Bozi Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 That's how it works in the English Premiership or Bundesliga which are high profile and on the world stage - NOT the back water that is Scottish football.Aye we shouldn't even bother, forget it coz nobody cares about Scottish football Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Parmesan Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 That's how it works in the English Premiership or Bundesliga which are high profile and on the world stage - NOT the back water that is Scottish football. Edinburgh - European capital city, fifth largest financial centre in the continent, world heritage site. Not a back water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First48 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 That's how it works in the English Premiership or Bundesliga which are high profile and on the world stage - NOT the back water that is Scottish football. That wasn't what I was disagreeing about. The point was that multi national companies funding stadium builds was not how football stadiums work which is incorrect. If you are asking me whether business of the likes of Ethiad etc would build a stadium for a Scottish football club then absolutely not. Do I think an investment company might plan an out of town leisure facility built around a multi functional sports facility for a Scottish football club ( to be clear I'm not saying Hearts) yeah absolutely. Just an opinion. You might disagree which is what makes our country great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJamboR7 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ann Budge said that before she got involved in the business she had always assumed the way forward was a new location and new stadium. That was the view of a successful business person. It was only when the strength of sentiment became clear that she swung towards favouring redevelopment of Tynecastle. Heart ruling head? Or maybe Ann has had discussions with her contacts and got positive feedback saying that staying at Tynecastle is viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Edinburgh - European capital city, fifth largest financial centre in the continent, world heritage site. Not a back water. Did I say Edinburgh was a back water? In terms of world ,or even UK, prestige and coverage SCOTTISH FOOTBALL is certainly a back water regardless of where a Club plays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ann Budge said that before she got involved in the business she had always assumed the way forward was a new location and new stadium. That was the view of a successful business person. It was only when the strength of sentiment became clear that she swung towards favouring redevelopment of Tynecastle. Heart ruling head? As Ann Budge has more brain cells and business acumen than all of JKB put together, I will back her plan whatever she comes up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Yeah, all true. I don't think he was the only one put off though unfortunately. It's a shame they never got the fan revenue v other revenue balance a bit better. That Taylor report has torn the life out of a lot of clubs up here, some never recovered and others barely did. Well yes, that and there are just far too many 'senior' clubs to be properly supported and funded. Max we should have up here is 2 top divisions 16 teams each. But that's another matter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First48 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Did I say Edinburgh was a back water? In terms of world ,or even UK, prestige and coverage SCOTTISH FOOTBALL is certainly a back water regardless of where a Club plays! Agree with that. There is nowhere near enough profile and exposure to our league to attract a major sponsor. The SRU got ?20m for stadium sponsorship in Edinburgh Aa whereas we'd get nowhere near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Parmesan Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Did I say Edinburgh was a back water? In terms of world ,or even UK, prestige and coverage SCOTTISH FOOTBALL is certainly a back water regardless of where a Club plays! No, you just made an incorrect assumption that quality of league would be all that a potential business partner is concerned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 No, you just made an incorrect assumption that quality of league would be all that a potential business partner is concerned with. With respect I think it is you making incorrect assumptions Gene. If an Edinburgh based major corporation sells to the world, or even UK, market they want to promote their name in to these markets accordingly. Scottish football is just not that marketing vehicle due to the complete lack of prestige and multi-national coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Even in the glory years of the late 50's were Hearts playing in front of 20-30,000 week in week out.Not "week in week out". They were often playing to significantly lower crowds during that period. Averages were boosted to the mid-20,000s by 40,000 crowds for big games. No-one suggested cutting the capacity to the 16000 "week in week out" required capacity and no-one moaned about lack of atmosphere in a two thirds empty stadium. Basing capacity on average crowds is simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulleted_jambo Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Ann Budge said that before she got involved in the business she had always assumed the way forward was a new location and new stadium. That was the view of a successful business person. It was only when the strength of sentiment became clear that she swung towards favouring redevelopment of Tynecastle. Heart ruling head? Surely that's what its all about though? If there's no heart people don't care, won't go to games and will sit in watching the premiership 24/7. We'll be playing in front of 10,000(or less) in a 30,000 seater stadium in straiton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Edinburgh - European capital city, fifth largest financial centre in the continent, world heritage site. Not a back water. And it's about time that financial centre got financially involved.Long Overdue imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I honestly think we could fill a 25-30k stadium with a competitive pricing system. Reduce season ticket prices by 10-15 % but keep match day tickets about the same. Better having 26000 paying ?280 than 18000 paying ?350 . More fans paying less,better atmosphere, more merchandise sold,etc Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk The problem with that idea is that reducing season ticket prices by 20% (the actual reduction from ?350 to ?280) is unlikely to result in sales increasing by 45% (the increase, roughly, from 18k to 26k) or even the 25% that would be required to keep the same level of income. Lots of clubs have tried cutting ticket prices, but found that it hasn't ssignificantly boosted attendances. It seems that, for many people, the price is really a fairly small factor in whether they go to games or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozi Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The problem with that idea is that reducing season ticket prices by 20% (the actual reduction from ?350 to ?280) is unlikely to result in sales increasing by 45% (the increase, roughly, from 18k to 26k) or even the 25% that would be required to keep the same level of income. Lots of clubs have tried cutting ticket prices, but found that it hasn't ssignificantly boosted attendances. It seems that, for many people, the price is really a fairly small factor in whether they go to games or not. Again just quoted random figures but the way I see it is this... You pay 280 for a season ticket and make a saving as opposed to 22 quid per game, you might attract more fans by offering really competitive season ticket prices. They bring their kids,they buy merchandise. I honestly believe that the biggest obstacle to our game is that it isn't seen as value for money, turn Tynecastle into a 25000 seater stadium with lower prices, a competitive team and I believe the fans would come. Just out of curiosity where has it been trailed and failed before? Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Not "week in week out". They were often playing to significantly lower crowds during that period. Averages were boosted to the mid-20,000s by 40,000 crowds for big games. No-one suggested cutting the capacity to the 16000 "week in week out" required capacity and no-one moaned about lack of atmosphere in a two thirds empty stadium. Basing capacity on average crowds is simplistic. Indeed. However I was responding to an opinion that we should target playing in front of 20-30k week in week out. My point is that I just do not think that is possible, unless Hearts go on a run of winning league titles and cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 And it's about time that financial centre got financially involved.Long Overdue imo. If you are talking about a bit of 'support your local team' sponsorship, the type of multi-national companies investing in football stadiums are not interested in that. As per my previous comments, these big players who deal on the world stage want world wide coverage - and Hearts, or indeed Scottish football, do not offer that. I do agree that these companies could 'support the local team' by more corporate take up, but that is not the debate with regards to helping fund a stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 But but its tradition,Hearts are Gorgie,nostalgic smells and that. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Just out of curiosity where has it been trailed and failed before? Motherwell under John Boyle for one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozi Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Motherwell under John Boyle for oneShite team, shite support anyway Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This thread now reeks of pish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Tynecastle, like most stadiums, was a shit-hole before the new stands were built. Any comparisons with attendances from the 80s and earlier are worthless. There are loads of bursd and kids who attend now who would never have been along before when they had to stand for almost two hours with pish trickling past their feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This thread has Stantoned! Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If you are talking about a bit of 'support your local team' sponsorship, the type of multi-national companies investing in football stadiums are not interested in that. As per my previous comments, these big players who deal on the world stage want world wide coverage - and Hearts, or indeed Scottish football, do not offer that. I do agree that these companies could 'support the local team' by more corporate take up, but that is not the debate with regards to helping fund a stadium. No I'm talking about Solid support not a little support your local team sponsorship.Mrs Budge has brought on board the lady responsible for corporate involvement with her previous company.And seeing as we are for sure going to have a new build Main stand I would imagine she will be pursuing corporate backing to assist.Hopefully anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozi Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Let's just hope that our board of directors have more faith and vision when they make the decisions about our ground's (current or new) capacity and our ability to grow as a club Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Order Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This thread makes me more and more worried about fan ownership every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Parmesan Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This thread makes me more and more worried about fan ownership every single day. Yas! Been waiting for someone to throw this nugget in to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm not a fan of the Cornette gif but I'm tempted to give it on this one where people are expecting some major corporation to throw cash at Hearts to have a stadium on the outskirts of Edinburgh. Etihad and Emirates throw money at EPL stadia because those names are read on broadcasts to all of BBC World's territories plus NBC, available to every TV set in the US. According to BBC reports, the Emirates naming deal for Arsenal was ?100m over 15 years. Let's say for the sake of argument that Arsenal's position in English football is relatively comparable to Hearts' position in Scottish football. What was the ratio of BBC's payment to EPL vs SPFL? 64-to-1, I think? No reason that shouldn't apply here too, which means a naming rights deal would be worth maybe ?1.5m to Hearts over 15 years. Don't spend it all at once, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 There perhaps could be an announcement at next months AGM, Robbo passing on rumours about filling the corners in, other talk of an L shape stand which will include a new Roseburn end to allow the pitch to be UEFA compliant The new memorial being built between the Wheatfield and Roseburn and the museum in the old club shop points to us staying at Tynecastle, as well as the meetings Budge has apparently held with the distillery, nursery and council Still no idea where the funding will come from Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Again just quoted random figures but the way I see it is this... You pay 280 for a season ticket and make a saving as opposed to 22 quid per game, you might attract more fans by offering really competitive season ticket prices. They bring their kids,they buy merchandise. I honestly believe that the biggest obstacle to our game is that it isn't seen as value for money, turn Tynecastle into a 25000 seater stadium with lower prices, a competitive team and I believe the fans would come. Just out of curiosity where has it been trailed and failed before? Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Motherwell under John Boyle leaps immediately to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Was there not a club in Scotland who did 'pay what you can afford' tickets recently. Can't remember if it was just for a match (or two) or for season tickets. Just wondering if they saw a big increase in attendance and income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJamboR7 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Again just quoted random figures but the way I see it is this... You pay 280 for a season ticket and make a saving as opposed to 22 quid per game, you might attract more fans by offering really competitive season ticket prices. They bring their kids,they buy merchandise. I honestly believe that the biggest obstacle to our game is that it isn't seen as value for money, turn Tynecastle into a 25000 seater stadium with lower prices, a competitive team and I believe the fans would come. Just out of curiosity where has it been trailed and failed before? Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Hibs have been trying it with their kids days to give better value for money, it hasn't worked. It's not value for money that gets fans into the stadium. It's how the team are doing on the park. See hearts the last two seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Short of being about a fiver, prices really aren't an issue that effect attendances. We prove this time and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paulo Sergio Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Winning put bums on seats, not how you play nor the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hibs have been trying it with their kids days to give better value for money, it hasn't worked. It's not value for money that gets fans into the stadium. It's how the team are doing on the park. See hearts the last two seasons Agree, also a simple drop in price is a nice idea but also a huge financial gamble... If you drop season ticket prices by 20% then you need 20% more season ticket holders just to get back to the point you were before... What are we this season, about 14k season tickets?...so drop prices by 20% and you need almost 3000 more season tickets just to get back to where you were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hibs have been trying it with their kids days to give better value for money, it hasn't worked. It's not value for money that gets fans into the stadium. It's how the team are doing on the park. See hearts the last two seasons To be fair, Hibs could charge ?1 a ticket and you still wouldn't be getting value for money to watch that mob. Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 To be fair, Hibs could charge ?1 a ticket and you still wouldn't be getting value for money to watch that mob. Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Edinburgh - European capital city, fifth largest financial centre in the continent, world heritage site. Not a back water. Reginal Capital. Like York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Edinburgh - European capital city, fifth largest financial centre in the continent, world heritage site. Not a back water. This, a purpose built stadia would use Edinburgh to attract funding. ?30-40m over a number of years to get naming rights, sponsorship, etc associated with Edinburgh is pocket change. Edinburgh airport has expanded, more flights than ever, tourism, etc. It could be done. It will not happen in Gorgie for one stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Slim Stylee Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Edinburgh - world heritage site..... Not for long if they keep throwing up "The Turd @ St. James Centre." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Ninja Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Agree, also a simple drop in price is a nice idea but also a huge financial gamble... If you drop season ticket prices by 20% then you need 20% more season ticket holders just to get back to the point you were before... What are we this season, about 14k season tickets?...so drop prices by 20% and you need almost 3000 more season tickets just to get back to where you were... If you drop the price by 20%, then you need 25% increased sales. Say 10000 people buy a season ticket at ?400. ?400 x 10000 is ?4million. Next season you knock 20% off, dropping the price to ?320. To get ?4million again you need 12500 season tickets sales (320 x 12500 = ?4million). This is why dropping prices doesn't always work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Agree, also a simple drop in price is a nice idea but also a huge financial gamble... If you drop season ticket prices by 20% then you need 20% more season ticket holders just to get back to the point you were before... What are we this season, about 14k season tickets?...so drop prices by 20% and you need almost 3000 more season tickets just to get back to where you were... You would actually need 25% more season ticket holders to cover a 20% price reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 This, a purpose built stadia would use Edinburgh to attract funding. ?30-40m over a number of years to get naming rights, sponsorship, etc associated with Edinburgh is pocket change. Edinburgh airport has expanded, more flights than ever, tourism, etc. It could be done. It will not happen in Gorgie for one stand. See above. Arsenal -- the biggest club in the biggest city in the richest league in the world -- got ?100m over 15 years from Emirates. Do you really think Hearts will get ?30m for naming rights? Like I said above -- ?100k a year is probably far more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 See above. Arsenal -- the biggest club in the biggest city in the richest league in the world -- got ?100m over 15 years from Emirates. Do you really think Hearts will get ?30m for naming rights? Like I said above -- ?100k a year is probably far more likely. Even then, that seems high to me. We only recently started getting 6 figure shirt sponsorship deals, and that means a sponsor's name being in prominent position fot live crowds, in tv highlights, in media photos online and in print. How much do people think the name of a building in Sighthill is actually worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Even then, that seems high to me. We only recently started getting 6 figure shirt sponsorship deals, and that means a sponsor's name being in prominent position fot live crowds, in tv highlights, in media photos online and in print. How much do people think the name of a building in Sighthill is actually worth? Not sure but i would hope your not involved in selling it with that pitch!! Say it hosted Hearts, Edinburgh rugby and is a concert venue I'd imagine a pretty lucrative sponsor could be found. Remember we'd be looking at semi finals of cups and international games as well. Think your selling it short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Not sure but i would hope your not involved in selling it with that pitch!! Say it hosted Hearts, Edinburgh rugby and is a concert venue I'd imagine a pretty lucrative sponsor could be found. Remember we'd be looking at semi finals of cups and international games as well. Think your selling it short. ?40m needed for a new stadium. ?15m needed for an updated Tynecastle. Maybe ?20m if we build the deluxe version. That leaves ?20-25m. How much of that would that "lucrative sponsor" be willing to cover, again remembering that the biggest club stadium in London got ?6.6m/year? (Remember, London is 18 times the size of Edinburgh.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ?40m needed for a new stadium. ?15m needed for an updated Tynecastle. Maybe ?20m if we build the deluxe version. That leaves ?20-25m. How much of that would that "lucrative sponsor" be willing to cover, again remembering that the biggest club stadium in London got ?6.6m/year? (Remember, London is 18 times the size of Edinburgh.) Don't patronise me American! I'm perfectly aware we aren't getting ten million a year and we aren't in London. If it cost ?20 million to redevelop Tyniegiven it's limitations then maybe moving is a better idea than I thought. I'm not aware how these things are put together but it seems to happen the world over. I'm sure we could figure out a way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Don't patronise me American! I'm perfectly aware we aren't getting ten million a year and we aren't in London. If it cost ?20 million to redevelop Tyniegiven it's limitations then maybe moving is a better idea than I thought. I'm not aware how these things are put together but it seems to happen the world over. I'm sure we could figure out a way to do it. I'm not patronizing you. You continue to assert that a new stadium would be "lucrative" without engaging the numbers presented or offering any evidence that the "lucrative" deal would cover anything close to the additional costs of moving. If you don't know, you don't know and that's fine, but stop telling everyone else that we're ignoring some kind of possibility of a windfall about by the airport when it's just something you came up with in your head and have nothing to substantiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandylejambo Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Gorgie is no bar for tourists who are going to the game. I cant remember rolling up in Madrid and saying "I don't think I'll go to the game, this part of town is not for me" Tourist have no idea what that part of town is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And he's not praying Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Question. Where are these guesstimates of ?15-20m to redevelop Tynie coming from? That shower of rancid shite from the other side of town managed to build a new main stand that cost ?6m. I understand we want to build something a bit bigger and better but 2.5 - 3.3 times bigger and better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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