Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Hmm it's risky move though...It'll probably cost about a trillion pounds and affect 37 million Scottish jobs! Scotland can't do anything without England wiping our hoops don't you know that?[emoji1] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Of course. How remiss of me. I really should know my place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The way the EU works farm subsidies are probably the biggest way we get our money back because agriculture support is enshrined in EU economics. However, if we leave its possible that we decide that that money be better spent elsewhere and we can open our borders to cheap imports rather than supporting farmers. (Even from the EU). Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm not an IT techy, but surely these systems already exist and would just need tweeked to service Scotland, rather than Scotland as part of the UK? I am an IT techy and tweaks don't come cheap, especially not when governments are involved. You think these systems would have been made in a generic manner just in case the whole of the UK broke up so it wouldn't require major change in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The way the EU works farm subsidies are probably the biggest way we get our money back because agriculture support is enshrined in EU economics. However, if we leave its possible that we decide that that money be better spent elsewhere and we can open our borders to cheap imports rather than supporting farmers. (Even from the EU). Who knows. Do you think that is a wise strategic decision? i.e. become even more reliant on imports to feed ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I am an IT techy and tweaks don't come cheap, especially not when governments are involved. You think these systems would have been made in a generic manner just in case the whole of the UK broke up so it wouldn't require major change in future? Your first coment suggests that the industry deliberately milks a government contract. Isn't that tantamount to fraud? No, I don't thank that systems would have been future proffed on the scenario of the UK breaking up. My (rather naive it would seem) point was that if the system is doing X for the UK, surely it can do the same function for an independent Scotland (or Wales, England, N.Ireland) by changing a few parameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 What are you slavering about. The living wage pickin tatties would be a wage rise. Bit hey its EU migrants that wait for the bus at the top of easter road to do that. Whey hay the EU. If people are naive enough to believe this organisation is a good thing for peoples rights over the needs of capitalist ideals are barking. Freedom of movement has benefited strong economies in need of cheaper labour. Do you honestly think anything else. Loving brexit . Well done little england Increasing wages for 'picking tattles' isn't practical, it is and always will be a low paid job. If you increase 'picker' wages you need to increase the price the farm sell to the supermarket to cover the increased expenditure, if you increase that then supermarket either then buys from abroad cheaper(putting the farm workers out of a job) or still buys them but increases the shelf price as a result to compensate for its own increased costs. If that happens then the cost of living increases ergo the the "living wage" would need to increase as a result - and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Once again, various high power leaders of EU nations have stated that the UK will not get an easy ride when negotiating Article 50. And once more they have stated that free movement of capital and goods is proviso on free movement of people. We're getting pumped dry if the Brexiteers go for hard brexit with closed borders. I get that it Brexit won't be an easy ride, but why then do some people take what EU leaders say on this as gospel, but then rubbish them when they say Scotland will exit the EU along with the rest of the UK and won't be automatically allowed to join again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I get that it Brexit won't be an easy ride, but why then do some people take what EU leaders say on this as gospel, but then rubbish them when they say Scotland will exit the EU along with the rest of the UK and won't be automatically allowed to join again?That's a good point. The hypocrisy on display from loads of posters is actually pretty funny depending on what angle they're coming from. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I get that it Brexit won't be an easy ride, but why then do some people take what EU leaders say on this as gospel, but then rubbish them when they say Scotland will exit the EU along with the rest of the UK and won't be automatically allowed to join again? By EU leaders do you mean leaders of individual EU nations, or do you mean EU officials? Regards the point you make, the EU will do what is in the best interests of the EU. I believe that free movement is a "red line" for the EU, whereas letting an independent Scotland join is comletely different. But that is simply my opinion. I guess we would only know the answer if/when these things happen. It would seem, legally at least as far as I understand, that were the UK to leave the EU, and then subsequently Scotland left the UK, Scotland at that point would NOT be in the EU, therefore automatic entry would be moot. Were Scotland to leave the UK prior to the UK leaving the EU, or rather in theperiod of negotiation after article 50 was triggered, it may be easier for the EU to accept entry. But that is just a cack handed amateur analysis on my part. But to return to your original point, I suppose people believe what they want to believe. Seems quite a common thing. I had (mis-placed perhaps) faith that Nade would come good for us eventually. Despite all the evidence to the contrary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 By EU leaders do you mean leaders of individual EU nations, or do you mean EU officials? Regards the point you make, the EU will do what is in the best interests of the EU. I believe that free movement is a "red line" for the EU, whereas letting an independent Scotland join is comletely different. But that is simply my opinion. I guess we would only know the answer if/when these things happen. It would seem, legally at least as far as I understand, that were the UK to leave the EU, and then subsequently Scotland left the UK, Scotland at that point would NOT be in the EU, therefore automatic entry would be moot. Were Scotland to leave the UK prior to the UK leaving the EU, or rather in theperiod of negotiation after article 50 was triggered, it may be easier for the EU to accept entry. But that is just a cack handed amateur analysis on my part. But to return to your original point, I suppose people believe what they want to believe. Seems quite a common thing. I had (mis-placed perhaps) faith that Nade would come good for us eventually. Despite all the evidence to the contrary! You're right, people will believe what they want to believe. I suppose my main point was, as jack D and coke pointed out, is the hypocrisy of some people, not all, but most definitely some on here, UK leaves Eu equals doom and gloom, Scotland leaves UK equals land of milk and honey, and vice versa from people on the other side of the argument, UK leaves EU equals happy days, Scotland leaves UK equals the sky falling in. The final outcome of either probably lies somewhere in between, and for the common man, nothing much will change at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 They pay agencies this money, not the workers. Fecking agencies bus them in from Poland etc... themselves to exploit them, ffs.They may pay agencies but the agencies still have to abide by UK employment law and pay minimum wage. Its a legal requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I am an IT techy and tweaks don't come cheap, especially not when governments are involved. You think these systems would have been made in a generic manner just in case the whole of the UK broke up so it wouldn't require major change in future? The Scottish Government is already a functioning Government with full powers over many matters. They have the systems and people dealing with most things now. Many countries that become independent start from scratch. Scotland is more fortunate than not given its position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Increasing wages for 'picking tattles' isn't practical, it is and always will be a low paid job. If you increase 'picker' wages you need to increase the price the farm sell to the supermarket to cover the increased expenditure, if you increase that then supermarket either then buys from abroad cheaper(putting the farm workers out of a job) or still buys them but increases the shelf price as a result to compensate for its own increased costs. If that happens then the cost of living increases ergo the the "living wage" would need to increase as a result - and repeat. This is true. I was making the point about freedom of movement. Its lauded as some kind of neo liberal human right. It is in my opinion to benefit strong economys with cheap labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 This is true. I was making the point about freedom of movement. Its lauded as some kind of neo liberal human right. It is in my opinion to benefit strong economys with cheap labour. How can it be cheap labour, in the UK's case, if there is a minimum wage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 How can it be cheap labour, in the UK's case, if there is a minimum wage? Genuine question, does the minimum wage always get paid? I know companies have to sign up to the living wage, is there something similar to the minimum wage, or is that set in stone and all employers must pay it? (apart from those that give cash in hand of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Genuine question, does the minimum wage always get paid? I know companies have to sign up to the living wage, is there something similar to the minimum wage, or is that set in stone and all employers must pay it? (apart from those that give cash in hand of course) https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/who-gets-the-minimum-wage Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 How can it be cheap labour, in the UK's case, if there is a minimum wage? Dunno bout you but i can just about get by and im on double that. The point im making is that everyone gets misty eyed about freedom of movement. And this countries parliament brought in the minimum wage. Im not sure what the craick is in other member states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Can someone give an explanation of what "soft Brexit" means? It's a phrase I never heard during the referendum campaign and I've never seen defined. Is it just "remain, but without representation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 There is no definition of Soft Brexit but most media pundits consider it to be remaining within the single market. Both sides in the debate suggested that a no vote meant leaving the single market. Breiteers saw this as a positive, remainers suggested leaving the single market would lead to disaster. Andrew Neil was talking about this on his politics programme at lunchtime today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Do you think that is a wise strategic decision? i.e. become even more reliant on imports to feed ourselves? I have mixed feelings. There has been much controversy over the huge amount of EC subsidies that goes to mega rich landowners. I was mainly making the point that leaving the EU opens up options. I voted remain for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I have mixed feelings. There has been much controversy over the huge amount of EC subsidies that goes to mega rich landowners. I was mainly making the point that leaving the EU opens up options. I voted remain for what its worth. We could of course seize the means of production, collectivise the farms, create agrarian armies and all live happily ever after! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 They may pay agencies but the agencies still have to abide by UK employment law and pay minimum wage. Its a legal requirement.Not if you pay them outside of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Dunno bout you but i can just about get by and im on double that. The point im making is that everyone gets misty eyed about freedom of movement. And this countries parliament brought in the minimum wage. Im not sure what the craick is in other member states. But as was mentioned previously, it is those migrants who are doing the low paid jobs our own nationals won't do. Without them, our economy is (even more) Friared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Looks like our negotiators better start practicing their pigeon French. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-negotiator-talks-french-michel-barnier-negotiation-insists-eu-article-50-conducted-a7373556.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Wallonia. The mouse that roared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 But as was mentioned previously, it is those migrants who are doing the low paid jobs our own nationals won't do. Without them, our economy is (even more) Friared! Exactly. Thats why freedom of movement was put in place. And also i work beside a lot of these guys. Many have worked all over the EU. They tell tales of unscrupulous employers. Im not fooled by the EU is wonderful chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/b66284cde232d5d6ec45f451aa42fb57.jpg Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Thats got to go down as a top ten pathetic post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The tone coming from the EU seem's to be one of spitefulness. How dare Britain leave?!? We democratically voted to leave after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The tone coming from the EU seem's to be one of spitefulness. How dare Britain leave?!? We democratically voted to leave after all. Democracy is not a strong point of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Democracy is not a strong point of the EU. They definitely don't like somebody rocking the boat. It reminds me a lot of organisations like FIFA, IOC, EUEFA and even our own SFA, while claiming to be an accountable and democratic organisation, the reality is that it's more or less jobs for the boys, with a position somewhere in that organisation for life, unless you wish to retire with a healthy pension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Democracy is not a strong point of the EU. Democracy is alive and well, you were given a choice and the pros and cons were laid bare. Out meant out, no cherry picking. What are you moaning about? Have you no jam recipes jake? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 They definitely don't like somebody rocking the boat. They have just had their boat well and truly rocked more that people seem to think. Go Willomia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Democracy is alive and well, you were given a choice and the pros and cons were laid bare. Out meant out, no cherry picking. What are you moaning about? Have you no jam recipes jake? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The only ones moaning on a daiky business are the same people who want parliament to oppose the peoples vote. Or them blaming everything on brexit. You know something makeral if Scotland votes for independence the arguments you make will be made against our break away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The only ones moaning on a daiky business are the same people who want parliament to oppose the peoples vote. Or them blaming everything on brexit. You know something makeral if Scotland votes for independence the arguments you make will be made against our break away. I'm not moaning about it. Brexit was the best thing that could happen to us who want Scotland to be able to free and make its own calls. I just like laughing at the naivety that's be shown by Leave voters. Name one good thing to happen since the UK voted to leave, just one. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm not moaning about it. Brexit was the best thing that could happen to us who want Scotland to be able to free and make its own calls. I just like laughing at the naivety that's be shown by Leave voters. Name one good thing to happen since the UK voted to leave, just one. David Cameron resigned Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm not moaning about it. Brexit was the best thing that could happen to us who want Scotland to be able to free and make its own calls. I just like laughing at the naivety that's be shown by Leave voters. Name one good thing to happen since the UK voted to leave, just one. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The best thing that happened since Brexit was the final nail being driven into the Braveheart coffin. It got rid of Cameron and put a woman in No.10 who won't take any shit from Nicky Studgeon and her rancid party of freaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm not moaning about it. Brexit was the best thing that could happen to us who want Scotland to be able to free and make its own calls. I just like laughing at the naivety that's be shown by Leave voters. Name one good thing to happen since the UK voted to leave, just one. David Cameron resigned Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk That it? Economy down the swanny to evict him from his job? And he was a multi millionaire before, I doubt he's that bovvered. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The best thing that happened since Brexit was the final nail being driven into the Braveheart coffin. It got rid of Cameron and put a woman in No.10 who won't take any shit from Nicky Studgeon and her rancid party of freaks. Shame she's being given the riddy by the EU leaders last night at the dinner. Giving her 5 minute speech whilst the waiters were cleaning the tables Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By The Light.. Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Wallonia. The mouse that roared. Yes under reported by the remoaners but that is a completely failed trade deal with Canada. Probably the end of trade deals in the EU forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Shame she's being given the riddy by the EU leaders last night at the dinner. Giving her 5 minute speech whilst the waiters were cleaning the tables Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Which is about 4.58m more than Juncker gave Nicky when she popped round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Which is about 4.58m more than Juncker gave Nicky when she popped round. [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Who are 'Scotland' in the context of the EU? http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/scotland-is-told-it-wont-be-able-to-stay-in-the-eu-after-brexit-5967168/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Who are 'Scotland' in the context of the EU? It's the green bit at the the top mate. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 A region of the country that is (soon to be no longer) a member of the EU, namely The United Kingdom? (That's all of it, mate). With absolutely no chance (if by some miracle Scotland becomes Indy) of joining the EU afterwards? Give up. Find another cause to bore us with (one that has a chance of being a success). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Who are 'Scotland' in the context of the EU? http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/scotland-is-told-it-wont-be-able-to-stay-in-the-eu-after-brexit-5967168/ Nothing, no matter what Sturgeon or the other right-on ******s in the SNP say. It was a British vote after Scotland remained within. It's as simple as that. I voted yes in 2014 and leave as the argument was the same. I'm getting heavily pissed off at how the SNP have treated both decisions, their holier than thou attitude and posturing when these matters have been put to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Shame she's being given the riddy by the EU leaders last night at the dinner. Giving her 5 minute speech whilst the waiters were cleaning the tables Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Think it says more about them than theresa may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Think it says more about them than theresa may. "Brexit means Brexit" Who said that again? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Sorry didn't realise I was in the middle if a legal case here and every word I said was being used as gospel. I summarised roughly what the incident was about and linked to a page that was conclusive about what was said (contained a link to Salmond on the radio) and took apart what he said in detail. Instead of providing evidence To refute what that site said, you have gone for the simple option of saying what I said didn't match what the blog said. Forget about the accuracy of my comments, I am typing them on a mobile so they will always be brief. Of course I will always summarise, I'm not going to plagiarise the content of another blog and reproduce on here. I link to the location where you can read the full details yourself. Salmond was asked why our current "deficit" (yes, I know you don't believe we have a deficit yet...) is ?15bn). We are not paying for Westminster refurb yet so how does that answer the question? HS2 is a very small payment and included in the blog. Trident on an annual basis is hardly anything (remember I am on a mobile, check the blog for actual amounts and evidence!!). Salmond uses the ?30bn over 30+ years to try and make ?15bn a year look trivial. Out of the UK, we would save ?1bn a year max and that's being generous. I have no problem with people asking for evidence to back something up but I want answers to the blog from nationalists, not answers to my hastily written comment on here. You might as well be picking me up on typos rather than answer the main point and what I linked to. Still think it would cost only ?200m to implement all the IT systems that an indy Scotland would need? Farming and police IT mess ups would suggest not. (No evidence provided for this assertion at this point due to using mobile again - google a handy tool though so I'll find some if you require) You are not in a legal case. Had there been one the verdict would already be Not Guilty as far as Salmond being a liar goes. Your words are not being used as gospel quite the contrary, i am taking you at your word and asking you to justify your comments but clearly you cannot. Stating that you have been brief because you are using your phone is not convincing. You put enough time and effort into insults and ridiculous supposition so why not make your point succinctly? You now say "forget about the accuracy of my comments" but that was what i was challenging, not somebody else's comments. You were succinct you called Salmond a liar and i challenged you on the basis of the evidence you provided. As I stated in a previous post, Salmond did not answer the question he was asked. He deflected. He talked about the inaccuracy and limitations of GERS and gave examples of how some UK costs will be apportioned to Scotland. He did not say that the annual deficit was ?30billion better than Gers suggests. He used that figure as Scotland's contribution to the UK cost of these projects e.g. Trident, HSR2, HoP, nuclear power and i believe the estimate to be credible. Had you listened to your own source carefully enough you would have known that Salmond did not lie, which is why i asked you to be specific in your claim that Salmond had lied. I see you got there in the end though with your statement "How does that answer the question?" Obviously it doesn't but not answering the question is not the same as lying. You are right his aim was most likely to make ?30billion over a long period of time sound more important than ?15billion in a year. Alex Salmond is a politician and he is not the first politician to do this. IMO this is why evidence is important. I have no idea how much IT costs will be but I do know that many if not all major implementations in UK have been shambolic e.g. NHS, Border Control, Universal Credit, Farm Subsidy Payments and costly. I don't remember commenting on this previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk If so, I suggest that you start practicing the language of your new "masters" - the ones that will replace your "English Oppressors". This is a good application- https://www.duolingo.com/courses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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