument that Scotland can do better with the snp in charge, it’s an argument that Scotland could do better with anyone other than the conveyor belt of awful uk prime ministers. When was last good one? Has there been a good one? Has there been one that has made Scotland better? That’s had Scotland’s interests at heart?

Fair points but I'm happy for the unionists on here to make their case for Tories/Johnson/their union on this thread. 

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I'll pass thanks, but loving the whataboutery!! 🤣

Context my good man, context. 

[Japan Jambo]

8 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Interesting to see the unionists still attempting to convince people that we are better off as part of this sinking ship. The blethering idiot in charge at Westminster has hit yet another low. 
 

it’s not an argument that Scotland can do better with the snp in charge, it’s an argument that Scotland could do better with anyone other than the conveyor belt of awful uk prime ministers. When was last good one? Has there been a good one? Has there been one that has made Scotland better? That’s had Scotland’s interests at heart?

 

2 of the last 5 were Scottish...

[WorldChampions1902]

25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Scotland before the Union was an impoverished backward irrelevance in European or world terms.Within a few decades of the Union Edinburgh became a true capital of European culture (not like the fake cities of culture invented today). A major centre of the Enlightenment in philosophy. economics, science, medicine, architecture etc etc. Scotland went on to become one of the world centres of the Industrial Revolution and like it or not a huge contributor to the creation of an Empire that straddled a quarter of the globe. Our future may be to become another Latvia or Lithuania which is fair enough. The UK is after all now a second or third tier world power and maybe better for it. 

But the myth of a Scotland as a sort of colony post Union is just that ... a myth.

One of the main reasons for Scotlands ‘impoverished’ pre-Union economy was the fact that England was starting wars with a multitude of European countries which hobbled Scotlands ability to trade (plus ca change!). This was a critical factor at a time when our industrial base was stagnating.
 

To compound matters, the Darien Scheme which was fatally undermined by England right from the start, would prove pivotal in Scotland joining the Union as it would effectively bankrupt the nation. England was never going to stand idly by and allow Scotland to become a threat to its trading position - albeit that the venture was Ill-judged to put it mildly.

 

Generally speaking, plenty of fabulously wealthy industrialists went bankrupt before eventually becoming successful, so who’s to say that Scotland won't flourish under its own steam? The lesson being that having been poor and or unsuccessful isn’t necessarily an indicator of future failure. 
 

The way Clownshoes is performing, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the Scottish electorate decide “enough is enough” and decide to take the plunge. Interesting times.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

2 of the last 5 were Scottish...

 

Yeah, there are Scottish wankers too! At least their attention would actually be on Scotland in a real Scottish parliament, and the Scottish electorate would be able to hold them accountable.

[Konrad von Carstein]

56 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Scotland before the Union was an impoverished backward irrelevance in European or world terms.Within a few decades of the Union Edinburgh became a true capital of European culture (not like the fake cities of culture invented today). A major centre of the Enlightenment in philosophy. economics, science, medicine, architecture etc etc. Scotland went on to become one of the world centres of the Industrial Revolution and like it or not a huge contributor to the creation of an Empire that straddled a quarter of the globe. Our future may be to become another Latvia or Lithuania which is fair enough. The UK is after all now a second or third tier world power and maybe better for it. 

But the myth of a Scotland as a sort of colony post Union is just that ... a myth.

 

Link below doesn't describe the actions or intent of a "impoverished backward irrelevant" country, the scheme failed, however, it was a bold move...

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Darien-Scheme/

Edited November 22, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Link below doesn't describe the actions or intent of a "impoverished backward irrelevant" country, the scheme failed, however, it was a bold move...

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Darien-Scheme/

The intent may have been brave. But it was a disaster by any measure.

As usual of course the English to blame.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Link below doesn't describe the actions or intent of a "impoverished backward irrelevant" country, the scheme failed, however, it was a bold move...

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Darien-Scheme/

The Darien failure was a heavent sent opportunity to eliminate a French/Catholic ally of two of England's biggest/oldest  enemies. 

 

FA knows that of course but spins a different narrative. 

[Alex Kintner]

27 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

Interesting to see the unionists still attempting to convince people that we are better off as part of this sinking ship. The blethering idiot in charge at Westminster has hit yet another low. 
 

it’s not an argument that Scotland can do better with the snp in charge, it’s an argument that Scotland could do better with anyone other than the conveyor belt of awful uk prime ministers. When was last good one? Has there been a good one? Has there been one that has made Scotland better? That’s had Scotland’s interests at heart?

The fantastic thing is that they’re losing that argument and every year that goes by takes us closer to independence. Every year that passes another load of young people become eligible to vote and the percentage of Yes voters increases. Yes to independence and No to being ruled from Westminster by a Prime Minister and a party (Tories or Labour) who see our country as an afterthought.
 

It brings me great joy that even if the next referendum is a narrow loss and doesn’t bring independence then it’s a certainty that in twenty years the demand from those in the 18-40 bracket will make it inevitable. ❤️

[Alex Kintner]

Voting intention ahead of the 2014 referendum:

 

 

Tick tock, tick tock…

[Japan Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Voting intention ahead of the 2014 referendum:

 

 

Tick tock, tick tock…

 

So just another generation to go before the next vote then - about 23 years time or so?

[jamboy1982]

3 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

So just another generation to go before the next vote then - about 23 years time or so?

That would depend on your interpretation of a generation. We all know what the uk governments interpretation is as they stated in other agreements.

[Francis Albert]

It

10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Voting intention ahead of the 2014 referendum:

 

 

Tick tock, tick tock…

And people's views never change as they grow older? Or perhaps wiser.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

So just another generation to go before the next vote then - about 23 years time or so?

2014 result was 55% no, 45% yes.

Opinion polls in last three years have had Yes ahead at times and No ahead at times. Latest is No 51% and Yes 49%.
 

I reckon it will be too close to call if it does happen in 2023. If it doesn’t happen till 2025 or later then it’s in the bag.

 

The generation thing is irrelevant. If there’s a demand for it, it’ll happen. It was promised to be a once in a generation referendum in the same way it was promised a vote for No was a guarantee to stay in the EU.

 

 

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

It

And people's views never change as they grow older? Or perhaps wiser.

Absolutely. Biggest supporters of Independence were the older and wiser 35-44 year olds. 👍🏻

[Japan Jambo]

35 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah, there are Scottish wankers too! At least their attention would actually be on Scotland in a real Scottish parliament, and the Scottish electorate would be able to hold them accountable.

 

Who would be acceptable? Nicola Sturgeon? Alex Salmond? Ruth Davidson? Lorna Slater? Ian Blackford?

[WorldChampions1902]

25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

As usual of course the English to blame.

If, by that statement you are acknowledging the well-documented obstructive conduct of the East India Company (English-owned) and the downright hostility towards the Darien Scheme by the English government, then yes, I would agree with you.

[Alex Kintner]

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I'll pass thanks, but loving the whataboutery!! 🤣

Says the guy bringing up the SG performance on a thread titled More Tory Lies 😂😂😂😂

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Probably not wise to get over excited about the threat to Boris. It might be real.

 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

If, by that statement you are acknowledging the well-documented obstructive conduct of the East India Company (English-owned) and the downright hostility towards the Darien Scheme by the English government, then yes, I would agree with you.

I was of course being ironic. But irony seems to be lost on the anti-English. 

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Probably not wise to get over excited about the threat to Boris. It might be real.

 

 

 

He’s a goner. Might as well enjoy the internal Tory meltdown and all-out warfare amongst their own.

 

Boris strikes me

as the type not to go quietly and he’ll likely bring the whole corrupt house of cards down with him.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It's open season.

 

When Kuenssberg is laying the boot in then you know Spaffer is in the shit.

 

Dead man walking

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

He’s a goner. Might as well enjoy the internal Tory meltdown and all-out warfare amongst their own.

 

Let's just hope they can find someone who knows the difference between right and wrong.

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Let's just hope they can find someone who knows the difference between right and wrong.

It’ll be Sunak unless BJ sinks him on his way out. No secret they detest each other.

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

It’ll be Sunak unless BJ sinks him on his way out. No secret they detest each other.

 

Not sure he's been tested that much, but a fresh slate may be the best bet.

[Lone Striker]

Earlier today this thread was discussing the current UK government's  policy announcements and their poor record so far of implementing them.   BoJo's car crashes, watered down policies, the teachings of Peppa Pig etc.  

 

Should have known it would end up  as a slagging match about IndyRef.    

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Let's just hope they can find someone who knows the difference between right and wrong.

Someone from outwith the Tory party

[Konrad von Carstein]

40 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The intent may have been brave. But it was a disaster by any measure.

As usual of course the English to blame.

You didn't read the link did you!

 

There was an agreement in place, the English reneiged (Johnston sylee)ultimately dooming the expedition to failure.

 

You really can be a self loathing creep of a poster.

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Earlier today this thread was discussing the current UK government's  policy announcements and their poor record so far of implementing them.   BoJo's car crashes, watered down policies, the teachings of Peppa Pig etc.  

 

Should have known it would end up  as a slagging match about IndyRef.    

 

 

No prizes for guessing who steered it in that direction 🙄

[Konrad von Carstein]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I was of course being ironic. But irony seems to be lost on the anti-English. 

No you weren't.

Not anti English you dullard, anti Westminster.

[Des Lynam]