Even More SNP Nonsense

[doctor jambo]

Ach, I just think it's a bit rich that Spacey gets kicked about like a football for his posts and folk like the Doc make worse accusations and normally don't get pulled up for it.

I haven't kicked Spacey about, I asked for a coherent economic argument for independence to sway the middle classes.

 

Or even await reassurance that I will not be taxed to hell to repay the Indy voters post referendum.

 

Because the masses need their reward for showing faith- right?

 

And the cost will be an increase in money at the bottom funded by tax hikes everywhere else- because that's "fair"

[Boris]

I wouldn't be so sure.  

 

Now that Brexit is done there is no place in UK politics for UKIp so they are rebranding themselves as the party of the working man.  I think Tories may respond eventually but the sad thing is Corbyn is destroying Labour in the meantime so the working people may end up at worst unrepresented but certainly with their vote split.   Who wins in this case?  The Tories!

 

I thought we were referring to Scotland only?  What you say may well be true of the rUK (ok, England & Wales) but in Scotland where do they go?  Tory?  I'm not o sure.  Green? Maybe, Lib Dem?  Well, the STV poll also showed the voting intentions at the local elections.

 

Greens now 4th on 8% above Lib Dems.  The RESURGENT Tories are second.

 

SECOND!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With 19%

 

Second.  With 19%

 

Resurgent, indeed.

[Sraman]

I haven't kicked Spacey about, I asked for a coherent economic argument for independence to sway the middle classes.

 

Or even await reassurance that I will not be taxed to hell to repay the Indy voters post referendum.

 

Because the masses need their reward for showing faith- right?

 

And the cost will be an increase in money at the bottom funded by tax hikes everywhere else- because that's "fair"

 

Are you saying the only way to get a fair share of that pot is to vote yes?

[doctor jambo]

Are you saying the only way to get a fair share of that pot is to vote yes?

What pot?

You mean for some folks to be handed more money they didn't earn, but was  earned by someone else because seemingly after the Govt has taken it off you it becomes the "states money"?

By "pot" you mean the wages of ALL EARNERS that will be seized to compensate for our banjoed economy to continue fuelling the Scots socialist myth, and that everyone out there is DESPERATE to look for a job and just needs more money from others' pay packets, then the world will be healed, and its the low benefits that are preventing them working in the tens of thousands of jobs that are filled by Poles, Lithuanians etc

Then yes- I mean that pot

[Dawnrazor]

What pot?

You mean for some folks to be handed more money they didn't earn, but was  earned by someone else because seemingly after the Govt has taken it off you it becomes the "states money"?

By "pot" you mean the wages of ALL EARNERS that will be seized to compensate for our banjoed economy to continue fuelling the Scots socialist myth, and that everyone out there is DESPERATE to look for a job and just needs more money from others' pay packets, then the world will be healed, and its the low benefits that are preventing them working in the tens of thousands of jobs that are filled by Poles, Lithuanians etc

Then yes- I mean that pot

[Sraman]

What pot?

You mean for some folks to be handed more money they didn't earn, but was  earned by someone else because seemingly after the Govt has taken it off you it becomes the "states money"?

By "pot" you mean the wages of ALL EARNERS that will be seized to compensate for our banjoed economy to continue fuelling the Scots socialist myth, and that everyone out there is DESPERATE to look for a job and just needs more money from others' pay packets, then the world will be healed, and its the low benefits that are preventing them working in the tens of thousands of jobs that are filled by Poles, Lithuanians etc

Then yes- I mean that pot

 

 

So you're voting yes this time then. Good man.

[jambo lodge]

If that is the primary argument then it's a shit one, imo.  

 

Secondly, the working class will lfeel more secure in a May led Brexit Britain?  Really?

 

 

Your first answer is the kind of answer that comes from those who thrive on grievance politics

 

You would have to define " working class"  Those who work and earn money are more likely to judge the economic merits of staying with the UK and being free to trade with the outside world. What's the alternative , a Scotland hoping to stay within an ever more integrated Europe? Good luck in presenting the economic argument for that.    

[jack D and coke]

Probably trade and borrowing as well as asking corporations and wealthy folk to pay their share of tax. Same as most developed countries in the world I would imagine.

Although I agree why wouldn't some companies just pop their HQ over the border and pay less? Same with wealthy individuals I mean if you voted No and it was Yes and then the Scottish government then announced your tax was being raised significantly I think these people would up sticks.

I can see where Doctor Jambo is coming from in all this tbh, there doesn't really seem to be anything coherent other than being able to just be Scottish instead of British.

I honestly think the SNP are a bit of a hinderance to gaining independence at times.

[Stuart Lyon]

Haymarket Jambo - not worried at all - would just like to know how this won't develop into a vicious circle of votes for independence or staying in the Union. 

[Boris]

Your first answer is the kind of answer that comes from those who thrive on grievance politics

 

You would have to define " working class"  Those who work and earn money are more likely to judge the economic merits of staying with the UK and being free to trade with the outside world. What's the alternative , a Scotland hoping to stay within an ever more integrated Europe? Good luck in presenting the economic argument for that.    

 

 

"But you said once in a LIFETIME!" - is that not grievance politics in a nutshell?

 

You are also making an awful lot of assumptions about where an independent Scotland would be.  Would it be in the EU?  WOuld that be the question?  Would an independent Scotland need another ref this time on membership of EU/EFTA/EEA whatever?  that would be my choice, and would be the smart move of the YES campaign  to do it that way, IMO.

[Boris]

I haven't kicked Spacey about, I asked for a coherent economic argument for independence to sway the middle classes.

 

Or even await reassurance that I will not be taxed to hell to repay the Indy voters post referendum.

 

Because the masses need their reward for showing faith- right?

 

And the cost will be an increase in money at the bottom funded by tax hikes everywhere else- because that's "fair"

 

You assume that the SNP would form the first independent Scottish Government?

[deesidejambo]

You assume that the SNP would form the first independent Scottish Government?

Don't care as long as Mhairi Black doesn't become FM

[Harry Potter]

Haymarket Jambo - not worried at all - would just like to know how this won't develop into a vicious circle of votes for independence or staying in the Union. 

Should be a vote on the indy 2 vote, if it should happen, but hey ho, , wonder if another EU vote will happen, 

[XB52]

What pot?

You mean for some folks to be handed more money they didn't earn, but was  earned by someone else because seemingly after the Govt has taken it off you it becomes the "states money"?

By "pot" you mean the wages of ALL EARNERS that will be seized to compensate for our banjoed economy to continue fuelling the Scots socialist myth, and that everyone out there is DESPERATE to look for a job and just needs more money from others' pay packets, then the world will be healed, and its the low benefits that are preventing them working in the tens of thousands of jobs that are filled by Poles, Lithuanians etc

Then yes- I mean that pot

I love it when the unionists come out asking for facts to support Independence, but come out with crap like this, a load of unsubstantiated garbage and they all lap it up.

[jambo lodge]

 

"But you said once in a LIFETIME!" - is that not grievance politics in a nutshell?

 

You are also making an awful lot of assumptions about where an independent Scotland would be.  Would it be in the EU?  WOuld that be the question?  Would an independent Scotland need another ref this time on membership of EU/EFTA/EEA whatever?  that would be my choice, and would be the smart move of the YES campaign  to do it that way, IMO.

 

Grievance politics.......no just calling out a downright lie.

 

Keep asking more questions, saves you and several others on here from answering difficult ones.

[deesidejambo]

I love it when the unionists come out asking for facts to support Independence, but come out with crap like this, a load of unsubstantiated garbage and they all lap it up.

All that's needed is a defined costed economic policy specifying fiscal regime and which currency will be used and all will be well.

[doctor jambo]

You assume that the SNP would form the first independent Scottish Government?

Who else ?

SLAB?

I'm not sure it even matters....... whoever its going to be, its going to be massive cuts, or tax hikes, or some kind of economic miracle that no other country has thought of.

[Boris]

Who else ?

SLAB?

I'm not sure it even matters....... whoever its going to be, its going to be massive cuts, or tax hikes, or some kind of economic miracle that no other country has thought of.

 

A bit like Brexit Britain then?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/mar/09/circumstances-have-moved-on-hammond-defends-breaking-tory-manifesto-promise-on-nics-politics-live?page=with:block-58c155afe4b0f24dba72347a#block-58c155afe4b0f24dba72347a

[Boris]

Grievance politics.......no just calling out a downright lie.

 

Keep asking more questions, saves you and several others on here from answering difficult ones.

 

Like the Tory party manifesto on not raising NIC's?

 

Like voting No at the last referendum to keep EU membership safe and secure?

 

As i posted earlier, had there not been a committment to an EU referendum in the tory manifesto in 2015, then the SNP wouldn't have added the material change biot leading to another indy ref in their Scottish Parliament manifesto ( a manifesto voted for by 46.5% of those that cast their votes in the first vote, 41.7% second vote)  We also have a prliament that has a majority of pro-independence MSPs so arguably they have a mandate.

 

Had the Brexit vote been for remain, we wouldn't be discussing this.

[Boris]

 

Keep asking more questions, saves you and several others on here from answering difficult ones.

 

Ask a proper one then. 

[deesidejambo]

Ask a proper one then.

If there was an IndyRef and it was likely that Indy Scotland would not be admitted to the EU, how would you vote?

[doctor jambo]

Ask a proper one then. 

OK - how is the Scottish economy going to sustain its current spending levels going forward, even  presuming our share of the UK debt is zero?

[Boris]

If there was an IndyRef and it was likely that Indy Scotland would not be admitted to the EU, how would you vote?

Yes.

[deesidejambo]

Yes.

******* I had a quid on you would say No.

[Boris]

OK - how is the Scottish economy going to sustain its current spending levels going forward, even presuming our share of the UK debt is zero?

That I don't know but then I'm not an economist.

[jambo lodge]

Like the Tory party manifesto on not raising NIC's?

 

Like voting No at the last referendum to keep EU membership safe and secure?

 

As i posted earlier, had there not been a committment to an EU referendum in the tory manifesto in 2015, then the SNP wouldn't have added the material change biot leading to another indy ref in their Scottish Parliament manifesto ( a manifesto voted for by 46.5% of those that cast their votes in the first vote, 41.7% second vote)  We also have a prliament that has a majority of pro-independence MSPs so arguably they have a mandate.

 

Had the Brexit vote been for remain, we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

You are na?ve in the extreme if you believe that the SNP are only asking for a referendum because of the EU referendum. The sole mission of the SNP is to gain independence at any cost, through grievance politics. The EU referendum and the so called "material change" is just the latest excuse...... yesterday's budget, defence spending, nuclear power, they would try to make any issue into a material change for their purposes. Yesterday the Holyrood parliament upheld a no confidence vote about the state of Education in this country, today its the Police computer system ?60m which is scrapped because of incompetence. And what does Nicola and chums want to talk about ....independence!!    

[doctor jambo]

That I don't know but then I'm not an economist.

And neither are the folks who will be voting.

 

They will however be led on with promises of milk and honey.

 

End to austerity and cash pouring into our beleaguered welfare state from an as yet untapped source

 

As if being Scottish makes up for us all being equal- equally poor that is............

[Beast Boy]

Yeah that Brexit vote is just a piddling little triviality which hasn't fundamentally changed the entire direction of UK politics. SNP clearly making a mountain out of a molehill.

[deesidejambo]

Yeah that Brexit vote is just a piddling little triviality which hasn't fundamentally changed the entire direction of UK politics. SNP clearly making a mountain out of a molehill.

And i lost ?300 on it on Betfair. Little Englanders.

[Space Mackerel]

Perhaps for you and a few others who want independence at any price. The majority last time and again this time will listen and weigh up the arguments. Would be a brave person to argue economically for independence within Europe for Scotland. I note Juncker now wants to

set up an EU army........that will go down well.

As the US becomes more isolated then I can see the sense of the EU forming its own army.

What you have now is Russia, China, the EU and the US as the major players/super states. It's not hard to understand the reasoning behind it.

[Beast Boy]

And i lost ?300 on it on Betfair. Little Englanders.

[deesidejambo]

As the US becomes more isolated then I can see the sense of the EU forming its own army.

What you have now is Russia, China, the EU and the US as the major players/super states. It's not hard to understand the reasoning behind it.

The last thing the world needs is another ****ing Army. **** that.

[Space Mackerel]

spaced oot comes away with a loada lies copied from his master, when asked for the facts to back his comments he avoids answering.

 

everybody else tries to back up their point, and everybody is free to poke holes in this, boris tries.

 

and your still whafting that big spoon aboot, you could have ago at clarifying his points.

 

he used to have aussie,backing his comments, which just made them look worse, so he's been free from that burden for a few days now.

We have been Internet skelping you from the date of inception of this thread. It become tiresome repeating the same things over and over again.

[Space Mackerel]

in which way ? a copy 'n' paste from wings, is nothing but where he got his info from, it doesn't back up his rants.

 

if he came out with his own points and debated them, maybe he would be taken more seriously, but he copies n paste the runs away, changing the subject.

 

if you go to the independence thread you'll find that spaced oot and his pals were the mud slingers, way before this started.

Pesky things these "jobs"

Sort of get in the way of posting on here.

[deesidejambo]

Pesky things these "jobs"

Sort of get in the way of posting on here.

But were you not out unblocking someone's lavvy? Took you long enough.

[Space Mackerel]

But were you not out unblocking someone's lavvy? Took you long enough.

Cmon man, I'm a highly trained, specialised electrical/mechanical engineer. I'm nowhere near the DE social group.

[doctor jambo]

But were you not out unblocking someone's lavvy? Took you long enough.

Probably Nicola's the amount of shit she comes out with is unreal

[deesidejambo]

Cmon man, I'm a highly trained, specialised electrical/mechanical engineer. I'm nowhere near the DE social group.

Neither are plumbers. I forgot you were loaded.

[deesidejambo]

Neither are plumbers. I forgot you were loaded.

Just curious how much do you weigh?

[jack D and coke]

If there was an IndyRef and it was likely that Indy Scotland would not be admitted to the EU, how would you vote?

I'd only vote Yes next time if, amongst some other things we started with a blank canvas tbh. Then a vote on EU membership otherwise we aren't really going independent are we. It's one of my biggest bugbears with the SNP that we are all totally committed to being in the EU.

[Space Mackerel]

Just curious how much do you weigh?

Whit?

[jack D and coke]

Whit?

Seems he asked himself that question[emoji23]

[deesidejambo]

I'd only vote Yes next time if, amongst some other things we started with a blank canvas tbh. Then a vote on EU membership otherwise we aren't really going independent are we. It's one of my biggest bugbears with the SNP that we are all totally committed to being in the EU.

This is why the recent poll shows only 28% of voters will defo vote Yes. We need to know before the vote if Indy Scotland would be admitted. But that is impossible to answer so voting will have to be done on assumptions that may not materialise.

 

Only a moron would vote Yes with such massive uncertainty for the future.

[doctor jambo]

I'd only vote Yes next time if, amongst some other things we started with a blank canvas tbh. Then a vote on EU membership otherwise we aren't really going independent are we. It's one of my biggest bugbears with the SNP that we are all totally committed to being in the EU.

I agree.

 

I don't see the point.

despite being a "remainer" I can see some gains in Brexit.

The UK is a HUGE economy and has things like a currency, and will be getting back small issues for Scotland- like our fishing grounds

 

Why break out then tie ourselves to the EU?

[deesidejambo]

Seems he asked himself that question[emoji23]

My bad. Spacey how much do you weigh? Roughly.

[Space Mackerel]

Seems he asked himself that question[emoji23]

You know me personally pal, do you think my bum looks big in my jeans? [emoji15]

[jack D and coke]

This is why the recent poll shows only 28% of voters will defo vote Yes. We need to know before the vote if Indy Scotland would be admitted. But that is impossible to answer so voting will have to be done on assumptions that may not materialise.

 

Only a moron would vote Yes with such massive uncertainty for the future.

If I'm honest though I can't see any reason why we wouldn't be admitted. For all intents and purposes we've been in it for 40 years, adhere to all the rules and regulations, we have thousands of EU citizens already here etc etc etc.

It's all a bit silly to suggest we'd have to wait years, go to the back of the queue and all that nonsense.

Imo anyway.

[deesidejambo]

If I'm honest though I can't see any reason why we wouldn't be admitted. For all intents and purposes we've been in it for 40 years, adhere to all the rules and regulations, we have thousands of EU citizens already here etc etc etc.

It's all a bit silly to suggest we'd have to wait years, go to the back of the queue and all that nonsense.

Imo anyway.

Any Country can veto and Spain already said they would.

 

Admission would come at a price - fishing water access and use the Euro,

[jack D and coke]

You know me personally pal, do you think my bum looks big in my jeans? [emoji15]

Only when you've got yir wallet in yir back pocket.

[jack D and coke]

Any Country can veto and Spain already said they would.

 

Admission would come at a price - fishing water access and use the Euro,

Personally I don't think they would but if they did then I don't see it as such a bad thing anyway. And this adopting the euro is another red herring. You sign up but don't ever have to actually adopt it. Like a few countries have already done.