Even More SNP Nonsense

[AlphonseCapone]

Semantics. The clear intent was to signify that the vote would settle the matter for some considerable time. In fact, Salmond referred to the earlier gap between referendums (18 years) in his interview in the final few days before 18 Sept 14.

 

Did you look at the video? Sturgeon seems to have no difficulty interchanging "generation" and "lifetime". Indeed, she said both so often that is baffling that some posters have no recollection of her saying it at all.

It's not semantics. You said it was in the Edinburgh agreement. You lied. Pretty simple.

[Boris]

Semantics. The clear intent was to signify that the vote would settle the matter for some considerable time. In fact, Salmond referred to the earlier gap between referendums (18 years) in his interview in the final few days before 18 Sept 14.

 

Did you look at the video? Sturgeon seems to have no difficulty interchanging "generation" and "lifetime". Indeed, she said both so often that is baffling that some posters have no recollection of her saying it at all.

 

Hang on...

 

Quote you "A throwaway line?  Hardly that as it is in the Edinburgh Agreement"

 

Well, it isn't.  Literally.

 

So now you say semantics.  Not sure where this is "enshrined" in the Edinburgh Agreement?

 

Everyone has respected the outcome.  Wishing to hold another referendum is hardly disrespecting the outcome, is it?  Especially since certain things used by the wining side as arguments in their favour have turned out to be false.  

[AlphonseCapone]

Yeah, I'd always associated that as a Salmond quote but a quick search found an interview NS ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24147303 ) In the last 30 seconds she uses 'once in a generation' & 'once in a lifetime' and said this is what the SNP has always said. Still, I don't think an answer in an interview needs to become the official party policy - I would just like them to be clearer about this in future if there is a vote in 2018.

I think another defeat would really kill it for good, whether they make that official I don't know. That's why I'm surprised they seem to be going with 2018 rather than waiting till a strong, consistent poll lead.

[jambo lodge]

I'll still want independence even if the EU breaks up. The Indy movement was in operation way before the creation of the EU.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Thank you for clarifying what "material change " really means , independence at any cost, using any excuse to have the next referendum as soon as possible.  

[deesidejambo]

Game set n match Boris. Well played.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not really. It was stated over and over agin. Repeatedly. So trying to deflect it to a "throwaway line" is misleading.

 

But you keep on deflecting.

[deesidejambo]

I think another defeat would really kill it for good, whether they make that official I don't know. That's why I'm surprised they seem to be going with 2018 rather than waiting till a strong, consistent poll lead.

Indeed they have set themselves up for climbdown now. If she starts deflecting from that she will lose more credibility.

[Thunderstruck]

Hang on...

 

Quote you "A throwaway line? Hardly that as it is in the Edinburgh Agreement"

 

Well, it isn't. Literally.

 

So now you say semantics. Not sure where this is "enshrined" in the Edinburgh Agreement?

 

Everyone has respected the outcome. Wishing to hold another referendum is hardly disrespecting the outcome, is it? Especially since certain things used by the wining side as arguments in their favour have turned out to be false.

If I may quote from one of your posts from this morning:-

 

Sorry, a throwaway line about once in a generation...

 

I don't think you will find that I used "lifetime " in my post. You seem to have leapt to a conclusion.

 

But, I do apologise for referencing the Edinburgh Agreement when, in fact, I meant the White Paper.

 

Despite the fact that the White Paper was riddled with falsehood, that is clear indication of the view if the author. I am sure you do need to be reminded of the name of the Minister responsible.

[deesidejambo]

Hang on...

 

Quote you "A throwaway line? Hardly that as it is in the Edinburgh Agreement"

 

Well, it isn't. Literally.

 

So now you say semantics. Not sure where this is "enshrined" in the Edinburgh Agreement?

 

Everyone has respected the outcome. Wishing to hold another referendum is hardly disrespecting the outcome, is it? Especially since certain things used by the wining side as arguments in their favour have turned out to be false.

Take a look at the YouTube link.

 

Unless I'm also mistaken it's written into the White Paper.

 

It was never a "throwaway line"

[AlphonseCapone]

Take a look at the YouTube link.

 

Unless I'm also mistaken it's written into the White Paper.

 

It was never a "throwaway line"

I think we can all agree it wasn't a "throwaway line" but it also wasn't a legally binding commitment.

[Doogz]

Take a look at the YouTube link.

 

Unless I'm also mistaken it's written into the White Paper.

 

It was never a "throwaway line"

 

Yup - 'once in a generation ' makes 3 appearances in the White Paper

[doctor jambo]

If you take the demands for a second referendum to its logical conclusion then insanity awaits us all.

What you have is a minority political movement CONSTANTLY pushing the same thing that was democratically rejected and are going to continue to do so.

There have now been 2 referenda, same outcome in both. Now facing a third. Seriously? If they want another they should pay for it themselves, and it should be requiring a 60 % in favour or something

[Space Mackerel]

If I may quote from one of your posts from this morning:-

 

 

I don't think you will find that I used "lifetime " in my post. You seem to have leapt to a conclusion.

 

But, I do apologise for referencing the Edinburgh Agreement when, in fact, I meant the White Paper.

 

Despite the fact that the White Paper was riddled with falsehood, that is clear indication of the view if the author. I am sure you do need to be reminded of the name of the Minister responsible.

What about the SNP manifesto about a clear and material change?

 

Does that not count?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[deesidejambo]

 

 

If you take the demands for a second referendum to its logical conclusion then insanity awaits us all.

What you have is a minority political movement CONSTANTLY pushing the same thing that was democratically rejected and are going to continue to do so.

There have now been 2 referenda, same outcome in both. Now facing a third. Seriously? If they want another they should pay for it themselves, and it should be requiring a 60 % in favour or something

Either way Scotland is divided and the divisions will be driven deeper. And deeper.

[Space Mackerel]

Either way Scotland is divided and the divisions will be driven deeper. And deeper.

Nah they won't. Here's why.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[deesidejambo]

I think we can all agree it wasn't a "throwaway line" but it also wasn't a legally binding commitment.

Nobody said it was. Will be interesting to see how Nicola handles this aspect in the current campaign, which she has tacitly started off,

[JamboX2]

You have a point, but perhaps these would be better addressed in an independent Scotland?

 

The electorate seem to think that the SNP are doing alright, given the figures in the STV local election poll.

The electorate believe the SNP are doing alright because the debate in Scotland is will there/won't there be a vote. The parties opposing independence and the UK government should just say 'Ok have it. We will legislate for it and we hold it'. Undercuts the SNPs arguments on mandate (as you accept their right to hold one) and it prevents them stoking grievance over being denied the chance.

 

As for domestic issues - they are what will win or hinder the SNP and independence long term. They should either say "look at all these changes we want to make because they'll work well here, but we want to do more" or "we cannot do more and we need the powers". Instead there is a basic dishonesty here about the EU. Yes it's a big change but we voted for the UK and this was a UK wide vote. Either make the most of it by demanding more powers or get off the stage. Many of their own supporters backed leave and that is being disregarded.

 

In effect, we are now in a place where the next referendum is a choice of two unions. Which begs the question, what price independence?

[AlphonseCapone]

Nobody said it was. Will be interesting to see how Nicola handles this aspect in the current campaign, which she has tacitly started off,

Thunderstruck made the error of mixing up the white paper and the Edinburgh agreement. I just think it's important to highlight the differences between the two. They aren't comparable documents.

 

I feel like she is backing herself into a corner but at the same time, she has always struck me as a smart operator (even her biggest critics can admit that I think?) so the other part of me feels there must be something more to it all.

[Doogz]

The electorate believe the SNP are doing alright because the debate in Scotland is will there/won't there be a vote. The parties opposing independence and the UK government should just say 'Ok have it. We will legislate for it and we hold it'. Undercuts the SNPs arguments on mandate (as you accept their right to hold one) and it prevents them stoking grievance over being denied the chance.

 

As for domestic issues - they are what will win or hinder the SNP and independence long term. They should either say "look at all these changes we want to make because they'll work well here, but we want to do more" or "we cannot do more and we need the powers". Instead there is a basic dishonesty here about the EU. Yes it's a big change but we voted for the UK and this was a UK wide vote. Either make the most of it by demanding more powers or get off the stage. Many of their own supporters backed leave and that is being disregarded.

 

In effect, we are now in a place where the next referendum is a choice of two unions. Which begs the question, what price independence?

 

Yup - that's pretty much where I'm at with all this.

[JamboX2]

You have a point, but perhaps these would be better addressed in an independent Scotland?

 

The electorate seem to think that the SNP are doing alright, given the figures in the STV local election poll.

The electorate believe the SNP are doing alright because the debate in Scotland is will there/won't there be a vote. The parties opposing independence and the UK government should just say 'Ok have it. We will legislate for it and we hold it'. Undercuts the SNPs arguments on mandate (as you accept their right to hold one) and it prevents them stoking grievance over being denied the chance.

 

As for domestic issues - they are what will win or hinder the SNP and independence long term. They should either say "look at all these changes we want to make because they'll work well here, but we want to do more" or "we cannot do more and we need the powers". Instead there is a basic dishonesty here about the EU. Yes it's a big change but we voted for the UK and this was a UK wide vote. Either make the most of it by demanding more powers or get off the stage. Many of their own supporters backed leave and that is being disregarded.

 

In effect, we are now in a place where the next referendum is a choice of two unions. Which begs the question, what price independence?

[doctor jambo]

What about the SNP manifesto about a clear and material change?

 

Does that not count?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Nope.

Having been given a humiliating beating in the last one they should not have even had it on their manifesto.

And it was a humiliating defeat, crushing and deflating.

Hopes pulped, dreams withering and fading to dust

Salmond taking the long walk into the Accursed Earth , his final reputation being as the man who lost.

Similar oblivion awaits la Sturgeon

Lose, and you quit.

[Space Mackerel]

Nope.

Having been given a humiliating beating in the last one they should not have even had it on their manifesto.

And it was a humiliating defeat, crushing and deflating.

Hopes pulped, dreams withering and fading to dust

Salmond taking the long walk into the Accursed Earth , his final reputation being as the man who lost.

Similar oblivion awaits la Sturgeon

Lose, and you quit.

I can feel your pain from here, best you visit a doctor and get it checked out [emoji106]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[deesidejambo]

Thunderstruck made the error of mixing up the white paper and the Edinburgh agreement. I just think it's important to highlight the differences between the two. They aren't comparable documents.

 

I feel like she is backing herself into a corner but at the same time, she has always struck me as a smart operator (even her biggest critics can admit that I think?) so the other part of me feels there must be something more to it all.

She is def a good orator like Eck. But when it gets down to it the voters need more than a strong orator.

 

I am not sure there is an underlying strategy. I think she is genuinely trapped by the Brexit vote which forced the issue and provided the material change on a plate for her.

 

She was right onto it the day after Brexit vote but when the polls then showed no change she was stopped in her tracks.

 

I think she is tied into something she didn't want at this time.

[Boris]

She is def a good orator like Eck. But when it gets down to it the voters need more than a strong orator.

 

I am not sure there is an underlying strategy. I think she is genuinely trapped by the Brexit vote which forced the issue and provided the material change on a plate for her.

 

She was right onto it the day after Brexit vote but when the polls then showed no change she was stopped in her tracks.

 

I think she is tied into something she didn't want at this time.

 

I don't entirely disagree with you there, given her attempts to mitigate Brexit through all sorts of methods to get concessions for Scotland.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in Northern Ireland over the next two years as well.  The recent election there and Brexit could lead to some interesting times.  Ironic if they end up leaving the Union first!

[doctor jambo]

I can feel your pain from here, best you visit a doctor and get it checked out [emoji106]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm not sore, we won....

But what we have been left with is a political minority trying to impose their views on everyone else

[deesidejambo]

I don't entirely disagree with you there, given her attempts to mitigate Brexit through all sorts of methods to get concessions for Scotland.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in Northern Ireland over the next two years as well. The recent election there and Brexit could lead to some interesting times. Ironic if they end up leaving the Union first!

I can't see NI leaving the Union without a major punch-up. There are serious hardcore dafties on either side.

 

Let's hope Scotland doesn't descend to the same level of division but I worry that it may.

[Boris]

I'm not sore, we won....

But what we have been left with is a political minority trying to impose their views on everyone else

 

Isn't that how minority govt's work?  I mean, anything they get passed must be a "polityical minority imposing its view"?

 

Also, we are all talking about this, but the bill to hold a referendum would have to be passed at Holyrood.  So let's assume all the unionist parties vote against it and all the pro independence parties vote for it.  Who wins?  Who has the majority?

[Boris]

I can't see NI leaving the Union without a major punch-up. There are serious hardcore dafties on either side.

 

Let's hope Scotland doesn't descend to the same level of division but I worry that it may.

 

Yeah, I doubt it will happen, but for the first time ever there isn't a Unionist majorty at Stormont.

 

No signs of a power sharing deal, so direct rule looks likely.

 

Sinn Fein of course are represented in the Republic's parliament and will have an ear on  Brexit negotiations.  Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.  Could we see a realpolitik movement toward a united ireland?

[jambo lodge]

I don't entirely disagree with you there, given her attempts to mitigate Brexit through all sorts of methods to get concessions for Scotland.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in Northern Ireland over the next two years as well.  The recent election there and Brexit could lead to some interesting times.  Ironic if they end up leaving the Union first!

 

" mitigate Brexit"......what on earth does that mean when negotiations have not yet started.The SNP call it a hard Brexit for their own purposes. Only today Guy Verhofstadt has come out to say that Brits should be able to retain all the rights of EU citizenship post Brexit, including travel etc. Hardly a picture of a hard Brexit emerging.  

[deesidejambo]

Yeah, I doubt it will happen, but for the first time ever there isn't a Unionist majorty at Stormont.

 

No signs of a power sharing deal, so direct rule looks likely.

 

Sinn Fein of course are represented in the Republic's parliament and will have an ear on Brexit negotiations. Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU. Could we see a realpolitik movement toward a united ireland?

I'd be surprised. When asked to weigh up the Union or the EU I'd say NI will go with the Union. It's interesting that they, like Scotland, now has potentially to sacrifice one for the other. As a whole that is.

 

Added is the shakiness of the EU nowadays so I think there are more shockwaves yet to come.

 

Meanwhile Scotland divides further.

[Space Mackerel]

Thank you for clarifying what "material change " really means , independence at any cost, using any excuse to have the next referendum as soon as possible.

I've been a SNP supporter all my adult life bar once in 1997.

I haven't become a Yes voter because of Brexit.

 

Tell you what, instead of moaning at Sturgeon, if you value the Yoonion that much, then you would be better getting on at Maggie May and tell her to open her lugs.

[Space Mackerel]

I'm not sore, we won....

But what we have been left with is a political minority trying to impose their views on everyone else

Correct, the Tories and Labour have 2 MP's combined.

 

Are you really a doctor? I thought they were meant to be brainy?

[deesidejambo]

Correct, the Tories and Labour have 2 MP's combined.

 

Are you really a doctor? I thought they were meant to be brainy?

I think he meant Holyrood where SNP are a minority Govt.

 

And I expect that as a Doctor he is likely to be brainier than you. Unless it's to do with boiler servicing.

[Space Mackerel]

I think he meant Holyrood where SNP are a minority Govt.

 

And I expect that as a Doctor he is likely to be brainier than you. Unless it's to do with boiler servicing.

For the ****ing final time! Sorry to swear.

 

Holyrood is meant to produce minority governments!!

 

Get that in your head. IT IS NOT A FIRST PAST THE POST SYSTEM!

[deesidejambo]

For the ******* final time! Sorry to swear.

 

Holyrood is meant to produce minority governments!!

 

Get that in your head. IT IS NOT A FIRST PAST THE POST SYSTEM!

So we agree Dr was correct.

 

And btw is it possible to support two seperate hot water tanks from a single boiler? Do they need seperate connections or will a y-piece do it?

[Space Mackerel]

So we agree Dr was correct.

 

And btw is it possible to support two seperate hot water tanks from a single boiler? Do they need seperate connections or will a y-piece do it?

doctor doom is grasping at straws I'm afraid. He knows the Yoon party is over.

[deesidejambo]

doctor doom is grasping at straws I'm afraid. He knows the Yoon party is over.

Well at least he proved to be brainier than you.

 

You give me boiler advice and I"ll sub you a half_price ski lesson.

[Space Mackerel]

Well at least he proved to be brainier than you.

 

You give me boiler advice and I"ll sub you a half_price ski lesson.

If I was a heating engineer I wouldn't have my pal coming round at 5 today to replace the rad in the bathroom.

And I can ski pretty well thanks, learned in 2nd year at school in Aviemore.

[Space Mackerel]

 

Just found this, that Tory revival is something else eh?

Astounding what the MSM portray as truth.

[deesidejambo]

 

Just found this, that Tory revival is something else eh?

Astounding what the MSM portray as truth.

And 2016?

[doctor jambo]

It may be a political minority in the Yes/No sense, but as we have seen at the general election it is a very large and significantly  powerful group, unlike all the divisions within the No side.

 

It is by a way the largest political group within Scotland, it is not a surprise they are able to influence the direction of politics in Scotland.

I know this

In the same way that there is no effective opposition in England you have large ruling parties stamping all over everyone

The lack of a viable alternative means that the SNP is really the only party worth voting for in Scotland, which, sadly, means the SNP think they have a mandate for independence

I don't vote Tory, nor Libdem, nor Green and Labour are simply an utter mess

Who's left?

Yet if you vote SNP as the least worst, or least incompetent, they think you have voted for them to get independence........

Its not even really fair on the SNP, who are kind of being mis lead themselves

[Space Mackerel]

And 2016?

There wasn't a GE in 2016. Im assuming you're referring to Murdo Fraser who has never won a single seat outright in his life?

[deesidejambo]

I know this

In the same way that there is no effective opposition in England you have large ruling parties stamping all over everyone

The lack of a viable alternative means that the SNP is really the only party worth voting for in Scotland, which, sadly, means the SNP think they have a mandate for independence

I don't vote Tory, nor Libdem, nor Green and Labour are simply an utter mess

Who's left?

Yet if you vote SNP as the least worst, or least incompetent, they think you have voted for them to get independence........

Its not even really fair on the SNP, who are kind of being mis lead themselves

No they will know about this. The dafties on this thread won't understand this though. Hence Nicola coming under pressure from all sides now.

[doctor jambo]

There wasn't a GE in 2016. Im assuming you're referring to Murdo Fraser who has never won a single seat outright in his life?

The other thing about the graph is showing the effect the crash of 2008 had - with voters deserting the mainstream parties and reverting to Nationalism.

This is pan-global , and the failure of the world to recover has seen the rise of populist nationalism , including our own SNP

[AlphonseCapone]

Yeah, I doubt it will happen, but for the first time ever there isn't a Unionist majorty at Stormont.

 

No signs of a power sharing deal, so direct rule looks likely.

 

Sinn Fein of course are represented in the Republic's parliament and will have an ear on Brexit negotiations. Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU. Could we see a realpolitik movement toward a united ireland?

Really can't see it. But who knows these days!

 

It's none of my business, well it is in one personal way actually, but I'd be delighted to see it happen.

[Space Mackerel]

The other thing about the graph is showing the effect the crash of 2008 had - with voters deserting the mainstream parties and reverting to Nationalism.

This is pan-global , and the failure of the world to recover has seen the rise of populist nationalism , including our own SNP

What a load of nonsense, the Yes movement, and I read and stream live meetings regularly and this has never been brought up to my knowledge.

You're just repeating parrot fashion guff on the BBC and the General MSM.

[Don Dan]

Sturgeon's FAILURE in Spain: Trip to gain EU single market support given short shrift.

 

NICOLA Sturgeon?s SNP has failed to win friends in Spain after a trip to garner support for Scotland going it alone in the EU single market.

The party?s Europe spokesman Stephen Gethins travelled to Madrid to tell Spanish MPs Scotland?s bid to keep single market status was very different from Catalonia?s independence claims.

 

He also wanted to give reassurances the SNP will remain neutral on Catalan independence.

 

The SNP fears Spain would block an independent Scotland?s application to join the EU in case it gave encouragement to its own pro-independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon sent Stephen Gethins to Madrid but he was given short shrift by the Spaniards

And it appears willing to turn its back on the Catalans in exchange for Spanish backing in Brussels.

 

But Mr Gethins trip to Spain was hardly a roaring success. He met centre-left Socialist and far-left Podemos MPs but no one from Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy?s conservative Popular Party was free to talk, Politico reported.

 

Only three journalists showed up to a press conference he had arranged after his meetings in congress.

Unfortunately for the SNP, the Scottish question is a non-issue in Spain where Gibraltar is a far more pressing concern.

 

The Spanish priority is to make sure no part of the UK gets special treatment from the EU during the Brexit negotiations because one of the Catalan separatists? claims is that they will be able to leave Spain without leaving the EU.

Spain dislikes any secessionist movement and does not even acknowledge Kosovo as an independent country.

 

So it highly likely that Madrid would opposes EU membership for an independent Scotland should it ever break from the UK.

 

And given that one reason independence is rising up the agenda back in Britain is that 62 per cent of Scots backed staying in the EU in last June?s referendum, Spanish opposition to the SNP?s cause will be problematic back in Edinburgh.

 

It follows Spanish MEP Maite Pagazaurtunduam leading a crusade against Catalonian independence. Spanish representatives branded the break away "illegal".

 

She said: ?I hope that they are not received as usual by European Parliament leaders, given the lies they have told through pure propaganda to get there.

 

"They have lied even about their own record, since they are ministers of a country that does not exist. It is very absurd.?

 

 

 

 

 

Scotland's no chance of getting into or staying in the EU if Scotland ever had the misfortune to vote for independence.

Sturgeon kept that visit to Spain quiet Sent home to think again!

[Doogz]

 

Just found this, that Tory revival is something else eh?

Astounding what the MSM portray as truth.

 

The graph is slightly misleading as %ages don't truly reflect the impact of voter turnout - they've had a steady increase in the number of voters over the last 4 GE's:

 

2001           2005             2010            2015

360,658     369,388         412,855       434,097

15.6            15.8              16.7             14.9

 

*It makes the SNP increase all the more impressive:

464,314      412,267         491,386       1,454,436

20.1              17.7             19.9             49.97

 

 

The other thing about the graph is showing the effect the crash of 2008 had - with voters deserting the mainstream parties and reverting to Nationalism.

This is pan-global , and the failure of the world to recover has seen the rise of populist nationalism , including our own SNP

 

I'm not sure if the crash led to voters deserting the other parties - but it did allow the SNP to attract a lot of votes by campaigning to "protect scotland from austerity"

[deesidejambo]

Sturgeon's FAILURE in Spain: Trip to gain EU single market support given short shrift.

 

NICOLA Sturgeon?s SNP has failed to win friends in Spain after a trip to garner support for Scotland going it alone in the EU single market.

The party?s Europe spokesman Stephen Gethins travelled to Madrid to tell Spanish MPs Scotland?s bid to keep single market status was very different from Catalonia?s independence claims.

 

He also wanted to give reassurances the SNP will remain neutral on Catalan independence.

 

The SNP fears Spain would block an independent Scotland?s application to join the EU in case it gave encouragement to its own pro-independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon sent Stephen Gethins to Madrid but he was given short shrift by the Spaniards

And it appears willing to turn its back on the Catalans in exchange for Spanish backing in Brussels.

 

But Mr Gethins trip to Spain was hardly a roaring success. He met centre-left Socialist and far-left Podemos MPs but no one from Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy?s conservative Popular Party was free to talk, Politico reported.

 

Only three journalists showed up to a press conference he had arranged after his meetings in congress.

Unfortunately for the SNP, the Scottish question is a non-issue in Spain where Gibraltar is a far more pressing concern.

 

The Spanish priority is to make sure no part of the UK gets special treatment from the EU during the Brexit negotiations because one of the Catalan separatists? claims is that they will be able to leave Spain without leaving the EU.

Spain dislikes any secessionist movement and does not even acknowledge Kosovo as an independent country.

 

So it highly likely that Madrid would opposes EU membership for an independent Scotland should it ever break from the UK.

 

And given that one reason independence is rising up the agenda back in Britain is that 62 per cent of Scots backed staying in the EU in last June?s referendum, Spanish opposition to the SNP?s cause will be problematic back in Edinburgh.

 

It follows Spanish MEP Maite Pagazaurtunduam leading a crusade against Catalonian independence. Spanish representatives branded the break away "illegal".

 

She said: ?I hope that they are not received as usual by European Parliament leaders, given the lies they have told through pure propaganda to get there.

 

"They have lied even about their own record, since they are ministers of a country that does not exist. It is very absurd.?

 

 

 

 

 

Scotland's no chance of getting into or staying in the EU if Scotland ever had the misfortune to vote for independence.

Sturgeon kept that visit to Spain quiet Sent home to think again!

Source? When?

 

Defo not The National

[Space Mackerel]

Sturgeon's FAILURE in Spain: Trip to gain EU single market support given short shrift.

 

NICOLA Sturgeon?s SNP has failed to win friends in Spain after a trip to garner support for Scotland going it alone in the EU single market.

The party?s Europe spokesman Stephen Gethins travelled to Madrid to tell Spanish MPs Scotland?s bid to keep single market status was very different from Catalonia?s independence claims.

 

He also wanted to give reassurances the SNP will remain neutral on Catalan independence.

 

The SNP fears Spain would block an independent Scotland?s application to join the EU in case it gave encouragement to its own pro-independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon sent Stephen Gethins to Madrid but he was given short shrift by the Spaniards

And it appears willing to turn its back on the Catalans in exchange for Spanish backing in Brussels.

 

But Mr Gethins trip to Spain was hardly a roaring success. He met centre-left Socialist and far-left Podemos MPs but no one from Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy?s conservative Popular Party was free to talk, Politico reported.

 

Only three journalists showed up to a press conference he had arranged after his meetings in congress.

Unfortunately for the SNP, the Scottish question is a non-issue in Spain where Gibraltar is a far more pressing concern.

 

The Spanish priority is to make sure no part of the UK gets special treatment from the EU during the Brexit negotiations because one of the Catalan separatists? claims is that they will be able to leave Spain without leaving the EU.

Spain dislikes any secessionist movement and does not even acknowledge Kosovo as an independent country.

 

So it highly likely that Madrid would opposes EU membership for an independent Scotland should it ever break from the UK.

 

And given that one reason independence is rising up the agenda back in Britain is that 62 per cent of Scots backed staying in the EU in last June?s referendum, Spanish opposition to the SNP?s cause will be problematic back in Edinburgh.

 

It follows Spanish MEP Maite Pagazaurtunduam leading a crusade against Catalonian independence. Spanish representatives branded the break away "illegal".

 

She said: ?I hope that they are not received as usual by European Parliament leaders, given the lies they have told through pure propaganda to get there.

 

"They have lied even about their own record, since they are ministers of a country that does not exist. It is very absurd.?

 

 

 

 

 

Scotland's no chance of getting into or staying in the EU if Scotland ever had the misfortune to vote for independence.

Sturgeon kept that visit to Spain quiet Sent home to think again!

?10 that's from the Daily Express or Mail?

[Don Dan]

?10 that's from the Daily Express or Mail?

Daily Express.

 

 

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