New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[SUTOL]

34 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The pie stall and toilet area is a disaster though with folk all getting in each other's way due to the layout and lack of queuing demarcation. It's also one of the most claustrophobic spaces I've been in.

 

I walked straight the till of the 'pie stall' on Sat no queue and clearly signed whether cash only or card and cash. Served politely and quickly as always. This was after 2.30. 

 

I used the toilet at half-time and was in a short queue for less than a minute, and nobody seemed to be in anyone else's way. 

 

As for the claustrophobic statement, I can only assume you have an underlying medical problem with some form of extreme claustrophobia. I sympathise with you or that. 

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

I walked straight the till of the 'pie stall' on Sat no queue and clearly signed whether cash only or card and cash. Served politely and quickly as always. This was after 2.30. 

 

I used the toilet at half-time and was in a short queue for less than a minute, and nobody seemed to be in anyone else's way. 

 

As for the claustrophobic statement, I can only assume you have an underlying medical problem with some form of extreme claustrophobia. I sympathise with you or that. 

 

 

This! See if a was Ann budge I'd be thinking to myself why did a even bother because so many greeting faced ungrateful within our support 

[Cambo_Jambo]

FWIW I was at both the Etihad (North Stand, upper tier) and in the new stand at Tynecastle this week and didn't notice an appreciable difference in quality of build or facilities. Even the seats seemed much of a muchness. 

 

I'm not sure why people have such an issue with things like choice of colour scheme for paint. 

 

Obviously, it running over budget by a significant amount is concerning though obviously not a total surprise given the nature of large building works. Particularly when you consider that part of this increased cost is to upgrade the facilities to being gold standard. Presumably, this is with an eye on becoming a genuine option for conference space given that 1. Edinburgh is chronically short of it and 2. Most firms will only use stuff that's properly good.

 

One thing I would say is that whomever did the initial appraisal of costs is clearly not that good at what they do.

 

One other thing I would say that anybody trying to piece together a story of disaster out of tit bits in the press and 'ITK' leaks is clearly at it.

[jambali]

Thomaso,

Firstly, thank you for all your hard work on this and other threads! I admire your patience. I'm among those who are waiting to see the finished product before judging. However, we cannot ignore that mistakes were made, which have cost us all. I had a better match experience in the old stand (due to seat location) than the new and could exit far more quickly. There are bits which are better already (speed of catering & toilets) and I shall wait to see how things resolve...

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

The pitch. The increase in Toilets and catering kiosks from the original plan. And then subsequent changes to the toilets over last pre season.

 

The works to police control room.

 

Not sure what else.

Tv studio, fans bar, better dressing/physio rooms, developing Wheatfield undercroft, new energy centre in Roseburn undercroft etc

 

Nevef fails to amaze me so many  folk on here can only read when it’s it’s on Jkb! Too lazy to go and read e article themselve#. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by soonbe110

[Thomaso]

24 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

This! See if a was Ann budge I'd be thinking to myself why did a even bother because so many greeting faced ungrateful within our support 

 

Thankfully they are in the tiny minority

[Thomaso]

15 minutes ago, jambali said:

Thomaso,

Firstly, thank you for all your hard work on this and other threads! I admire your patience. I'm among those who are waiting to see the finished product before judging. However, we cannot ignore that mistakes were made, which have cost us all. I had a better match experience in the old stand (due to seat location) than the new and could exit far more quickly. There are bits which are better already (speed of catering & toilets) and I shall wait to see how things resolve...

 

Mistakes have been - as well documented and debated on this thread.  I have been in the construction industry for over 35 years and TBH most major projects have cost over runs due to design errors and a flawed cost plans.

You must be one of the few who thinks the view of the match was better from the old stand.

[BobbyJenkins]

Mistakes mistakes, mad budge oot!  ffs man.

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Mistakes have been - as well documented and debated on this thread.  I have been in the construction industry for over 35 years and TBH most major projects have cost over runs due to design errors and a flawed cost plans.

You must be one of the few who thinks the view of the match was better from the old stand.

 

To be fair he's not mentioning the view per se but the experience. I can kind of agree with him to a degree. Our old seats were front row rear section in T. Never had anyone walking in front of us, more leg room and the "shelf" to lean on. Yes the pillars got in the way. Got out quickly and easily at the end of the game. 

 

Roll on to last season when we kept (theoretically) our place in the new stand. Row 11, sit row behind the walk way. Constant interruptions before, during and at the end of the game (mostly due to corporates tbf). We complained to the club about it and nothing, zero, nada was done. there was a group of us 15 strong who had sat in the same seats for 25+ years. Slowly but surely people moved to get a better view of the game. Now there is only 3 remaining in that area (my wife and I moved to more expensive seats this season). Now while our new seats up in row 28 offer a fantastic view of the game it does take about 15 minutes to get out at the end. 

 

So I can agree with the poster in a fair few ways the old stand did offer a better overall match day experience.

[Marvin]

On 16/10/2018 at 09:53, Mysterion said:

Greenginger is probably the greatest ever Hearts troll ever. 

 

His ramblings make me realise there are too many basket cases out there. If he needs advice on claiming benefits I can help, well if I can be bothered.

[Thomaso]

29 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

To be fair he's not mentioning the view per se but the experience. I can kind of agree with him to a degree. Our old seats were front row rear section in T. Never had anyone walking in front of us, more leg room and the "shelf" to lean on. Yes the pillars got in the way. Got out quickly and easily at the end of the game. 

 

Roll on to last season when we kept (theoretically) our place in the new stand. Row 11, sit row behind the walk way. Constant interruptions before, during and at the end of the game (mostly due to corporates tbf). We complained to the club about it and nothing, zero, nada was done. there was a group of us 15 strong who had sat in the same seats for 25+ years. Slowly but surely people moved to get a better view of the game. Now there is only 3 remaining in that area (my wife and I moved to more expensive seats this season). Now while our new seats up in row 28 offer a fantastic view of the game it does take about 15 minutes to get out at the end. 

 

So I can agree with the poster in a fair few ways the old stand did offer a better overall match day experience.

 

Oh well that's progress for you....

Edited November 12, 2018 by Thomaso

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, McCrae said:

Surprising that no comment was made regarding how this will be financed.  Do we really want to take on debt?  Any reason why the development can’t be staggered to match our cash flow?

Am wondering if a request will come for FOH to continue with payments for the redevelopment. This would make sense. 

The development has been staggered to match our cash flow. The club have said on a number of occasions that certain aspects of the development would be completed as and when funds were available to do them.

[Taffin]

3 hours ago, SUTOL said:

 

I walked straight the till of the 'pie stall' on Sat no queue and clearly signed whether cash only or card and cash. Served politely and quickly as always. This was after 2.30. 

 

I used the toilet at half-time and was in a short queue for less than a minute, and nobody seemed to be in anyone else's way. 

 

As for the claustrophobic statement, I can only assume you have an underlying medical problem with some form of extreme claustrophobia. I sympathise with you or that. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying it isn't functional; just that's it's a horrible layout. A completely white tunnel with no outside light.

 

Its fine, it does the job. It's just disappointing that architecturally it is a horrible space to be in. It's very closed in with a low roof.

 

The back of stand course in the other stands despite needing some tlc are much more pleasant spaces to occupy.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Taffin

[FarmerTweedy]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Mistakes have been - as well documented and debated on this thread.  I have been in the construction industry for over 35 years and TBH most major projects have cost over runs due to design errors and a flawed cost plans.

You must be one of the few who thinks the view of the match was better from the old stand.

Re the bit in bold, you're absolutely correct, but that won't stop a bunch of folk coming on here and proclaiming that if this sort of cost overrun happened in any other business, folk would be getting sacked left, right and centre!

[Thomaso]

Just now, FarmerTweedy said:

The development has been staggered to match our cash flow. The club have said on a number of occasions that certain aspects of the development would be completed as and when funds were available to do them.

 

Correct. That is why the fit out of the new dressing rooms, 2nd floor, and 'Skyline' area were put on hold.

[McCrae]

Just now, FarmerTweedy said:

The development has been staggered to match our cash flow. The club have said on a number of occasions that certain aspects of the development would be completed as and when funds were available to do them.

 

Paying the extra £3 million in one year can’t be funded from our trading cash flow.

 

Either we are taking on debt or getting additional contributions from another source.

[Cade]

The New Main stand is open for matches.

The was the most important thing to get done quickly.

 

Several of the new suites and function rooms have been finished, which brings in extra revenue.

 

We can afford to take time and spend a bit more to make the rest of it absolutely top notch.

 

No point in rushing it and making needless quality compromises to save a few quid.

[Thomaso]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

 

I'm not saying it isn't functional; just that's it's a horrible layout. A completely white tunnel with no outside light.

 

Its fine, it does the job. It's just disappointing that architecturally it is a horrible space to be in. It's very closed in with a low roof.

 

The back of stand course in the other stands despite needing some tlc are much more pleasant spaces to occupy.

 

The other 3 stands have windows to the rear simply because they do not have the corporate rooms/dressing rooms/ bar/ shop/ nursery structure behind them.

 

The priority was to give the best possible viewing from the spectator stand, and the best possible corporate facilities which do have open views over the new plaza.

 

Something had to give, and that was the concourse which is purely a functional space for access to the stand seats, and toilet/fast food areas.

[Taffin]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Never been to a game in our old stand then??  You want to go to the top deck of the 'Kenny Dalgliesh' stand at Annfield for a claustrophobic concourse, not to mention many of the other numerous stands I have gone to!!

The Club will be well aware of the issues with the concourse and I am sure they will be rectified as they work through the priority areas to be completed, such as the dressing rooms.

 

The old stand at least had natural light into the back of it.

 

The logic on here seems to be:

 

Better than the old stand or other stands = perfect

 

Something can be an improvement on something else yet still have shortcomings. 

 

I got a new car last year, it's much better than my old '57 plate but I'd still like it to have a digital mph speedometer rather than km/h but it doesn't due to poor design...nothing to do with cost. Am I still happy with it? Absolutely.

 

Remember, you were the one on here telling people not to question things because the architect knew more than a bunch of simpletons on kickback (paraphrasing) prior to him being sacked and thrown under the bus for all the shortcomings in the design so I'll take you position on it all with a pinch of salt.. though I do appreciate your patience in answering questions and the insight you've given us all.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Taffin

[Taffin]

Just now, Thomaso said:

 

The other 3 stands have windows to the rear simply because they do not have the corporate rooms/dressing rooms/ bar/ shop/ nursery structure behind them.

 

The priority was to give the best possible viewing from the spectator stand, and the best possible corporate facilities which do have open views over the new plaza.

 

Something had to give, and that was the concourse which is purely a functional space for access to the stand seats, and toilet/fast food areas.

 

As I said it works. Do any of those reasons (regardless of validty) make the concourse area better? No.

 

Should it have been done differently? Sounds like no from what you've said. Again, does that mean the concourse doesn't have issues? No.

[Bull's-eye]

The new stand is Fantastic. 

 

Little else needs saying.

[iwasthere1954]

4 hours ago, UcheGang said:

Where to start? 

 

The ‘glass curtain’

 

The Plaque.

 

The magnolia paintjob.

 

The Policebox debacle.

 

 

You definitely don't have a clue. Do you.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

7 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said:

The new stand is Fantastic. 

 

Little else needs saying.

Here here 

[jambali]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Mistakes have been - as well documented and debated on this thread.  I have been in the construction industry for over 35 years and TBH most major projects have cost over runs due to design errors and a flawed cost plans.

You must be one of the few who thinks the view of the match was better from the old stand.

That's because I get blocked by people entering and leaving. (partcularly the latter as it is so slow because of the directors bit.) Also it's the only stairway where there are stewards constantly going up and down. What I said was - "better match experience" not view.

[Thomaso]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

The old stand at least had natural light into the back of it.

 

The logic on here seems to be:

 

Better than the old stand or other stands = perfect

 

Something can be an improvement on something else yet still have shortcomings. 

 

I got a new car last year, it's much better than my old '57 plate but I'd still like it to have a digital mph speedometer rather than km/h but it doesn't due to poor design...nothing to do with cost. Am I still happy with it? Absolutely.

 

Remember, you were the one on here telling people not to question things because the architect knew more than a bunch of simpletons on kickback (paraphrasing) prior to him being sacked and thrown under the bus for all the shortcomings in the design so I'll take you position on it all with a pinch of salt.

 

The old stand had natural light at the back of it??  What cracked high level windows that were mainly boarded up!

Anyway that is not the debate - there were no windows underneath the old stand seats where you got a tea or had a pee! Now THAT was a claustrophobic area!

 

I never ever questioned the right of fans on here to question aspects of the project on JKB - all I tried to do was try to correct some misunderstandings particularly with regards to the design of the glazed façade, and other aspects I was party to. I never once called anybody a "bunch of simpletons" or anything like it!

 

The "position on it all" I have stated on aspects of the new stand are based on being involved in the project.  Feel free to ignore as you wish.

[Thomaso]

12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

As I said it works. Do any of those reasons (regardless of validty) make the concourse area better? No.

 

Should it have been done differently? Sounds like no from what you've said. Again, does that mean the concourse doesn't have issues? No.

 

You specifically mentioned "no outside light" - I only tried to explain why windows to the concourse were not possible due to the complexity of the structure compared to the other 3 stands.

As I said the design focussed on the spectator seated areas and the corporate suites, etc.  By it's nature the concourse area is not particularly attractive however, again as I said previously, I think the Club will take steps to improve it as funds become available.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, jambali said:

That's because I get blocked by people entering and leaving. (partcularly the latter as it is so slow because of the directors bit.) Also it's the only stairway where there are stewards constantly going up and down. What I said was - "better match experience" not view.

 

I assume you will be moving seats next season?

[3fingersreid]

The only gripe I’ve got about our new main stand is my restricted view of the corner area of the pitch at the Roseburn /Section N area from section T . 

If the price goes up to get the best end product then so be it , do it right I say . 

Edited November 12, 2018 by 3fingersreid

[EastSideJambo]

30 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Paying the extra £3 million in one year can’t be funded from our trading cash flow.

 

Either we are taking on debt or getting additional contributions from another source.

Highly probable 

[iwasthere1954]

17 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said:

The new stand is Fantastic. 

 

Little else needs saying.

Meanwhile Tottenhams new stadium is now costing one billion pounds and rising although it's only a season late in opening!!!

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

The old stand had natural light at the back of it??  What cracked high level windows that were mainly boarded up!

Anyway that is not the debate - there were no windows underneath the old stand seats where you got a tea or had a pee! Now THAT was a claustrophobic area!

 

I never ever questioned the right of fans on here to question aspects of the project on JKB - all I tried to do was try to correct some misunderstandings particularly with regards to the design of the glazed façade, and other aspects I was party to. I never once called anybody a "bunch of simpletons" or anything like it!

 

The "position on it all" I have stated on aspects of the new stand are based on being involved in the project.  Feel free to ignore as you wish.

 

No, I don't want to ignore it as I do appreciate that without your insight we'd know a whole lot less and it is really enlightening in the main (excuse the pun) given the topic.

 

I just had look back and I apologise, your wording was never as strong as a bunch of simpletons but there was a lot of inference that people weren't qualified to comment and that the architect knows more than random people on JKB expressing personal opinion. 

 

Anyway, I like the new stand. A lot. There are bits I like less and bits I don't like. I'll keep those bits to myself in future.

[kila]

The concourse area feels very unfinished. I've said before but it won't cost much at all to even just give it a lick of paint in some inspiring Hearts way. Silhouettes of legends on the walls etc.

 

A white concourse, lowish ceiling, just feels very boring and minimal.

 

I'd be keen to get rid of the false ceiling so it is like the other stands, and put some life into the white walls.

[Thomaso]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

No, I don't want to ignore it as I do appreciate that without your insight we'd know a whole lot less and it is really enlightening in the main (excuse the pun) given the topic.

 

I just had look back and I apologise, your wording was never as strong as a bunch of simpletons but there was a lot of inference that people weren't qualified to comment and that the architect knows more than random people on JKB expressing personal opinion. 

 

Anyway, I like the new stand. A lot. There are bits I like less and bits I don't like. I'll keep those bits to myself in future.

 

At an early stage of the project there was massive criticism of the architect on here by some - specifically the design of the glazed façade. In defence of him I pointed out the cost, programme, logistical, and Building Regulations requirements that dictated his particular design for the frontage.

Regretfully later on in the project it became obvious that there were some design flaws on other aspects that may have led the Club to bring in new Architects to complete the fit-out works.

[Thomaso]

47 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Paying the extra £3 million in one year can’t be funded from our trading cash flow.

 

Either we are taking on debt or getting additional contributions from another source.

 

Not sure of Ann's specific plan with regards to funding - I am however 100% confident she will not prejudice the Club's financial position in any way.

[jambali]

32 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

I assume you will be moving seats next season?

No - as I said earlier, I'll wait for the finished product. Then decide how much I like it. Which I kind of thought was your point?

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, jambali said:

No - as I said earlier, I'll wait for the finished product. Then decide how much I like it. Which I kind of thought was your point?

 

The seated areas in the new stand are finished.  The internal fit-out to the dressing rooms and corporate areas will not effect your current viewing of the match - unless your going to move stands of course?

[davemclaren]

29 minutes ago, kila said:

The concourse area feels very unfinished. I've said before but it won't cost much at all to even just give it a lick of paint in some inspiring Hearts way. Silhouettes of legends on the walls etc.

 

A white concourse, lowish ceiling, just feels very boring and minimal.

 

I'd be keen to get rid of the false ceiling so it is like the other stands, and put some life into the white walls.

As there are floors above it i don’t think

the ceiling is false. 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

Not sure of Ann's specific plan with regards to funding - I am however 100% confident she will not prejudice the Club's financial position in any way.

We should get a better idea of the funding situation plus any debt taken on when the accounts are published later this week. 

 

Ann has previously advised that a £1.75m loan facility would be available. 

[o1djambo]

1 hour ago, Oliver Twist said:

The new stand is Fantastic. 

 

Little else needs saying.

Totally agree. As an ancient supporter I am in great trim with the new stand. All money well spent and an investment for the future. Who knows what is ahead within Scottish football, perhaps differing levels of European leagues. Good to know that I am contributing to leaving a healthy club when I go and great satisfaction to know that you all will continue to suffer the anxiety attacks at least when sitting comfortably.

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, o1djambo said:

Totally agree. As an ancient supporter I am in great trim with the new stand. All money well spent and an investment for the future. Who knows what is ahead within Scottish football, perhaps differing levels of European leagues. Good to know that I am contributing to leaving a healthy club when I go and great satisfaction to know that you all will continue to suffer the anxiety attacks at least when sitting comfortably.

 

??? great post old timer, good to see there's still a few around looking at the long term picture in this throw away society we now live in.

[kila]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

As there are floors above it i don’t think

the ceiling is false. 

 

Yeah but there is probably half a metre of space above the false ceiling where the air ducting etc are - it'd be like the fans' bar.

 

For a concourse that is to hold thousands of people, a false ceiling just makes it feel more cramped.

 

 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, kila said:

 

Yeah but there is probably half a metre of space above the false ceiling where the air ducting etc are - it'd be like the fans' bar.

 

For a concourse that is to hold thousands of people, a false ceiling just makes it feel more cramped.

 

 

Fair enough if you like that modern feel. ?

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Not sure of Ann's specific plan with regards to funding - I am however 100% confident she will not prejudice the Club's financial position in any way.

How can you possibly be 100% confident when you don't know how the extra 6-7m is to be funded. It may not prejudice the financial position in the sense of creating a dangerous level of debt but I will be surprised if it doesn't have some impact on funds available for the player budget.

[i8hibsh]

These gender neutral toilets are expensive eh

 

 

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How can you possibly be 100% confident when you don't know how the extra 6-7m is to be funded. It may not prejudice the financial position in the sense of creating a dangerous level of debt but I will be surprised if it doesn't have some impact on funds available for the player budget.

 

Deary me, you just can't help yourself

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Give a rest FA - you asked all this on the other thread on countless occasions - and was given answers.

I have never been told what is in the current spec that wasn"t in the spec when the cost was quoted as 11m with 1m contingency. I was responding to suggestions that the cost overrun was due to wider stadium redevelopment when you yourself have stated that it is mainly due to the original architect's unrealistic guesstimate (your word) which was accepted by the club without it seems( my words) due diigence through independent advice.

Hopefully the AGM will tell us enough for me to "give it a rest" (on this specific question at least!)

Edited November 12, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said:

 

Deary me, you just can't help yourself

How does that address my point?

Edited November 12, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

I have never been told what is in the current spec that wasn"t in the spec when the cost was quoted as 11m with 1m contingency. I was responding to suggestions that the cost overrun was due to wider stadium redevelopment when you yourself have stated that it is mainly due to the original architect's unrealistic guesstimate (your word) which was accepted by the club without itvseems( my words) due diigence through independent advice.

Hopefully the AGM will tell us enough for me to "give it a rest" (on this specific question at least!)

Extra toilets, fans bar, tv studio , new pitch , new undersoil heating system , various other adjustments 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Extra toilets, fans bar, tv studio , new pitch , new undersoil heating system , various other adjustments 

And that accounts even if true (we forgot about the need for a TV studio or we didn't actually need one?) for 6-7m extra? Bollox. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

And that accounts even if true (we forgot about the need for a TV studio or we didn't actually need one?) for 6-7m extra? Bollox. 

Will you be attending the agm FA?