Nielson must go!

[Debut 4]

So, if we had finished 6th but won the last five games all would be well?

We can make up all sorts of scenarios if we want.

 

The bottom line is , people are seeing beyond the stats, stats glorious stats and coming out the comfort blanket of recent promotion and the "first season back" cushion, to see that there may be problems ahead.

 

I've been talking to friends about the game and Hearts in general, some made the point about our strongest 11 being good when we can play them. But I just feel despite that there's just something not right about our aura, that gut feeling you get as a supporter whether you think there's something ready to blossom or worryingly stagnate.

 

I could be totally wrong, fan intuition can be from time to time, but at the moment there's just far too much divide regarding the manager and that says something to me. Maybe not to some.

[Jambopara]

I missed my tee off at Myrtle Beach SC after watching that crap. He definitely shows too much respect to the supposed big teams. Time for a change methinks too.

i like myrtle beach, like the Carolinas too, went to North Carolina a lot when I was in 2 Para, Fort Bragg, home of the yank airborne

[And he's not praying]

We played well at parkhead a few weeks ago with the same set up as the first half today.

 

If he had started 4-4-2 there would have been shouts asking why he changed from the system that gave us some joy in Glasgow.

 

They aren't a great side but they were playing today to clinch a title. We weren't a million miles away from them and just like a few weeks ago, on another day we might have got something.

 

For a coach with the reported 7th highest budget in Scotland he's doing pretty well*.

 

Looking forward to the Summer signings arriving and to the start of next season.

 

* Hibs tie aside and that's (IMO) the cause of a lot of the angst that currently exists. Which I completely understand.

[davemclaren]

We can make up all sorts of scenarios if we want.

 

The bottom line is , people are seeing beyond the stats, stats glorious stats and coming out the comfort blanket of recent promotion and the "first season back" cushion, to see that there may be problems ahead.

 

I've been talking to friends about the game and Hearts in general, some made the point about our strongest 11 being good when we can play them. But I just feel despite that there's just something not right about our aura, that gut feeling you get as a supporter whether you think there's something ready to blossom or worryingly stagnate.

 

I could be totally wrong, fan intuition can be from time to time, but at the moment there's just far too much divide regarding the manager and that says something to me. Maybe not to some.

 

 

To be fair I didn't make up the 'only the last 5 games are important' scenario to try and prove a point.  We'll find out next season whether it's improve, stay the same or decline.

[heartandsoul]

We are boring to watch. And yes the season ended against that crap at fester road.

[norrie1952]

Weve beat them loads of times, aye since when.

Sorry mate perhaps you thought I meant we beat them on a regular basis.No that's never been the case.But I've been lucky enough to see us do them in their own back yard in the days when they were a real force in football

[Craigieboy]

As much as I'm not into Neilson being our manager, I'm resigned to giving him next season to see how he gets on. No choice really, as he's just been handed a new deal.

 

But I'm gravely concerned about Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen & potentially hibs games.

 

We could loose a rack of points as I genuinely think he doesn't know how to handle these games.

[Seymour M Hersh]

He's a fecking coward. Wee Doddie's Hearts team wouldn't roll over and let Celtic win the league on our turf. Embarrassing

 

They didn't win it.

[davemclaren]

They didn't win it.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

We can make up all sorts of scenarios if we want.

 

The bottom line is , people are seeing beyond the stats, stats glorious stats and coming out the comfort blanket of recent promotion and the "first season back" cushion, to see that there may be problems ahead.

 

I've been talking to friends about the game and Hearts in general, some made the point about our strongest 11 being good when we can play them. But I just feel despite that there's just something not right about our aura, that gut feeling you get as a supporter whether you think there's something ready to blossom or worryingly stagnate.

 

I could be totally wrong, fan intuition can be from time to time, but at the moment there's just far too much divide regarding the manager and that says something to me. Maybe not to some.

That's it in a nutshell for me.

 

Lots and lots of people are saying Neilson deserves a lot more time because of the steady progress the whole club has been making. But the stadium, transfer business, wage bill, youth development - he's not the ultimate responsibility for any of that. All of that could still flourish with him not here. He's responsible for first team results and performances and there are clearly huge question marks there in the eyes of a big (and getting bigger) chunk of the support.

[Bowmans_Boot]

The don't like Robbie so nothing else matters. Even if we'd won today this place would be full of "but we lost to hibs though" and "one win in ....isn't good enough."

 

There is most probably a great deal of truth in that. For me, I lost a lot of confidence and goodwill in Robbie over those two games. It is not that I dont like him, I do, it is not that I dont want him to succeed, I do, but I admit that give him far less leeway now than I would have done had we beaten them.

[Joe Hearts]

So Liam Smith goes from one of the few getting plaudits for last week to not even making the bench this week! That'll do his confidence the world of good.

[RudiHMFC]

It's not his fault Celtic turn into the side they were in 2003 when they play us.

[Joe Hearts]

Gary Locke looked as disgusted as the rest of us as he trudged out after the game.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

The thought of the above (which I agree with btw) would cause palpitations amongst some on JKB who think there is not one single thing wrong in the way we set up to play.

 

Even Levein and Neilson would acknowledge things could be improved.

Most accept things could be better, most accept we don't have world class coaches at the club as if we did they wouldn't be here.

[jamboman9]

Meoooow! Wail! Howl! Hiss! :/

[RudiHMFC]

Why are folk so quick to blame Neilson rather than the players? The team obviously weren't playing the way he expected them to, hence two subs at half time.

He made the right changes. Our defence cost us the game, not our manager.

Because what ever way you look at it, it comes down to the manager and that's how it always has been and will be.

 

The players are shite? He signed them

They can't be arsed? He can't motivate them or they're not buying into him as a person or a manager.

 

Does anyone think we could get more out of this squad than what we're seeing? I certainly do.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Gary Locke looked as disgusted as the rest of us as he trudged out after the game.

well now he knows what we all felt on a weekly basis when we watched his shambolic management relegate us. Thank goodness he has nothing to do with managing us any longer.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Because what ever way you look at it, it comes down to the manager and that's how it always has been and will be.

 

The players are shite? He signed them

They can't be arsed? He can't motivate them or they're not buying into him as a person or a manager.

 

Does anyone think we could get more out of this squad than what we're seeing? I certainly do.

No doubt at all. But we seem to be giving him years to learn on the job for some reason. And Rangers coming up has given him even more buffer room so now 4th next season can and will still fall under the catch-all of "steady progress".

[Sneckiejambo]

I left home this morning at 8.30 and paid ?42 for my train ticket, train is due in Haymarket at 11.11, we got to Gleneagles at 10.00 and it came across is there a doctor on board, at 12.00 we moved again and got to Edinburgh at half time. There was a train home at 13.40 or go to second half and train at 16.45, I got on 13.40 and heard the person had died. It was a long day but some poor person got on that train today and won't be going home. There's more to life than football guys. HHGH

[RudiHMFC]

I'm not enthusiastic about next season whatsoever, i dread to think what will happen in the transfer window, can see a few of our better players leaving and we'll likely be stuck with the duds we gave lengthy contracts, if we continue this 'styie' of play it won't matter who we bring in, it will be the same old boring shite and a 4th or 5th place finish with no cup runs to speak of. Turgid.

[Gabriel]

He must find a discernible style of football. No mater the permutation, or structure, we seem to rely on centre halves bypassing the midfield and hammering it aimlessly long. Couple that with full backs who cross from twenty-five yards out and forwards that are generally static, and it's little wonder we can appear so predictable. It's a team in transition, granted, but by next season he needs to have a way of playing football and persist with it.

[Generic Username]

No doubt at all. But we seem to be giving him years to learn on the job for some reason. And Rangers coming up has given him even more buffer room so now 4th next season can and will still fall under the catch-all of "steady progress".

It shouldn't, and I imagine won't be the case regarding forth being acceptable. We now have a full season of top flight results and performances to use as a bench going forward along with previous results and performances against Hibs and Rangers in the championship.

 

If we get to the end of the second round of fixtures next season and there's not a marked improvement, he'll rightly have questions asked of him by a much larger section of the support and the board. I don't think for a second we're happy as a club just to finish anywhere in the league now we're in the top flight.

 

Progress should be made however you have to have something to compare it to, despite some on here point blank refusing to do so. The mentality at times on here is as simple as "we played well last week so should be playing well every week" and it's just not as simple as that.

 

Personally hoping for things on the park to mirror the patter off it next season now. We've had a season to find our feet in the top flight again. Time to crack on and if we can't do that, well...who knows.

[portobellojambo1]

We played well at parkhead a few weeks ago with the same set up as the first half today.

 

If he had started 4-4-2 there would have been shouts asking why he changed from the system that gave us some joy in Glasgow.

 

They aren't a great side but they were playing today to clinch a title. We weren't a million miles away from them and just like a few weeks ago, on another day we might have got something.

 

For a coach with the reported 7th highest budget in Scotland he's doing pretty well*.

 

Looking forward to the Summer signings arriving and to the start of next season.

 

* Hibs tie aside and that's (IMO) the cause of a lot of the angst that currently exists. Which I completely understand.

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I'm a little bit confused by the comments about the fixture in Glasgow versus Celtic where you seem to think we done well but failed to match that today. Just for information, the following were the scores in those two matches:

 

Parkhead - Celtic 3 Heart of Midlothian 1

Today - Heart of Midlothian 1 Celtic 3

 

The above would suggest that whether we played the formation correctly or incorrectly today the outcome was absolutely identical. Why did we lose in Glasgow, because rather than push on and look to win the game after Jamie Walker opened the scoring we became more defensive and lost it. Today we were set up totally wrongly in the first half, on another thread someone referred to it as an utter shambles and I agree with them. The first 15 minutes of the second half today we decided to attack them, presumably an instruction given during the half time interval, and it was successful. For that first 15 minutes we had Celtic looking like what they have been all this season, probably the poorest Celtic side in living memory, and they were struggling. We scored during that period, and logic just has to make you think we will keep that up and go on and punish them, because as part of this learning process it is reasonable to assume that from the performance at Parkhead the daftest thing we could do was allow them to take control of the game because by doing so at Parkhead it cost us the game. We equalised today, should have pushed on, instead allowed them to take control again and lost, by the same score. I always thought the idea of a learning process was to learn from previous mistakes and not repeat them, but it appears not.

[Mr Rabbit]

I've only been coming on here for the last 5 years but when did we all of a sudden believe we were capable of winning the league? We've challenged realistically once possibly twice in 30 years. I'm not saying that shouldn't be the target but people saying we should be winning, challenging or close to challenging with the players we've got is a bellend of the highest order.

 

Today yet again showed that the players are still a long way behind a very poor Celtic team. Neilson/ levein are the ones who've brought in the majority of these and should be accountable for them. However every manager that I can remember has brought in his fair share of shite as well as a few gems. Why is Neilson any different?

 

We're at least 4/5 players away from being close to a challenge imo and if you look at the strike rate that will be highly optimistic for next season. Who can do better? Hartley, whose budget is the next highest after Celtic, Aberdeen and us but has still managed to secure a bottom 6 finish? Sergio who did **** all in the league other than one result in the cup and everyone thinks he's the second coming?

 

All I see on here is a bunch of pant wetters who are still obsessing about a result against hibs.

[And he's not praying]

Don't take this the wrong way but I'm a little bit confused by the comments about the fixture in Glasgow versus Celtic where you seem to think we done well but failed to match that today. Just for information, the following were the scores in those two matches:

 

Parkhead - Celtic 3 Heart of Midlothian 1

Today - Heart of Midlothian 1 Celtic 3

 

The above would suggest that whether we played the formation correctly or incorrectly today the outcome was absolutely identical. Why did we lose in Glasgow, because rather than push on and look to win the game after Jamie Walker opened the scoring we became more defensive and lost it. Today we were set up totally wrongly in the first half, on another thread someone referred to it as an utter shambles and I agree with them. The first 15 minutes of the second half today we decided to attack them, presumably an instruction given during the half time interval, and it was successful. For that first 15 minutes we had Celtic looking like what they have been all this season, probably the poorest Celtic side in living memory, and they were struggling. We scored during that period, and logic just has to make you think we will keep that up and go on and punish them, because as part of this learning process it is reasonable to assume that from the performance at Parkhead the daftest thing we could do was allow them to take control of the game because by doing so at Parkhead it cost us the game. We equalised today, should have pushed on, instead allowed them to take control again and lost, by the same score. I always thought the idea of a learning process was to learn from previous mistakes and not repeat them, but it appears not.

'Some joy' which in terms of bossing the midfield and creating chances we did get at Parkhead. Do you disagree?

 

'Played well' which we did first half at Parkhead. Do you disagree?

 

At no point did I suggest we played 'really well'.

 

I'm fully aware of the results in both games.

 

Thanks.

 

Ah. Nice edit.

[Bowmans_Boot]

I've only been coming on here for the last 5 years but when did we all of a sudden believe we were capable of winning the league? We've challenged realistically once possibly twice in 30 years. I'm not saying that shouldn't be the target but people saying we should be winning, challenging or close to challenging with the players we've got is a bellend of the highest order.

 

Today yet again showed that the players are still a long way behind a very poor Celtic team. Neilson/ levein are the ones who've brought in the majority of these and should be accountable for them. However every manager that I can remember has brought in his fair share of shite as well as a few gems. Why is Neilson any different?

 

We're at least 4/5 players away from being close to a challenge imo and if you look at the strike rate that will be highly optimistic for next season. Who can do better? Hartley, whose budget is the next highest after Celtic, Aberdeen and us but has still managed to secure a bottom 6 finish? Sergio who did **** all in the league other than one result in the cup and everyone thinks he's the second coming?

 

All I see on here is a bunch of pant wetters who are still obsessing about a result against hibs.

 

A few of the players publicly stated that we could win the league. I didn't agree with them, and I didn't agree with them saying that in interviews but they said it, nonetheless.

 

In terms of league position it is very difficult to criticise Robbie, in terms of results in the big games and performances it is somewhat easier, as we are woeful in these. 

 

It was two results against Hibs that I obsess about, by the way, not one. Two chances to beat a lower league team and two chances blown. Two more big games blown.

[Ari Gold]

I don't think he should be sacked. However i don't think he's perfect either.

 

We play at a slow pace when we have the ball. You may say that's down to the players but he signed them. Our 2 centre backs and goalkeeper pass the ball between each other 3 or 4 times then once they get pressed they launch it up the park.

 

We need another mobile midfield player to play with Djoum and Kitchen. I also think a left sided winger is needed. Team is a bit unbalanced when we play 4 central midfield players across the middle of the park.

 

Tynecastle is a small pitch, use that to our advantage. Press teams high. Let's not sit in and try to stay in the game for the first half. Pressing teams also gets the fans into the game which will give the team a lift.

[Gambo]

He must find a discernible style of football. No mater the permutation, or structure, we seem to rely on centre halves bypassing the midfield and hammering it aimlessly long. Couple that with full backs who cross from twenty-five yards out and forwards that are generally static, and it's little wonder we can appear so predictable. It's a team in transition, granted, but by next season he needs to have a way of playing football and persist with it.

 

We need to find a system that suits the players we have, rather than them fit into a system we want to play.

 

Levein set up/system may work, but right now it does not work well with the players at our disposal.

[Rudy T]

Where I think we are struggling is not so much from a managerial perspective but a lack of leadership on the pitch. What the likes of Scott Brown lack in talent they more than make up for in leadership.

 

No one in our squad looks like a leader, someone who can drive the team on.

 

They all have a job to do and they get on with their individual roles and if someone fails at their job there's a collective acceptance that it was someone else to blame so that's fine.

 

Look at the leaders we've had in the past and tell me they'd have accepted that shit today.

 

We need to find strong minded players who will bollock the life out of anyone hiding or not playing for the team.

[EreWeG0..]

* This thread is brought to you by (faulty) Durex.

 

[Sneckiejambo]

Hearts need guys like Draper of Caley and Irvine of Ross County not pretty boys but they are effective.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

* This thread is brought to you by (faulty) Durex.

 

 

 

So people that think the coach isn't up to it are not worthy of being alive?

 

Eh, okay then.

 

[EreWeG0..]

So people that think the coach isn't up to it are not worthy of being alive?

 

Eh, okay then.

 

3rd not good enough for you? What was your prediction at the start of the season 'Wonder Woman'

 

[jockmac]

He is not what I would call a leader of men, a motivator of players or fans. He leaves me feeling flat, win lose or draw.

It's a tough gig, but he just does not inspire.

His tactics and approach to games can be very negative and I do wonder if he can truly lift the team by motivation.

 

I do not see Robbie as the man to win us the top league or cups.

I know he will be here for a while yet, he divides opinion amongst Hearts fans, I just see more frustration to come.

 

Unrest amongst the support is what will move him on, unless he gets us playing a much more attacking style next season.

[EreWeG0..]

He is not what I would call a leader of men, a motivator of players or fans. He leaves me feeling flat, win lose or draw.

It's a tough gig, but he just does not inspire.

His tactics and approach to games can be very negative and I do wonder if he can truly lift the team by motivation.

 

I do not see Robbie as the man to win us the top league or cups.

I know he will be here for a while yet, he divides opinion amongst Hearts fans, I just see more frustration to come.

 

Unrest amongst the support is what will move him on, unless he gets us playing a much more attacking style next season.

Sensible post, this place is so bad after a defeat it's usually best to avoid for a few days....I actually agree with you, just don't think he warrants the fume after we've finished 3rd. So many people said they would be happy with top 6 on our return.

[Bazzas right boot]

I've only been coming on here for the last 5 years but when did we all of a sudden believe we were capable of winning the league? We've challenged realistically once possibly twice in 30 years. I'm not saying that shouldn't be the target but people saying we should be winning, challenging or close to challenging with the players we've got is a bellend of the highest order.

 

Today yet again showed that the players are still a long way behind a very poor Celtic team. Neilson/ levein are the ones who've brought in the majority of these and should be accountable for them. However every manager that I can remember has brought in his fair share of shite as well as a few gems. Why is Neilson any different?

 

We're at least 4/5 players away from being close to a challenge imo and if you look at the strike rate that will be highly optimistic for next season. Who can do better? Hartley, whose budget is the next highest after Celtic, Aberdeen and us but has still managed to secure a bottom 6 finish? Sergio who did **** all in the league other than one result in the cup and everyone thinks he's the second coming?

 

All I see on here is a bunch of pant wetters who are still obsessing about a result against hibs.

 

 

I agree.

 

However, We should be distancing ourselves from teams like Motherwell, Utd and ICT. I expect this in the next few years and if we can take on Aberdeen, 3rd on a consistent basis should be the minimum.

The league should always be the goal, but Hearts, can't even say they are constantly the 3rd or 4th best team  in the past ten years, never mind champions.

 

The Hibs result hurts, as it was a great chance to get to a final, and we blew it.

 

The difference is that this Hearts team is in the best position of any side in my life time to progress, people need to be patient, but expectations will rise , if our league performance mirrors the last ten years  then we are doing something wrong.

 

It's our first season up, next season will be a acid test,  I don't expect us to win the league but we should be distancing ourselves from the rest and aiming for Aberdeen and possibly Rangers, on current form Motherwell would have us.

[Zibi]

We are never going to win the league under Neilson's tenure. Will we get a Euro soot regularly? Good chance I'd say. Are we going to win a cup? Doubtful

[grumpyespana]

I cannie see what all the bluster is all about fact is mentally the players are on there holidays and they have been since we secured our european spot.

 

                            Grumpy.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Dundee Utd and St Johnstone apparently.

 

Rangers and Hibs in the Championship, also.

 

I would also guess that Dundee's budget was bigger than ours to start the season, although the Kitchen, Djoum, Sow, Souttar, and Dauda moves probably impacted that.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

No disrespect mate but if you're pleased with that it's evident you haven't been one of us for very long.

 

Who would you have accepted finishing behind this season? Seriously?

 

Seems like those who are unhappy come from a narrow age range -- those whose formative memories are in the roughly 96-06 range.  I started following around 07 or 08 (honestly gets fuzzy now).  Those who are older seem quite pleased with this season, compared to where we were in the early 80s.

 

Start of the season, from a budget and manager standpoint, finishing behind both Dundee teams and St. J's wouldn't have been an embarrassment.  United obviously imploded such that the loss at Tannadice was a travesty, but that's not for being on a small budget or having inexperienced managers (either one frankly).  For a manager in his second year with a budget at the very least not that different and possibly smaller than three clubs which finished below us, this is fantastic.

 

As to others comments that "you can't criticize Robbie," if the thread were titled "Poor initial formation from Neilson," I don't think you'd have too many arguments (other than those noting that it's the same formation that was largely effective at Parkhead).  But the thread title is "Nielson [sic] must go."  Which is f---ing daft.

[Badonde]

It would be interesting to know what the players think of Neilson.

He's come out and said that we were good for large periods of today's game and that we are improving as a team. I honestly think he loves himself that much that he believes the bullshit he spouts every week.

[Drewboy]

Deary ******* me! Crayon munchers out in force, heard a couple of the phoodle crew on my walk back to the car (past that bar formerly known as Luckies) ranting and raving! I'm pretty sure after the Parkhead game the same posters were saying how positive it was playing 3-5-2 and that's how RN should set up, today they get what they want and we get beat, same score, same schoolboy errors from the players, now back to Robbie out!

Think I'll give Kickback a miss for a while!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C67]

So Liam Smith goes from one of the few getting plaudits for last week to not even making the bench this week! That'll do his confidence the world of good.

yet McGhee who was poor on wedsnesday in youth cup is on bench don't see the sense in that

[SUTOL]

 if the thread were titled "Poor initial formation from Neilson," I don't think you'd have too many arguments (other than those noting that it's the same formation that was largely effective at Parkhead).  

 

I thought we started and mostly played a 3-5-2 at Parkhead, but today we started with a back 4 and 4/5 midfield with Juanma up top supported (?) by Walker or Djoum. 

[SUTOL]

yet McGhee who was poor on wedsnesday in youth cup is on bench don't see the sense in that

 

Smith wasn't exactly a stand out on Wednesday either, and McGhee has been on the bench (if not playing) most of not all season. 

[Carrick1874]

Deary ******* me! Crayon munchers out in force, heard a couple of the phoodle crew on my walk back to the car (past that bar formerly known as Luckies) ranting and raving!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You just made that up didn't you?

[jambopilms]

We won't win the league under Robbie but guess what we won't win the league under anyone while the league system is the same. WTF is wrong with kickback just now. How people want any manager out after being 3rd with the 3rd best squad. We are exactly where we should be. I think some people expect some kind of Leicester thing all of a sudden. And people were happier with a 3-1 loss at park head because of how we played than the nil- nil where we played crap. Kickback is stinking just now and I think it's the young team/ plane flyers again. Can they not get their own sticky thread thing and keep it in there.

[jambopilms]

.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I thought we started and mostly played a 3-5-2 at Parkhead, but today we started with a back 4 and 4/5 midfield with Juanma up top supported (?) by Walker or Djoum. 

 

Neither one looked like a rigid shape to me. I would have said both were a kind of back 4 with Oshaniwa stepping forward to leave a back 3 at times, and the defensive midfielders staying close to home to help out on defence.  I could be very wrong though -- sometimes hard to get the sense of shape on the video feed.