Brexit?

[Space Mackerel]

I asked what your feelings would be if in similar circumstances the unionists were saying about independence pretty much exactly what your saying about a brexit....it's not that difficult mate[emoji1]

I'd tell you what you'd say....**** off Yes won that's what you'd say...

Amirite???[emoji1]

I would be pretty pissed of with Alex and Nic if they turned round a few hours after the election victory and said all their promises were a made up load of bollocks.

 

You know where I'm going with this mate? Amirite? [emoji2]

 

 

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[jack D and coke]

I would be pretty pissed of with Alex and Nic if they turned round a few after the election victory and said all their promises were a made up load of bollocks.

 

You know where I'm going with this mate? Amirite? [emoji2]

 

 

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I think it's fairly well accepted the white paper was a load of old pish and has been rubbished.

The SNP still bang on about indy when the situation has probably worsened too...

You go on about a brexit being so terrible yet are quite content to make your average Scot poorer and yet you can't see the irony in any of your arguments. That's my point...and I'm out now[emoji1]

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

I think it's fairly well accepted the white paper was a load of old pish and has been rubbished.

The SNP still bang on about indy when the situation has probably worsened too...

You go on about a brexit being so terrible yet are quite content to make your average Scot poorer and yet you can't see the irony in any of your arguments. That's my point...and I'm out now[emoji1]

 

 

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?350 million extra for the NHS, even when health spending is devolved North of the border. Australian points system. IS terrorists knocking on your door. Making pots of jam to flog to the Frenchies.

 

They seen you coming and your likes.

 

 

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[jack D and coke]

?350 million extra for the NHS, even when health spending is devolved North of the border. Australian points system. IS terrorists knocking on your door. Making pots of jam to flog to the Frenchies.

 

They seen you coming and your likes.

 

 

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I don't give a monkeys about ?350m for the NHS I've never used that argument anywhere not even once[emoji1] as for your other points I've no idea what you're on about. I don't even care who the government is if I'm being really honest it generally makes very little odds to me.

[Space Mackerel]

I don't give a monkeys about ?350m for the NHS I've never used that argument anywhere not even once[emoji1] as for your other points I've no idea what you're on about. I don't even care who the government is if I'm being really honest it generally makes very little odds to me.

Dunno pal, Theresa May will be having you picking tatties in a field for Living Wage if you're not careful now. Better than driving a taxi ken. [emoji2]

 

 

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[jack D and coke]

Dunno pal, Theresa May will be having you picking tatties in a field for Living Wage if you're not careful now. Better than driving a taxi ken. [emoji2]

 

 

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I said I'm oot and I'm oot there's just no talking to you on these matters laddie [emoji1]

[jake]

350 million pound question?

 

Its still being paid dummy.

 

And once we brexit the money not spent on that will be up to the democratically elected government at a more accountable level to decide how thats spent.

 

Once again makeral how many times.

[Space Mackerel]

I said I'm oot and I'm oot there's just no talking to you on these matters laddie [emoji1]

I'll wait till you let us know if you're pro Indy or not.

Then if you're pro Brexit it or not when Maggie May pulls the the big hammer next year?

 

Suppose I'll know if that Saltire head cover on the driver is missing or not next spring medal [emoji2]

 

 

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[jack D and coke]

I'll wait till you let us know if you're pro Indy or not.

Then if you're pro Brexit it or not when Maggie May pulls the the big hammer next year?

 

Suppose I'll know if that Saltire head cover on the driver is missing or not next spring medal [emoji2]

 

 

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I voted Yes and Leave, you know that. I'm enough of an adult to get on with it regardless of how the votes went without whining constantly or trying to make out one would be fine but the other is a utter disaster.

I'm ooooooot[emoji1]

[Space Mackerel]

I voted Yes and Leave, you know that. I'm enough of an adult to get on with it regardless of how the votes went without whining constantly or trying to make out one would be fine but the other is a utter disaster.

I'm ooooooot[emoji1]

Saltire head cover next year then, good to hear [emoji106]

 

 

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[jake]

Dunno pal, Theresa May will be having you picking tatties in a field for Living Wage if you're not careful now. Better than driving a taxi ken. [emoji2]

 

 

 

 

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What are you slavering about.

 

The living wage pickin tatties would be a wage rise.

Bit hey its EU migrants that wait for the bus at the top of easter road to do that.

 

Whey hay the EU.

 

If people are naive enough to believe this organisation is a good thing for peoples rights over the needs of capitalist ideals are barking.

 

 

Freedom of movement has benefited strong economies in need of cheaper labour.

 

Do you honestly think anything else.

 

 

Loving brexit .

Well done little england

[Space Mackerel]

What are you slavering about.

 

The living wage pickin tatties would be a wage rise.

Bit hey its EU migrants that wait for the bus at the top of easter road to do that.

 

Whey hay the EU.

 

If people are naive enough to believe this organisation is a good thing for peoples rights over the needs of capitalist ideals are barking.

 

 

Freedom of movement has benefited strong economies in need of cheaper labour.

 

Do you honestly think anything else.

 

 

Loving brexit .

Well done little england

Good luck finding 17-21 year old Brits picking tatties and berries in fields for 14 hours a day.

Have you made any pots of jam or marmalade to sell to the Frenchies yet jake?

 

 

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[jake]

Good luck finding 17-21 year old Brits picking tatties and berries in fields for 14 hours a day.

Have you made any pots of jam or marmalade to sell to the Frenchies yet jake?

 

 

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Your reply rests my case.

 

 

You are a hypocrite.

 

Lets be thankful for cheap labour.

 

The real case for freedom of movement.

Because if real skill is required top rates are paid and red tape is overcome.

 

 

Oh what about cheap drink on holidays.

[Space Mackerel]

Your reply rests my case.

 

 

You are a hypocrite.

 

Lets be thankful for cheap labour.

 

The real case for freedom of movement.

Because if real skill is required top rates are paid and red tape is overcome.

 

 

Oh what about cheap drink on holidays.

Do you employ people jake? I have for over 20 years.

 

 

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[jake]

Do you employ people jake? I have for over 20 years.

 

 

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No.

If i did i would like to think i wouldnt see them as unit costs.

Id like to think i wouldnt want a political system that was geared to exploiting people.

 

But i wont ever know.

Cause im the guy that digs holes that picks tatties that does the stuff for cheap.

Im the guy that for accident of birth and the land i was born would be trying to get here to work for a pittance.

Meanwhile middle class holidaymakers with degrees would be moaning about freedom of movement.

And wee w anks like you would be kiddin oan they are business men

 

Ffs ye posted a pair ay troosers last week.

 

The EU keeps the rich richer and the poor in their place.

 

 

I will always be against it.

 

And any nationalist should be ashamed to be for it.

[Space Mackerel]

No.

If i did i would like to think i wouldnt see them as unit costs.

Id like to think i wouldnt want a political system that was geared to exploiting people.

 

But i wont ever know.

Cause im the guy that digs holes that picks tatties that does the stuff for cheap.

Im the guy that for accident of birth and the land i was born would be trying to get here to work for a pittance.

Meanwhile middle class holidaymakers with degrees would be moaning about freedom of movement.

And wee w anks like you would be kiddin oan they are business men

 

Ffs ye posted a pair ay troosers last week.

 

The EU keeps the rich richer and the poor in their place.

 

 

I will always be against it.

 

And any nationalist should be ashamed to be for it.

Whaaaaaat?

 

You can get dirty too and still run a business.

 

What age are you?

 

 

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[jake]

Whaaaaaat?

 

You can get dirty too and still run a business.

 

What age are you?

 

 

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Auld enough to know you couldnae run a bath

[Space Mackerel]

Auld enough to know you couldnae run a bath

I've got a whirlpool system fitted in mine from Victor Paris [emoji23]

 

 

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[jake]

Brexit in the media has been in recent weeks blamed for all.

For years its been widely accepted the pound was over valued.

Its still stronger than the the euro.

 

Ive heard from degree holders that my opinion is not as highly held.

From well travelled people

From those that value their self identity.

 

I didnt vote brexit on any of the race issues or immigrant.

The EU is a undemocratic and potentially dangerous body.

It supercedes locality.

It suits stronger

economys.

It allows one country to immigrate unilaterally refugees who then gaun citezenship which allows them same rights.

It allows the same country to dictate economic policy to countries who have different needs and different elements which require different economic levers.

 

Yet the guardian left bemoan lack of cheap labour.

People moan about nursing staff while ignoring that health staff are required in poor countries in a more needy state.

 

 

Me me me just like walter makeral mitty and his trouserwashing business.

 

Me me me.

 

Who am i what do i know .

No degree just a shovel with a hole to dig

[Pans Jambo]

Brexit in the media has been in recent weeks blamed for all.

For years its been widely accepted the pound was over valued.

Its still stronger than the the euro.

Ive heard from degree holders that my opinion is not as highly held.

From well travelled people

From those that value their self identity.

 

I didnt vote brexit on any of the race issues or immigrant.

The EU is a undemocratic and potentially dangerous body.

It supercedes locality.

It suits stronger

economys.

It allows one country to immigrate unilaterally refugees who then gaun citezenship which allows them same rights.

It allows the same country to dictate economic policy to countries who have different needs and different elements which require different economic levers.

 

Yet the guardian left bemoan lack of cheap labour.

People moan about nursing staff while ignoring that health staff are required in poor countries in a more needy state.

 

 

Me me me just like walter makeral mitty and his trouserwashing business.

 

Me me me.

 

Who am i what do i know .

No degree just a shovel with a hole to dig

The pound is at a 168 year low againt the USD & is in freefall against the Euro (around a 20% loss so far & counting).

Doesnt sound 'overvalued' to me.

& we are not even out of the EU yet!!!

When folks have to pay more for food, fuel, clothes & holidays abroad they wont be thinking that the pound was overvalued anyway!

 

Edit: I've just got a shower over the bath!

[JamboX2]

Why can't you accept it? What is about people nowadays? Leave won. Get over it ffs.

Give me time Jack. Time is the healer mate!

[Sraman]

Any who have seats in the Scottish Parliament at that time.

 

 

As we have seen on numerous occasions Ruth and Kezia do what they are told by their reptilian masters and I'm sure the Liberal Democrat leader, whomever that may be, does likewise. If these parties want a seat at the table, post yes, they will have to sever all ties with their parent parties and start afresh. I would suggest that we won't, as a country, have time to wait for them to do this.

[jake]

The pound is at a 168 year low againt the USD & is in freefall against the Euro (around a 20% loss so far & counting).

Doesnt sound 'overvalued' to me.

& we are not even out of the EU yet!!!

When folks have to pay more for food, fuel, clothes & holidays abroad they wont be thinking that the pound was overvalued anyway!

 

Edit: I've just got a shower over the bath!

 

Its a common concensus amongst capitalist types that the pound has been over valued.

Propped up by succesive governments to suit our mortgage economics specifically for the south of england.

 

I couldnt care less i see the eu for what it is.

[JamboX2]

As we have seen on numerous occasions Ruth and Kezia do what they are told by their reptilian masters and I'm sure the Liberal Democrat leader, whomever that may be, does likewise. If these parties want a seat at the table, post yes, they will have to sever all ties with their parent parties and start afresh. I would suggest that we won't, as a country, have time to wait for them to do this.

Moving off the David Icke crap, do you not think should yes win a future referendum the effect would be the disintegration of the political parties that are pan-UK in Scotland.

 

Both would be sister parties, like Labour is with the French Socialist party or the Danish Social Democrats, but operationally and politically independent.

 

Equally, the electorate are their first duty. Should the electorate in a majority vote yes their job is to represent those wishes and enact them.

 

Equally they're Scottish politicians and so on independence being chosen have a duty to that nation.

 

Your view suggests they're part of some form of anti-Scottish front woth no roght to be involved. Quote the opposite actually. Your line of logic would bar Angus MacNeil chairing the new International Trade Committee.

[JamboX2]

The trouble with your argument is that Salmond does not actually say what you claim he says. Interestingly the blog you link to does not agree with the point you make either. That is why I asked you to state clearly what you think Salmond is lying about. I would suggest that Scotland's contribution to Trident, HS2 and the Westminster refurbishment would not be too far away from ?30billion as Salmond suggested. Chokka blog suggests a good bit less but I keep thinking Trams and expect significant cost increases. You could quite easily argue that Salmond avoided the question and answered another one but I am not convinced he told a direct lie unless of course you have evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm sorry you don't like my requests for evidence but I have had people claim that despite evidence to the contrary from Audit Scotland that Scotland's block grant has been increasing, they think the proportion of electricity generated by renewables in Scotland is around 20% yet the organisation responsible for it Scottish renewables says it's nearly 60%. We have people claiming Salmond lied about legal advice despite an enquiry finding in his favour and others claiming Salmond invented figures for oil reserves despite industry figures quoting the excact same figures. We have others suggesting Scottish Schools had National testing and League Tables but cant find the evidence. Recent discussions around the collapsing Scottish economy are also difficult to substantiate because despite the oil price collapse the Scottish economy has grown.

 

I have provided evidence to support all of my assertions but others don't think they need to do the same. I think there is a problem for people who live in a cult, they seem to think that everybody believes the same as they do and cannot really take part in evidence based discussions when their beliefs are challenged, hence the all so frequent tirade of insults those so interested in defending British values..

So your post applies to No voters only?

 

I've seen equally unsubstantiated claims by Yes voters.

[Space Mackerel]

Its a common concensus amongst capitalist types that the pound has been over valued.

Propped up by succesive governments to suit our mortgage economics specifically for the south of england.

 

I couldnt care less i see the eu for what it is.

Bless, jake still thinks the government controls economic and foreign policy.

 

That was given up 30-40 years ago.

 

 

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[jake]

Bless, jake still thinks the government controls economic and foreign policy.

 

That was given up 30-40 years ago.

 

 

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No point voting indy then eh ?

[Space Mackerel]

No point voting indy then eh ?

Might be be better being a member of the "big club" under our terms?

 

 

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[jake]

Might be be better being a member of the "big club" under our terms?

 

 

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Is there any point voting for independence?

[jake]

Makeral you have asserted that no government has control of foreign policy or economic policy and its only in the big club under our own terms which isnt possible as its EU terms only.

 

So why vote indy.

 

What difference does it make.

[Space Mackerel]

Is there any point voting for independence?

Well 5 million people can take decisions on their cultural, natural resources etc to make their society a bit better. We might even rid food banks and damp housing, a fairer tax system, get less involved in foreign wars. What's not to like?

 

 

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[jake]

Well 5 million people can take decisions on their cultural, natural resources etc to make their society a bit better. We might even rid food banks and damp housing, a fairer tax system, get less involved in foreign wars. What's not to like?

 

 

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You said government cant affect foreign policy of economic policy.

 

The rest you mention is in the remit of your heroes the snp.

Failed to deliver.

[Sraman]

Moving off the David Icke crap, do you not think should yes win a future referendum the effect would be the disintegration of the political parties that are pan-UK in Scotland.

 

Both would be sister parties, like Labour is with the French Socialist party or the Danish Social Democrats, but operationally and politically independent.

 

Equally, the electorate are their first duty. Should the electorate in a majority vote yes their job is to represent those wishes and enact them.

 

Equally they're Scottish politicians and so on independence being chosen have a duty to that nation.

 

Your view suggests they're part of some form of anti-Scottish front woth no roght to be involved. Quote the opposite actually. Your line of logic would bar Angus MacNeil chairing the new International Trade Committee.

 

It was a reference to an Edinburgh band, they're not as crap as David Icke though, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Anyway, yes I do think that, which is exactly my point. If Scotland votes yes then we won't have time to hang about waiting on these new parties to be formed. As seen with Brexit, as soon as the results are in the effects begin.

 

It's not my view, it's a fact that the parties I mentioned in my post are run from Westminster and as such should and would have nothing to do with an independent Scotland. 

 

Nothing wrong with my logic, you however have managed to go from party to individual then claim that my logic would exclude an elected UK politician from a post in UK government committee.

[jake]

Anyway im off to bed.

Holes to dig

Tatties to pick.

 

Unlike makeral the employer.

 

Hahaha

[Space Mackerel]

You said government cant affect foreign policy of economic policy.

 

The rest you mention is in the remit of your heroes the snp.

Failed to deliver.

The deep state controls what goes on, not what you vote for.

They just make you think you have a choice. The US elections and all the bollocks are a prime example.

 

 

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[jake]

The deep state controls what goes on, not what you vote for.

They just make you think you have a choice. The US elections and all the bollocks are a prime example.

 

 

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Why vote for indy then?

 

Surely you should be a socialist in the international sense?

[Space Mackerel]

Why vote for indy then?

 

Surely you should be a socialist in the international sense?

It's argued that socialism is a world inevitability.

 

 

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[coconut doug]

So your post applies to No voters only?

 

I've seen equally unsubstantiated claims by Yes voters.

 I think I have used a lot of evidence from various sources to refute your unsubstantiated claims. You were a Yes voter were you not?

 

When people make daft or mistaken points in their posts I sometimes challenge them and ask for evidence to support their views. Often they disappear, sometimes they launch into insults and others  try to change the argument. I think evidence is essential in debate, your opinions should be evidence based and not anecdotal like so many NO voters on here. Don't make me go back through the threads to prove it though.  

[aussieh]

Fact is they are paid the UK set legal minimum wage, overtime payments, holiday entitlement, pension, work & time directive etc. Hardly exploitation.

Edit: Also, some of the EU nationals have been here that long they are now in management positions.

They pay agencies this money, not the workers. Fecking agencies bus them in from Poland etc... themselves to exploit them, ffs.

[aussieh]

Eh?? Right I'm out.

fwiw jack, they're not the same type of union.

One England runs and one it doesn't.

 

Sovereignty and democracy they say, they should try ours.

[jack D and coke]

fwiw jack, they're not the same type of union.

One England runs and one it doesn't.

 

Sovereignty and democracy they say, they should try ours.

I know they're not pal. My point being SM talks of one spelling disaster and the other seemingly leading to unmitigated prosperity.

They both carry an element of risk is all I was trying to say.

 

 

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[Hasselhoff]

The trouble with your argument is that Salmond does not actually say what you claim he says. Interestingly the blog you link to does not agree with the point you make either. That is why I asked you to state clearly what you think Salmond is lying about. I would suggest that Scotland's contribution to Trident, HS2 and the Westminster refurbishment would not be too far away from ?30billion as Salmond suggested. Chokka blog suggests a good bit less but I keep thinking Trams and expect significant cost increases. You could quite easily argue that Salmond avoided the question and answered another one but I am not convinced he told a direct lie unless of course you have evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm sorry you don't like my requests for evidence but I have had people claim that despite evidence to the contrary from Audit Scotland that Scotland's block grant has been increasing, they think the proportion of electricity generated by renewables in Scotland is around 20% yet the organisation responsible for it Scottish renewables says it's nearly 60%. We have people claiming Salmond lied about legal advice despite an enquiry finding in his favour and others claiming Salmond invented figures for oil reserves despite industry figures quoting the excact same figures. We have others suggesting Scottish Schools had National testing and League Tables but cant find the evidence. Recent discussions around the collapsing Scottish economy are also difficult to substantiate because despite the oil price collapse the Scottish economy has grown.

 

I have provided evidence to support all of my assertions but others don't think they need to do the same. I think there is a problem for people who live in a cult, they seem to think that everybody believes the same as they do and cannot really take part in evidence based discussions when their beliefs are challenged, hence the all so frequent tirade of insults those so interested in defending British values..

Sorry didn't realise I was in the middle if a legal case here and every word I said was being used as gospel. I summarised roughly what the incident was about and linked to a page that was conclusive about what was said (contained a link to Salmond on the radio) and took apart what he said in detail. Instead of providing evidence To refute what that site said, you have gone for the simple option of saying what I said didn't match what the blog said. Forget about the accuracy of my comments, I am typing them on a mobile so they will always be brief. Of course I will always summarise, I'm not going to plagiarise the content of another blog and reproduce on here. I link to the location where you can read the full details yourself.

 

Salmond was asked why our current "deficit" (yes, I know you don't believe we have a deficit yet...) is ?15bn). We are not paying for Westminster refurb yet so how does that answer the question? HS2 is a very small payment and included in the blog. Trident on an annual basis is hardly anything (remember I am on a mobile, check the blog for actual amounts and evidence!!). Salmond uses the ?30bn over 30+ years to try and make ?15bn a year look trivial. Out of the UK, we would save ?1bn a year max and that's being generous.

 

I have no problem with people asking for evidence to back something up but I want answers to the blog from nationalists, not answers to my hastily written comment on here. You might as well be picking me up on typos rather than answer the main point and what I linked to.

 

Still think it would cost only ?200m to implement all the IT systems that an indy Scotland would need? Farming and police IT mess ups would suggest not. (No evidence provided for this assertion at this point due to using mobile again - google a handy tool though so I'll find some if you require)

[aussieh]

I know they're not pal. My point being SM talks of one spelling disaster and the other seemingly leading to unmitigated prosperity.

They both carry an element of risk is all I was trying to say.

 

 

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CETA blocked by Belgium

[jack D and coke]

CETA blocked by Belgium

Excuse my ignorance here I know basically it's a trade deal but what does that mean?

 

 

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[aussieh]

Excuse my ignorance here I know basically it's a trade deal but what does that mean?

 

 

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Belgium have blocked the Canada/EU trades deal because of fear their farmers will be out priced/stiffed.

 

Oh, it means no easy dealings with The EU.

[jack D and coke]

Belgium have blocked the Canada/EU trades deal because of fear their farmers will be out priced/stiffed.

 

Oh, it means no easy dealings with The EU.

For the UK you mean? After article 50 is invoked aye?

 

 

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[Boris]

 

Still think it would cost only ?200m to implement all the IT systems that an indy Scotland would need? Farming and police IT mess ups would suggest not. (No evidence provided for this assertion at this point due to using mobile again - google a handy tool though so I'll find some if you require)

 

I'm not an IT techy, but surely these systems already exist and would just need tweeked to service Scotland, rather than Scotland as part of the UK?

[Cade]

Once again, various high power leaders of EU nations have stated that the UK will not get an easy ride when negotiating Article 50.

And once more they have stated that free movement of capital and goods is proviso on free movement of people.

 

We're getting pumped dry if the Brexiteers go for hard brexit with closed borders.

[jack D and coke]

I'm not an IT techy, but surely these systems already exist and would just need tweeked to service Scotland, rather than Scotland as part of the UK?

Hmm it's risky move though...It'll probably cost about a trillion pounds and affect 37 million Scottish jobs! Scotland can't do anything without England wiping our hoops don't you know that?[emoji1]

 

 

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[jack D and coke]

Once again, various high power leaders of EU nations have stated that the UK will not get an easy ride when negotiating Article 50.

And once more they have stated that free movement of capital and goods is proviso on free movement of people.

 

We're getting pumped dry if the Brexiteers go for hard brexit with closed borders.

World will probably end mate.

 

 

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