New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[Jamborello]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

We seem to have developed an insatiable appetite for swallowing bullshit.

Some seem to have developed an insatiable appetite for spouting it.

[luckydug]

23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. I am not fussed with the delay either and the suddenly very popular Murrayfield gives us the opportunity with good marketing and some decent performances to build attendances so we can fill the new stand.

 

What annoys me is bullshit from the club. The stuff about the original delay being due to the summer weather in Edinburgh followed within 24 hours by a complete reversal. Astonishingly both announcements were praised on here for their open-ness and honesty! Now high winds risking opening two months later.

 

Not to mention the stuff about the brilliant candidates we had for the head coach job, all of whom were impressive in interview, only for Ann to suddenly have the light bulb moment when she realised we had the right man sitting in his office at Tynecastle or Riccarton all along.

 

I'd like the club to treat us like moderately intelligent adults.

Doesn't matter what the club do or say.

You will always find fault in any case.

It seems to be how you get your kicks.

 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

I don't care at all.  I did care when Pieman tried to con us with a permanent move to Murrayfield but whether it is Guy Fawkes night or later is irrelevant to me, as is all the faux outrage on here.

One of my least favorite things on here is people belittling the opinions of others with a "faux outrage" tag - just because you don't feel the same doesn't mean it's fake.

Edited October 20, 2017 by ManMoth

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, JAMBONI said:

 

The lettering of "VOTE".... should be bigger I think

 

Poor quality font as well. 

[Francis Albert]

11 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Doesn't matter what the club do or say.

You will always find fault in any case.

It seems to be how you get your kicks.

 

Your response to my criticism of the club is to accuse me of getting my kicks from criticising the club.

 

About as persuasive as the club's PR.

[Tazio]

2 hours ago, CMc said:

 

Think the official name is a torque gun. 

 

Same thing mechanics use use to get wheels on and off. 

 

Impact driver.

[CMc]

4 minutes ago, ManMoth said:

One of my least favorite things on here is people belittling the opinions of others with a "faux outrage" tag - just because you don't feel the same doesn't mean it's fake.

Whilst this is true, the nature of the internet means that real feelings get amplified to avoid posting along the lines of, “I am mildly disgruntled with this in the rare moments in which I think about it”.

 

The extremes, both positive and negative, are what get responses and therefore it is natural for folk to play up or down how”whelmed” they are - even if subconsciously. 

[CMc]

6 minutes ago, Tazio said:

 

Impact driver.

 

[Boab]

1 minute ago, CMc said:

Whilst this is true, the nature of the internet means that real feelings get amplified to avoid posting along the lines of, “I am mildly disgruntled with this in the rare moments in which I think about it”.

 

The extremes, both positive and negative, are what get responses and therefore it is natural for folk to play up or down how”whelmed” they are - even if subconsciously. 

Of course !

I suppose if there is another delay, most people...I'm sure...will look at the bigger picture.

Some will be moaning when this bad boy is open and filled every week. Make of that what you will.

[barcajambo]

58 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. I am not fussed with the delay either and the suddenly very popular Murrayfield gives us the opportunity with good marketing and some decent performances to build attendances so we can fill the new stand.

 

What annoys me is bullshit from the club. The stuff about the original delay being due to the summer weather in Edinburgh followed within 24 hours by a complete reversal. Astonishingly both announcements were praised on here for their open-ness and honesty! Now high winds risking opening two months later.

 

Not to mention the stuff about the brilliant candidates we had for the head coach job, all of whom were impressive in interview, only for Ann to suddenly have the light bulb moment when she realised we had the right man sitting in his office at Tynecastle or Riccarton all along.

 

I'd like the club to treat us like moderately intelligent adults.

Spot on FA.

 

Ann has made lots of fantastic changes at the club and ultimately saved the club.

 

But the two things that piss me off is the bullshit excuses they come out with and the treatment of some very loyal employees.

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

The seats need something to sit on? Well yes but there is no explanation of why the failure to order the seats meant that what they had to sit on is delayed by two months or why the roof over the seats is delayed by two months.

The bottom line is we are going to be 8 to 10 weeks late and around 15% over budget , quite frankly I think that is more than acceptable. 

The timescale we set was obv far to aggressive but what a fabulous effort the whole team have made trying to achieve it . 

Yes there have been a few howlers along the way., but thats life , nothing is ever bullet proof . 

Every Hearts fan should embrace what will be a fabulous achievement come completion . That's the way I see it anyway . 

[socrates82]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. I am not fussed with the delay either and the suddenly very popular Murrayfield gives us the opportunity with good marketing and some decent performances to build attendances so we can fill the new stand.

 

What annoys me is bullshit from the club. The stuff about the original delay being due to the summer weather in Edinburgh followed within 24 hours by a complete reversal. Astonishingly both announcements were praised on here for their open-ness and honesty! Now high winds risking opening two months later.

 

Not to mention the stuff about the brilliant candidates we had for the head coach job, all of whom were impressive in interview, only for Ann to suddenly have the light bulb moment when she realised we had the right man sitting in his office at Tynecastle or Riccarton all along.

 

I'd like the club to treat us like moderately intelligent adults.

 

So you're saying the club is constantly lying to the fans? Bold position to take and something you'd expect from a fan of an opposing team. What happened to "benefit of the doubt"?

Edited October 20, 2017 by socrates82

[portobellojambo1]

While it would be nice if the new stand is match ready for the 5 November it doesn't bother me in the slightest if it takes a little longer. I've read some critical things both on here and on Facebook that have given me a better idea of some of the Hearts fans I occupy the same stadium with. I look at what is being built, and what I see is a stand, different from what we had, but much more up to date. I've never once walked past it and thought to myself, that looks shit, that is the wrong place, this could be better, all I see is our new stand in the making. If once fully functional the facilities then available to those who in some case have paid £2,500+ for their seats match their expectations so much better. If on the pitch side the seating helps create a noisy, intimidating atmosphere within Tynecastle, even better. Its a stand, and it will be finished when it is finished, and with a bit luck match ready (different from finished) for Sunday 5 November.

Edited October 20, 2017 by portobellojambo1

[socrates82]

The club made a bit of a rod for our own backs - although I'm surprised at the amount of criticism from Hearts fans (you can see why we are now known as an incredibly torn-faced, moany support) - by committing to such a tight timeline but it was necessary to allow for some planning around fixtures so they obviously erred on the side of optimism. 

 

But all these complaints seem a bit out of order. What building project ever happens on time and on budget, even small home improvements? I looked at the schedule and though it sounded good but was fully expecting delays.

 

Considering the uncertainty around the ground since the Pieman days you'd think fans would deal with a few months delay.

Edited October 20, 2017 by socrates82

[Jamboelite]

10 minutes ago, ramrod said:

The bottom line is we are going to be 8 to 10 weeks late and around 15% over budget , quite frankly I think that is more than acceptable. 

The timescale we set was obv far to aggressive but what a fabulous effort the whole team have made trying to achieve it . 

Yes there have been a few howlers along the way., but thats life , nothing is ever bullet proof . 

Every Hearts fan should embrace what will be a fabulous achievement come completion . That's the way I see it anyway . 

 

If you were directing that at someone with a rational, well balanced opinion it would be hard to disagree but your directing it at someone who thrives on baiting and taking the contrary view only to then post later about how he wasnt taking that view at all.

[AndyNic]

FA clearly not understanding construction programmes here. 

[zoltan socrates]

3 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

Bacon roll ?

Saved

 

[Hackney Hearts]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What annoys me is bullshit from the club. The stuff about the original delay being due to the summer weather in Edinburgh followed within 24 hours by a complete reversal. Astonishingly both announcements were praised on here for their open-ness and honesty! Now high winds risking opening two months later.

 

Not to mention the stuff about the brilliant candidates we had for the head coach job, all of whom were impressive in interview, only for Ann to suddenly have the light bulb moment when she realised we had the right man sitting in his office at Tynecastle or Riccarton all along.

 

I'd like the club to treat us like moderately intelligent adults.

 

The trouble is, if you always read the worst into every situation, it's like the boy who cried wolf.

For instance, of your three examples, you clearly have a point re the ordering of the seats - at whatever time it was discovered there'd been a **** up, it must have been very embarrassing for the club and yes, they could have handled it better. But the latest comment about 'high winds' you have over-blown (ha) completely; in context, she didn't say the winds by themselves were jeopardising the 5th Nov opening, it was just something they could obviously have done without. As for the managerial appointment, I have no problem accepting the account of events at face value, i.e. 1) I'm sure they did interview some strong candidates*, and 2)  I believe CL, on reflection, will have appeared to tick more boxes than anyone else. Not sure why there has to be a conspiracy theory.

 

*BTW, saying the candidates were excellent is not bullshit, or rampant spin - it's just common decency to all concerned. No-one says 'sorry everyone, best of a bad lot I'm afraid'.

[Jamboelite]

12 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

While it would be nice if the new stand is match ready for the 5 November it doesn't bother me in the slightest if it takes a little longer. I've read some critical things both on here and on Facebook that have given me a better idea of some of the Hearts fans I occupy the same stadium with. I look at what is being built, and what I see is a stand, different from what we had, but much more up to date. I've never once walked past it and thought to myself, that looks shit, that is the wrong place, this could be better, all I see is our new stand in the making. If once fully functional the facilities then available to those who in some case have paid £2,500+ for their seats match their expectations so much better. If on the pitch side the seating helps create a noisy, intimidating atmosphere within Tynecastle, even better. Its a stand, and it will be finished when it is finished, and with a bit luck match ready (different from finished) for Sunday 5 November.

 

Totally agree.

 

When all is said and done what does it matter if its late ? We have a good working plan to pay the remainder of it off and will have effectively paid out £14m while not adding to any long term debt.

 

its a ****ing miracle to be honest and not something i expected 4 years on from when we were in serious trouble.

 

[Jamboelite]

4 minutes ago, zoltan socrates said:

Saved

 

 

[socrates82]

11 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

The trouble is, if you always read the worst into every situation, it's like the boy who cried wolf.

For instance, of your three examples, you clearly have a point re the ordering of the seats - at whatever time it was discovered there'd been a ***k up, it must have been very embarrassing for the club and yes, they could have handled it better. But the latest comment about 'high winds' you have over-blown (ha) completely; in context, she didn't say the winds by themselves were jeopardising the 5th Nov opening, it was just something they could obviously have done without. As for the managerial appointment, I have no problem accepting the account of events at face value, i.e. 1) I'm sure they did interview some strong candidates*, and 2)  I believe CL, on reflection, will have appeared to tick more boxes than anyone else. Not sure why there has to be a conspiracy theory.

 

*BTW, saying the candidates were excellent is not bullshit, or rampant spin - it's just common decency to all concerned. No-one says 'sorry everyone, best of a bad lot I'm afraid'.

 

It's also actually quite common in all businesses to interview people but then appoint someone already working there. Imagine the seethe if Budge just appointed Levein without exploring other options. she can't win with some folk it seems. 

[zoltan socrates]

9 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

 

 

[Francis Albert]

39 minutes ago, socrates82 said:

 

So you're saying the club is constantly lying to the fans? Bold position to take and something you'd expect from a fan of an opposing team. What happened to "benefit of the doubt"?

Where did I say constantly lying? I have said the first excuse for the first delay was nonsense, which fact wasn't even acknowledged in the second explanation. And that the risk of a second delay seems to be more to do with the rescheduling of work rather than a couple of days of high wind. I have no problem with the delays nor even with the seat ordering ****** up - these things happen. Just with the PR spin.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

 

Totally agree.

 

When all is said and done what does it matter if its late ? We have a good working plan to pay the remainder of it off and will have effectively paid out £14m while not adding to any long term debt.

 

its a ****ing miracle to be honest and not something i expected 4 years on from when we were in serious trouble.

 

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

[socrates82]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Where did I say constantly lying? I have said the first excuse for the first delay was nonsense, which fact wasn't even acknowledged in the second explanation. And that the risk of a second delay seems to be more to do with the rescheduling of work rather than a couple of days of high wind. I have no problem with the delays nor even with the seat ordering ****** up - these things happen. Just with the PR spin.

 

It's only your opinion that it's PR spin. I really don't think we have a sophisticated PR machine at Hearts capable of spin to be honest. Do we even have a PR guy? Budge seems pretty down to earth to me. You yourself could be accused of putting your own negative spin on stand and FoH related stuff in particular.

Edited October 20, 2017 by socrates82

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

Sponsored silence on JKB ? ☺

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Ah. That's what we should be comparing our £14m spend with. A (fairly cheap) 100 year old building and some ghastly 60's construction.

 

 

what do  you suggest?

 

 

[Tazio]

48 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

While it would be nice if the new stand is match ready for the 5 November it doesn't bother me in the slightest if it takes a little longer. I've read some critical things both on here and on Facebook that have given me a better idea of some of the Hearts fans I occupy the same stadium with. I look at what is being built, and what I see is a stand, different from what we had, but much more up to date. I've never once walked past it and thought to myself, that looks shit, that is the wrong place, this could be better, all I see is our new stand in the making. If once fully functional the facilities then available to those who in some case have paid £2,500+ for their seats match their expectations so much better. If on the pitch side the seating helps create a noisy, intimidating atmosphere within Tynecastle, even better. Its a stand, and it will be finished when it is finished, and with a bit luck match ready (different from finished) for Sunday 5 November.

 

Steady on with the common sense there PJ1.

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

Sell Tynecastle and move, only sensible option.

 

 

 

[Dunks]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

[socrates82]

17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

You're sounding very Hibs so this is probably appropriate as one of their favourites:

 

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, socrates82 said:

 

It's only your opinion that it's PR spin. I really don't think we have a sophisticated PR machine at Hearts capable of spin to be honest. Do we even have a PR guy? Budge seems pretty down to earth to me. You yourself could be accused of putting your own negative spin on stand and FoH related stuff in particular.

I certainly agree we don't have a sophisticated PR machine.

[Unknown user]

59 minutes ago, socrates82 said:

 

So you're saying the club is constantly lying to the fans? Bold position to take and something you'd expect from a fan of an opposing team. What happened to "benefit of the doubt"?

I just want to say here that I do think every football club is pretty much constantly lying to the fans in one way or another, simply because they have a job to do in terms of how personnel feel, what sponsors see, what they want fans to focus on or think etc. In fact that goes for pretty much all companies, governments, political parties etc etc - it's a world of spin these days.

 

Yes I'm a cynical count, but I think you've got to be mental not to be!

[Elias Henry Furst]

Bad times when your usually reliable contrary approach is seen through and the more aggressive .net type questioning is required.

 

Whatever it takes to get a Friday night thrill I suppose.

 

 

[kingantti1874]

32 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

 

Yes.. The bit where the club outlined the site of the shortfall, re iterated their confidence that the funds will be in place and confirmed that in the unlikely event that its is required a £2m pound facility is already  in place and can be drawn down.. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by kingantti1874

[redm]

I honestly couldn't care less if it's slightly delayed. It's coming, and it'll be ready when it's ready. Nobody's sitting there spending hours trying to figure out how to pull the wool over our eyes, they're just not going into heaps of boring detail about how certain little things impact other little things and occasionally mean bigger problems and delays.  I'm good with that, probably because I'm not looking for someone to blame for every single tiny little problem that occurs and in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't even matter.

 

We're going to have a magnificent new stand to sit in very soon. That's great no matter what way you look at it surely? 

 

 

[Jamboelite]

44 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What is the plan to meet the funding shortfall? Have I missed something?

 

It was.......im mean.....you know.....ahhhh i give up if thats all you took from what i posted.

 

 

[Macros]

1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

While it would be nice if the new stand is match ready for the 5 November it doesn't bother me in the slightest if it takes a little longer. I've read some critical things both on here and on Facebook that have given me a better idea of some of the Hearts fans I occupy the same stadium with. I look at what is being built, and what I see is a stand, different from what we had, but much more up to date. I've never once walked past it and thought to myself, that looks shit, that is the wrong place, this could be better, all I see is our new stand in the making. If once fully functional the facilities then available to those who in some case have paid £2,500+ for their seats match their expectations so much better. If on the pitch side the seating helps create a noisy, intimidating atmosphere within Tynecastle, even better. Its a stand, and it will be finished when it is finished, and with a bit luck match ready (different from finished) for Sunday 5 November.

 

Totally agree. Come on this forum at times and wonder if I'm the only Hearts fan on at the time, or the only one who's not fully qualified in quantity surveying, building construction, graphic design, electrical engineering, architecture blah de blah. 

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

The bottom line is we are going to be 8 to 10 weeks late and around 15% over budget , quite frankly I think that is more than acceptable. 

The timescale we set was obv far to aggressive but what a fabulous effort the whole team have made trying to achieve it . 

Yes there have been a few howlers along the way., but thats life , nothing is ever bullet proof . 

Every Hearts fan should embrace what will be a fabulous achievement come completion . That's the way I see it anyway . 

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

That's a poor analogy, it's nothing like the same situation. With a project like this there's always a significant possibility of going over budget and time, that's not a relative norm in buying a house. 

[Jamboelite]

Just now, Jambo-Fox said:

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

 

Its not a house its a stand and on that size of project there is always likely to be increase in cost and delay whether because of you, the contractor or unforseen circumstances.

 

Adding in a timescale that from the off was hugely challenging but something that the club went after and the comparison to building your house becomes a shite analogy.

 

More than acceptable is maybe the wrong words perhaps understandable and tolerable are more apt.

[fila]

1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

While it would be nice if the new stand is match ready for the 5 November it doesn't bother me in the slightest if it takes a little longer. I've read some critical things both on here and on Facebook that have given me a better idea of some of the Hearts fans I occupy the same stadium with. I look at what is being built, and what I see is a stand, different from what we had, but much more up to date. I've never once walked past it and thought to myself, that looks shit, that is the wrong place, this could be better, all I see is our new stand in the making. If once fully functional the facilities then available to those who in some case have paid £2,500+ for their seats match their expectations so much better. If on the pitch side the seating helps create a noisy, intimidating atmosphere within Tynecastle, even better. Its a stand, and it will be finished when it is finished, and with a bit luck match ready (different from finished) for Sunday 5 November.

 

This is spot on for me , the delays are unfortunate and I do feel for any supporter who has bought a season for the new stand and cannot wait to take up their seat. This site is infested with people who are out and out hibs supporters for sure , who plant the seeds , some more subtle than others. 

All I know , is that in a few months time we are going to have one hell of a new stand to admire . There is currently a thread on bitterness , well the new stand will certainly help create some more , even if its veiled in the mocking of it !

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, ManMoth said:

That's a poor analogy, it's nothing like the same situation. With a project like this there's always a significant possibility of going over budget and time, that's not a relative norm in buying a house. 

 

Not a poor analogy, a terrible one !

 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Boab said:

 

Not a poor analogy, a terrible one !

 

I stand corrected

[Phil D. Corners]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

 

Wait till you buy a house of plan. 

[ramrod]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

People by new build houses daily  and their completion dates are often put back . I know this it's happened to friends and family quite recently . 

Building projects often come in over budget as plans are tweeked 

slightly.

its not about tolerance it's about reality . 

[scott herbertson]

16 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You are massively tolerant!

 

just say you buy a house for £100,000 with a move in date of 1st September.

 

on the basis of this you move out of your current home on the 31st of August only to be told that your new house will not be ready until 1st November (but possibly mid November)

and

the price you now must pay for your new house is £115,00!

 

is that more than acceptable????

 

 

Bought an an old house in August . There was a two week delay in completing as we found it difficult to get insurance (listed building with stuff in the grounds)

 

we knew from our surveys there wasn’t work to be done which was reflected in a reduced price. I wanted the work done to price by this weekend as my daughter has friends coming up to stay for half term (in England).

 

Guess what, the builders have found some more issues and work was delayed while we cross checked on price and whether the work was necessary or just desirable. Tha delayed the roofer coming in and then Ophelia came along.

 

When we started we were aiming at this weekend ,  but I  knew it was ambitious and we had a contingency plan for where the kids could stay which we have now resorted to.

 

These things happen all the time, even on small projects

 

personally I agree with the excellent post by Portobellojambo above. We’re getting a brilliant new stand which given where we were three years ago is just short of a miracle. The reason it’s not a miracle is because WE did this with our contributions and our loyalty to the club we support. When a few minor things go wrong in a major project like this, I’m inclined to be surprised it wasn’t worse, not looking for scapegoats to explain or take the blame for every issue.

 

if the club wants to spin it a bit then yes, it would be good if they were better at it, but I’m more concerned with the well-being of the club on and off the pitch, and that is in better hands than any time before in my lifetime.

Edited October 20, 2017 by scott herbertson

[busby1985]

Dear thread. 

 

More pictures, less pr*cks. 

 

Thanks. 

 

Everyone. 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

1 minute ago, busby1985 said:

Dear thread. 

 

More pictures, less pr*cks. 

 

Thanks. 

 

Everyone. 

 

That is a terrible point of view..  It should be fewer pr*cks.