Even More SNP Nonsense

[Space Mackerel]

Murray Foote, ex editor of The Daily Record and co wrote the famous Vow in 2014 along with Broon, Cameron, Milliband and Clegg. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Space Mackerel

[Doogz]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Murray Foote, ex editor of The Daily Record and co wrote the famous Vow in 2014. 

 

 

 

Thought you were away watching the golf- seeing as you're here though have you found those quotes yet ?

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, Doogz said:

Thought you were away watching the golf- seeing as you're here though have you found those quotes yet ?

 

Thought you were wanting some thought provoking answers to your own Indy dilemma pal, I’ve just posted one above. 

[Doogz]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Thought you were wanting some thought provoking answers to your own Indy dilemma pal, I’ve just posted one above. 

That wouldn't be you trying to deflect again would it?  If Indy is such a forgone conclusion that you'll "bet your house on it" you surely wouldn't have to resort to lying on this thread or are you now able to back up your earlier claims? 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Doogz said:

That wouldn't be you trying to deflect again would it?  If Indy is such a forgone conclusion that you'll "bet your house on it" you surely wouldn't have to resort to lying on this thread or are you now able to back up your earlier claims? 

 

Only going by what you said initially on this thread, you wanted info to make up your mind. I’ve just posted some. 

[Doogz]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Only going by what you said initially on this thread, you wanted info to make up your mind. I’ve just posted some. 

 

Want to provide a quote from me from this thread about my Indy dilemma then? Or is this just more lies?

 

I've been quite consistent that I'm open to the idea if Indy - but I want compelling arguments and open honest debate. You provide lies, gibberish and either deflect or run away when challenged to back up your beliefs.

[AuldReekie444]

3 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

When you see someone like Murray Foote, editor of The Daily Record, the architect of The Vow in 2014, clearly a big No swap sides to Yes the games up. There will be thousands and thousands like him. Remember, only 1 in 10 need to change over. There will be hardly any silent majority next time. 

 

"there will be hardly any silent majority next time"

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, Doogz said:

 

Want to provide a quote from me from this thread about my Indy dilemma then? Or is this just more lies?

 

I've been quite consistent that I'm open to the idea if Indy - but I want compelling arguments and open honest debate. You provide lies, gibberish and either deflect or run away when challenged to back up your beliefs.

 

Why don’t you follow some pro Indy people on Twitter then, I’m sure they’re better at getting the point across than some daft Hearts fitba fans?

come back to us with your findings.

weegingerdug is pretty good. 

[AuldReekie444]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Why don’t you follow some pro Indy people on Twitter then, I’m sure they’re better at getting the point across than some daft Hearts fitba fans?

come back to us with your findings.

weegingerdug is pretty good. 

crikey

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, AuldReekie444 said:

crikey

 

Pro tip: I wasn’t replying to you

[151]

4 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Too wee, too poor, too stupid. 

 

Thank god for that. A picture. A picture with "Yes" on it to show its unbiased. 

 

Why have referendums and negotiations and politicians when you can find pictures like that to show everything will be fine.

[AuldReekie444]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Pro tip: I wasn’t replying to you

 

even more snp nonsense 

[Doogz]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Why don’t you follow some pro Indy people on Twitter then, I’m sure they’re better at getting the point across than some daft Hearts fitba fans?

come back to us with your findings.

weegingerdug is pretty good. 

So you can't provide any quotes to back up any of your lies then? Hardly a surprise as you couldn't even stick to your earlier plan of leaving to watch the golf ?

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

Thank god for that. A picture. A picture with "Yes" on it to show its unbiased. 

 

Why have referendums and negotiations and politicians when you can find pictures like that to show everything will be fine.

 

Theres text too but I forgot Pars’s can’t read.

 

luv RAF.

[Geoff the Mince]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Theres text too but I forgot Pars’s can’t read.

 

luv RAF.

Yeah John .

[Thunderstruck]

24 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

 

"there will be hardly any silent majority next time"

 

 

 

The poor soul is a wee bit...

[AuldReekie444]

Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

The poor soul is a wee bit...

Me? Im a poor soul. 

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

Me? Im a poor soul. 

 

No, the chap who doesn’t realise that hardly any silent majority is nonetheless a majority. 

[AuldReekie444]

Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

No, the chap who doesn’t realise that hardly any silent majority is nonetheless a majority. 

its so confusing. will they be silent

[151]

14 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Theres text too but I forgot Pars’s can’t read.

 

luv RAF.

 

I'm sure there are Dunfermline fans who can read. Unfair comment imo.

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, AuldReekie444 said:

its so confusing. will they be silent

 

But if nobody is there to hear them...

[AuldReekie444]

2 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

I'm sure there are Dunfermline fans who can read. Unfair comment imo.

i think Space Mackerel was trying to say "paras" , and establish himself as an ex-service person.  

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

I'm sure there are Dunfermline fans who can read. Unfair comment imo.

 

 My best gag ruined by predictive text.

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, AuldReekie444 said:

i think Space Mackerel was trying to say "paras" , and establish himself as an ex-service person.  

 

Only if the Womens’ Auxilliary Balloon Corps counts as a part of the Services. 

[151]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

 My best gag ruined by predictive text.

 

 

Someone thought I genuinely didn't know what you meant so, it could be worse!

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

 

Someone thought I genuinely didn't know what you meant so, it could be worse!

 

These folk usually end up in Signals or Transport Corp

[AuldReekie444]

broken people, saying broken things, breaks, snapping. Broke. 

[Space Mackerel]

Scrub that, they’re cooks ^^^^  

[AuldReekie444]

in with the lads eh space mackerel

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

broken people, saying broken things, breaks, snapping. Broke. 

That should be tattooed on Sturgeon somewhere, perfectly apt after the disastrous result of the last referendum 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

in with the lads eh space mackerel

 

Just a wee bit inter HM Forces banter. You’d have to be in it to appreciate it. 

Saying that, there was a chef at Lossie that could cook an amazing amount of poached eggs, 10-20, perfectly to order when I can even barely cook one. I shouldn’t really take the piss. 

[AuldReekie444]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Just a wee bit inter HM Forces banter. You’d have to be in it to appreciate it. 

Saying that, there was a chef at Lossie that could cook an amazing amount of poached eggs, 10-20, perfectly to order when I can even barely cook one. I shouldn’t really take the piss. 

 

same old same old Space Mackerel

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

 

same old same old Space Mackerel

 

Telling ya man, best poached eggs ever. The scrambled and fried ones in the hot tray were hardly ever touched in the mess when he was on breakfasts. 

[AuldReekie444]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Telling ya man, best poached eggs ever. The scrambled and fried ones in the hot tray were hardly ever touched in the mess when he was on breakfasts. 

Is there an armed services thread on here? you could start one

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

Is there an armed services thread on here? you could start one

 

Here you go back on track. Promise not to make you feel left out in future. 

 

 

[Captain Sausage]

11 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13072

 

Worth a read, whether yes or no

 

Good link. As usual it is totally overlooked in favor of rhetoric and name calling, from all sides but one poster in particular. 

 

Where I am at with it all (I’ve moved to London so my views are now null and void anyway):

 

An independent Scotland would function fine in the aftermath of a vote for Indy. There would be no collapse of the system or any of that type of scare mongering. People would get by okay on the whole. 

 

However, it would be financially worse off than the rest of the UK. I think the recent report puts an end to discussion on that point. The left-of-centre SNP plays to the slightly left of centre Scottish population. In an independent Scotland, there would be nowhere to hide behind ‘Westminster austerity’ - and make no mistake, austerity would be worse here for a number of years. 

 

The vote comes down to each individual. If you believe a heavier austerity being implemented on a generation is worth it to give Scotland full control over its future - vote yes. 

 

If you believe that we are better off remaining part of the UK, and the relative financial security that provides, vote no. 

 

The SNP are masters of grievance politics - which is something that gets a lot of people’s back up. This further deepens the divide between yes/no and helps nobody. They need to stop playing the victim card and start providing a clear, practical and realistic vision for independent Scotland. Not some pie in the sky utopia with infinite money who can improve public services from where they are today - that’s an utter fallacy. 

[AuldReekie444]

10 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Here you go back on track. Promise not to make you feel left out in future. 

 

 

 

Last hustings, I saw Tommy Sheppard lose his temper at some old folk. He knew it didn't matter, and it didn't. 

 

I see SNP and Scot Nationalists treat Scots with contempt often, and it is massively supported by their fellow Nationalists. 

 

Makes no sense to me at all. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by AuldReekie444
clarification

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, houstonjambo said:

 

Good link. As usual it is totally overlooked in favor of rhetoric and name calling, from all sides but one poster in particular. 

 

Where I am at with it all (I’ve moved to London so my views are now null and void anyway):

 

An independent Scotland would function fine in the aftermath of a vote for Indy. There would be no collapse of the system or any of that type of scare mongering. People would get by okay on the whole. 

 

However, it would be financially worse off than the rest of the UK. I think the recent report puts an end to discussion on that point. The left-of-centre SNP plays to the slightly left of centre Scottish population. In an independent Scotland, there would be nowhere to hide behind ‘Westminster austerity’ - and make no mistake, austerity would be worse here for a number of years. 

 

The vote comes down to each individual. If you believe a heavier austerity being implemented on a generation is worth it to give Scotland full control over its future - vote yes. 

 

If you believe that we are better off remaining part of the UK, and the relative financial security that provides, vote no. 

 

The SNP are masters of grievance politics - which is something that gets a lot of people’s back up. This further deepens the divide between yes/no and helps nobody. They need to stop playing the victim card and start providing a clear, practical and realistic vision for independent Scotland. Not some pie in the sky utopia with infinite money who can improve public services from where they are today - that’s an utter fallacy. 

 

12 minutes ago, houstonjambo said:

 

Good link. As usual it is totally overlooked in favor of rhetoric and name calling, from all sides but one poster in particular. 

 

Where I am at with it all (I’ve moved to London so my views are now null and void anyway):

 

An independent Scotland would function fine in the aftermath of a vote for Indy. There would be no collapse of the system or any of that type of scare mongering. People would get by okay on the whole. 

 

However, it would be financially worse off than the rest of the UK. I think the recent report puts an end to discussion on that point. The left-of-centre SNP plays to the slightly left of centre Scottish population. In an independent Scotland, there would be nowhere to hide behind ‘Westminster austerity’ - and make no mistake, austerity would be worse here for a number of years. 

 

The vote comes down to each individual. If you believe a heavier austerity being implemented on a generation is worth it to give Scotland full control over its future - vote yes. 

 

If you believe that we are better off remaining part of the UK, and the relative financial security that provides, vote no. 

 

The SNP are masters of grievance politics - which is something that gets a lot of people’s back up. This further deepens the divide between yes/no and helps nobody. They need to stop playing the victim card and start providing a clear, practical and realistic vision for independent Scotland. Not some pie in the sky utopia with infinite money who can improve public services from where they are today - that’s an utter fallacy. 

 

Did the IFS predict a Brexit pre 2016? 

 

I rest my case. 

[Captain Sausage]

11 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

Did the IFS predict a Brexit pre 2016? 

 

I rest my case. 

 

Do you believe Scotland will be instantaneously better off financially in the event of independence from rUK?

 

As in, do you disagree with every economic forecast available?

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, houstonjambo said:

 

Do you believe Scotland will be instantaneously better off financially in the event of independence from rUK?

 

As in, do you disagree with every economic forecast available?

 

Instantly better off  SNP said we were all getting magic genie lamps too. 

 

How to completely miss the whole point of Scottish independence in one post. 

 

[AuldReekie444]

41 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Instantly better off  SNP said we were all getting magic genie lamps too. 

 

How to completely miss the whole point of Scottish independence in one post. 

 

even more snp nonsense

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

even more snp nonsense

 

You don’t even think being Scottish has enhanced your over all being on this planet, I think you should be the last to quote.

Yet you, as I, support a Scottish team, with a Scottish captain, managed by a Scot, a former Scotland manager, playing in a Scottish league, in Scotland. 

 

 

 

[AuldReekie444]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You don’t even think being Scottish has enhanced your over all being on this planet, I think you should be the last to quote.

Yet you, as I, support a Scottish team, with a Scottish captain, managed by a Scot, a former Scotland manager, playing in a Scottish league, in Scotland. 

 

 

 

all the distraction, all the petty comebacks

 

you never answer a question, even though you ought to, even though the questions are genuine attempts to engage with this complicated issue.

 

then you ask questions, as if you are serious, but they are not real questions. just sad farts from deformed concrete.

 

You Space Mackerel are just even more snp nonsense

[Captain Sausage]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Instantly better off  SNP said we were all getting magic genie lamps too. 

 

How to completely miss the whole point of Scottish independence in one post. 

 

 

So Scotland will be financially worse off instantly post independence from rUK. 

 

That’s what you are saying?

[JohnB]

Well worth a read, especially as he was the architect of "The Vow"

 

 

COMMENT

June 14 2018, 12:01am, The Times

Independence is the means to a greater end

Murray Foote

In the face of Brexit we must trust ourselves to meet success and failure on our own merit

 

Three days after the death of Donald Dewar in October 2000 I was cutting through Glasgow’s George Square among the dozen statues of famous names immortalised in bronze. The most recently deceased and the only female — mounted on a horse and inexplicably wearing a crown rather than the traditional traffic cone — was Queen Victoria. Since she shuffled off in 1901 not a single notable has had the honour bestowed in their memory of induction into the hall of famous George Square stiffs.

It struck me that Dewar, a son of Glasgow and Scotland’s inaugural first minister, merited a place among the revered deceased. At that point I was deputy editor of the Daily Record so I made the suggestion to my editor, who agreed it was a worthy campaign. Two years later Tony Blair unveiled a bronze Father of the Nation — slightly dishevelled, appropriately — on Buchanan Street.

I recount the details by way of demonstrating my admiration for Dewar and his greatest political achievement in reconvening the Scottish parliament after a recess lasting three centuries. His speech at the parliament’s opening a year before his death was emotional: “There shall be a Scottish parliament. Through long years, those words were first a hope, then a belief, then a promise. Now they are a reality. This is a moment anchored in our history.”

Devolution brought the biggest political change of my lifetime. Sure, establishing the apparatus of devolved government was not without its difficulties and, in the early days, critics. But the philosophy that Holyrood exists merely to mitigate the excesses of Westminster is not a belief system to which I subscribe. We owe it to ourselves and to future generations to be far more progressive, dynamic, ambitious.

It is largely why in 2014, by then editor, I commissioned The Vow, the promise made on the front page of the Record by the UK’s main party leaders two days before the independence referendum of extensive new powers to Scotland. I believed a more powerful Scottish parliament was what the majority of readers wanted. And now we learn it sent Ruth Davidson apoplectic. LOL.

As we continue to labour under a vindictive Westminster administration, the nascent Scottish benefits agency will be another waypoint on the journey to more compassionate devolved government. Now we are on the brink of Brexit. But where devolution arrived bearing promise and hope, Brexit is draped in a shroud of despair. We have not yet completed our shameful retreat from the EU and I cling to the diminishing hope we never do.

I cannot tolerate a Tory government prepared to treat devolution with the blatant contempt displayed in Tuesday’s cynical one-man debate on the EU Withdrawal Bill. It was a democratic abomination. I can no longer stand by while a cabal of the privileged deprive our children the right to live in 27 European countries because they don’t like Johnnie Foreigner encroaching their elite club.

I can’t remain silent as May, Davis, Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Gove undermine the stability of a continent that has largely been at peace for 70 years. For them this is a game of ambition, for the majority of us it is unconscionable folly. I can’t wait for enough of England to wean itself off voting for the party of privilege that will never govern for anyone other than their own class.

I can’t watch a Labour Party pursue its own destructive Brexit agenda full in the knowledge that the people it professes to represent will shoulder the greatest burden. I can’t wait for that same party to recognise that Jeremy Corbyn seemed like a good idea at the time but now they must find a leader who can reunite a splintered movement capable of deposing the Tories. Nor can I await the arrival of a unicorn, that mythical federal Britain.

So independence it must be.

As Dewar said in his speech: “A Scottish parliament. Not an end, a means to greater end.” Independence is now the only option that provides any prospect of that greater end. What matters is timing and circumstance. Over the past few years heavy negative forces — like Brexit, that parade of Tory chancers and a dysfunctional opposition at Westminster — have tugged the independence stars ever nearer alignment. Last month’s growth commission report gave them another nudge.

I fully recognise an independent Scotland would face financial challenges and Andrew Wilson’s report is an attempt to address many of these realities with intrinsic honesty. I’ve considered the constitutional arguments against and, yes, the difficult decisions our independent nation would face and the sacrifices we may need to make do trouble me. But what troubles me more is the prospect of bequeathing to my daughters an isolated Britain governed indefinitely by the progeny of Rees-Mogg and their ilk.

For me, independence is about autonomy, allowing Scotland to meet success and failure on its own merit and not point an embittered finger of blame at anyone else. I have reconciled that independence would herald good and bad. I trust in us to solve the problems that will come our way. If so many other countries can, it is inconceivable that Scotland can’t. The Yes-Yes campaign which brought our parliament back from the dead 20 years ago asked Scotland to take a leap of faith and to trust in ourselves. When we are next asked the independence question, I’ll strap on my work boots and take that leap.

 

 

[Stuart Lyon]

Jam tomorrow! Well not quite tomorrow 20 plus years of austerity and Scotland will emerge as an economic powerhouse where everybody is blissfully happy or so the SNP would have you believe. The SNP's lates blueprint for Scotland's future is just as bad as the original 600 page long one held up to so much ridicule.

[Doogz]

8 hours ago, houstonjambo said:

 

Good link. As usual it is totally overlooked in favor of rhetoric and name calling, from all sides but one poster in particular. 

 

Where I am at with it all (I’ve moved to London so my views are now null and void anyway):

 

An independent Scotland would function fine in the aftermath of a vote for Indy. There would be no collapse of the system or any of that type of scare mongering. People would get by okay on the whole. 

 

However, it would be financially worse off than the rest of the UK. I think the recent report puts an end to discussion on that point. The left-of-centre SNP plays to the slightly left of centre Scottish population. In an independent Scotland, there would be nowhere to hide behind ‘Westminster austerity’ - and make no mistake, austerity would be worse here for a number of years. 

 

The vote comes down to each individual. If you believe a heavier austerity being implemented on a generation is worth it to give Scotland full control over its future - vote yes. 

 

If you believe that we are better off remaining part of the UK, and the relative financial security that provides, vote no. 

 

The SNP are masters of grievance politics - which is something that gets a lot of people’s back up. This further deepens the divide between yes/no and helps nobody. They need to stop playing the victim card and start providing a clear, practical and realistic vision for independent Scotland. Not some pie in the sky utopia with infinite money who can improve public services from where they are today - that’s an utter fallacy. 

 

Excellent post - not sure how long the heavier austerity would last in an Independent Scotland- a generation, longer, shorter? That's why I say we need an open and honest debate - using facts and figures, applying reasonable risk variances to give the voters an estimate of the scope and timescales of the austerity.

 

Good luck getting a coherent answer out of Spacey!

 

[Hasselhoff]

Couple of good links

http://www.stuartmaclennan.co.uk/2018/06/brexit-and-devolution-a-quick-primer/

 

Further proof that the seemingly honest, realistic Growth Commission is still trying to pull the wool over people's eyes

http://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2018/06/growth-commission-simple-mistake.html

 

As for Spacey's suggestion that unionists follow some Yes supporters and listen to what they have to say, I do this regularly. I listen to podcasts by Indy people, read what the national has to say etc. and it just makes me more "no"

 

Recently for example I was listening to some old dodder from Pensioners For Indy. He said people were most worried about their pension in an Indy Scotland and so he had a print out of a letter from the government (the one which has been confirmed by the government via an FOI to be not accurate) and he shows that to old folk to convince them. He is also making little leaflets spreading the same misinformation. It is this kind of thing that bugs me. If it is proven something is wrong, it shouldn't be used any further. He also dismissed GERS and said he is going to try and find another source of information. I find it laughable really, but only because there is thankfully a majority who can smell bullshit a mile off. Social media is dumbing down the population to the point that people just repeat things without understanding. 

 

I want to hear both sides of the argument because only by doing that can I make a balanced decision based on logic and evidence. 

[Doogz]

11 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Alll of you Unionists on here.

any quotes to back up your lies yet ?

[Pans Jambo]

You know when you listen to the chancellor’s speech on budget day. He slavers pish about how he sees the economy will perform over the next 4 or 5 years. How much the defecit will be and how much borrowing will be needed and what he will be spending and what he thinks inflation etc will look like and what he will do to keep it in check blah blah blah. 

 

EXPERTS! Thats right, EXPERTS! Financial experts help him come to his conclusions that he then sets out his budget and delivers it at the ballot box on budget day. 

 

My question is this: In all the time that this has been going on...has ANY chancellor EVER got ANY of his predictions correct?

 

Is it not true that they say borrowing will be ‘X’ and you then find out it usually ends up being worse. He says spending will be ‘Y’ and it usually ends up being wrong. 

 

This has went on for as long as I can remember DESPITE the raft of departments and ‘experts’ behind the chancellor. 

 

To say an ndependent Scotland would have 10 years of Austerity thats worse than it is now is just good old scaremongering. 

 

I agree if Scotland performs EXACTLY as it is now then yes, it probably would need to tighten its belt somewhat however; Scotland being able to set its own agenda and attract inward investment and be in control of its own affairs would change things somewhat from the status quo. 

 

Experts - People who con you into thinking they have superior knowledge and experience in a particular field when in proven reality, they ken heehaw!!!

Edited June 16, 2018 by Pans Jambo