New stand

[Allowayjambo1874]

Question.

 

Where are these guesstimates of ?15-20m to redevelop Tynie coming from?

 

That shower of rancid shite from the other side of town managed to build a new main stand that cost ?6m.

 

I understand we want to build something a bit bigger and better but 2.5 - 3.3 times bigger and better?

 

Very roughly the rule of thumb people use is ?1000 per seat which actually equates to those rancid shites latest aberration which has capacity of 6400 and cost just over ?6m. If we want a 10k stand plus changing rooms, hospitality boxes etc and we need to buy the land think?10-?12m won't be far of the mark. 

[fabienleclerq]

I'm not patronizing you. You continue to assert that a new stadium would be "lucrative" without engaging the numbers presented or offering any evidence that the "lucrative" deal would cover anything close to the additional costs of moving.

 

If you don't know, you don't know and that's fine, but stop telling everyone else that we're ignoring some kind of possibility of a windfall about by the airport when it's just something you came up with in your head and have nothing to substantiate.

Christ it was a joke.

 

I am sorry I don't have exact figures to hand for a stadium to hand.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

See above. Arsenal -- the biggest club in the biggest city in the richest league in the world -- got ?100m over 15 years from Emirates. Do you really think Hearts will get ?30m for naming rights?

 

Like I said above -- ?100k a year is probably far more likely.

Arsenal got the ?100m deal a few years back. I'd bet they could earn ?250m for a 15 year deal nowadays.

[EIEIO]

Arsenal got the ?100m deal a few years back. I'd bet they could earn ?250m for a 15 year deal nowadays.

We are not Arsenal and we don't play in the super duper sky league. That's why we will be staying at Tynecastle and why it will be financed by club and fans not a multi national airline or other corporation. I am thankful for that.

 

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[Watt-Zeefuik]

Christ it was a joke.

 

I am sorry I don't have exact figures to hand for a stadium to hand.

 

Gah, sorry.  Read it at 7:30 AM here and hadn't had coffee yet, and was off to make breakfast for in-laws.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Question.

 

Where are these guesstimates of ?15-20m to redevelop Tynie coming from?

 

That shower of rancid shite from the other side of town managed to build a new main stand that cost ?6m.

 

I understand we want to build something a bit bigger and better but 2.5 - 3.3 times bigger and better?

 

I'd have to go back and find the comparables I and others found, but basically start with the ?1000k/seat figure, then because it's a main stand it has to have club offices, corporate, training rooms, changing rooms, and all of that, there's an extra ?4-5m or so.  Add in probably ?1m or so to pay NBDC to move their ethanol tanks and get most of Tynie out of the evac zone, plus some more to acquire the land behind the current main stand (I'd guess ?500k would be enough).

 

So, 6k stand, probably something like ?12-14m.  10k stand would take that up to ?16-18m.  12k stand, well, you get the idea.

[CJGJ]

In an ideal world we could redevelop Tynecastle ensuring we are there for the future and make changes so that we can let Edinburgh Rugby play there as well never mind having the space to generate income from other sources such as office accomodation or have a hotel as part of the rebuild

 

Sad to say that unless there was some serious movement of the pitch and stands that will not happen so we have to think of more modest changes and even that will be hard to achieve.

I'd like to stay but if there was a chance of new build with the chance to create those income streams which would help the club then I'd vote for a move but again that will be hard if not impossible to achieve.

 

So staying it will be and realistically fans will be funding that new stand.....I would not expect it too soon though as we (FOH) have still to purchase the club and until that has been achieved the funds we generate should be set aside to complete that deal.

 

We can though get prepared and start the planning for such a build. Pity that it could not be very soon as steel prices are at a record low and a great deal is there to be done in that regard.

 

All of the above of course be superceded by some known or unknown benefactor/investor/sponsor helping to make the changes just that bit quicker 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

In an ideal world we could redevelop Tynecastle ensuring we are there for the future and make changes so that we can let Edinburgh Rugby play there as well never mind having the space to generate income from other sources such as office accomodation or have a hotel as part of the rebuild

 

Sad to say that unless there was some serious movement of the pitch and stands that will not happen so we have to think of more modest changes and even that will be hard to achieve.

I'd like to stay but if there was a chance of new build with the chance to create those income streams which would help the club then I'd vote for a move but again that will be hard if not impossible to achieve.

 

So staying it will be and realistically fans will be funding that new stand.....I would not expect it too soon though as we (FOH) have still to purchase the club and until that has been achieved the funds we generate should be set aside to complete that deal.

 

We can though get prepared and start the planning for such a build. Pity that it could not be very soon as steel prices are at a record low and a great deal is there to be done in that regard.

 

All of the above of course be superceded by some known or unknown benefactor/investor/sponsor helping to make the changes just that bit quicker 

We could purchase the steel now whilst it is cheap and stockpile it somewhere. We could buy it from Tata Steel now that David Murray is trying I believe to buy the factory probably for a pound.

[HMFC 86]

We could purchase the steel now whilst it is cheap and stockpile it somewhere. We could buy it from Tata Steel now that David Murray is trying I believe to buy the factory probably for a pound.

Hopefully we won't get the inferior steel this time!

[Wonfiveone]

I'd have to go back and find the comparables I and others found, but basically start with the ?1000k/seat figure, then because it's a main stand it has to have club offices, corporate, training rooms, changing rooms, and all of that, there's an extra ?4-5m or so.  Add in probably ?1m or so to pay NBDC to move their ethanol tanks and get most of Tynie out of the evac zone, plus some more to acquire the land behind the current main stand (I'd guess ?500k would be enough).

 

So, 6k stand, probably something like ?12-14m.  10k stand would take that up to ?16-18m.  12k stand, well, you get the idea.

The ?1,000/ seat is an incorrect starting point. It was a last decade allowance for a single tier, basic structure with a ground floor concourse with no other floors, low EUFA category stadium. It also did not allow for design team professional fees, finance costs, land purchase, upgrading existing utility services, relocation, demolition and other costs etc. Sorry to be a party pooper but the true cost of building and fitting out a 6k stand will be closer to ?20m than ?14m, in my professional opinion.

[davemclaren]

The ?1,000/ seat is an incorrect starting point. It was a last decade allowance for a single tier, basic structure with a ground floor concourse with no other floors, low EUFA category stadium. It also did not allow for design team professional fees, finance costs, land purchase, upgrading existing utility services, relocation, demolition and other costs etc. Sorry to be a party pooper but the true cost of building and fitting out a 6k stand will be closer to ?20m than ?14m, in my professional opinion.

What profession?

[Wonfiveone]

What profession?

Chartered quantity surveyor, with the entire Ibrox main stand redevelopment, Ibrox corners, Easter Road and David Murray's Straiton feasibility studies and, more recently, the Glagow velodrome and indoor arena, amongst others, on my sports CV as project that I had a major involvement.

[davemclaren]

Chartered quantity surveyor, with the entire Ibrox main stand redevelopment, Ibrox corners, Easter Road and David Murray's Straiton feasibility studies and, more recently, the Glagow velodrome and indoor arena, amongst others, on my sports CV as project that I had a major involvement.

Cheers. ?20m is a lot of money to raise.

[Tommiwastheboss]

Chartered quantity surveyor, with the entire Ibrox main stand redevelopment, Ibrox corners, Easter Road and David Murray's Straiton feasibility studies and, more recently, the Glagow velodrome and indoor arena, amongst others, on my sports CV as project that I had a major involvement.

Would be good to see you involved In any discussions regarding redevelopments of Tynie etc with such a CV have you been in touch with the club at all?

[Wonfiveone]

Cheers. ?20m is a lot of money to raise.

Yes, but properly managed, this expenditure could be phased, borrowed and partly self financed through commercial activities.

[Wonfiveone]

Would be good to see you involved In any discussions regarding redevelopments of Tynie etc with such a CV have you been in touch with the club at all?

Being semi-retired, I previously offered to provide my professional services on the Museum feasibility study on a pro bono basis to the Club, who, for whatever reason, did not even reply to my offer.

[And he's not praying]

The ?1,000/ seat is an incorrect starting point. It was a last decade allowance for a single tier, basic structure with a ground floor concourse with no other floors, low EUFA category stadium. It also did not allow for design team professional fees, finance costs, land purchase, upgrading existing utility services, relocation, demolition and other costs etc. Sorry to be a party pooper but the true cost of building and fitting out a 6k stand will be closer to ?20m than ?14m, in my professional opinion.

Fair enough, you clearly know what you are talking about.

 

Though I'm struggling to get my head around it costing us ?20m to build something that cost Hibs ?6m. Even taking into account the extra costs we'd have compared to them, larger capacity and land purchases etc.

[Joe Hearts]

To be fair, Hibs could charge ?1 a ticket and you still wouldn't be getting value for money to watch that mob.

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Or a full house!

[Wonfiveone]

Fair enough, you clearly know what you are talking about.

 

Though I'm struggling to get my head around it costing us ?20m to build something that cost Hibs ?6m. Even taking into account the extra costs we'd have compared to them, larger capacity and land purchases etc.

The difference is due to a non like for like comparison. I would require a cost breakdown of the Hibs'costs in order to comment further.

[Gibbo]

The newest stand at Easter Road is a single tier structure tthat does not include dressing rooms or corporate or media facilities. Hibs did not have to buy any land in order to build it.

 

It was also reported at the time that they got cut price deals for both the steel and the construction contract because of the state of the building industry then.

[davemclaren]

We need to save the urinals in the bobby walker suite. Look like originals and worth preserving.

[Ray Gin]

We need to save the urinals in the bobby walker suite. Look like originals and worth preserving.

 

Yes, this is an absolute priority.

[chrisyboy7]

Not sure where the figure of 20mil is coming from. The club hasn't made any announcement yet. I do think it's going to involve the School End though...

 

 

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[Wonfiveone]

Not sure where the figure of 20mil is coming from. The club hasn't made any announcement yet. I do think it's going to involve the School End though...

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Please see my 10.26 post.

[graves2002]

The ?1,000/ seat is an incorrect starting point. It was a last decade allowance for a single tier, basic structure with a ground floor concourse with no other floors, low EUFA category stadium. It also did not allow for design team professional fees, finance costs, land purchase, upgrading existing utility services, relocation, demolition and other costs etc. Sorry to be a party pooper but the true cost of building and fitting out a 6k stand will be closer to ?20m than ?14m, in my professional opinion.

 

   Except the Wheatfield stand cost ?500 a seat.   Prices have not quadrupled in the last 20 years so you can take your professional opinion and put it somewhere painful.

 

   The H1B5 main stand would not cost ?15 Million to rebuild. Not even close!  You Sir are a pratt!

[Ray Gin]

   Except the Wheatfield stand cost ?500 a seat.   Prices have not quadrupled in the last 20 years so you can take your professional opinion and put it somewhere painful.

 

   The H1B5 main stand would not cost ?15 Million to rebuild. Not even close!  You Sir are a pratt!

 

The Wheatfield is a single tier, empty shell stand, on land we already owned.

[Mr Sifter]

Except the Wheatfield stand cost ?500 a seat. Prices have not quadrupled in the last 20 years so you can take your professional opinion and put it somewhere painful.

 

The H1B5 main stand would not cost ?15 Million to rebuild. Not even close! You Sir are a pratt!

Not in any way confrontational for the sake of it.

[chrisyboy7]

Please see my 10.26 post.

10.26 says feck all

 

 

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[JamboAl]

Was there not a club in Scotland who did 'pay what you can afford' tickets recently.

Can't remember if it was just for a match (or two) or for season tickets.

 

Just wondering if they saw a big increase in attendance and income? 

Albion Rovers tried a no fixed charge (pay what you can afford) and it was an initial success.  They then tried something similar with STs and I believe that went well too with purchasers all over the UK taking up the offer even although they had no hope/intention of attending matches.  Whether it still applies or whether it lost it's initial appeal I do not know but either way it would be far too risky a proposition for a club of Hearts standing to attempt as we need to have more solid base figures to work from.

[Wonfiveone]

10.26 says feck all

 

 

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[CollyWolly]

The difference is due to a non like for like comparison. I would require a cost breakdown of the Hibs'costs in order to comment further.

But you had a 'major involvement' as a Chartered quantity surveyor in the Hibs project.

[jamboinglasgow]

I feel this thread will go around in circles until we get more information from Ann Budge or Hearts. If only more info could be leaked/announced

[David McCaig]

I feel this thread will go around in circles until we get more information from Ann Budge or Hearts. If only more info could be leaked/announced

Yes... Just one small leak of the architects plans - is that too much to ask!!

[jamboinglasgow]

Yes... Just one small leak of the architects plans - is that too much to ask!!

 

Even just tease us like the they do with the strips. The bottom left hand corner one week, they a picture of outside from an odd angle.

 

Part of me hopes they do the big reveal around the AGM but I fear it may just be an announcement that we are looking to announce something in the future about it.

[jake]

Unfortunately we've a high number of dinosaurs in our support who will always have tradition standing in the way of ambition and common sense.

 

The correct and sensible thing to do is to move to a new stadium. Its a complete and utter no brainer. Ann Budge knows it. Craig Levein knows it. The city of Edinburgh council knows it and the vast majority of the support knows it. However Ann Budge is reluctant to be the person to break it to the rank and file 'without Tynecastle its not Hearts' mob who would greet their eyes out if this club ever took a step away from the shitehole environment and the piss poor facility that is Tynecastle Park.

 

Until that mindset changes we are stuck at Tynecastle with a severely limited stadium perpetually holding us back and in fact'unfit for purpose'

 

Shitehole environment! !!!!!

 

Part of the match day experience is going to Tynecastle with its location and smells.

It's brooding darkness on midweek games.

The walk towards it .

It needs attention .

Yes .

Yes it does .

The vast majority of hearts supporters love it.

Away supporters enjoy it.

 

Obviously you don't but to describe it as a shitehole grrrrrrrrrrr.

 

If I was in charge you would be banned.

 

For life.

 

Hey you will probably be quoted on shit. Net .

 

Shite hole your talking out yours.

[Ray Gin]

Part of the match day experience is going to Tynecastle with its location and smells.

It's brooding darkness on midweek games.

The walk towards it .

 

To be honest walking to the stadium on a dingy night and smelling a brewery has no positive impact on my match-day experience whatsoever.

[jambo-in-furness]

To be honest walking to the stadium on a dingy night and smelling a brewery has no positive impact on my match-day experience whatsoever.

I smell a Hibby

[Hackney Hearts]

To be honest walking to the stadium on a dingy night and smelling a brewery has no positive impact on my match-day experience whatsoever.

 

TBF, nights tend to be dingy, don't they? If not downright dark....

 

 

'Brooding darkness' is another thing entirely and not to be confused with dinginess.

[Ray Gin]

I smell a Hibby

 

For thinking smelling a brewery and walking to a stadium in 'brooding darkness' don't alter my enjoyment of a football match?

 

Aye, sound.

[MacDonald Jardine]

For thinking smelling a brewery and walking to a stadium in 'brooding darkness' don't alter my enjoyment of a football match?

 

Aye, sound.

Do you mean distillery?

 

 

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[theflagman]

Surely we could build a new stand costing between 8 to 10 million seating around 8000 taking the capacity to around 21,000 or there abouts,challenging anyone who says we need a run offs as its on the original site for 100plus years the same excemption as not having to wear a seat belts in morris minor.Does pittodrie even have dug outs as they always seem to be sitting on chairs.Building a stadium to hold between 30 to 40 thousand whether its in gorgie or sighthill or were ever as so suggested by some seems mad as our highest average crowd is around 29000,I now years ago bigger games against rangers an Celtic would attract 40000 but the police can't handle a full roseburn stand now.

[jake]

To be honest walking to the stadium on a dingy night and smelling a brewery has no positive impact on my match-day experience whatsoever.

OK.

Each to their own .

But to describe Tynecastle as a shitehole.

Grrrrrrrrrrr! !!!!

[Gorgie_Rules]

I have heard that Scott Gardiner has been over in the states (was possibly Texas) looking at modern stadia projects to see if there is anything we can take from them

[Cast No Shadow]

Hopefully if/when the new stand gets built, the other three stands are touched up: seats replaced, structures cleaned and repainted etc. It's badly needed.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The ?1,000/ seat is an incorrect starting point. It was a last decade allowance for a single tier, basic structure with a ground floor concourse with no other floors, low EUFA category stadium. It also did not allow for design team professional fees, finance costs, land purchase, upgrading existing utility services, relocation, demolition and other costs etc. Sorry to be a party pooper but the true cost of building and fitting out a 6k stand will be closer to ?20m than ?14m, in my professional opinion.

 

Interesting.  I respect your professional opinion, but Preston North End built their new main stand including 22 executive suites, their main club offices and changing rooms, and 5,000 seats for ?9m.  With inflation since then barely over 1% per annum, what would drive the cost so much higher for just a 6k stand?

[Poseidon]

I have heard that Scott Gardiner has been over in the states (was possibly Texas) looking at modern stadia projects to see if there is anything we can take from them

Jumbotron!

[Unknown user]

Interesting. I respect your professional opinion, but Preston North End built their new main stand including 22 executive suites, their main club offices and changing rooms, and 5,000 seats for ?9m. With inflation since then barely over 1% per annum, what would drive the cost so much higher for just a 6k stand?

There are a lot of factors that spring to mind, land purchase, asbestos removal, demolition, raw material price fluctuation. Pitch size has also been discussed in depth, it may need more work than building one stand.

 

It's guesswork (educated for some) at the moment of course, but we'll find out for sure soon enough.

 

And no matter what, it'll enrage the hibs for one reason or another, wankers

[Wonfiveone]

But you had a 'major involvement' as a Chartered quantity surveyor in the Hibs project.

You clearly do not understand what a "feasibility study" is and what information it contains.

[Wonfiveone]

Not in any way confrontational for the sake of it.

Idiotic, rather than confrontational, in my opinion.

[Wonfiveone]

 

10.26 says feck all

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Only to those that are illiterate or mentally challenged.