jambo lodge Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Although the Nationalism in Scotland is not the same as most other countries, even a hardened Unionist must see that. It is not about protectionism or Scotland First, although I accept some Yes voters will hold those views, that is not what the majority of the Independence movement is about. It's Scotland's Oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Tories doing all they can to pesh off a lot of people up here and in England too. May helping the SNP cause down south and Corbyn alienating a lot of Labour voters, what party is going to benefit up here, what party has the % of votes up here to really hammer the cause for an alternative to the never ending Tory austerity polices and public cuts?? If Labour fail to take back the vote up here and the Tories continue with their inhuman austerity polices sooner or later the people of Scotland will vote with the only anti Torie/austerity party up here, the SNP. Expenses of Mhairi Black in 2016 ?70,000 plus. Holyrood has the power to raise taxes and alleviate cuts to the public sector, the SNP choose not to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The National is the ONLY pro Independence newspaper in the whole of the UK. You lot moan about having an effective opposition but these same rules don't apply in the media? Jeeeeeeeeez, another clanger from the Yoons. You are a fool. Everybody recognises the bias in papers and takes that into account when analysing and coming to conclusion. Everybody except you. You are trapped inside your own prejudice. For normal peeps - will be interesting to see how the visit is reported, by both sides. But the visit did happen so Spacey can't deny that. He will try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 You are a fool. Everybody recognises the bias in papers and takes that into account when analysing and coming to conclusion. Everybody except you. You are trapped inside your own prejudice. For normal peeps - will be interesting to see how the visit is reported, by both sides. But the visit did happen so Spacey can't deny that. He will try. Mothy was right, the anger in the Yoon posts are something else. So that's another fact debunked on here, Spain won't get in the way. I bet you, reaths and Dannie Boy will be feeling a little less smug tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Mothy was right, the anger in the Yoon posts are something else. So that's another fact debunked on here, Spain won't get in the way. I bet you, reaths and Dannie Boy will be feeling a little less smug tonight So the visit was a success then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I think this might help you Spacey. Shame for the Yoons though... If that puts to bed the notion that Scotland would be vetoed then good. I've never believed they'd keep us out, it was, imo anyway a No side of the argument lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 They've told the SNP to bolt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Seems not my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If that puts to bed the notion that Scotland would be vetoed then good. I've never believed they'd keep us out, it was, imo anyway a No side of the argument lie. It was never going to happen, the daft Yoons latched on to a comment from a character that had the same pedigree as Farage over here and took it for gospel. Their arguments are littered with falsehoods and lies. Just like in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It was never going to happen, the daft Yoons latched on to a comment from a character that had the same pedigree as Farage over here and took it for gospel. Their arguments are littered with falsehoods and lies. Just like in 2014. The same Farage that delivered the Brexit victory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The same Farage that delivered the Brexit victory? The very same Farage who's pushed up the Indy vote to over 50% now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The very same Farage who's pushed up the Indy vote to over 50% now Looks like you didn't manage to see the other results of that poll. Silly boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Looks like you didn't manage to see the other results of that poll. Silly boy. Still wanting indyref2 now? Looks like there's an upward trend since 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The same Nigel Farage who made "immigrant" a dirty word. The same Nigel Farage who had people turning on their neighbours and blaming them for the mess of the economy. The same Nigel Farage who was desperate to get out of politics and back to being a "businessman" after he'd helped demolish many of annoying obstacles that stand in the way of profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The same Nigel Farage who made "immigrant" a dirty word. The same Nigel Farage who had people turning on their neighbours and blaming them for the mess of the economy. The same Nigel Farage who was desperate to get out of politics and back to being a "businessman" after he'd helped demolish many of annoying obstacles that stand in the way of profits. Strange bunch these supposed SNP voters who embrace Farage as well. I think I smell shite :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Strange bunch these supposed SNP voters who embrace Farage as well. I think I smell shite :-/ The two parties have such diametrically opposing views on immigration, equality and Europe, that it comes as a bit of a surprise to me too, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Still wanting indyref2 now? Looks like there's an upward trend since 2014 Yes please! What you are unable to understand is the very same poll that you quote shows the yoon voters who will vote No regardless of Brexit or any other influence is 38% whilst the Nat equivalent is 28% The remainder are undecided (although when you look at the undecided split in the same poll it calculates out at 53/47 in favour of No) Anyway for yes to win they need the undecideds to add another 23% to their 28% to get to 51% whilst for No they only need 13%. In other words Yes need to get 67% of the Undecideds. Quite a challenge, and all from the same poll you quote. By now Spacey will be confused and will try to deflect but the poll is quite illuminating in terms of how many votes are already "locked in", including mine and his, and how many are up for grabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yes please! What you are unable to understand is the very same poll that you quote shows the yoon voters who will vote No regardless of Brexit or any other influence is 38% whilst the Nat equivalent is 28% The remainder are undecided (although when you look at the undecided split in the same poll it calculates out at 53/47 in favour of No) Anyway for yes to win they need the undecideds to add another 23% to their 28% to get to 51% whilst for No they only need 13%. In other words Yes need to get 67% of the Undecideds. Quite a challenge, and all from the same poll you quote. By now Spacey will be confused and will try to deflect but the poll is quite illuminating in terms of how many votes are already "locked in", including mine and his, and how many are up for grabs. So after that diatribe, the Yes vote is over 50%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 So after that diatribe, the Yes vote is over 50%? I knew you wouldn't understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I knew you wouldn't understand it. I think you're having trouble with the most basic of maths in all honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I think you're having trouble with the most basic of maths in all honesty. Look at the poll details. The data is there as I posted. But.you can't understand that the poll you quote goes into detail on the undecideds which is where the issue will be ultimately decided. Don't read on Spacey, it's beyond you. For normal people - The poll shows 38% of the electorate is locked in to No. 28% is locked into Yes. These are the peeps who will simply not change their vote. Spacey for Yes and me for No as examples. The rest are undecided. If the undecideds fall 50/50 thenNo is miles ahead. For Yes to win the Undecideds need to be 67%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Look at the poll details. The data is there as I posted. But.you can't understand that the poll you quote goes into detail on the undecideds which is where the issue will be ultimately decided. Don't read on Spacey, it's beyond you. For normal people - The poll shows 38% of the electorate is locked in to No. 28% is locked into Yes. These are the peeps who will simply not change their vote. Spacey for Yes and me for No as examples. The rest are undecided. If the undecideds fall 50/50 thenNo is miles ahead. For Yes to win the Undecideds need to be 67%. Maybe if you write it in purple crayon and post a picture of it it might help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Still wanting indyref2 now? Looks like there's an upward trend since 2014 You are only fooling yourself and your equally credulous gang of separatists. The only reliable evidence Is the long term, high-quality, face-to-face Scottish Social Attitudes Survey (SSSA) which indicates support for independence sits at 33-35% where it has been for many years, only managing to sneak up to 39% - briefly in 2013 - before a settling marginally above par at 37% on the day of the referendum. Sturgeon and Co. would do well to heed this poll instead of the paid-for surveys where the piper calls the tune. If she does, she will no there is a long way to go to get to a solid footing for a poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Maybe go onto the BBC iplayer and watch tonight's Reporting Scotland. It has a very interesting interview with the Spanish government? Edited March 10, 2017 by HaymarketJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Maybe if you write it in purple crayon and post a picture of it it might help? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Maybe go onto the BBC iplayer and watch tonight's Reporting Scotland. It has a very interesting interview with the Spanish government? Indeed. But I thought the BBC were all MSM liars? Or is that only when they report something Spacey doesn't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The two parties have such diametrically opposing views on immigration, equality and Europe, that it comes as a bit of a surprise to me too, tbh. Voting to leave does not mean a vote for ukip Neither doez a vote for independence equate a snp vote. Do you not believe that a vote for leave and independence are compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Voting to leave does not mean a vote for ukip Neither doez a vote for independence equate a snp vote. Do you not believe that a vote for leave and independence are compatible. I know at least one SNP voting Independence man, who doesn't want Scotland in the EU. I think it is a tricky one however. It was Brexit which was the catalyst for us having another IndyRef. Whether the YES voters want it or not, it is why we are getting another crack at Indy. If it was up to me, I'd have the IndyRef and then a Scottish referendum on whether we should be in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I know at least one SNP voting Independence man, who doesn't want Scotland in the EU. I think it is a tricky one however. It was Brexit which was the catalyst for us having another IndyRef. Whether the YES voters want it or not, it is why we are getting another crack at Indy. If it was up to me, I'd have the IndyRef and then a Scottish referendum on whether we should be in the EU. A sequential referendum would not be workable as it would mean some voters would have to guess the outciome of the second before casting their votes on the first. For example if you are a Leave and you anticipate Indy Scotland could vote Remain you may choose to vote No to preclude this even if you prefer Indy. It's a matter of deciding which of the two is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 A sequential referendum would not be workable as it would mean some voters would have to guess the outciome of the second before casting their votes on the first. For example if you are a Leave and you anticipate Indy Scotland could vote Remain you may choose to vote No to preclude this even if you prefer Indy. It's a matter of deciding which of the two is more important. I think most Yes supporters know the answer to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If it was up to me, I'd have the IndyRef and then a Scottish referendum on whether we should be in the EU.Yeah exactly and imo that's where the snp go wrong and annoy me a bit tbh. It's all about their vision of independence. It's not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yeah exactly and imo that's where the snp go wrong and annoy me a bit tbh. It's all about their vision of independence. It's not mine. Yeah, you have a similar opinion to a mate of mine. Problem is though dude, there wouldn't be another stab at this if there hadn't been a Brexit vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yeah, you have a similar opinion to a mate of mine. Problem is though dude, there wouldn't be another stab at this if there hadn't been a Brexit vote.Yeah I know pal and tbh I wasn't that bothered about it but if it's independence you want then you have to offer it not some halfway house. If the majority voted to join the EU after that then again fair enough I'd accept it. If I'm totallly honest though I think we had our vote and lost and I'm quite content to let it be I don't believe it should be ran over and over again until you get the answer you want. I also appreciate things have changed since the first one but I still think No will win if there is another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yeah I know pal and tbh I wasn't that bothered about it but if it's independence you want then you have to offer it not some halfway house. If the majority voted to join the EU after that then again fair enough I'd accept it. If I'm totallly honest though I think we had our vote and lost and I'm quite content to let it be I don't believe it should be ran over and over again until you get the answer you want. I also appreciate things have changed since the first one but I still think No will win if there is another one. I've no idea why you of all people get hung up about the EU, we have had this debate personally for years now. There is a difference between 1 supposed equal Yoonion and another one. https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/the-cow-in-the-caravan/ All explained above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yeah I know pal and tbh I wasn't that bothered about it but if it's independence you want then you have to offer it not some halfway house. If the majority voted to join the EU after that then again fair enough I'd accept it. If I'm totallly honest though I think we had our vote and lost and I'm quite content to let it be I don't believe it should be ran over and over again until you get the answer you want. I also appreciate things have changed since the first one but I still think No will win if there is another one. Unfortunately, I totally agree that it will be a no vote. I'm not happy admitting that, I just think that's what will happen again. One way or another. I'll take any opportunity we can get to have another stab at it though. Just being honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I've no idea why you of all people get hung up about the EU, we have had this debate personally for years now. There is a difference between 1 supposed equal Yoonion and another one. https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/the-cow-in-the-caravan/ All explained above. Im not hung up about it at all. I don't like it's creeping into every countries affairs and the power to overrule your decisions. It has its plus points too absolutely but the world is ever changing and it was becoming too overpowering and undemocratic for me. I'm too tired to think about it all tonight I'm off to my bed pal[emoji1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Unfortunately, I totally agree that it will be a no vote. I'm not happy admitting that, I just think that's what will happen again. One way or another. I'll take any opportunity we can get to have another stab at it though. Just being honest. No way it will be a No vote next time, even the bookies have it odds on and it's 50/50 right now. The trend is upwards as the nawbags pass on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Im not hung up about it at all. I don't like it's creeping into every countries affairs and the power to overrule your decisions. It has its plus points too absolutely but the world is ever changing and it was becoming too overpowering and undemocratic for me. I'm too tired to think about it all tonight I'm off to my bed pal[emoji1] Sweet dreams of straight bananas and floods of migrants banging at your door for a place to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the SNP have any sense they will delay any push for independence for a couple of years. By that time the effects of Brexit will have kicked in and shown to be the disaster it is. The Scottish people will be having to put up with effects of a decision which was not ours. People will realize that as usual it matters not a sook what Scotland wants or needs the wishes of the larger nation down south will always prevail. The choice will be clear, endless Tory governments catering for middle England because the Labour party are so divided. Or running our own country to our benefit . The result will be a Yes vote so decisive to end all argument. Patience is the key this bunch of losers in Westminster will hand Independence to us on a plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Unfortunately, I totally agree that it will be a no vote. I'm not happy admitting that, I just think that's what will happen again. One way or another. I'll take any opportunity we can get to have another stab at it though. Just being honest. Aye all fair enough man. Tbh it's maybe best it was a no last time considering what was on the table i.e. our money tied to the BOE and the supposed oil money. They can't get stuck on those topics anymore they have to lay it out from day one not give you A,B,C,D etc. Nail it down from the beginning and if it's going to be some hardship then don't bullshit about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the SNP have any sense they will delay any push for independence for a couple of years. By that time the effects of Brexit will have kicked in and shown to be the disaster it is. The Scottish people will be having to put up with effects of a decision which was not ours. People will realize that as usual it matters not a sook what Scotland wants or needs the wishes of the larger nation down south will always prevail. The choice will be clear, endless Tory governments catering for middle England because the Labour party are so divided. Or running our own country to our benefit . The result will be a Yes vote so decisive to end all argument. Patience is the key this bunch of losers in Westminster will hand Independence to us on a plate. Exactly this, no rush yet to name a new indyref2, patience is the key. I hope Oor Nic doesn't get pressurised into anything at the Spring conference, make them sweat like **** in no 10 for another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the SNP have any sense they will delay any push for independence for a couple of years. By that time the effects of Brexit will have kicked in and shown to be the disaster it is. The Scottish people will be having to put up with effects of a decision which was not ours. People will realize that as usual it matters not a sook what Scotland wants or needs the wishes of the larger nation down south will always prevail. The choice will be clear, endless Tory governments catering for middle England because the Labour party are so divided. Or running our own country to our benefit . The result will be a Yes vote so decisive to end all argument. Patience is the key this bunch of losers in Westminster will hand Independence to us on a plate. That's what I've said all along since brexit happened. Incidentally I voted for brexit but I believe Nicola Sturgeon should've kept her powder dry and see how it turned out not go head first into another indyref without knowing how things are going to turn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Aye all fair enough man. Tbh it's maybe best it was a no last time considering what was on the table i.e. our money tied to the BOE and the supposed oil money. They can't get stuck on those topics anymore they have to lay it out from day one not give you A,B,C,D etc. Nail it down from the beginning and if it's going to be some hardship then don't bullshit about it. Be honest about hardship says the pro Brexit voter. Good yin. [emoji2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Be honest about hardship says the pro Brexit voter. Good yin. [emoji2] You see the future aye?[emoji1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Of course not, but I can see a lot of hypocrisy in your posts [emoji2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Of course not, but I can see a lot of hypocrisy in your posts [emoji2]You've got to be kidding me? You see no threat or downside from Scotland leaving the United Kingdom yet are a doom monger where brexit is concerned. At least I voted to leave both[emoji1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 You've got to be kidding me? You see no threat or downside from Scotland leaving the United Kingdom yet are a doom monger where brexit is concerned. At least I voted to leave both[emoji1] Threat? What threat? Strong words. Youve been watching a bit too much of the MSM pal. No ones answered this on this thread, not one Yoon or floater. I'll repeat: If Scotland is so shite, why are they in Westminster desperate to hang on to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Aye all fair enough man. Tbh it's maybe best it was a no last time considering what was on the table i.e. our money tied to the BOE and the supposed oil money. They can't get stuck on those topics anymore they have to lay it out from day one not give you A,B,C,D etc. Nail it down from the beginning and if it's going to be some hardship then don't bullshit about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Threat? What threat? Strong words. Youve been watching a bit too much of the MSM pal. No ones answered this on this thread, not one Yoon or floater. I'll repeat: If Scotland is so shite, why are they in Westminster desperate to hang on to us? You do deflect a lot of questions btw. Ok I used the word threat maybe I meant possible downsides or pitfalls of Independence whereas you make there will never be any but brexit is a total catastrophe? How is that? I've never seen you answer that one myself. Even the snp admit we have a large defecit now and they have to tell us how they're intend to plug it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 You do deflect a lot of questions btw. Ok I used the word threat maybe I meant possible downsides or pitfalls of Independence whereas you make there will never be any but brexit is a total catastrophe? How is that? I've never seen you answer that one myself. Even the snp admit we have a large defecit now and they have to tell us how they're intend to plug it. 5 million highly educated people can't look and manage themselves with this amount of natural resources. Scotland isn't some sort of backwater banana Republic that's been torn by war or whatever. I'll tell you what, you name any country you want within the same geographic position and population size and say they are a basket case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) 5 million highly educated people can't look and manage themselves with this amount of natural resources. Scotland isn't some sort of backwater banana Republic that's been torn by war or whatever. I'll tell you what, you name any country you want within the same geographic position and population size and say they are a basket case. You're deflecting again[emoji1]You answer questions with questions. I never suggested Scotland was a banana republic I just asked why you see no risk for Scotland to go it alone but brexit is the end of the world. I seen risk in both scenarios but still voted for both. You voted one out and one remain but maintain one has no risk and the other is doom. I don't get that and you never answer it despite me asking you over and over. Scotland has 5 million highly educated lol I think you overestimate our populations intelligence myself but ok I'll let that one go. Britain doesn't have 60 million highly educated? They all daftys when you get past Berwick or something? It's very arrogant and another character flaw of the SNP imo that somehow we are morally superior and more intelligent than those south of the border. The SNP really rip my Jimmy's. Anyway enjoy the game the day I'll give you a bell later[emoji1360] Edited March 11, 2017 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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