New stand

[Taffin]

Thanks, it takes one to know one.

I wouldn't know but I'll keep it in mind, thanks.

[Taffin]

And if we're dropping professional qualifications, I hold a masters in urban geography and am in a Ph.D. program in what is effectively planning analysis at an architecture school. So while I don't particularly have expertise in renovating football stadia, financial and process analysis are well within what I work on.

Don't lower yourself to dick swinging. You've come across knowledgeable but with humility on this thread.

[corryjambo]

Given your obsession with the irrelevant Easter Road, I am beginning to worry if you have a moustache and your employers address is Albion Road or alternatively your real name is Leeanne. Once again, you demonstrate no understanding of quantity surveying and construction processes. The Easter Road feasibility study was one of many thousand projects and commissions that I have undertaken in my forty years plus working life, so many so that like all normal intelligent human beings I do not have the intellectual capacity to remember the details of all, especially insignificant minor projects like Easter Road. Something that you clearly do not understand or intellectually does not apply to you.

In my forty years plus, I have never had my professional competence doubted, but then I have read had to work with clients with your limited intelligence. Perhaps I should arrange for the millions of pounds of professional fees I have generated for myself and my previous employers, to be reimbursed. The difference between you and I is I am more than capable of providing an accurate budget cost for any redevelopment, having done so for all these years. Your statement about "some extras underneath" says a lot about your understanding as to the scope of the project and perhaps explains your hibby estimate.

Finally, please ask someone who actually went to school to read and explain to you what I actually wrote in my original post,"Closer to ?20m rather than ?14m" does not mean ?20m. Please stick to whatever you do for a living and I will continue to live comfortably in semi retirement financed by a continuing sucessful career doing what I am good at, I.e. Quantity Surveying and Construction Cost Consultancy.

[Wonfiveone]

And if we're dropping professional qualifications, I hold a masters in urban geography and am in a Ph.D. program in what is effectively planning analysis at an architecture school.   So while I don't particularly have expertise in renovating football stadia, financial and process analysis are well within what I work on.

It goes without saying that solving the funding challenges is very much part of the holistic approach and, as an aside, I sincerely hope all goes well with your continuing studies. The way this project developed might be useful in this connection.

[Wonfiveone]

I wouldn't know but I'll keep it in mind, thanks.

Cheers, this is usually the case.

[Jambo83]

I'll just be happy if the legroom is as comfy as the Wheatfield. Some other grounds make you feel like a freak of nature for being over 6 ft tall, just..!

[jamtartan74]

I like your posts wonfiveone they are interesting, as are ugly Americans, both seem to know what u are talking about, this is why these threads are great to read. Hopefully the agm will make things more clear as to what we will be doing in the near future. I would really love to stay in gorgie, but if it's better to move for whatever the reasons then I would support it, grudgingly [emoji53].

[Wonfiveone]

I like your posts wonfiveone they are interesting, as are ugly Americans, both seem to know what u are talking about, this is why these threads are great to read. Hopefully the agm will make things more clear as to what we will be doing in the near future. I would really love to stay in gorgie, but if it's better to move for whatever the reasons then I would support it, grudgingly [emoji53].

Cheers, I am the same as you as I would prefer not to move. Tynecastle is unique and brilliant, in my opinion. I am confident that with a design team experienced in stadium design and refurbishment work then all problems with staying will be addressed, as moving will have its own set of problems, e.g. Location, much larger cost, finance, timescale etc. I, like most people on Kickback have every confidence in the board members, who will do what they consider best for the club in the long term and being a betting man, I would put my money on staying.

[chrisyboy7]

Cheers, I am the same as you as I would prefer not to move. Tynecastle is unique and brilliant, in my opinion. I am confident that with a design team experienced in stadium design and refurbishment work then all problems with staying will be addressed, as moving will have its own set of problems, e.g. Location, much larger cost, finance, timescale etc. I, like most people on Kickback have every confidence in the board members, who will do what they consider best for the club in the long term and being a betting man, I would put my money on staying.

I totally agree with you view. I just hope in the near future we don't regret it as the the club is growing and if this continues aided with success on the park crowds could increase much much more. Would rather have a large ground with prices attractive to entice people than a smaller ground packed out with prices soaring.

Supply and demand and all that.

 

But I must say the current price structure at the club is superb. Under12's ?50 fir a season ticket,.....class

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Walter Bishop]

If one of us win the euromillions ?113 million tonight that would do it!!!

[Bazzas right boot]

Maybe, Onefiveone could finance it.

 

Go on, you know you want to to.

 

Nice name for the stand as well!

[Bazzas right boot]

If one of us win the euromillions ?113 million tonight that would do it!!!

Aye, I'd go a different Way, buy celtic and destroy them, Murray / white style.

[primrose]

Given your obsession with the irrelevant Easter Road, I am beginning to worry if you have a moustache and your employers address is Albion Road or alternatively your real name is Leeanne. Once again, you demonstrate no understanding of quantity surveying and construction processes. The Easter Road feasibility study was one of many thousand projects and commissions that I have undertaken in my forty years plus working life, so many so that like all normal intelligent human beings I do not have the intellectual capacity to remember the details of all, especially insignificant minor projects like Easter Road. Something that you clearly do not understand or intellectually does not apply to you.

In my forty years plus, I have never had my professional competence doubted, but then I have read had to work with clients with your limited intelligence. Perhaps I should arrange for the millions of pounds of professional fees I have generated for myself and my previous employers, to be reimbursed. The difference between you and I is I am more than capable of providing an accurate budget cost for any redevelopment, having done so for all these years. Your statement about "some extras underneath" says a lot about your understanding as to the scope of the project and perhaps explains your hibby estimate.

Finally, please ask someone who actually went to school to read and explain to you what I actually wrote in my original post,"Closer to ?20m rather than ?14m" does not mean ?20m. Please stick to whatever you do for a living and I will continue to live comfortably in semi retirement financed by a continuing sucessful career doing what I am good at, I.e. Quantity Surveying and Construction Cost Consultancy.

 

 

Projects costs have been confirmed to me by a Director of Hearts as ?14m "With everything included".  As I have explained a few times, this is the source of the ?14m cost.

[topcat]

Projects costs have been confirmed to me by a Director of Hearts as ?14m "With everything included".  As I have explained a few times, this is the source of the ?14m cost.

 

This would suggest that one of the following is true

 

1. Wonfiveone is better at his job than the guy that Hearts have asked whose estimate is low by about 15%
2. The guy that Hearts have asked is better at his job than Wonfiveone whose estimate high by about 15%
3. Both of them are perfectly good at their jobs but the guy Hearts have hired has more information to base his estimate on leading to the difference 
4. Wonfiveone doesn't actually have any expertise in the area 
5. Primrose isn't actually "in the know"
6. Something else that I've not thought of

I'm going with option 3. It seems the most plausible and it's also the most convenient in terms of politeness all round.

[luckydug]

Maybe, Onefiveone could finance it.

 

Go on, you know you want to to.

 

Nice name for the stand as well!

 

 

Hibs have a stand called "The Famous Five" Stand.

We could call our new stand "The Famous Five one Stand".

[scott herbertson]

This would suggest that one of the following is true

 

1. Wonfiveone is better at his job than the guy that Hearts have asked whose estimate is low by about 15%
2. The guy that Hearts have asked is better at his job than Wonfiveone whose estimate high by about 15%
3. Both of them are perfectly good at their jobs but the guy Hearts have hired has more information to base his estimate on leading to the difference 
4. Wonfiveone doesn't actually have any expertise in the area 
5. Primrose isn't actually "in the know"
6. Something else that I've not thought of

I'm going with option 3. It seems the most plausible and it's also the most convenient in terms of politeness all round.

 

 

I'm not sure your percentages are right, but i'm with you on the conclusion (and the politeness).  

[scott herbertson]

Hibs have a stand called "The Famous Five" Stand.

We could call our new stand "The Famous Five one Stand".

[Hackney Hearts]

I'm not sure your percentages are right

 

I'm sure TC will show his working, if there are extra marks at stake.

[Wonfiveone]

I'm not sure your percentages are right, but i'm with you on the conclusion (and the politeness).

You are correct that I have no drawn or written brief information other than a gut feel for what I think the club would include in such a project, based on years of PQS experience including the entire Ibrox Main Stand redevelopment. There is another more likely explanation, and that is we are not comparing like for like. A project like this has to go through a lot of design stages before any PQS would stick their neck out and be so definite as to say ?14m and not a penny more, unless the club has said that is the not to exceed budget and you have to design to this figure, which is also a real possibility. I hope this helps.

[Bozi]

Hibs have a stand called "The Famous Five" Stand.

We could call our new stand "The Famous Five one Stand".

Any excuse to post me owning the "famous" 5-1 suite

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[scott herbertson]

You are correct that I have no drawn or written brief information other than a gut feel for what I think the club would include in such a project, based on years of PQS experience including the entire Ibrox Main Stand redevelopment. There is another more likely explanation, and that is we are not comparing like for like. A project like this has to go through a lot of design stages before any PQS would stick their neck out and be so definite as to say ?14m and not a penny more, unless the club has said that is the not to exceed budget and you have to design to this figure, which is also a real possibility. I hope this helps.

 

 

I was actually referring to Topcat's post implying one or other of you was 15% out (between ?14 and ?20million)

 

But as you have posted I am sure you are right that you and Primrose are citing prices for different size or scope of projects. I'm not a QS but I have seen plenty of 'estimates' of building project - virtually none of which ended up being right,, and also plenty of costings put into 'feasibility studies' which varied by up to 400% between consultants (because of different assumptions based on belief which were insufficiently detailed).

 

In summary its probably not worth two good Hearts people arguing about at this stage. There will be plenty of scope for that once we have a better idea of the size and scope of what is being proposed.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Any excuse to post me owning the "famous" 5-1 suite

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

greenginge will put a contract out on you now.

[BelgeJambo]

FOH Chairman is in construction!!!!!!

[Tommy Brown]

I get pissed at how millions can just get added so nonchalantly onto costs.

?1m is a lot of ****ing money.

Public contracts especially, just think Holyrood, Wembley, Trams, Commonwealth Pool.

Ridiculous amounts.

 

?14,000,000 is a lot of dough.

[topcat]

I get pissed at how millions can just get added so nonchalantly onto costs.

?1m is a lot of ******* money.

Public contracts especially, just think Holyrood, Wembley, Trams, Commonwealth Pool.

Ridiculous amounts.

 

?14,000,000 is a lot of dough.

Rather depends on whether we get a century of use out of it, like the old one

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wonfiveone]

Maybe, Onefiveone could finance it.

Go on, you know you want to to.

Nice name for the stand as well!

Sadly I did not win the euromillions last night, otherwise I would gladly finance it and finish Wallace Mercer's plans for the wee club !!!!!

[Wonfiveone]

FOH Chairman is in construction!!!!!!

In what capacity?

[scott herbertson]

In what capacity?

One of the founding directors of the Foundation of Hearts.  Brian?s background is in the construction industry.  He worked for an American company for 15 years, specialising in the construction of large scale semi-conductor plants over Europe and the Middle East.  He is now back in the UK with business interests in property, office leasing and financial sectors. 

[Wonfiveone]

I was actually referring to Topcat's post implying one or other of you was 15% out (between ?14 and ?20million)

 

But as you have posted I am sure you are right that you and Primrose are citing prices for different size or scope of projects. I'm not a QS but I have seen plenty of 'estimates' of building project - virtually none of which ended up being right,, and also plenty of costings put into 'feasibility studies' which varied by up to 400% between consultants (because of different assumptions based on belief which were insufficiently detailed).

 

In summary its probably not worth two good Hearts people arguing about at this stage. There will be plenty of scope for that once we have a better idea of the size and scope of what is being proposed.

My post was intended to be a response to both your and TC's post that you were responding to. You are absolutely correct in everything you have written, in addition, I have priced four all trades local authority tenders ( ?0.5 to 2m value) for a small contractors in the last six months and in each case the lowest winning tender was between 25 - 50% higher than the various council's declared anticipated tender/ budget values.

 

The sad reality is, PQS wise there are only a handful of practices with the experience and ability to carry out the new stadium cost planning accurately and correctly. I spoke to two of these last night, not only did they both confirm that they were not involved in this project, but unusually and disturbingly they did not know who has been advising our club on this matter, or whether anyone has been doing so.

[luckydug]

I get pissed at how millions can just get added so nonchalantly onto costs.

?1m is a lot of ******* money.

Public contracts especially, just think Holyrood, Wembley, Trams, Commonwealth Pool.

Ridiculous amounts.

 

?14,000,000 is a lot of dough.

 

 

You are not wrong. Estimate for the new tram line has gone from 140m to 160m to 150m back to 145m.

We certainly don't want figures getting out of hand.If we are quoted 14m then 14m it should be.

Unfettered cost increases could ruin the club imo

[Pistol1874]

Jumbotron!

Jambotron!

[Wonfiveone]

You are not wrong. Estimate for the new tram line has gone from 140m to 160m to 150m back to 145m.

We certainly don't want figures getting out of hand.If we are quoted 14m then 14m it should be.

Unfettered cost increases could ruin the club imo

Correct, hence the importance of having a realistic budget and employing A team consultants plus a main contractor experienced in stadium construction. In my experience, it is the quality of the people that determine the success of a project.

[Wonfiveone]

One of the founding directors of the Foundation of Hearts.  Brian?s background is in the construction industry.  He worked for an American company for 15 years, specialising in the construction of large scale semi-conductor plants over Europe and the Middle East.  He is now back in the UK with business interests in property, office leasing and financial sectors. [/size]

Thank you, this is both interesting and encouraging, however, I am not sure what relevance highly serviced foreign semi-contractor plants have to a stadium redevelopment.

[scott herbertson]

Thank you, this is both interesting and encouraging, however, I am not sure what relevance highly serviced foreign semi-contractor plants have to a stadium redevelopment.

 

 

I didn't say it did - was just clarifying  re your question, though clearly all large scale construction projects will have certain things in common - I don't imagine project management is much different across the various building projects for example, and aspects of M&E  sub contracts.

 

Re your point about stadium developers I guess we will find out shortly who the Club has engaged to provide estimates.

[Wonfiveone]

I didn't say it did - was just clarifying  re your question, though clearly all large scale construction projects will have certain things in common - I don't imagine project management is much different across the various building projects for example, and aspects of M&E  sub contracts.

 

Re your point about stadium developers I guess we will find out shortly who the Club has engaged to provide estimates.

Sincere thanks, nevertheless, for that information which really does sound like good news. The reason why I commented is, having worked on a all the major UK semiconductor projects, to varying degrees, (Except Fujitsu in Newton Ayecliffe) and football stadia project, notably Ibrox, it is my opinion that it takes a completely different kind of person to properly manage these two types of project, as the split between building costs to M&E services costs in football stadia can be as little as 90:10 whereas in a semiconductor plant is more like 10:90 when you include the clean room and process services costs. Just saying.

[jamboinglasgow]

It may have been mentioned already, but I wonder if we could have a new main stand similar to Brighton's. Now I know they built a whole stadium from scratch but their main stand is about 11,800. If it is right we are looking for a stand of about 10,000 then I am sure it can be adjusted. I think it can work as they also have much smaller end stands so match up.

 

[Tommy Brown]

It may have been mentioned already, but I wonder if we could have a new main stand similar to Brighton's. Now I know they built a whole stadium from scratch but their main stand is about 11,800. If it is right we are looking for a stand of about 10,000 then I am sure it can be adjusted. I think it can work as they also have much smaller end stands so match up.

 

That is bang on JiG. We should just ask Brighton to send us photocopies of the architect plans and save ourselves a fortune in professional fees.

 

Woninfive will be on next calling me an imbecile

[chrisyboy7]

That is bang on JiG. We should just ask Brighton to send us photocopies of the architect plans and save ourselves a fortune in professional fees.

 

Woninfive will be on next calling me an imbecile

We already have drawings for a new stand

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rudolf's Mate]

A couple of things. I really like the Brighton stand however when this was mentioned (might not have been in this thread) it was totally ripped by many posters as being a soulless modern stadia!

 

Seeing as others are putting their credentials forward! If we're looking to build in Lego then I'm yer man!

[Grinder]

It may have been mentioned already, but I wonder if we could have a new main stand similar to Brighton's. Now I know they built a whole stadium from scratch but their main stand is about 11,800. If it is right we are looking for a stand of about 10,000 then I am sure it can be adjusted. I think it can work as they also have much smaller end stands so match up.

 

[Wonfiveone]

We already have drawings for a new stand

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Prepared by which Architectural practice?

[ford donald]

That has to be the future of Tynecastle.

 

(enter clumshot gif here)

Hopefully the Dave Mackay stand!

[Hackney Hearts]

We already have drawings for a new stand

 

 

Recent ones?

[Allowayjambo1874]

Prepared by which Architectural practice?

I think he is referencing the 'Vlad' proposal (the one with the hotel attached)

[chrisyboy7]

Recent ones?

Why pay again for more drawings. We paid out 1.5 million for this. We just need to shelve the hotel and fill in the corners as shown.

 

Not much will have changed since then. Possible just advances in materials plus steel us at a lower price at the moment so the club needs to move fast as prices will climb year on year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unknown user]

Why pay again for more drawings. We paid out 1.5 million for this. We just need to shelve the hotel and fill in the corners as shown.

 

Not much will have changed since then. Possible just advances in materials plus steel us at a lower price at the moment so the club needs to move fast as prices will climb year on year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We're looking at constructing a multi million pound building, it has to be taken seriously and done properly.

You can't just present drawings from a few years ago and go "ignore that bit and imagine this," there's so much more to it than that.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Why pay again for more drawings. We paid out 1.5 million for this. We just need to shelve the hotel and fill in the corners as shown.

 

Not much will have changed since then. Possible just advances in materials plus steel us at a lower price at the moment so the club needs to move fast as prices will climb year on year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Accommodating for a hotel would not only result in the building being larger than needed but also cost several millions more in materials and labour. A ****ing lot more than it would to have more plans drawn up.

 

Bit shocked you fail to understand that tbh.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FarmerTweedy]

Accommodating for a hotel would not only result in the building being larger than needed but also cost several millions more in materials and labour. A ******* lot more than it would to have more plans drawn up.

 

Bit shocked you fail to understand that tbh.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he wasn't being entirely serious.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

All will become clear soon as I believe there will be announcement prior to the AGM with regards to stadium redevelopment/stadium move, I was given this information on Saturday.

[Thomaso]

All will become clear soon as I believe there will be announcement prior to the AGM with regards to stadium redevelopment/stadium move, I was given this information on Saturday.

 

SO......is it stadium redevelopment OR stadium move?????????