Even More SNP Nonsense

[Boris]

If there is a 2nd referendum and Yes wins can the No voters ask for a third referendum and we keep going until the whole idea falls into disrepute or will the SNP insist that if they win it is the sovereign will of ra people!

 

If YES wins, and Scotland becomes independent, then I don't see why there couldn't be a Unionist party agitating for a referendum on whether Scotland should join in Union with rUK.  That's democracy!

 

Whether rUK would want Scotland to join is another question...

[doctor jambo]

The SNP didn't really do that though.  They just decided to maintain the status quo.

 

Arguably Westminster made Scotland the highest taxed by reducing the top rate of income tax.

 

If the SNP govt had increased the top rate, then I'd agree with you.

IN the last 3 weeks I have been notified of the following

Council tax up by 12.5 % due to new SNP policy

THEN council ltax up by 3% due to the council raising it

THEN my NI will be going up along with everyone else self employed

On top of the SNP non-reduction

- if anyone thinks on this background that I will vote myself into possibly another recession......

[cuthy2k]

"once in a generation event". 2.5yrs ago. uh-hu, 

 

Definition of a generation:

A generation is "all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively." It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children of their own."

 

So because the SNP didn't get their way, they want to have ANOTHER disruptive and dividing vote within 4 years of the last one. Get on with governing the country, improving education, the NHS and Policing as a start! Come back in 24 years with your planning and plans for ref2 and stick to your word. Such a narrow-one minded party. 

[Beast Boy]

possibly because the indy's wont do this either............. I have every right to mention it, in just the same way you can ref to Yoons, TOries and Toffs.

The last ref the SNP managed to mobilise the disaffected in the same manner that UKIP did in England

BUT the big difference was that they were promising global trade, economic freedom and financial claw back from the EU so the middle classes ( or some of them) bought it.

the SNP are doing nothing of that

There is no financial reason why I would vote for independence

And there will be many like me - give me a solid reason why it will improve my life, and I'm in

See this is what I mean. I've not used any of those terms here. Now you're just angrily posting presumptuous shit about UKIP comparisons. I've stated many times on this thread already, that it's about identity and emotional attachment for me, as well as a dislike for the rhetoric and direction of mainstream U.K. Politics, I don't feel as though the direction the majority of the rUK want to go in is for me.

 

Calling folk plebs and comparing them to UKIP is just crass and you clearly are t listening to people when they tell you their reasons.

[Doogz]

Arguably Westminster made Scotland the highest taxed by reducing the top rate of income tax.

 

 

That seems a fairly specious argument as the decision not to implement the tax cut was made at Holyrood

[doctor jambo]

See this is what I mean. I've not used any of those terms here. Now you're just angrily posting presumptuous shit about UKIP comparisons. I've stated many times on this thread already, that it's about identity and emotional attachment for me, as well as a dislike for the rhetoric and direction of mainstream U.K. Politics, I don't feel as though the direction the majority of the rUK want to go in is for me.

 

Calling folk plebs and comparing them to UKIP is just crass and you clearly are t listening to people when they tell you their reasons.

That is fine, but I view the constant banging of the independence drum tiresome and divisive.

THey had it, they lost.

End of story

Sadly its the only thing the SNP have.

And they ARE very similar to UKIP.

Populist Nationalism

[Beast Boy]

That is fine, but I view the constant banging of the independence drum tiresome and divisive.

THey had it, they lost.

End of story

Sadly its the only thing the SNP have.

And they ARE very similar to UKIP.

Populist Nationalism

See there you go again. If you stripped out the prejudice, anger and obtuse insinuations about two completely different types of 'nationalism', then that reply could have just read:

 

I find the constant banging of the Independence drum tiresome and divisive.

 

To which my equally calm and legitimate response would be:

 

Of course Independence is divisive, that is the whole point. It's divisive at a member state level however, as that is what Independence would involve. The divisions of opinion between the people who live in the member state who would become independent are already divided pretty much down the middle, and have been and will remain so whether Scotland is part of the UK or not.

[doctor jambo]

See there you go again. If you stripped out the prejudice, anger and obtuse insinuations about two completely different types of 'nationalism', then that reply could have just read:

 

I find the constant banging of the Independence drum tiresome and divisive.

 

To which my equally calm and legitimate response would be:

 

Of course Independence is divisive, that is the whole point. It's divisive at a member state level however, as that is what Independence would involve. The divisions of opinion between the people who live in the member state who would become independent are already divided pretty much down the middle, and have been and will remain so whether Scotland is part of the UK or not.

I don't see the difference between UKIP and the SNP.

I see them as being very similar

Fuel Nationalism

Promise different

Reinforce differences between peoples based on some racial identity myth

Constantly blame another parliament for your woes whilst not accepting any responsibility for it yourself

 

If the SNP stopped it, people would settle down again and get on with their lives, apart from a few, who were always about.

The referendum CAUSED a lot of this divisive nationalism

And that's what it is

Just because the indy campaigners don't want to see parallels does not mean there aren't any

[Space Mackerel]

50/50

It's going to be a rout!

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382623-stv-poll-half-of-scots-would-vote-for-independence/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Beast Boy]

I don't see the difference between UKIP and the SNP.

I see them as being very similar

Fuel Nationalism

Promise different

Reinforce differences between peoples based on some racial identity myth

Constantly blame another parliament for your woes whilst not accepting any responsibility for it yourself

 

If the SNP stopped it, people would settle down again and get on with their lives, apart from a few, who were always about.

The referendum CAUSED a lot of this divisive nationalism

And that's what it is

Just because the indy campaigners don't want to see parallels does not mean there aren't any

Your first part of that post is so churlish and obtuse. Just so utterly ignorant on purpose. To try and make such a link is frankly pathetic and a real slap in the face to anyone who votes SNP but does not hate people based on their ethnicity. The fact that it's coming from a doctor is actually a little disturbing.

 

The divisions have always been there. Just because half of the population want an independent Scotland but are part of a Scotland in the U.K. does not mean they are any happier than if the same split existed in an independent Scotland. For you to just assume the majority of these people are 'plebs' who only feel this way because Nicola Surgeon has told them to, is about as intentionally ignorant as your first part of the post about UKIP.

Edited March 9, 2017 by The Earl of Mothsbery

[doctor jambo]

Your first part of that post is so churlish and obtuse. Just so utterly ignorant on purpose. To try and make such a link is frankly pathetic and a real slap in the face to anyone who votes SNP but does not hate people based on their ethnicity. The fact that it's coming from a doctor is actually a little disturbing.

 

The divisions have always been there. Just because half of the population want an independent Scotland but are part of a Scotland in the U.K. does not mean they are any happier than if the same split existed in an independent Scotland and for you to just assume the majority of these people are 'plebs' who only feel this way because Nicola Surgeon has told them to is about as intentionally ignorant as your first part of the post about UKIP.

The Scottish Indy campaign was fought along the same lines as Brexit.

Cause division,

fuel upset,

fabricate financial figures

finger point

abrogate responsibility

blame distant parliament

I view ALL nationalism as being unhelpful and damaging

Its not a massive surprise that it was the same demographic that backed UKIP that backed the Indy.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Scotland has a big problem, and it has nothing to do with the Tories, with Brexit or with any of the other issues that the nationalist establishment is obsessed with. Scotland?s problem is that, largely as a result of Labour and SNP socialist policies, its economy is performing appallingly, and has been doing so for ages.

 

Year after year and quarter after quarter, Scotland has been growing more slowly than the overall UK economy and England in particular. The catastrophic decline of the North Sea oil and gas industry, combined with a collapse in energy prices compared to their historic peaks, has also crippled growth, of course.

 

But there is far, far more to Scotland?s economic woes than merely the downturn affecting the extractive industries: all parts of the economy are in a rut. It pains me deeply to say so, but the Scottish economy now more closely resembles a struggling eurozone periphery economy than it does that of England.

 

North Sea oil

Scotland's economic woes are not limited to the long-term decline of North Sea oil and gas CREDIT: OWSKI / TOTAL PETROCHEMICALS

ADVERTISING

 

As an excellent analysis by David Owen, of Jefferies, reminds us, social-democratic Scotland continues to be addicted to government spending.

 

Spending per person in Scotland was ?12,800 in 2015-16, compared with ?11,500 for the UK as a whole. The problem is that Scotland?s tax base is too small to pay for this, which means that it is racking up a massive budget deficit (funded by English taxpayers).

 

For the UK as a whole, the shortfall between revenues and expenditures was 4pc of GDP in 2015-16, far too high for this stage of the cycle; but for Scotland, even with a geographical share of oil (now some 78.5pc of output), it was a disastrous 9.5pc of GDP. An independent Scotland would have to slash expenditures massively not to go bankrupt immediately, and dump its socialist public sector model. This would be a good thing, of course, but is the opposite of what the SNP advocates.

 

An independent Scotland would have to slash expenditures massively not to go bankrupt immediately, and dump its socialist public sector model

Whereas just 44pc of UK exports go to the EU, Scotland is far more dependent on the rest of the UK. Excluding oil, as Owen explains in his paper, Scottish exports of goods and services to the rest of the UK were worth 31.8pc of Scottish onshore GDP in the third quarter of last year. By contrast, exports to all other countries were worth just 17.8pc of its GDP.

 

Any country can succeed if it decides to go it alone as long as it adopts the right policies and is willing to cut tax and spend to the right level, but the SNP?s narrative that it wants to stay in the single market but be outside of the post-EU UK market is ridiculous. Using its own logic, which is that one needs to be in a single economic regulatory zone to survive, it ought to want to stay in the UK, not the single market.

 

 

Gary Gillespie, the Scottish government?s chief economist, notes in his most recent State of the Economy report that in 2015 Scotland?s exports to the EU grew by 4.4pc to a still paltry ?12.3bn.

 

Exports to the rest of the UK grew at exactly the same rate to stand at a much larger ?49.8bn. Even more depressingly for Scotland?s prospects, its overall non-UK exports grew more slowly at just 3.6pc.  

 

The overall growth numbers are especially frightening and confirm that Scotland?s woes have actually little to do with the North Sea. UK GDP grew by 3.1pc in 2014, 2.2pc in 2015 and 1.8pc in 2016; onshore Scottish GDP (thus stripping out oil and gas) grew by 2.7pc in 2014, 2.1pc in 2015 and a maximum of 0.7pc last year.

 

The analysis of official figures by Jefferies investment bank shows that Scottish growth was 0.2pc in the second quarter of 2015, against 0.5pc for the UK; zero in the third, against 0.3pc for the UK; 0.3pc in the fourth, against 0.7pc; zero in the first quarter of 2016, against 0.2pc; 0.2pc in the second, compared with 0.6pc; 0.2pc in the third, against 0.6pc; and almost certainly another disappointing figure in the fourth, against a strong 0.7pc for the UK.

 

Breaking the figures down makes one want to truly despair: manufacturing output collapsed by some 5.5pc last year, and despite Edinburgh?s famously skilled financial services sector, Scotland?s professional services sector is also lagging behind the rest of Britain?s.

 

Scotland

The SNP wants to stay in the single market but be outside of the post-EU UK market CREDIT: ANDY BUCHANAN

The jobs performance in Scotland has been equally dire: its population is growing less quickly than the UK?s and its latest employment rate among 16 to  64-year-olds is 73.6pc, down from a peak of 74.8pc in 2014, and less than the 74.6pc for the UK as a whole. In the year to the fourth quarter of last year, Scottish employment dropped 1pc, against a 0.5pc rise for the UK as a whole.

 

Scotland?s biggest problem is its bloated state (reliant on transfers from the rest of the UK), its unreformed welfare, its elite?s cultural dislike of capitalism and free markets, and the hard-Left policies pursued by its government.

 

Instead of wasting time trying to force through yet another referendum which will ultimately be defeated, the Scottish establishment needs to perform an intellectual U-turn and embrace tried and tested policies to boost growth. Scotland needs more markets, less tax, less red tape and an injection of market forces in public services.

 

From A Heath in the Telegraph.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Seymour M Hersh

[Beast Boy]

The Scottish Indy campaign was fought along the same lines as Brexit.

Cause division,

fuel upset,

fabricate financial figures

finger point

abrogate responsibility

blame distant parliament

I view ALL nationalism as being unhelpful and damaging

Its not a massive surprise that it was the same demographic that backed UKIP that backed the Indy.

You'd need to show me proof of your demographic claim tbh. All Yes voters that I know personally are multicultural types, mainly involved in science.

 

Your nationalism claim is a tired prejudice which you probably know to be true anyway. There is a huge difference in nationalism as a vehicle for independence and the right to govern ones self and the nationalism of right wing parties who show prejudices towards others because of their ethnicity.

 

The nationalist movements in countries like Finland, India and the likes, where counties took back the right to self govern are in no way the same as movements like UKIP, the national socialists or the British National Party.

[deesidejambo]

50/50

It's going to be a rout!

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382623-stv-poll-half-of-scots-would-vote-for-independence/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Er No.  If you look at the sub questions you will see that support for No has a far stronger certainty base at 38% whilst support for yes is only at 28%.

 

But anyway bring it on.  Let get this sorted Nicola for all our benefits.

[deesidejambo]

Your first part of that post is so churlish and obtuse. Just so utterly ignorant on purpose. To try and make such a link is frankly pathetic and a real slap in the face to anyone who votes SNP but does not hate people based on their ethnicity. The fact that it's coming from a doctor is actually a little disturbing.

 

The divisions have always been there. Just because half of the population want an independent Scotland but are part of a Scotland in the U.K. does not mean they are any happier than if the same split existed in an independent Scotland. For you to just assume the majority of these people are 'plebs' who only feel this way because Nicola Surgeon has told them to, is about as intentionally ignorant as your first part of the post about UKIP.

Christ I go away for a quiet game of golf and it all kicks off.

[Boris]

That seems a fairly specious argument as the decision not to implement the tax cut was made at Holyrood

 

How much influence did Holyrood have on Westminster decision?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Perhaps if Nicola had her own family and children, she might actually care about the future generations of Scots who would suffer through this ill conceived and decisive obsession, but she doesn't and she doesn't care about anyone other than herself and her little band of happy clappers.

 

Luckily, there are more than sufficient numbers of Scots who do care and they will, as the last time, send the nationalists, Scotland's own version of UKIP, home in defeat.

[reaths17]

If YES wins, and Scotland becomes independent, then I don't see why there couldn't be a Unionist party agitating for a referendum on whether Scotland should join in Union with rUK.  That's democracy!

 

Whether rUK would want Scotland to join is another question...

 

If YES wins, and Scotland becomes independent, then I don't see why there couldn't be a Unionist party agitating for a referendum on whether Scotland should join in Union with rUK.  That's democracy!

 

Whether rUK would want Scotland to join is another question...

why would we have to wait for independence to challenge the ruling ?

 

the votes were hardly in and the separatists were calling for a revote because they lost and nothing changed. surely the way they have behaved would entitle the unionists to halt any transition, until they got their revote.

[deesidejambo]

How much influence did Holyrood have on Westminster decision?

Chicken-Egg discusion

 

The outcome doesn't change - Scots earning above ?40,000 pay more tax than rUK.   

[reaths17]

Perhaps if Nicola had her own family and children, she might actually care about the future generations of Scots who would suffer through this ill conceived and decisive obsession, but she doesn't and she doesn't care about anyone other than herself and her little band of happy clappers.

 

Luckily, there are more than sufficient numbers of Scots who do care and they will, as the last time, send the nationalists, Scotland's own version of UKIP, home in defeat.

WTF, the fish canny move in her house for all the refugees, surely she cares for her ship them all here immigrants

[deesidejambo]

why would we have to wait for independence to challenge the ruling ?

 

the votes were hardly in and the separatists were calling for a revote because they lost and nothing changed. surely the way they have behaved would entitle the unionists to halt any transition, until they got their revote.

Nicola has a huge problem though.   From the same poll 48% of voters want Indy Scotland to be in the EU.     Nicola will have to guarantee that outcome in order to secure their votes otherwise the voters will likely stick with UK. 

 

Cant wait to see how she can give this guarantee.

[Doogz]

How much influence did Holyrood have on Westminster decision?

 

No influence over the WM decision but they had the choice to implement it or not - they chose the latter so the final decision was theirs.

[Boris]

why would we have to wait for independence to challenge the ruling ?

 

the votes were hardly in and the separatists were calling for a revote because they lost and nothing changed. surely the way they have behaved would entitle the unionists to halt any transition, until they got their revote.

 

No, not at all.

 

Challenge the ruling?  The express will of the people?  Go for it!  See what happens.

 

"Aye, but *insert pejorative for Sturgeon here* said it was once in a lifetime!" - aye?  So what.

 

BT said  vote NO to remain in the EU.  That worked!

 

Had Cameron not put an EU referendum in the 2015 GE manifesto, then there wouldn't have been the SNP manifesto option of another indy ref if "material change" to Scotland's interests/status.  This isn't 2014 anymore and things are changed, but we aren't allowed to challenge these statements because 2014 ref was definitive?

 

Glacial progressive Reaths!

[Boris]

No influence over the WM decision but they had the choice to implement it or not - they chose the latter so the final decision was theirs.

 

So had they implemented it they are Tories, if they don't Scotland has most taxed high earners.

 

Cynic in me suggests it was done deliberately just to get this type of reaction, what with the inevitable about to happen soon.

[HaymarketJambo]

If there is a 2nd referendum and Yes wins can the No voters ask for a third referendum and we keep going until the whole idea falls into disrepute or will the SNP insist that if they win it is the sovereign will of ra people!

 

Getting worried Stuart? LOL  

Edited March 9, 2017 by HaymarketJambo

[deesidejambo]

Getting worried Stuart? LOL  

Best out of three?

[Doogz]

So had they implemented it they are Tories, if they don't Scotland has most taxed high earners.

 

Cynic in me suggests it was done deliberately just to get this type of reaction, what with the inevitable about to happen soon.

I wouldn?t necessarily disagree with your cynicism but at the same time the final decision was made a Holyrood.

 

I would have preferred the SNP to be bolder and push through a ?genuine? increase in taxes ? rather than just opt out of the WM decrease.

 

They have (limited) tax raising powers ? why not use them to show how things could be improved in Scotland & demonstrate why their powers need to be increased further. It seems to me this would be the best possible argument for independence but so far they don?t seem prepared to do this.

 

[HaymarketJambo]

Best out of three?

 

LOL. 

 

Best out of four?

[Space Mackerel]

Er No. If you look at the sub questions you will see that support for No has a far stronger certainty base at 38% whilst support for yes is only at 28%.

 

But anyway bring it on. Let get this sorted Nicola for all our benefits.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[doctor jambo]

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

When you rely on youtube for anything you know the games up.

I and others are still awaiting a coherent fiscal proposal for independent Scotland.

If there is one, I will vote indy

I don't think asking how the new Government will pay for things is asking too much.........is it?

[Pans Jambo]

When you rely on youtube for anything you know the games up.

I and others are still awaiting a coherent fiscal proposal for independent Scotland.

If there is one, I will vote indy

I don't think asking how the new Government will pay for things is asking too much.........is it?

Probably trade and borrowing as well as asking corporations and wealthy folk to pay their share of tax. Same as most developed countries in the world I would imagine.

[Space Mackerel]

When you rely on youtube for anything you know the games up.

I and others are still awaiting a coherent fiscal proposal for independent Scotland.

If there is one, I will vote indy

I don't think asking how the new Government will pay for things is asking too much.........is it?

 

Did all you Yoons have a sense of humour bypass at birth? 

[reaths17]

Did all you Yoons have a sense of humour bypass at birth? 

you think your none answering of relevant questions is funny ?

 

get over to your leader and copy'n'paste, surely he knows how it all pans out

[deesidejambo]

I wouldn?t necessarily disagree with your cynicism but at the same time the final decision was made a Holyrood.

 

I would have preferred the SNP to be bolder and push through a ?genuine? increase in taxes ? rather than just opt out of the WM decrease.

 

They have (limited) tax raising powers ? why not use them to show how things could be improved in Scotland & demonstrate why their powers need to be increased further. It seems to me this would be the best possible argument for independence but so far they don?t seem prepared to do this.

This.  They had their chance to make a difference and they bottled it.     Tartan Tories.

[reaths17]

Probably trade and borrowing as well as asking corporations and wealthy folk to pay their share of tax. Same as most developed countries in the world I would imagine.

is that a mibees aye mibees no type answer.

 

I look forward to the Scottish tories taxing the big corporations and the rich, they'll be over that border cuddling their English buddies quicker than you can say tartan tammy

[jambo lodge]

I note from the STV poll that support for independence comes more from men than women and more from " deprived areas". Its so easy to get the support of those who have little when you keep coming out with grievance after grievance ( Tories/Westminster blah, blah, blah.). My view is that the middle classes,the silent majority, will get involved in any new referendum in a far greater way than the first one. Two reasons.......1. Nicola said the first referendum would be a once in a generation one and she has lied 2. Secondly the middle/working classes will understand the dire economic consequences of independence within Europe and will organise themselves much better. 

The last referendum brought division to this wonderful country I think real anger and division will result from a second one to held only 4 years later.      

[Space Mackerel]

I note from the STV poll that support for independence comes more from men than women and more from " deprived areas". Its so easy to get the support of those who have little when you keep coming out with grievance after grievance ( Tories/Westminster blah, blah, blah.). My view is that the middle classes,the silent majority, will get involved in any new referendum in a far greater way than the first one. Two reasons.......1. Nicola said the first referendum would be a once in a generation one and she has lied 2. Secondly the middle/working classes will understand the dire economic consequences of independence within Europe and will organise themselves much better. 

The last referendum brought division to this wonderful country I think real anger and division will result from a second one to held only 4 years later.      

 

Brexit caused this, pure and simple. The Yoonatics have only themselves to blame. 

 

They were well warned many a time before the EU referendum. 

[jambo lodge]

Brexit caused this, pure and simple. The Yoonatics have only themselves to blame. 

 

They were well warned many a time before the EU referendum. 

 

Perhaps for you and a few others who want independence at any price. The majority last time and again this time will listen and weigh up the arguments. Would be a brave person to argue economically for independence within Europe for Scotland. I note Juncker now wants to

set up an EU army........that will go down well. 

[Beast Boy]

Christ I go away for a quiet game of golf and it all kicks off.

Ach, I just think it's a bit rich that Spacey gets kicked about like a football for his posts and folk like the Doc make worse accusations and normally don't get pulled up for it.

[deesidejambo]

Below is the data which shows why Ecks 24 billion barrels was garbage.

 

Firstly, it is in Oil Companies interests to inflate forecasts for shareholder benefit.

It is in SNPs interest to inflate forecasts for Indy benefit.

 

But there is a way to independently calculate within reason the future production.    This is what independent analysts such as WoodMac do, but it is simple for KB'ers to analyse the raw data and make their own judgements within a good degree of accuracy.

 

The method is to use the actual production, as shown here, and extrapolate that into the future.

 

The recent actual UK oil production is around 900,000 to 1 million barrels per day.    Most, but not all, is from Scotland.

 

If we take an optimistic value of 1 million then, that equates to 365 million barrels per year.    Should be no dispute there.

 

If we take another optimistic assumption that the production never declines (which it does of course) and we forecast the platforms and facilities will last another 30 years, then the remaining reserves are 11 billion barrels, not 24 billion.

 

But in the real world the production declines, it does, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a daftie, so the 11 billion is a significant overestimate, but still well short of the 24 billion promised by Eck.

 

More realistic estimates are an annual decline rate of 5% per annum, which itself could be optimistic, and average remaining facilities lifetimes of no more than 20 years (many facilities are now well past design life).  Putting that in gives remaining reserves just below 5 billion.

 

So the real number that can be backed up by actual data is around 5 billion barrels but no doubt the dafties will say production never declines and the facilities will last forever.

 

Its accepted that there are some new fields such as Clair Ridge,  Mariner, and some others still to come on stream but their reserves estimates in total are no more than a billion barrels.

 

So where is the 24 billion coming from Eck?          The Atlantic Margin?       Highly doubtful and nowhere near mature enough to count into forward revenue forecasts.    It would be grossly misleading to do so, Eck   

 

Cue Spacey saying the Atlantic margin is going to produce massive volumes despite there being limited prospectively there and no interest at all from Oil Companies to explore there, for good reason.

 

But I do applaud the SNP for removing oil from future white papers - they know th above is true and if they come out with more 24 billion barrel nonsense they will get exposed.

[deesidejambo]

Ach, I just think it's a bit rich that Spacey gets kicked about like a football for his posts and folk like the Doc make worse accusations and normally don't get pulled up for it.

 

Ach, I just think it's a bit rich that Spacey gets kicked about like a football for his posts and folk like the Doc make worse accusations and normally don't get pulled up for it.

Maybe if Spacey laid off the smileys and engaged in debate without cut and pasting things may help.   I see he uses the word Yoonatic now.

[reaths17]

Ach, I just think it's a bit rich that Spacey gets kicked about like a football for his posts and folk like the Doc make worse accusations and normally don't get pulled up for it.

spaced oot comes away with a loada lies copied from his master, when asked for the facts to back his comments he avoids answering.

 

everybody else tries to back up their point, and everybody is free to poke holes in this, boris tries.

 

and your still whafting that big spoon aboot, you could have ago at clarifying his points.

 

he used to have aussie,backing his comments, which just made them look worse, so he's been free from that burden for a few days now.

[Beast Boy]

Maybe if Spacey laid off the smileys and engaged in debate without cut and pasting things may help. I see he uses the word Yoonatic now.

He gets all the separatist, nat, nippy, the fish and such shit slung at him though, so I can understand why. Doctor Jambo is swanning around calling large swathes of the Scottish public plebs ffs!

[Beast Boy]

spaced oot comes away with a loada lies copied from his master, when asked for the facts to back his comments he avoids answering.

 

everybody else tries to back up their point, and everybody is free to poke holes in this, boris tries.

 

and your still whafting that big spoon aboot, you could have ago at clarifying his points.

 

he used to have aussie,backing his comments, which just made them look worse, so he's been free from that burden for a few days now.

He does a decent job of backing his opinions in the face of so many folk calling him names tbh.

[deesidejambo]

He gets all the separatist, nat, nippy, the fish and such shit slung at him though, so I can understand why. Doctor Jambo is swanning around calling large swathes of the Scottish public plebs ffs!

Its tricky and it always works both ways.

 

I get called a "Toff" (which is ironic as I grew up in a Cooncil Hoose in Methil) and only ever voted Tory once.

 

I'd agree pleb is not an appropriate word but at the same time there is a difference in voting intend between social groups.   Even that gets denied on here, but it is generally accepted elsewhere.  Its better to use the generally accepted term Socio DE groups but no doubt that will offend also.

[Boris]

I note from the STV poll that support for independence comes more from men than women and more from " deprived areas". Its so easy to get the support of those who have little when you keep coming out with grievance after grievance ( Tories/Westminster blah, blah, blah.). My view is that the middle classes,the silent majority, will get involved in any new referendum in a far greater way than the first one. Two reasons.......1. Nicola said the first referendum would be a once in a generation one and she has lied 2. Secondly the middle/working classes will understand the dire economic consequences of independence within Europe and will organise themselves much better. 

The last referendum brought division to this wonderful country I think real anger and division will result from a second one to held only 4 years later.      

 

If that is the primary argument then it's a shit one, imo.  

 

Secondly, the working class will lfeel more secure in a May led Brexit Britain?  Really?

[deesidejambo]

spaced oot comes away with a loada lies copied from his master, when asked for the facts to back his comments he avoids answering.

 

everybody else tries to back up their point, and everybody is free to poke holes in this, boris tries.

 

and your still whafting that big spoon aboot, you could have ago at clarifying his points.

 

he used to have aussie,backing his comments, which just made them look worse, so he's been free from that burden for a few days now.

What happened to Aussie?    He is planning to execute all "Yoons" last I heard.

[reaths17]

He does a decent job of backing his opinions in the face of so many folk calling him names tbh.

in which way ? a copy 'n' paste from wings, is nothing but where he got his info from, it doesn't back up his rants.

 

if he came out with his own points and debated them, maybe he would be taken more seriously, but he copies n paste the runs away, changing the subject.

 

if you go to the independence thread you'll find that spaced oot and his pals were the mud slingers, way before this started.

Edited March 9, 2017 by reaths17

[reaths17]

What happened to Aussie?    He is planning to execute all "Yoons" last I heard.

he's been very quiet since they binned his caravan, maybe canny log into free wifi like at holyrood to post.

[deesidejambo]

If that is the primary argument then it's a shit one, imo.  

 

Secondly, the working class will lfeel more secure in a May led Brexit Britain?  Really?

I wouldn't be so sure.  

 

Now that Brexit is done there is no place in UK politics for UKIp so they are rebranding themselves as the party of the working man.  I think Tories may respond eventually but the sad thing is Corbyn is destroying Labour in the meantime so the working people may end up at worst unrepresented but certainly with their vote split.   Who wins in this case?  The Tories!