Even More SNP Nonsense

[jake]

I honestly have no idea what you are on about.

 

Sorry.

[jake]

Alphonse.

 

I was trying to say life and wellbeing is measured by more than oil reserve currency

Etc etc.

Its a joke .

 

Sorry im on the downturn

[JamboX2]

The question for me is...if this came from the SNP's own 'growth commission' and it is accurate then why not bury it but instead announce it? Something in it's timing. Nicola is up to something. No way would she knowingly release anything negative unless it suits her plans.

Because the full report hasn't been released yet.

 

However, Andrew Wilson (ex-SNP MSP) who is chairing it has long said the SNP policy here has been bogus. He is also going to report (and its leaking) that the growth strategy and economic plan put forward in 2014 was absolutely atrocious. All based on sky high oil prices which collapsed and an economic agenda which would've been poor.

 

I'd expect a much more austere campaign from the SNP next time out. It'll be played to the heart not the mind. And importantly it'll attack Brexit. In short, this campaign will be much more centre-right leaning in sound than the last one.

 

It may also explain why Swinney was ditched from Finance for Education. Shunt him into a pet project (albeit a hard brief given recent reports on falling standards and teaching numbers) and off the economy where he ballsed up with Eck in 2014.

 

No, this campaign will be centred around Sturgeon, Robertson, Joanna Cherry, Derek MacKay and one or two SNP MPs.

[JamboX2]

The top video is what you want to watch, unless the BRITISH BC changed the link, John Swinney putting Kezia on toast.

Kezia went with the wrong questions (Education would've been better given the SNP lost a vote on it this week and he's Education Minister) however Swinney answred 0 questions and looked unhinged.

 

Are the SNP on Scotland's side with falling education standards and increasingly fragile situations in health?

 

I'm not interested in Scotland. I'm concerned for its people.

[deesidejambo]

Because the full report hasn't been released yet.

 

However, Andrew Wilson (ex-SNP MSP) who is chairing it has long said the SNP policy here has been bogus. He is also going to report (and its leaking) that the growth strategy and economic plan put forward in 2014 was absolutely atrocious. All based on sky high oil prices which collapsed and an economic agenda which would've been poor.

 

I'd expect a much more austere campaign from the SNP next time out. It'll be played to the heart not the mind. And importantly it'll attack Brexit. In short, this campaign will be much more centre-right leaning in sound than the last one.

 

It may also explain why Swinney was ditched from Finance for Education. Shunt him into a pet project (albeit a hard brief given recent reports on falling standards and teaching numbers) and off the economy where he ballsed up with Eck in 2014.

 

No, this campaign will be centred around Sturgeon, Robertson, Joanna Cherry, Derek MacKay and one or two SNP MPs.

There is logic in this. The economic argument is flimsy and they have already said they won't use oil as a revenue basis next time round.

 

Agreed Brexit will be the focus but their problem will be convincing voters that Scotland will get a free pass back into the EU. That is far from as certain as some think.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Sort of right about this time. [emoji2]

 

 

So 50% of those who voted? Not even close to being the same thing.

[Space Mackerel]

So 50% of those who voted? Not even close to being the same thing.

You think whatever you want sunshine.

[Arnold Rothstein]

You think whatever you want sunshine.

Them's the facts spaceface.

[JamboX2]

You think whatever you want sunshine.

No. You are. Given 72% of the population constitute the electorate and the number who vote is never 100% of the electorate it cannot be said 50% of Scotland voted SNP.

 

50% of the voting electorate did.

[Space Mackerel]

Them's the facts spaceface.

No. You are. Given 72% of the population constitute the electorate and the number who vote is never 100% of the electorate it cannot be said 50% of Scotland voted SNP.

 

50% of the voting electorate did.

Kids these days...everything on a plate.

[Beast Boy]

50% of the voting electorate is massive!

 

[Space Mackerel]

50% of the voting electorate is massive!

 

It's game over.

 

Only hope is the postal vote fiddling.

 

Empire v2.0 is finished. Like Rangers FC.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Space Mackerel

[Space Mackerel]

Every house in the U.K. is ?62,000 in debt.

[jake]

Every house in the U.K. is ?62,000 in debt.

 

Nae bother al work a sayterday

[Space Mackerel]

Nae bother al work a sayterday

Better get the overtime sorted.

[jake]

Space makeral.

 

 

Silhouette and shadows

 

 

Its no game.

 

 

barry tune .

 

Money is wprthless

[AlphonseCapone]

Alphonse.

 

I was trying to say life and wellbeing is measured by more than oil reserve currency

Etc etc.

Its a joke .

 

Sorry im on the downturn

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Every house in the U.K. is ?62,000 in debt.

Mine isn't

[Boris]

No its a report of something negative from the guardian regarding brexit.

 

Boris you seem clued up.

 

Its a ###### joke the way the so called left protect an organistion thats so anti working class.

 

But the Guardian didn't write it!  They merley reported what someone else has opined.  Had the Express or Mail printed it, the report would have been the same.

[Boris]

No. You are. Given 72% of the population constitute the electorate and the number who vote is never 100% of the electorate it cannot be said 50% of Scotland voted SNP.

 

50% of the voting electorate did.

 

But it's votes that count.

[jambo lodge]

But it's votes that count.

 

Except in the 2013 referendum.

[jambo lodge]

Except in the 2013 referendum.

 

Should read 2014

[Dawnrazor]

Except in the 2013 referendum.

Exactly.

[Boris]

Kezia went with the wrong questions (Education would've been better given the SNP lost a vote on it this week and he's Education Minister) however Swinney answred 0 questions and looked unhinged.

 

Are the SNP on Scotland's side with falling education standards and increasingly fragile situations in health?

 

I'm not interested in Scotland. I'm concerned for its people.

 

You have a point, but perhaps these would be better addressed in an independent Scotland?

 

The electorate seem to think that the SNP are doing alright, given the figures in the STV local election poll.

[deesidejambo]

You have a point, but perhaps these would be better addressed in an independent Scotland?

 

The electorate seem to think that the SNP are doing alright, given the figures in the STV local election poll.

But is that not their problem? If they are doing well for Scotland under the current arrangement then why vote for Indy?

[Boris]

Except in the 2013 referendum.

 

 

Should read 2014

 

 

Exactly.

 

So that was it, never to be discussed again?

 

Sorry, a throwaway line about once in a generation...

 

If you were around in 1939 you must have been raging at Chamberlain.  "But you said Peace in our time!!!"

 

Things change (Materially!) and so too does politics.

 

As it happens, if there is another referendum I think No will win again.  Margin may be tighter, but still doubt Yes will win.

[Boris]

But is that not their problem? If they are doing well for Scotland under the current arrangement then why vote for Indy?

 

Because they feel they could maybe do even better as an independent nation?

[Dawnrazor]

So that was it, never to be discussed again?

 

Sorry, a throwaway line about once in a generation..

Yep, that's the one.

[Boris]

Yep, that's the one.

 

But then elected on a promise if material change.

 

And we now have material change.  As I've posted before, without Brexit there would be no 2nd indy ref.

 

The Conservative and Unionist Party, in an attempt to sort out their own party failings, have gambled the country's future.  How ironic that they may be responsible for the breakup of the Union.

[deesidejambo]

Because they feel they could maybe do even better as an independent nation?

On what basis? I explain the difference I voting percentage between the elections and Ref as those peeps, like me, who are happy to have SNP to represent them in Westminster but not therefore requiring Independence.

 

The one doesn't necessarily justify the other.

[deesidejambo]

But then elected on a promise if material change.

 

And we now have material change. As I've posted before, without Brexit there would be no 2nd indy ref.

 

The Conservative and Unionist Party, in an attempt to sort out their own party failings, have gambled the country's future. How ironic that they may be responsible for the breakup of the Union.

Exactly. DC rolled the dice one too many times.

[deesidejambo]

So that was it, never to be discussed again?

 

Sorry, a throwaway line about once in a generation...

 

If you were around in 1939 you must have been raging at Chamberlain. "But you said Peace in our time!!!"

 

Things change (Materially!) and so too does politics.

 

As it happens, if there is another referendum I think No will win again. Margin may be tighter, but still doubt Yes will win.

It wasn't a throwaway line though. It was repeated over and over again so often thatvnow there's a YouTube video of it.

 

It was a key part of SNPs campaign.

[Boris]

On what basis? I explain the difference I voting percentage between the elections and Ref as those peeps, like me, who are happy to have SNP to represent them in Westminster but not therefore requiring Independence.

 

The one doesn't necessarily justify the other.

 

I'm not saying that it does.  Conversely there will those who vote SNP because they want independence, or people like myself who would vote YES but have voted Labour at recent elections.

[Boris]

It wasn't a throwaway line though. It was repeated over and over again so often thatvnow there's a YouTube video of it.

 

It was a key part of SNPs campaign.

 

Converse project fear - this is the only chance you'll get so carpe diem people.

 

Oh but wait, Cameron has served up round two on a plate!

[Boris]

It's interesting hearing the (correct) assassination of the last white paper for the 2014 referendum, as this somehow holds any substance for a future ref.

 

Personally, I'll make my vote based on the arguments put forward if/when the next ref is called.

[AlphonseCapone]

Yep, that's the one.

It was Salmond that said it and not Sturgeon.

 

But regardless, when did this become a country where one person could dictate to the rest of us? If I want independence then I won't shut up about it because Salmond deemed it so.

 

It's my life, my freedom and rights to demand whatever I want when I want, not a politician. I might never get it but that's different.

[deesidejambo]

It's interesting hearing the (correct) assassination of the last white paper for the 2014 referendum, as this somehow holds any substance for a future ref.

 

Personally, I'll make my vote based on the arguments put forward if/when the next ref is called.

There's hope for you yet!

[Doogz]

If you were around in 1939 you must have been raging at Chamberlain.  "But you said Peace in our time!!!"

 

That's another one of those commonly misquoted lines - it was actually "peace for our time" - and I think the majority of people were raging at Chamberlain.

However, I do think there is too much focus on the 'once in a generation' comment although it is understandable that people want to move on from the neverendum situation we've pretty much been in since 2014 :  if they go ahead with another referendum in 2018 they should give clearer detail on when or under what conditions any future referendum will take place, should that vote fail.

To be honest, I'm not convinced the SNP really want the vote in 2018 - previously we were told they wanted to see Pro-indy at 60% in the polls before they would want another vote.

I think they're trying to force May to delay it until after Brexit so they have something else to blame WM for.

 

But then elected on a promise if material change.

 

And we now have material change.  As I've posted before, without Brexit there would be no 2nd indy ref.

 

The Conservative and Unionist Party, in an attempt to sort out their own party failings, have gambled the country's future.  How ironic that they may be responsible for the breakup of the Union.

 

For me, we don't have material change until Brexit is completed and more sensible approach for Scotland would be to see where we are post-Brexit so we can make a more informed decision about how the country should move forward then.

[deesidejambo]

That's another one of those commonly misquoted lines - it was actually "peace for our time" - and I think the majority of people were raging at Chamberlain.

However, I do think there is too much focus on the 'once in a generation' comment although it is understandable that people want to move on from the neverendum situation we've pretty much been in since 2014 : if they go ahead with another referendum in 2018 they should give clearer detail on when or under what conditions any future referendum will take place, should that vote fail.

To be honest, I'm not convinced the SNP really want the vote in 2018 - previously we were told they wanted to see Pro-indy at 60% in the polls before they would want another vote.

I think they're trying to force May to delay it until after Brexit so they have something else to blame WM for.

 

 

For me, we don't have material change until Brexit is completed and more sensible approach for Scotland would be to see where we are post-Brexit so we can make a more informed decision about how the country should move forward then.

This is correct but they seem to kept on about Autumn 2018 so they will be under pressure from the dafties to deliver on that.

 

The smarter Nats will know it's better to shut up till they get to 60% but the horse has bolted bow they set a date.

[Boris]

 

For me, we don't have material change until Brexit is completed and more sensible approach for Scotland would be to see where we are post-Brexit so we can make a more informed decision about how the country should move forward then.

 

 

This is correct but they seem to kept on about Autumn 2018 so they will be under pressure from the dafties to deliver on that.

 

The smarter Nats will know it's better to shut up till they get to 60% but the horse has bolted bow they set a date.

 

Is the premise not that by Autumn 2018 we will have a fair idea of what the Brexit settlement will look like, given it wil be 18 months down the lin eout of the 2 year exit period?

[Dawnrazor]

It was Salmond that said it and not Sturgeon.

But regardless, when did this become a country where one person could dictate to the rest of us? If I want independence then I won't shut up about it because Salmond deemed it so.

It's my life, my freedom and rights to demand whatever I want when I want, not a politician. I might never get it but that's different.

It was just one of the lies spouted by both sides in the run up to the referendum, used to lull people into a false security that this would be it for another 30 or so years, through away remark my arse, a calculated statement.

You're rights to fight for independence is something I'd never want to inhibit, just as the right for people to fight to remain as part of the union should also be equally respected.

I'm sure I've seen Nicola Sturgeon say that it should also be a "once in a generation" vote also?

[Doogz]

Is the premise not that by Autumn 2018 we will have a fair idea of what the Brexit settlement will look like, given it wil be 18 months down the lin eout of the 2 year exit period?

 

The way Brexit has been handled so far I'm not convinced we'll have a clear idea of the impacts until well after negotiations are completed. We've been told 2 years but it could take longer ..... and everything so far has taken longer than expected. I wouldn't be surprised if the process is impacted by the elections this year in France, Netherlands & Germany - never mind the calls for 2nd vote here.

[AlphonseCapone]

It was just one of the lies spouted by both sides in the run up to the referendum, used to lull people into a false security that this would be it for another 30 or so years, through away remark my arse, a calculated statement.

You're rights to fight for independence is something I'd never want to inhibit, just as the right for people to fight to remain as part of the union should also be equally respected.

I'm sure I've seen Nicola Sturgeon say that it should also be a "once in a generation" vote also?

Maybe so but as much as folk like us would rather just hear the truth, that isn't what happens in the political world. Look at that bus during the Brexit referendum!

 

I've all the respect in the world for all the decent unionists that make up the majority. We see the path to progress through different lenses, that's all. I've got nothing but contempt for any unionists or nationalists who use the referendum and debate to showcase narrowminded views or hate for others.

 

She might have said it at some point but I don't remember. The comment that is usually referred to is the one from Salmond I believe.

[jack D and coke]

The way Brexit has been handled so far I'm not convinced we'll have a clear idea of the impacts until well after negotiations are completed. We've been told 2 years but it could take longer ..... and everything so far has taken longer than expected. I wouldn't be surprised if the process is impacted by the elections this year in France, Netherlands & Germany - never mind the calls for 2nd vote here.

Not a bad point. I've always said the SNP should've held their tongue a bit. The Dutch and the French could possibly leave and the Italians are getting twitchy about the EU also. It could totally unravel and then where does that leave them?

[Space Mackerel]

Not a bad point. I've always said the SNP should've held their tongue a bit. The Dutch and the French could possibly leave and the Italians are getting twitchy about the EU also. It could totally unravel and then where does that leave them?

I'll still want independence even if the EU breaks up. The Indy movement was in operation way before the creation of the EU.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Thunderstruck]

A throwaway line? Hardly that as it is in the Edinburgh Agreement.

 

Both Salmond and Sturgeon made frequent reference to it and no amount of revisionism by the Rev of Bath and others changes that.

 

The most famous use of the phrase was the Andrew Marr interview when Salmond also said (with no small measure of pomposity) that he would be standing up his Negotiation Team on 19th Sept 2014.

 

Feast your eyes...

 

https://youtu.be/6HyUmDuPa6g

[Doogz]

Maybe so but as much as folk like us would rather just hear the truth, that isn't what happens in the political world. Look at that bus during the Brexit referendum!

 

I've all the respect in the world for all the decent unionists that make up the majority. We see the path to progress through different lenses, that's all. I've got nothing but contempt for any unionists or nationalists who use the referendum and debate to showcase narrowminded views or hate for others.

 

She might have said it at some point but I don't remember. The comment that is usually referred to is the one from Salmond I believe.

 

Yeah, I'd always associated that as a Salmond quote but a quick search found an interview NS ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24147303 ) In the last 30 seconds she uses 'once in a generation' & 'once in a lifetime' and said this is what the SNP has always said. Still, I don't think an answer in an interview needs to become the official party policy - I would just like them to be clearer about this in future if there is a vote in 2018.

[Boris]

A throwaway line? Hardly that as it is in the Edinburgh Agreement.

 

 

 

Referring to the "once in a lifetime"?

 

I've tried to find that in The Edinburgh Agreement, but can't.  Which section is it in?

[Space Mackerel]

Referring to the "once in a lifetime"?

 

I've tried to find that in The Edinburgh Agreement, but can't. Which section is it in?

Game set n match Boris. Well played.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Thunderstruck]

Referring to the "once in a lifetime"?

 

I've tried to find that in The Edinburgh Agreement, but can't. Which section is it in?

Semantics. The clear intent was to signify that the vote would settle the matter for some considerable time. In fact, Salmond referred to the earlier gap between referendums (18 years) in his interview in the final few days before 18 Sept 14.

 

Did you look at the video? Sturgeon seems to have no difficulty interchanging "generation" and "lifetime". Indeed, she said both so often that is baffling that some posters have no recollection of her saying it at all.